Failure // Comply puts us at 3 "return target spell to owner's hand" effects, along with Remand and Unsubstantiate. Any of those spells allow you to cast Grapeshot, return Grapeshot to your hand, and cast it again, all for RUR mana.
Do you see where I'm going with this? It's kinda cool.
If you start with UURRRR mana floating and one cost reducer in play, you can cast Gifts for URR, leaving URR in your mana pool. You get (Manamorphose, Past in Flames, Desperate Ritual, Pyretic Ritual). I'm sure you are all intimately familiar with that part of the combo.
Cast Manamorphose, cast PiF, flashback Ritual, Ritual, Manamorphose, leaving you with UURRRR in your pool again, and a storm count of at least 6.
Here's the new part. With Grapeshot in hand, flashback Gifts and get (Remand, Unsubstantiate, Failure//Comply). That leaves you with RUR mana floating, and a storm count of 7.
Cast Grapeshot and Remand it (or whichever "bounce counter" they left you with), then cast Grapeshot again. The first Grapeshot does 7 damage, and the second one does 10 damage.
Pretty neat. It does depend on having Grapeshot in hand to start, or drawing it somehow. So I believe the practical ramification is that we may be able to cut some Rituals for more "bounce counters" (to protect our creatures), and/or Grapeshots to increase odds of having one in hand.
But perhaps you'll see something that I've missed? Think on it, let me know if you have any interesting possibilities to add.
Edit: Something to consider: does this change make Merchant Scroll or Peer Through Depths better? How about Thought Scour? Or perhaps another card altogether?
The thing about that is that you need grapeshot in your hand. And we can already get past in flames/remand if we want to do that. It's neat, but I don't think it's really where we want to be.
Also if we have grapeshot in hand we can just grapeshot for lets say 9 --> Past in flames --> grapeshot from graveyard. Cool synergy though, I'll probably play around with having three one of's.
All of these are known interactions in the storm deck. Also scroll was good before this as it was Gifts 5-X or Remand 4-X. Peer has better selection than our other cantrips but has worse precision and doesn't get lands or our reducers, would not recommend.
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the user formerly known as isopsycho86
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig Legacy RUBFaithless Dredge
What kind of tron? If you expect chalice definitely you want 1 shattering spree, 1 vandalblast and 1 steel sabotage. Personally I use those three for artifacts (+hurkyl's if I expect a lot of affinity) and echoing truth for any enchantments, rather than wear//tear. I also play 2-3 scrolls though.
I feel like pyroclasm might be good against burn, haven't tested it yet though.
Blood moon is definitely strong too. I'd also advise 1-2 extra empty the warrens in the board.
The thing about that is that you need grapeshot in your hand. And we can already get past in flames/remand if we want to do that. It's neat, but I don't think it's really where we want to be.
I definitely love the play of casting Grapeshot and then casting Remand on it to cast it again. Ahh yes... the value of Storm in Modern and honestly all of magic
I haven't been playing modern long, less that 2 months, but I have always loved the idea of playing this deck. I've finally built it, but I'm finding out that moving from EDH to Modern has some snags, such as deck consistency. Now, I didn't look through every page in the thread, but I have read the primer a few times through. Could someone post even a basic mulligan guide, or what hands are a snap keep and a snap ship?
I don't have that much experience playing the deck but I always look for a few things whether to mulligan
Lands: preferably 1 or 2
1 land works best when you are either on the play or have card draw such as sleight of hand or serum visions
2 land works best 99% of the time since by the time you get to turn three you should have a third land and be preparing to combo off.
3+ lands are tough because if you top deck many more you lose, with these hands if you keep them then fetch fetch fetch before you play your untapped lands (exception is spirebluff) try to scry all lands to bottom with serum visions etc etc.
Mancers: preferably 1 (0 and 2 work in some scenarios)
0 mancer hands are tricky as to take them you need to have a good amount of rituals/manamorphose and a gifts, essentially you need to be in the position where if you draw a mancer you can win.
1 mancer hands have a lot of flexibility, plus side is you got one combo piece in your hand but beware of removal as this can ruin your hand.
2 mancer hands are good when playing against a deck with a lot of removal, in these decks I usually prioritize dropping down goblin electromancer before a baral but try to thing of what types of removal your opponent has when keeping these hands.
Rituals: I like having at least one ritual and a manamorphose but not really required
Anything really goes as long as you have card draw...
Dead Cards:
Dead cards in your opening hand include grapeshot and empty the warrens, these cards essentially mean you start with a six card hand but certainly can have some advantages. As long as you only have one copy of a storm card in your hand you will probably be fine (make sure the rest of your hand is good though), and looking at this optimistically if you find a remand you win at storm count 9--> grapeshot remand grapeshot lethal
I didn't touch on specific card draw spells nor past in flames however I hope you get the point, overall you want access to two lands, a mancer, gifts, and rituals in your opening hand and if you lack anyone of these draw spells are the optimal replacements.
Edit:
My ideal T3 win hand hand (2 land, mancer, anything, gifts, manamorphose, ritual) T3 or T4 win
Instant mull (3 land, 2 serum visions, grapeshot, mancer) -- looks fine at first glance but you got no combo pieces at best you can grapeshot for like 6 if you're lucky with draws on T3
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UUUUU
Modern Decks: URGifts StormRU UBRGrixis ShadowRBU
The lack of remands in the 75 make this deck much more fragile. I get what the deck is going for, an "all-in" feeling. However I don't think the looting strategy is the right call in the current build, but I might also be wrong. I might have to putz around with this build a bit and see what this deck does without the remands.
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the user formerly known as isopsycho86
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig Legacy RUBFaithless Dredge
That's the version Finkel has been running for a few weeks now. Faithless Looting is absolutely correct in his build. I even started using it in the strict Gifts Storm. The reasoning (to Finkel) is that in the past the deck had so much redundancy that you didn't really care about the random discard from Ravings or random mill from Thought Scour. Now we're looking for specific cards and the redundancy is weaken but we also need less to combo off. I almost always have extra cards in my hand when I start the combo so going down a card isn't bad. Also, since we're looking for specific cards, Thought Scour is much worse. So in order to keep the 1 mana cantrip going, Faithless Looting is your best choice. Also being a red card draw is necessary with Ascension although it can get awkward here and there unlike Ravings.
I don't think the lack of Remand hurts. The majority of the games I've played has Remand being useless. It gets worse on the draw where I usually board all out or just go down to 1. With that said, it has been helpful in enough games that I don't mind continuing to use it. The tempo gain has been helpful and with Baral out, the extra filter is huge. It has come up way more than expected.
The big play to the Ascension version is how you have a plan that doesn't care about creature removal and you're way better against Relic. There's also way more velocity to this version thanks to the Faithless Looting.
As usual, keep testing and use what you are comfortable with. I think in the past the list was pretty much set in stone, but now, there's way more flex slots so experiment.
How effective is Finkel's list, I know that I enjoyed playing his previous ascension builds before probe was banned. What are the pros and cons of the deck in addition, you already mentioned that a lack of remand doesn't hurt the deck too much. What are your thoughts on the deck as a whole?
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Modern Decks: URGifts StormRU UBRGrixis ShadowRBU
Does anyone else feel like generally there is so much removal in modern that the 7-8 slots dedicated to reducers are wasted and slow you down? I'm trying to decide if it's just more worth it to go back to the Ascension builds, keeping gifts because even at 4 mana instant speed it's won me a ton of games against control.
Does anyone else feel like generally there is so much removal in modern that the 7-8 slots dedicated to reducers are wasted and slow you down? I'm trying to decide if it's just more worth it to go back to the Ascension builds, keeping gifts because even at 4 mana instant speed it's won me a ton of games against control.
Nope. I play around removal just fine.
I also play 1 md Dispel to grab with Scroll, which can help if you need it.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
There's definitely a lot of removal, but I don't think removing the creatures from the deck is correct. There's a lot to play around with this deck, so sometimes you just have to hold a creature back for your combo turn. I've won through removal by being patient, and then in response to the removal spell flooding my rituals and going off.
I have a little question for the more experienced Storm players. What do you think that makes this deck thrive in such a hostile meta? I'm seriously thinking of testing this deck for the upcoming season but i don't understand how almost every deck plays incidental hate against this deck and it still wins, and keeps rising in % of metagame.
Thanks in advance!
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Do you see where I'm going with this? It's kinda cool.
If you start with UURRRR mana floating and one cost reducer in play, you can cast Gifts for URR, leaving URR in your mana pool. You get (Manamorphose, Past in Flames, Desperate Ritual, Pyretic Ritual). I'm sure you are all intimately familiar with that part of the combo.
Cast Manamorphose, cast PiF, flashback Ritual, Ritual, Manamorphose, leaving you with UURRRR in your pool again, and a storm count of at least 6.
Here's the new part. With Grapeshot in hand, flashback Gifts and get (Remand, Unsubstantiate, Failure//Comply). That leaves you with RUR mana floating, and a storm count of 7.
Cast Grapeshot and Remand it (or whichever "bounce counter" they left you with), then cast Grapeshot again. The first Grapeshot does 7 damage, and the second one does 10 damage.
Pretty neat. It does depend on having Grapeshot in hand to start, or drawing it somehow. So I believe the practical ramification is that we may be able to cut some Rituals for more "bounce counters" (to protect our creatures), and/or Grapeshots to increase odds of having one in hand.
But perhaps you'll see something that I've missed? Think on it, let me know if you have any interesting possibilities to add.
Edit: Something to consider: does this change make Merchant Scroll or Peer Through Depths better? How about Thought Scour? Or perhaps another card altogether?
Modern Decks:
URGifts StormRU
UBRGrixis ShadowRBU
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig
Legacy
RUBFaithless Dredge
tomorrow I will play a top 8 vs some decks RG Valakut, Tron or Robots(same guy) and Burn, how we would do the side?
my list is 7 creatures, 8 cantrips, 2 grapeshot, 1 empty the warrens, 4 gifts, 8 rituals, 4 manamorphose, 2 PiF, 3 Bolt (to eidolon), 1 Scroll, 2 peer, 18 lands
i think some number blood moon, wear tear, remand and dont know the rest, pls help a storm brother.
thanks
Grixis Delver RBU
Abzan BGW
Legacy
Elves GB
Abzan Deathblade BGW
I feel like pyroclasm might be good against burn, haven't tested it yet though.
Blood moon is definitely strong too. I'd also advise 1-2 extra empty the warrens in the board.
I definitely love the play of casting Grapeshot and then casting Remand on it to cast it again. Ahh yes... the value of Storm in Modern and honestly all of magic
Lands: preferably 1 or 2
1 land works best when you are either on the play or have card draw such as sleight of hand or serum visions
2 land works best 99% of the time since by the time you get to turn three you should have a third land and be preparing to combo off.
3+ lands are tough because if you top deck many more you lose, with these hands if you keep them then fetch fetch fetch before you play your untapped lands (exception is spirebluff) try to scry all lands to bottom with serum visions etc etc.
Mancers: preferably 1 (0 and 2 work in some scenarios)
0 mancer hands are tricky as to take them you need to have a good amount of rituals/manamorphose and a gifts, essentially you need to be in the position where if you draw a mancer you can win.
1 mancer hands have a lot of flexibility, plus side is you got one combo piece in your hand but beware of removal as this can ruin your hand.
2 mancer hands are good when playing against a deck with a lot of removal, in these decks I usually prioritize dropping down goblin electromancer before a baral but try to thing of what types of removal your opponent has when keeping these hands.
Rituals: I like having at least one ritual and a manamorphose but not really required
Anything really goes as long as you have card draw...
Gifts Ungiven: 1 preferably
Combo piece, enough said...
Dead Cards:
Dead cards in your opening hand include grapeshot and empty the warrens, these cards essentially mean you start with a six card hand but certainly can have some advantages. As long as you only have one copy of a storm card in your hand you will probably be fine (make sure the rest of your hand is good though), and looking at this optimistically if you find a remand you win at storm count 9--> grapeshot remand grapeshot lethal
I didn't touch on specific card draw spells nor past in flames however I hope you get the point, overall you want access to two lands, a mancer, gifts, and rituals in your opening hand and if you lack anyone of these draw spells are the optimal replacements.
Edit:
My ideal T3 win hand hand (2 land, mancer, anything, gifts, manamorphose, ritual) T3 or T4 win
Instant mull (3 land, 2 serum visions, grapeshot, mancer) -- looks fine at first glance but you got no combo pieces at best you can grapeshot for like 6 if you're lucky with draws on T3
Modern Decks:
URGifts StormRU
UBRGrixis ShadowRBU
A small feedback
my side is 3 Remand, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Wipe Away, 2 Blood Moon, 1 Vandalblast, 2 Wear/Tear, 3 Sun Droplet, 2 Empty
my plan is again RG Valakut -2 Gifts, -2 Peer -3 Bolt +2 Blood Moon +2 Empty +3 Remand
againt BG Tron -2 Peer, -2 Gifs -3 Bolt +2 Blood Moon +2 Empty +3 Remand
against Burn (I lose) -2 Gifts -2 Creatures -1 Grapeshot +3 Sun Droplet +2 Wear +2 Empty
I need to play more with the deck for sure to learn the side in side out better, the deck is really good and I'm going to work on it more.
Grixis Delver RBU
Abzan BGW
Legacy
Elves GB
Abzan Deathblade BGW
Its good, but it a meta call for eidolon and guide
I back to play Remand.
Grixis Delver RBU
Abzan BGW
Legacy
Elves GB
Abzan Deathblade BGW
The lack of remands in the 75 make this deck much more fragile. I get what the deck is going for, an "all-in" feeling. However I don't think the looting strategy is the right call in the current build, but I might also be wrong. I might have to putz around with this build a bit and see what this deck does without the remands.
DCI Judge L2 - Minneapolis
Thanks to Megabug/Sgt Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Sig
Legacy
RUBFaithless Dredge
I don't think the lack of Remand hurts. The majority of the games I've played has Remand being useless. It gets worse on the draw where I usually board all out or just go down to 1. With that said, it has been helpful in enough games that I don't mind continuing to use it. The tempo gain has been helpful and with Baral out, the extra filter is huge. It has come up way more than expected.
The big play to the Ascension version is how you have a plan that doesn't care about creature removal and you're way better against Relic. There's also way more velocity to this version thanks to the Faithless Looting.
As usual, keep testing and use what you are comfortable with. I think in the past the list was pretty much set in stone, but now, there's way more flex slots so experiment.
Modern Decks:
URGifts StormRU
UBRGrixis ShadowRBU
Nope. I play around removal just fine.
I also play 1 md Dispel to grab with Scroll, which can help if you need it.
Thanks in advance!