wow that was great, well written and really helpful! Thanks vileshrew.
Peer through Depths seemed pretty important for those times when you were forced to go for it without all of the pieces. Would you ever consider replacing it, or does it feel like a vital part of the engine? I'm currently musing over augur of bolas for its ability to block guys from burn or chump a DS while also digging.
I'm not sold on Augur since you can't flash it back with past in flames. I really liked peer, and I think it's correct in a meta with a lot of discard and interaction. Scroll is great as a 5th gifts, so I do like that if the meta is less interactive. I personally will continue a 2-1 split of peer/scroll.
You seem to be siding out Sleight of Hands as a first line choice. I would have thought Peers come out first (If Peer was better than Sleight, we'd be playing 4 Peers, 2 Sleights right?).
Yah I'm not sold on augur either just something I want to try. I just can't escape thinking about the sweet scenarios where he's a time walk and ends up drawing an extra card because of that, even though I try to avoid magical christmas land when evaluating cards as much as possible. Peer seems incredibly powerful in this deck so I doubt he's better. Still he blocks burn creatures very well, and vanilla beaters are such a surprisingly large portion of the meta that I want to give him a spin.
Do you have any problems employing the warrens plan against decks with sweepers? You mentioned planning on playing slowly and building to a big warrens against jeskai saheeli, a deck that could easily pack them. Is passing the turn an issue for you when they attack your graveyard and leave you on empty as the kill?
Isei, I'm not sure how correct it is but I feel that game 1, the cantrips are used to set up your combo early on and find your reducers, so you want them in your opener as a turn one play. Post sideboard, peer just digs further mid combo, and can help find your empty or rituals when you need them, while Sleight is worse mid combo. Maybe going down one is correct, but so far I've liked seeing the peers in games 2 or 3. I do feel that I went a little too light on reducers though, so my sideboard plan is still not set in stone and maybe someone else can add their two cents.
Uktabi, I should clarify. Patience is definitely key, but yes they can totally play sweepers. If I had the option to get 8 to 10 goblins early on, I probably would have totally gone for it for that reason, but in counterspell heavy match ups I need to make sure I can get there before the combo is stopped and I'm left with nothing in hand to go off. It's definitely a concern though so if I feel they are holding a sweeper I'll try to make sure I can still have game later. In this scenario, I didn't have the empty right off the bat but I really got them with blood moon and felt no pressure, and felt I had more time than usual.
And is Pyromancer's Swath a card we can revisit to dodge graveyard hate?
Use Wipe Away or Echoing Truth then untap and win? They also handle annoying things like Eidolon, Leyline, Gaddock Teeg, etc. and don't make you discard your hand.
Storm only got the one T32 at Atlanta, it currently is a tiny blip on the radar. That said it is a blip that wizards is undoubtedly following VERY closely.
I'm going to be honest, even though I only had to buy $40 worth of cards to finish this deck, I wanted until the ban list announcement before committing to anything because there are and were a lot of people clamoring for an unban of preordain. That card being unbanned I think would cause storm to be banned, likely both grapeshot and ETW both. So I'm very scared of this deck being just nuked every time a ban announcement comes up, because WotC has made it clear that we do not enjoy the game properly and they will kill the deck to force us to.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
In aether revolt they added 2 important cards for our deck. Reprinted many cards in the MM3. If they banned the storm deck it would be very unfair. It will be terrible!I dont believe that they will do so.
Unless your meta is completely devoid of sweepers you should never run more than 1 maindeck Empty the Warren's.
Eldrazi decks run Explosives.
Grixis runs Anger as does Jeskai and Scapeshift.
Jund and Abzan use Maelstrom Pulse.
Experience runs Damnation and other sweepers.
Empty is the game plan for when your game 1 goes sideways making you unable to grapeshot for the win. Or to catch them off guard. And then an additional wincon for when opponents board in grave hate and other problem cards.
It should never be hoped upon as a standard wincon.
Truth be told, you should have been tier 2 last month, but modern nexus hasnt been great about their updates. As such, with ktken stepping down, were still kinda sorta figuring out cut offs and data. You guys are either tier 1 or top tier 2.
If they have less mana (two mana floating) by putting past in flames in the graveyard you have to give them a ritual (2 mana->4 mana) and a manamorphose (4 mana->5 mana) and you're dead, so you have to put past in flames in their hand.
Going from their if you give them a ritual they can go off. So you have to give them a manamorphose and hope they don't deck any mana.
If they have less mana (one mana floating) by putting past in flames in the graveyard you have to give them a ritual (1 mana->3 mana) and a manamorphose (3 mana->4 mana) and its up to the top deck. If you put past in flames in their hand you should give them manamorphose so they are up to two mana + one card. (again its up to the top deck).
If they have no mana floating just give them the past in flames and a ritual and they should not be able to go off that turn... If you give manamorphose instead you risk a card draw into another ritual.
***clarify-> by floating mana I am also including potential mana from lands***
The scariest part of this deck is that it can go off the next turn if need by. Most piles will not give you an advantage, try to counter a past in flames or gifts if you can. Also look out for gifts ungiven end of turn on your turn, this will result in their win next turn. Kill the electromancer, this is the most detrimental thing you can do to the deck...
Hope this answers your question and then some about how to stop the deck.
From "Developing Competitive" to "Tier 1" in a few months. Don't know what to think...sure I'm happy but as everybody knows it's not a good think to have all lights on us. If they unban Preordain on 14th of June we will risk to have Past In Flames or Gifts Ungiven banned in nearly future. Let's see what will happen, anyway I'm having good results from Peer Through Depths's testing so I have definitely replaced Merchant Scroll. Don't know how Andrew Shrout (JohnnyHotSauce on Mtgo) can run just 1 Past in Flames...but results are on his side ;), Apostle's Blessing too seems a strange choice... https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/629452#online
Apostle's blessing not only protects his cost reducer from a kill spell, but also saves his team of tokens from Echoing Truth, Maelstrom Pulse or Declaration in Stone. I can see why he'd play it, but I'm not sold either.
Either way I'll be taking this to FNM tomorrow, it's gonna be 40-some players I expect so I hope to get a good feel for the deck.
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Cast the rituals you have in hand, cast PiF, cast all the rituals in your yard making blue off Manamorphose, cast Gifts again probably looking for Grapeshot, Gifts and then either rituals or PiF depending on how much mana you've got. Cast your fresh set of rituals and your new gifts for more rituals and another grapeshot (making sure that you include your second PiF somewhere in here) then cast PiF and cast two copies of grapeshot.
I appreciate that isn't incredibly clearly written, the best thing I can recommend really is goldfishing a bunch to get used to the lines and then go from there.
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Peer through Depths seemed pretty important for those times when you were forced to go for it without all of the pieces. Would you ever consider replacing it, or does it feel like a vital part of the engine? I'm currently musing over augur of bolas for its ability to block guys from burn or chump a DS while also digging.
You seem to be siding out Sleight of Hands as a first line choice. I would have thought Peers come out first (If Peer was better than Sleight, we'd be playing 4 Peers, 2 Sleights right?).
May I ask the logic behind this?
Thanks
Do you have any problems employing the warrens plan against decks with sweepers? You mentioned planning on playing slowly and building to a big warrens against jeskai saheeli, a deck that could easily pack them. Is passing the turn an issue for you when they attack your graveyard and leave you on empty as the kill?
Uktabi, I should clarify. Patience is definitely key, but yes they can totally play sweepers. If I had the option to get 8 to 10 goblins early on, I probably would have totally gone for it for that reason, but in counterspell heavy match ups I need to make sure I can get there before the combo is stopped and I'm left with nothing in hand to go off. It's definitely a concern though so if I feel they are holding a sweeper I'll try to make sure I can still have game later. In this scenario, I didn't have the empty right off the bat but I really got them with blood moon and felt no pressure, and felt I had more time than usual.
Use Wipe Away or Echoing Truth then untap and win? They also handle annoying things like Eidolon, Leyline, Gaddock Teeg, etc. and don't make you discard your hand.
I'm going to be honest, even though I only had to buy $40 worth of cards to finish this deck, I wanted until the ban list announcement before committing to anything because there are and were a lot of people clamoring for an unban of preordain. That card being unbanned I think would cause storm to be banned, likely both grapeshot and ETW both. So I'm very scared of this deck being just nuked every time a ban announcement comes up, because WotC has made it clear that we do not enjoy the game properly and they will kill the deck to force us to.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Eldrazi decks run Explosives.
Grixis runs Anger as does Jeskai and Scapeshift.
Jund and Abzan use Maelstrom Pulse.
Experience runs Damnation and other sweepers.
Empty is the game plan for when your game 1 goes sideways making you unable to grapeshot for the win. Or to catch them off guard. And then an additional wincon for when opponents board in grave hate and other problem cards.
It should never be hoped upon as a standard wincon.
what changed?
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
Here's a 4th place deck from a SCG event back in April:
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Spirebluff Canal
4 Steam Vents
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Manamorphose
3 Peer Through Depths
4 Pyretic Ritual
3 Remand
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Grapeshot
2 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dispel
1 Echoing Truth
3 Path to Exile
1 Swan Song
2 Wear
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Shattering Spree
1 Shatterstorm
- Ulka
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Truth be told, you should have been tier 2 last month, but modern nexus hasnt been great about their updates. As such, with ktken stepping down, were still kinda sorta figuring out cut offs and data. You guys are either tier 1 or top tier 2.
Well it depends on what they have on the battlefield/hand.
If they make you choose manamorphose, past in flames, pyretic ritual, and desperate ritual and they have three mana floating there is nothing you can do, they will go off 100% of the time.
If they have less mana (two mana floating) by putting past in flames in the graveyard you have to give them a ritual (2 mana->4 mana) and a manamorphose (4 mana->5 mana) and you're dead, so you have to put past in flames in their hand.
Going from their if you give them a ritual they can go off. So you have to give them a manamorphose and hope they don't deck any mana.
If they have less mana (one mana floating) by putting past in flames in the graveyard you have to give them a ritual (1 mana->3 mana) and a manamorphose (3 mana->4 mana) and its up to the top deck. If you put past in flames in their hand you should give them manamorphose so they are up to two mana + one card. (again its up to the top deck).
If they have no mana floating just give them the past in flames and a ritual and they should not be able to go off that turn... If you give manamorphose instead you risk a card draw into another ritual.
***clarify-> by floating mana I am also including potential mana from lands***
The scariest part of this deck is that it can go off the next turn if need by. Most piles will not give you an advantage, try to counter a past in flames or gifts if you can. Also look out for gifts ungiven end of turn on your turn, this will result in their win next turn. Kill the electromancer, this is the most detrimental thing you can do to the deck...
Hope this answers your question and then some about how to stop the deck.
Modern Decks:
URGifts StormRU
UBRGrixis ShadowRBU
Apostle's blessing not only protects his cost reducer from a kill spell, but also saves his team of tokens from Echoing Truth, Maelstrom Pulse or Declaration in Stone. I can see why he'd play it, but I'm not sold either.
Either way I'll be taking this to FNM tomorrow, it's gonna be 40-some players I expect so I hope to get a good feel for the deck.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I appreciate that isn't incredibly clearly written, the best thing I can recommend really is goldfishing a bunch to get used to the lines and then go from there.