I'm getting owned and comboed nonstop turn3 by storm on mtgo. This reminds me a lot to the times where the deck got something banned. Worse, I think this time storm is even more stupid. The fact that it can compete even when losing so hard to 1 deck (burn) shows how stupid and retarded the deck is. No deck that autoloses to another tier1 deck can be competitive, yet storm is and is still tier1. Why? Because its win% against all the other decks is through the roof. I don't want to know what's the win% of experienced storm players on mtgo.
But guys, this deck is getting banned. And this time there's no seething song to ban. The only possible ban is grapeshot.
The deck is so horrendously overpowered that I'd bet a lot of money on a grapeshot ban and a song unban.
Betting money on wizard bans would be really stupid though and letting your butthurt anger out on this thread is also not right, there are sites like re**it for bs like that.
What deck do you play ?
Its clearly not overpowered, youre probably just playing wrong against it.
Also its not autolose vs burn.
I also dont think that they will ban grapeshot, because you need a way to make it as powerfull as it is with gifts right now. So my guess is either pif or gifts getting banned next to slow down the grapeshot kill. I could even imagine a ritual or a bear getting banned but not grapeshot, just look at the price drop of both cards pif and gifts due to reprints but we all know wotc hates storm (Is it true though?) so its possible they ban grapeshot. I will probably recover from a ban and play storm also in the future.
Let's also not forget, if they ban Grapeshot, we just convert to Empty the Warrens as the main kill con and side in something like Ignite Memories as our alt. If they ban those, we can probably bring back ye olde Dragonstorm lists, ESPECIALLY of Seething Song gets allowed back in (It will never get allowed back in)
But more than that, the deck has clear weaknesses. Counter Company can just dig up an Eidolon of Rhetoric and drag us down. Death's Shadow and 8Rack can just massacre our hand, making us extremely reliant on Past in Flames to win. Eldrazi Tron can chalice lock us out of the game on turn 2. And it's entirely feasible for the deck to churn and churn and churn and never actually draw action.
Could this deck get hit by the ban hammer at some point? Absolutely. This is a storm deck, we always worry about the deck getting banned out of the format. But is it going to happen now? I'm not so certain.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Ow yes, I forgot about Pif, then they will probably ban pif instead of grapeshot, but they won't ban gifts for sure, they don't want to hit other decks. Thing is I'm not sure if banning pif would be enough. Getting enough storm count without pif happens quite often.
How do you guys approach UWx control matchups? I've read that they're generally favorable for Storm but I've had some troubles with them and it may be because I'm new to the archetype and I'm not approaching it correctly. I'm thinking the thesis is to either jam turn 3 combos if you got it before they can set up, or sculpt a hand where you only expose a bear when you have enough resources to fight through counterspells for a natural storm or a PiF kill through counterspells/kill spells on the bears. Does this sound right?
Yes that's what they do. They wait several turns if the control player doesn't have a decent enough clock, then just combo no matter the number of removal or counterspells the poor control player has. The funniest thing is comboing off with a removal spell to the bear on the stack.
Seriously, the deck has 1 month of life left.
Yes I'm cute, I know. What I've been playing lately is a bw brew of mine with 8 discard spells main and jeskai tempo. Of course, disfavorable MU even with hate postSB. I don't wanna think about decks that don't play blue or black. And wizards doesn't like people losing after tapping out turn2 to a turn3 combo consistently. Storm is a tier1 deck in a metagame with a tier1 deck packing 4 eidolon main and another tier1 packing 4 chalice main and another tier1 deck packing 6 discard spells + big fast clocks.
Look, storm will probably get something banned from it and if you think I'm wrong it's fine. We will see in 1 month.
Since when is jeskai a brew? You only quote the part you like the most. And a brew, no matter how bad it is, as long as it has 8 discard spells and some form of clock, should have at least a 50% matchup against combo.
I understand you storm players like winning and would like to keep undeservedly winning thanks to this unfair combo deck, and I respect that. I would no doubt play it myself if I enjoyed playing solitary magic (until it got deservedly banned). But storm is warping the format too much and it's plain unfun to lose so fast (turn2 on the draw) to any deck.
Wish you too a happy october 17 and hope for you to enjoy playing other nonstorm decks...
Since when is jeskai a brew? You only take the part you like the most. And a brew, no matter how bad it is, as long as it has 8 discard spells and some form of clock, should have at least a 50% matchup against combo.
I understand you storm players like winning and would like to keep undeservedly winning thanks to this unfair combo deck, and I respect that. But storm is warping the format too much and it's plain unfun to lose so fast (tur2 on the draw) to any deck.
Wish you too a happy october 17 and hope for you to enjoy playing other nonstorm decks...
every deck has a bad match up. Perhaps yours is storm. seriously though, "constantly winning on turn 3", I know you don't know this so I'll explain. To win on turn 3 the storm player must not miss any land drops (3 lands), have 2 rituals and a manamorphose (3 rituals), gifts ungiven (1) and his reducer (1 creature). Thats a total of 8 cards. In other words his hand AND his draws must line up like the stars. For you to repeatedly meet opponents with that kind of hand is hard luck. And the fact that a single hand disruption spell or removal would instantly take that T3 kill away from the storm player indicates that you didn't draw any of your 8 discard spells OR removals.
coming here and doing infraction worthy stuff in a combination (flamebaiting, ban discussion outside the ban thread) is really silly. You could have made a few friends here, post your deck list and honestly ask us how to beat the deck. Seriously, I've seen that so many times and as fellow magic players someone would surely at least oblige to inform you what our worst nightmares are.
Or I'm being optimistic. At worst you could have read our primer, seething with rage but subduing your outburst with emotional intelligence while figuring out how our weak match ups line up and how you can beat our lines of play.
If you pride yourself on being a brewer, you should know the vast majority of brews fail. If you only have storm as a bad match up, you're doing fine. But that attitude you have is going to slow you down. Or at least get you infracted, which is really silly.
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I'm doing you a favor warning you from what's coming and you say I'm flaming... Yes, I understand you feel bad when people talk about how your pet deck needs a ban, but this is life. More on topic now: we don't have the mtgo internal data, but I'm sure wizards will look at it like they did when they banned song, and they will see storm is going off too often on turn 3. I don't know if they need the perfect hand you speak of, but I've been comboed far too often t3-t4 for that perfect hand to be that unusual, even with multiple disruption spells.
Anyways, my point starting this discussion here was for people to report their real win% instead of starting a flaming war about bans. But I guess storm players prefer to hide their high win%. I tried to discuss the fact that even with so many eidolons and chalices and discard spells in the format storm is still tier1 but I'm still waiting on commends on that too.
I wasn't asking how do you beat those decks, I was asking how is it possible that a combo deck that faces multiple maindeck hate cards can survive, let alone be tier1, in such a metagame. Could burn survive in a metagame with multiple tier1 decks like soul sisters?
Answer no storm player will admit: because the deck is busted. Latest example: dredge.
Anyways, my point starting this discussion here was for people to report their real win% instead of starting a flaming war about bans. But I guess storm players prefer to hide their high win%. I tried to discuss the fact that even with so many eidolons and chalices and discard spells in the format storm is still tier1 but I'm still waiting on commends on that too.
s
Don't be Cynical. You flame the conversation and never before try to discuss win rate or anything else.
You are playing Jeskai and lose against storm? You only lose against Storm that it's about 3,05% of the meta (Source: MTGGOLDFISH.COM)? Are you playing Competitive Legues and aren't good enough? Play better, white have the best hate cards against us. Blue have the best counterspells against us.
Maybe the problema is your deck. Jeskai_black? How good is your mana? Is the deck consistent? How is the plan? Are a mess of a deck try to fit everything and don't be coesive? I don't know and don't care. It's your problema not mine.
Storm consistently lose to Burn that are 4,67% of the meta (Source: MTGGOLDFISH.COM). But in my last 4 legues I play it once. My best finishing was 3-2 and my record against Tron/Eldrazi was 3-1, against Lantern was 1-2 and against Death's Shadow was 0-2.
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Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes Commander: Locust God
Inflammatory comments about bans will not be tolerated. Primers are constructive discussions: coming in and saying that Storm players should have a new deck lined up in a month is not constructive.
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I'm still on the 15 one-mana cantrip version with Opts and Peeks. I just hate how when Remand is dead, it's truly dead. It's definitely fantastic against the big mana decks and does give you additional graveyard padding, but the number of times I've wished Remand was another cantrip has been many. I really like the information you gain with Peek, I'm not ready to completely write it off just yet
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Modern UR Storm URB Grixis Delver W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
I'm not even sure where you are heading any longer. This is actually so much fun. So you are saying that Storm is supposed to lose because Eldrazi Tron is playing 4 Chalices, Burn is playing 4 Eidolon, and GDS is playing 6+ discard spells? Is that the logic? That beucause it can thrive in the current meta despite that, it must be clearly overpowered? Holy moly. Understanding people is normally interesting, but some logics are too flawed to be taken seriously.
Look at the meta share, number of top 32-placements and conversion rates from day 1 to 2 in all GPs and SCG Opens, number of top 16 placements in the SCG classics, number of 5-2+ or better placement in the weekly Modern Challenges (MTGO), and then tell me how well Storm is doing compared to the rest of the modern field. Now tell me the reason why it isn't being anyway near oppressive if it's clearly being overpowered.
I thought about that a lot back before they banned seething song. Storm at that time wasn't doing specially well in paper tournaments. I asked myself, why?! Such a busted deck, why aren't pros and everyone trying to win the tournament flocking to storm, since it gives you the most win%?
The answer I came with is that not many people actually like playing storm, only a small % of players likes to play solitary and play spells into spells. Also reason #2 is that storm in paper magic is a pain to play. But in mtgo oh boy, it's so much easier. Not having to count storm, not having to use tokens representing mana, not having to count anything.
But wizards back then looked at the MTGO numbers and saw a high turn3 win% coupled with probably a too high overall win%.
And now, oh man, I'd really love to be able to see the MTGO numbers of storm today. I'd like to be wrong and storm to be fine, but it's obvious, every time I play against it, that it's busted, and the win% of the deck I'm sure reflects that.
My recommendation is, if you like to play the deck (and winning above all else, I'm sure most storm players are pure spikes), enjoy it while you can, because pif is gonna poof. Infraction issued for banlist discussion outside of the designated thread. --CavalryWolfPack
Been playing storm since pyro ascension, really fun deck.
I feel that i only lose when sboarding wrong. I like to have 3 copies of the same effect so I always end up with my solution. I really like merchant scroll maindeck, even against hatebears, taxes, etc...
I have good results with the standard list. Remand with baral in play is vicious, so is the scroll. Dismember for 4 life feels so good.
Dont like either noxious revival and apostle's, I rather use 8 dudes.
Its all about redundance, the real challenge is to shuffle properly, after u just goldfish really efficiently, so I prefer having virtually 6 copies of gifts, or extra remand, or that echoing truth post board.
What about strategic planning?
Let's also not forget, if they ban Grapeshot, we just convert to Empty the Warrens as the main kill con and side in something like Ignite Memories as our alt. If they ban those, we can probably bring back ye olde Dragonstorm lists, ESPECIALLY of Seething Song gets allowed back in (It will never get allowed back in)
But more than that, the deck has clear weaknesses. Counter Company can just dig up an Eidolon of Rhetoric and drag us down. Death's Shadow and 8Rack can just massacre our hand, making us extremely reliant on Past in Flames to win. Eldrazi Tron can chalice lock us out of the game on turn 2. And it's entirely feasible for the deck to churn and churn and churn and never actually draw action.
Could this deck get hit by the ban hammer at some point? Absolutely. This is a storm deck, we always worry about the deck getting banned out of the format. But is it going to happen now? I'm not so certain.
Currently Playing:
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RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Seriously, the deck has 1 month of life left.
Look, storm will probably get something banned from it and if you think I'm wrong it's fine. We will see in 1 month.
I understand you storm players like winning and would like to keep undeservedly winning thanks to this unfair combo deck, and I respect that. I would no doubt play it myself if I enjoyed playing solitary magic (until it got deservedly banned). But storm is warping the format too much and it's plain unfun to lose so fast (turn2 on the draw) to any deck.
Wish you too a happy october 17 and hope for you to enjoy playing other nonstorm decks...
every deck has a bad match up. Perhaps yours is storm. seriously though, "constantly winning on turn 3", I know you don't know this so I'll explain. To win on turn 3 the storm player must not miss any land drops (3 lands), have 2 rituals and a manamorphose (3 rituals), gifts ungiven (1) and his reducer (1 creature). Thats a total of 8 cards. In other words his hand AND his draws must line up like the stars. For you to repeatedly meet opponents with that kind of hand is hard luck. And the fact that a single hand disruption spell or removal would instantly take that T3 kill away from the storm player indicates that you didn't draw any of your 8 discard spells OR removals.
coming here and doing infraction worthy stuff in a combination (flamebaiting, ban discussion outside the ban thread) is really silly. You could have made a few friends here, post your deck list and honestly ask us how to beat the deck. Seriously, I've seen that so many times and as fellow magic players someone would surely at least oblige to inform you what our worst nightmares are.
Or I'm being optimistic. At worst you could have read our primer, seething with rage but subduing your outburst with emotional intelligence while figuring out how our weak match ups line up and how you can beat our lines of play.
If you pride yourself on being a brewer, you should know the vast majority of brews fail. If you only have storm as a bad match up, you're doing fine. But that attitude you have is going to slow you down. Or at least get you infracted, which is really silly.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Anyways, my point starting this discussion here was for people to report their real win% instead of starting a flaming war about bans. But I guess storm players prefer to hide their high win%. I tried to discuss the fact that even with so many eidolons and chalices and discard spells in the format storm is still tier1 but I'm still waiting on commends on that too.
Answer no storm player will admit: because the deck is busted. Latest example: dredge.
s
Don't be Cynical. You flame the conversation and never before try to discuss win rate or anything else.
You are playing Jeskai and lose against storm? You only lose against Storm that it's about 3,05% of the meta (Source: MTGGOLDFISH.COM)? Are you playing Competitive Legues and aren't good enough? Play better, white have the best hate cards against us. Blue have the best counterspells against us.
Maybe the problema is your deck. Jeskai_black? How good is your mana? Is the deck consistent? How is the plan? Are a mess of a deck try to fit everything and don't be coesive? I don't know and don't care. It's your problema not mine.
Storm consistently lose to Burn that are 4,67% of the meta (Source: MTGGOLDFISH.COM). But in my last 4 legues I play it once. My best finishing was 3-2 and my record against Tron/Eldrazi was 3-1, against Lantern was 1-2 and against Death's Shadow was 0-2.
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
UR Storm
URB Grixis Delver
W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
My question, do you feel this deck needs the extra half turn?
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
I thought about that a lot back before they banned seething song. Storm at that time wasn't doing specially well in paper tournaments. I asked myself, why?! Such a busted deck, why aren't pros and everyone trying to win the tournament flocking to storm, since it gives you the most win%?
The answer I came with is that not many people actually like playing storm, only a small % of players likes to play solitary and play spells into spells. Also reason #2 is that storm in paper magic is a pain to play. But in mtgo oh boy, it's so much easier. Not having to count storm, not having to use tokens representing mana, not having to count anything.
But wizards back then looked at the MTGO numbers and saw a high turn3 win% coupled with probably a too high overall win%.
And now, oh man, I'd really love to be able to see the MTGO numbers of storm today. I'd like to be wrong and storm to be fine, but it's obvious, every time I play against it, that it's busted, and the win% of the deck I'm sure reflects that.
My recommendation is, if you like to play the deck (and winning above all else, I'm sure most storm players are pure spikes), enjoy it while you can, because pif is gonna poof.
Infraction issued for banlist discussion outside of the designated thread. --CavalryWolfPack
Been playing storm since pyro ascension, really fun deck.
I feel that i only lose when sboarding wrong. I like to have 3 copies of the same effect so I always end up with my solution. I really like merchant scroll maindeck, even against hatebears, taxes, etc...
I have good results with the standard list. Remand with baral in play is vicious, so is the scroll. Dismember for 4 life feels so good.
Dont like either noxious revival and apostle's, I rather use 8 dudes.
Its all about redundance, the real challenge is to shuffle properly, after u just goldfish really efficiently, so I prefer having virtually 6 copies of gifts, or extra remand, or that echoing truth post board.
What about strategic planning?
@Robo_Memer on Twitter, Twitch, Reddit, and YouTube
Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God