I've gone 7-1 at my shop the past two days playing 2 Scroll and 1 extra remand in place of the Scours, along with 8 electromancers. Just having a couple Scrolls feels excellent for the versatility.
My sb is pretty similar to our original lists, only major difference is a split of Hurkyl's Recall, Shatterstorm, and Vandalblast in place of the the 3 Shatterstorm. The ability to grab Hurkyl's with a Scroll is great, and playing the 3 seperate copies gives you a good Gifts pile turn 3 against Affinity if you need to answer them. I'm not a fan of splashing for white, as long as you bring in Echoing Truth you've got a virtual 3 copies with the scrolls (which is important because you can't really draw the whole deck in this version, so having additional ways to access truth is important).
I like that list a lot. I completly forgot about snow-covered basics. I need to go pick up one. I assume some of you manabase is because of card availability.
I would run shattering spree over vandalblast though. It doesn't get countered by chalice on one which is great against RW prison or Lantern.
I dont know if SCG accidently posted this early or what, but figured you guys would be interested in it. Day 2 hasn't even been played out yet as of posting this.
I dont know if SCG accidently posted this early or what, but figured you guys would be interested in it. Day 2 hasn't even been played out yet as of posting this.
Pretty stock list with Scours, but the sideboard is a bit different. He seems really short on ways of removing permanent-based hosers, which can leave you really vulnerable (as we saw yesterday in Storm vs. Bant Eldrazi).
Just my knee-jerk opinion.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I like that list a lot. I completly forgot about snow-covered basics. I need to go pick up one. I assume some of you manabase is because of card availability.
I would run shattering spree over vandalblast though. It doesn't get countered by chalice on one which is great against RW prison or Lantern.
Thanks! Yea I would be running a 3rd Spirebluff and a 4th Tarn over two Reefs (or possibly a reef and a strand) if I had them in paper. And I haven't had the need to yet, but there are circumstances where the Snow Covered Island would be nice for Gifts (grabbing Mountain, Island, Snow Covered Island, ritual if you needed an untapped land and were at 1 life for example).
Good call on the Shattering Spree, I'm gunna move towards that
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Modern UR Storm URB Grixis Delver W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
Looks like I'm back for a brief time with a single question: how has Spirebluff Canal shifted our landbase? What have we taken out so that we can run it?
That's all I really have, I'm planning to sell of my collection and only have this deck and my Commander decks. Might still lurk here and there occasionally.
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Decks:
Modern UR Storm
Legacy BG Manaless Dredge
EDH: WUBSen Triplets Control GPolukranos Super Ramp Monstrosity RWU Narset Turns
I've done a lot of goldfishing and playtesting with this on cockatrice over the weekend and I have a question.
I might be missing something big here, but why not Swan Song in the SB, especially in place of Dispel? Same CMC, stops instants too, but can also stop either of the eidolons that screw us on the way down and a couple of other things besides...
EDIT: I'm on board with this. Assembling the pieces I need now!
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Modern: UR Storm G Stompy URSuicide Bloo
Commander: (Don't play as much as I'd like) UBPhenax, God of Deception
Dispel can be used an offensive spell. I used it against Delver to help push Pyromancer Ascension through when that deck was big. In that same situation, Swan Song would be a disaster. Giving a tempo deck a free 2/2 is just asking for death. I've made their clock faster. My spell resolved, but if I am not winning that turn I am pretty much going to lose thanks to giving my opponent a free 2/2 on top of whatever threat they already have. Dispel doesn't have that problem.
Swan Song against Burn is just as bad. You have Lightning Bolt. That's your answer to Eidolon. Leaving a blue up in the hopes you counter that particular creature when you're in a race is just asking for a L. Burn is already a tough matchup and boarding in Swan Song does more to hurt you than help. It's a race. Don't react. Push your plan forward. If they have an Eidolon on turn 2, they have it. Taking 2 and using a bolt on it is hardly the worst.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is hardly used and is usually tutored for with stuff like Chord of Calling or Collected Company when in play. Dispel does the same thing here in that it counters the way they put it in play. I wouldn't board in Dispel against CoCo decks Chord decks anyway so here it's all useless regardless. Some Death Shadow decks use the Eidolon and that's just not a good matchup with all the discard. They'll resolve it no matter what.
Swan Song is useful against other combo decks, specifically Ad Nauseaum. The 2/2 is meaningless to them. Here's Swan Song is definitely better. I can also see Swan Song being useful against decks that use RiP. Although I think using 2 Echoing Truth is just fine. When it comes to permanent base hate, I like the simple EOT blue bounce spell. It works in Vintage, Legacy, and it works in Modern. When it comes to using countermagic in storm decks, the spell has to be cheap and offensive. Swan Song is cheap but it's almost always used in a defensive matter making the 2/2 worse. Dispel is always offensive and if it has to be used defensive, it doesn't hurt. If you're not forwarding your plan, you're losing. Swan Song just does none of that.
For the record, Dispel is probably my most switched out SB card. I've won too many games against control without it for me to worry. With the Gifts build, it looks like Dispel may be here to stay, but I will never go near Swan Song. I like the card, but it's not what we want to be doing.
Dispel can be used an offensive spell. I used it against Delver to help push Pyromancer Ascension through when that deck was big. In that same situation, Swan Song would be a disaster. Giving a tempo deck a free 2/2 is just asking for death. I've made their clock faster. My spell resolved, but if I am not winning that turn I am pretty much going to lose thanks to giving my opponent a free 2/2 on top of whatever threat they already have. Dispel doesn't have that problem.
.
An excellent, cogent and well thought out response - thank you.
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Modern: UR Storm G Stompy URSuicide Bloo
Commander: (Don't play as much as I'd like) UBPhenax, God of Deception
Been doing a lot of playing lately. I haven't really been keeping track of data most of the time though, just kinda jamming out games on cockatrice. Last night though I decided to run a series, and record my results.
And the results:
Green Devotion 2/1
BW Tokens 2/0
GR Tron 2/0
Kuldotha Red 2/0
Grishoalbrand 2/0
UWR Midrange 2/0
Shockingly great results, but I have to right away admit that I played some not so great players, and had a fair bit of good luck as well. But boy, I was on fire last night and it felt sweet. Haha
So if you saw my last list, i've been playing with less Rituals, and a little more interaction. Im always trying and testing different things though, and I wanted to give the full Ritual configuration a shot. The Spell Pierces I was running were sometimes amazing, but sometimes just a brick, so I dropped those and added the Rituals. I'm still running 1 md Dispel, and a md Echoing Truth. I just like having the extra utility with Merchant Scroll, and it's only 2 slots, it's an easy fit, and doesn't really slow down the combo at all. Personally, I have really been liking this set up.
The sideboard is whatever. I don't think there's all that much to look into there. I keep changing it around because I'm mostly playing against a random Cockatrice meta, and also because i'm just not 100% on what the best set up is. I really wanna do some more testing with Madcap Experiment, but i'm concerned with what happens if you draw the Emperion? You're kinda just out of luck if you do.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
I really like your list. I've come around on Scroll. It's kinda awkward when goldfishing but when you're dealing with interaction it's very strong. It's pretty much what I've been on and I've been wrecking people. I have been quite fond of grapeshot number 2 because my metagame really likes infect and grapeshot is a great card against them since you can 2 or 3 for one them with little difficulty. I also have been liking Repeal maindeck over Echoing Truth just to be able to cycle when we draw it. It's not as efficient but game one we don't have to deal with as many hate cards. Games 2 and 3 Echoing Truth is way better though. I'm interested in your reasoning for running Sulfur Falls over Spirebluff Canal. There's good arguments for both but I've found that it can lead to a couple of slightly awkward turns but so can spirebluff. I suppose I should test it again since I haven't actually tested since the banning.
I tested madcap experiment and it was pretty bad. People leave in too much removal and drawing Emperion is terrible. Sideboard wise I think we have a lot of flexibility but in general it feels wrong to play much stuff because of gifts. I've been liking anger a lot in the sideboard. I've been running:
3x Blood Moon
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Shattering Spree
1x Shatterstorm
1x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Empty the Warrens
1x Echoing Truth
1x Dispel
Only bad matchup I've played so far with Numot's list was Death's Shadow, which probably means I'll soon be playing leyline in the board.
Surprised with the resilience of this deck to be quite honest, I've beat rest in peace and Thalia plenty of times.
How is everyone liking the white splash? Wear//Tear is a good card to have access to but I've found that I don't want to devote three slots in the sideboard to that.
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My sb is pretty similar to our original lists, only major difference is a split of Hurkyl's Recall, Shatterstorm, and Vandalblast in place of the the 3 Shatterstorm. The ability to grab Hurkyl's with a Scroll is great, and playing the 3 seperate copies gives you a good Gifts pile turn 3 against Affinity if you need to answer them. I'm not a fan of splashing for white, as long as you bring in Echoing Truth you've got a virtual 3 copies with the scrolls (which is important because you can't really draw the whole deck in this version, so having additional ways to access truth is important).
Here's what I've been running:
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Manamorphose
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Merchant Scroll
3 Remand
2 Past In Flames
2 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Shivan Reef
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
2 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Mountain
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Blood Moon
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Defense Grid
1 Dispel
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Vandalblast
1 Shatterstorm
1 Echoing Truth
UR Storm
URB Grixis Delver
W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
I would run shattering spree over vandalblast though. It doesn't get countered by chalice on one which is great against RW prison or Lantern.
Spirits
http://i.imgur.com/cO1qtnp.png
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
Pretty stock list with Scours, but the sideboard is a bit different. He seems really short on ways of removing permanent-based hosers, which can leave you really vulnerable (as we saw yesterday in Storm vs. Bant Eldrazi).
Just my knee-jerk opinion.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Thanks! Yea I would be running a 3rd Spirebluff and a 4th Tarn over two Reefs (or possibly a reef and a strand) if I had them in paper. And I haven't had the need to yet, but there are circumstances where the Snow Covered Island would be nice for Gifts (grabbing Mountain, Island, Snow Covered Island, ritual if you needed an untapped land and were at 1 life for example).
Good call on the Shattering Spree, I'm gunna move towards that
UR Storm
URB Grixis Delver
W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
That's all I really have, I'm planning to sell of my collection and only have this deck and my Commander decks. Might still lurk here and there occasionally.
Modern UR Storm
Legacy BG Manaless Dredge
EDH:
WUBSen Triplets Control
GPolukranos Super Ramp Monstrosity
RWU Narset Turns
I would like to share my experiences with the deck.
they can all be found here.
RE: the new look (gifts baral) does anyone tried it in a tournament? how was it?
thanks
http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com
Legacy: :symu::symr::symb::symg:
Legacy:
Legacy:
Modern: :symu::symr:
Modern: :symr::symw:
I've done a lot of goldfishing and playtesting with this on cockatrice over the weekend and I have a question.
I might be missing something big here, but why not Swan Song in the SB, especially in place of Dispel? Same CMC, stops instants too, but can also stop either of the eidolons that screw us on the way down and a couple of other things besides...
EDIT: I'm on board with this. Assembling the pieces I need now!
UR Storm
G Stompy
URSuicide Bloo
Commander: (Don't play as much as I'd like)
UBPhenax, God of Deception
Swan Song against Burn is just as bad. You have Lightning Bolt. That's your answer to Eidolon. Leaving a blue up in the hopes you counter that particular creature when you're in a race is just asking for a L. Burn is already a tough matchup and boarding in Swan Song does more to hurt you than help. It's a race. Don't react. Push your plan forward. If they have an Eidolon on turn 2, they have it. Taking 2 and using a bolt on it is hardly the worst.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is hardly used and is usually tutored for with stuff like Chord of Calling or Collected Company when in play. Dispel does the same thing here in that it counters the way they put it in play. I wouldn't board in Dispel against CoCo decks Chord decks anyway so here it's all useless regardless. Some Death Shadow decks use the Eidolon and that's just not a good matchup with all the discard. They'll resolve it no matter what.
Swan Song is useful against other combo decks, specifically Ad Nauseaum. The 2/2 is meaningless to them. Here's Swan Song is definitely better. I can also see Swan Song being useful against decks that use RiP. Although I think using 2 Echoing Truth is just fine. When it comes to permanent base hate, I like the simple EOT blue bounce spell. It works in Vintage, Legacy, and it works in Modern. When it comes to using countermagic in storm decks, the spell has to be cheap and offensive. Swan Song is cheap but it's almost always used in a defensive matter making the 2/2 worse. Dispel is always offensive and if it has to be used defensive, it doesn't hurt. If you're not forwarding your plan, you're losing. Swan Song just does none of that.
For the record, Dispel is probably my most switched out SB card. I've won too many games against control without it for me to worry. With the Gifts build, it looks like Dispel may be here to stay, but I will never go near Swan Song. I like the card, but it's not what we want to be doing.
An excellent, cogent and well thought out response - thank you.
UR Storm
G Stompy
URSuicide Bloo
Commander: (Don't play as much as I'd like)
UBPhenax, God of Deception
Here's the list:
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Merchant Scroll
3 Remand
1 Dispel
1 Echoing Truth
4 Manamorphose
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
4 Flooded Strand
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Mountain
===============
3 Blood Moon
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dispel
1 Pact of Negation
1 Echoing Truth
2 Empty the Warrens
And the results:
Green Devotion 2/1
BW Tokens 2/0
GR Tron 2/0
Kuldotha Red 2/0
Grishoalbrand 2/0
UWR Midrange 2/0
Shockingly great results, but I have to right away admit that I played some not so great players, and had a fair bit of good luck as well. But boy, I was on fire last night and it felt sweet. Haha
So if you saw my last list, i've been playing with less Rituals, and a little more interaction. Im always trying and testing different things though, and I wanted to give the full Ritual configuration a shot. The Spell Pierces I was running were sometimes amazing, but sometimes just a brick, so I dropped those and added the Rituals. I'm still running 1 md Dispel, and a md Echoing Truth. I just like having the extra utility with Merchant Scroll, and it's only 2 slots, it's an easy fit, and doesn't really slow down the combo at all. Personally, I have really been liking this set up.
The sideboard is whatever. I don't think there's all that much to look into there. I keep changing it around because I'm mostly playing against a random Cockatrice meta, and also because i'm just not 100% on what the best set up is. I really wanna do some more testing with Madcap Experiment, but i'm concerned with what happens if you draw the Emperion? You're kinda just out of luck if you do.
I tested madcap experiment and it was pretty bad. People leave in too much removal and drawing Emperion is terrible. Sideboard wise I think we have a lot of flexibility but in general it feels wrong to play much stuff because of gifts. I've been liking anger a lot in the sideboard. I've been running:
3x Blood Moon
3x Lightning Bolt
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Shattering Spree
1x Shatterstorm
1x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Empty the Warrens
1x Echoing Truth
1x Dispel
Surprised with the resilience of this deck to be quite honest, I've beat rest in peace and Thalia plenty of times.
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
So is Pyromancer Ascension but we won't talk about that.
UR Storm
G Stompy
URSuicide Bloo
Commander: (Don't play as much as I'd like)
UBPhenax, God of Deception
How is everyone liking the white splash? Wear//Tear is a good card to have access to but I've found that I don't want to devote three slots in the sideboard to that.