i've loved playing various takes on the post and cascade version. but it really loses to a few cards. so far in testing the various electro foretold builds, i'm seeing most of those weaknesses vanish or diminish.
no longer is stony silence or kataki a thing to fear. thalia and thorn don't mean we need 5 mana to do our thing... for 3 mana we can still electrobalance them. as foretold would be a 2 turn maneuver of 4 mana foretold, 1 mana balance off foretold if required. being able to play 0-2cmc cards tormod's helps stop surgical. relic means you can just target yourself and remove their target.
all the stuff i considered to spell doom no longer feels spooky. and you can do degenerate stuff like dump your hand t1 and balance them to almost no cards in hand, or wheel of fate and corrupt their opening grip while drawing yourself 5+ cards. gabriel nassif's list is my favorite take so far, but i think including some number of blood moons is the way to go
My current gripe and main problem with the new version of the deck, is the lack of interaction. In the 5-0 version that's constantly linked by net deckers, it runs 12 cards that just dig. It's so heavily reliant on finding the combo pieces early the opponent can do **** all since it will take time to assemble the combo and even then you're weak to every deck that runs black.
Yes we give up weaknesses to artifact hate and the mana cost restrictions but I don't think this new version is any more consistent or better than what we currently have. I could just replace the foretold with Electro and still have the same effect.
People have been running blood moons in some of their decks only difference being it's sideboard compared to mainboard.
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Hi, I've never played this archetype before but I am excited to see if Electrodominance can make it viable.
Based on what I've reading here, I would probably go for a non-cascade approach with Chalice of the Void and Borderland Posts.
I am not sure what's the correct equilibrium between lands and posts, from what I've seen on mtgtop8, seems like the total amount of both should be around 25 but I've recently seen a list here with 12 lands and 7 posts so not sure what is correct.
I've also seen versions without the posts and I like that on the surface but then I imagine those games where we have to RB to clear their creatures (vs Humans for instance) and then be stuck with 2 mana sources until we draw another one so unable to play our wincons(in my case I like PWs and not Gargadon), meanwhile they can build a board again since their creatures are cheap and grow fast.
What do you think about Leylines in the sideboard? As an enchantment we can drop for free, helps us in certain matchups while making our hand smaller for a a better RB, that's why there are 4 Leyline of Sanctity in my list (Burn being superpopular right now with Spectacle cards), on the other hand, Leyline of the Void is not as necessary IMO since we can play Anger of the Gods to deal with Hollow One, Phoenix and Dredge builds now that KCI is out of the picture.
Couple of questions.
1. Why no Greater Gargadon?
2. Chalice im not a fan of since on 0 it kills the deck, 1 doesn't stop much outside discard, 2 stops somethings but requires 4 mana to do so in a deck known for being slow, 3 kills your posts and and foretold. As a 4 of what are you trying to hate out?
3. Chandra is a no go. Her first ability runs the risk of exiling RB so what do you run her for.
4. Ral. He has no synergy with our deck or even this version. Please explain.
5. Too many lands. 9 posts and 16 lands.
6. Abrade is garbage. We have better tools. Wear // Tear is one, Nahiri, and we don't need single target removal when our main strat is constant removal.
7. Why did you move away from the tried and true Nahiri Emrakul package?
To answer your questions on lands and posts it depends on your direction. I run heavy on posts (12) and light on lands (4 basics with 7 fetches) whereas other people flip it. I do it so I can have better restore balances at the cost of consistent mana and I don't have to rely on Greater Gargadon too much whereas other people want land first then slowly repeal their lands with posts once set up and rely on more Greater Gargs.
Your wrong about Leylind Voids. We have no good gravehate cards if don't run postless lists. Dredge, Hollow One, and Phenoix could care less about board wipes since a lot of their creatures come back from the grave, Gravexrawler, Phoenix, Bloodghast, etc. I run Ravenous Trap as a 3x to deal with this difficult matchup.
Leylines of Sanctity are decent. Not a fan of dead cards late game. Sure you need 4 for consistency but we use them for Burn and discard. Imo not worth spending 200$ for 2 matchups where, if you play smart and keep flexible hands, you're fine.
It looks to me you just combined several peoples deck using only the best card. You should focus on one game plan. You're going for this odd high post, high land, high tech card build, restore balance without cascade and it doesn't come together. You should focus on 1-2 aspects. Whether it be posts and restore balance, postless with control, control with tech.
I'd love to try brewing an electrodominance version but I can't really wrap my head around it. Could anyone who's building it answer a couple questions?
How exactly does it win? Are you just reliant on the occasional Gargadon kill but mostly trying to get Jace or another planeswalker on an empty board?
What are its favorable matchups? I feel like it is just a worse version of UW control that auto loses to anything besides really aggro creature heavy decks. If you can't easily destroy any lands, it feels like an instant loss to tron, UW control, most combo decks, anything with recursive threats like phoenix or hollow one, really a large chunk of the format.
Does it actually feel like you're doing anything? I've seen a couple lists and it mostly looks like you dig really hard for restore balance and electrodominance but unless you have a gargadon to sacrifice your lands it doesn't seem like enough to win a game for you.
Overall it seems super cool, you get to play a bunch of really powerful cards like Ancestral Vision and Restore Balance but it doesn't actually seem like the deck really does anything to win. I'd love to help brew a deck and I'll definitely test it out but I'm not sure what the starting point is. I've thought of trying to do a mono R version that plays a bit like burn but uses the restore balance as a boardwipe after you dump your hand. If anyone has had any success, please let me know!
1. Why no Greater Gargadon?
2. Chalice im not a fan of since on 0 it kills the deck, 1 doesn't stop much outside discard, 2 stops somethings but requires 4 mana to do so in a deck known for being slow, 3 kills your posts and and foretold. As a 4 of what are you trying to hate out?
3. Chandra is a no go. Her first ability runs the risk of exiling RB so what do you run her for.
4. Ral. He has no synergy with our deck or even this version. Please explain.
5. Too many lands. 9 posts and 16 lands.
6. Abrade is garbage. We have better tools. Wear // Tear is one, Nahiri, and we don't need single target removal when our main strat is constant removal.
7. Why did you move away from the tried and true Nahiri Emrakul package?
To answer your questions on lands and posts it depends on your direction. I run heavy on posts (12) and light on lands (4 basics with 7 fetches) whereas other people flip it. I do it so I can have better restore balances at the cost of consistent mana and I don't have to rely on Greater Gargadon too much whereas other people want land first then slowly repeal their lands with posts once set up and rely on more Greater Gargs.
Your wrong about Leylind Voids. We have no good gravehate cards if don't run postless lists. Dredge, Hollow One, and Phenoix could care less about board wipes since a lot of their creatures come back from the grave, Gravexrawler, Phoenix, Bloodghast, etc. I run Ravenous Trap as a 3x to deal with this difficult matchup.
Leylines of Sanctity are decent. Not a fan of dead cards late game. Sure you need 4 for consistency but we use them for Burn
and discard. Imo not worth spending 200$ for 2 matchups where, if you play smart and keep flexible hands, you're fine.
It looks to me you just combined several peoples deck using only the best card. You should focus on one game plan. You're going for this odd high post, high land, high tech card build, restore balance without cascade and it doesn't come together. You should focus on 1-2 aspects. Whether it be posts and restore balance, postless with control, control with tech.
1 No Gargadon because I didn't want a wincon that dies to Path to Exile and I wanted to have planeswalkers as my wincons, I see that he might be still be useful enough as an enabler to make better RBs so yeah, I will probably test with them
2 Chalice was meant to be cast for X=1, having the opportunity to cast it on T1 with Simian Spirit Guide. It stays after RB and it's really good vs Grixis Death Shadow, a very popular deck right now so I wanted to try it out
3 The idea was to use her as a win-con after casting RB, if we need her to stabilize, adding RR to cast something like Electrodominance or dealing 4 damage to a creature should be ok and I wouldn't mind exiling other RBs after I am controlling the board. Maybe I was biased on how good she is on prison decks but she didn't dissapoint me on my games so I think I will stick with her
4 It was a test, as I said before, I am new to the archetype and wanted to test it so I had to try him and yes he is not good here
5 Yeah, I got flooded some games, having 29 mana sources is definitely too many (16 lands + 9 posts + 4 SSG)
6 The idea was to have a 2 mana damage removal spell to dodge Chalice that sometimes could be used to deal with an annoying artifact, it wasn't terrible but you are probably right that targeted removal is not needed
7 As I said before, I am new in the archetype so I had no reference for lists with Electrodominance since it's a new card so I based my deckbuilding on some Cascade versions I had seen, I didn't know Nahiri + Emrakul was the established way of constructing the deck
Regarding your Leyline of the Void paragraph, do you realize that Anger of the Gods exiles creatures? I meant that GY hate is mostly to deal with creatures now that KCI is gone so having a wrath that exiles them could be enough in that regard. I also like Anger since you don't need it ready at the exact moment they bring their stuff back from graveyard but you can just topdeck it and clean the board.
Regarding Leyline of Sanctity, I want to discuss if it's good without entering budget considerations, I can get behind the "dead card in late game" argument but if you start with it in play Burn becomes a much easier deck to deal with so I thought they were good enough
Yeah, my list needs some changes but I was definitely not picking the best cards on every list to build mine, I mean you just said Abrade is garbage and I am also playing Supreme Will so I think it's easy to see that it's not what I did
I think you are right that my plan is not focused enough and having almost half of the deck be mana sources didn't help, will try to tweak it and see how it goes
Didn't mean to be too harsh on you. But I'll keep an Eye on your posts to help if you keep updates on match ups.
Regarding a few points.
1.GG isn't meant too much these days as a beater but as a threat. We can flood our board with lands and with him suspended above 5+ our opponents have to be wary of when we RB and when we do your opponent most likely wont have the mana to deal with a 9/7 w/ haste. So he's good in a land heavier base Since without posts or even light amount of them you can't reliably set them back on lands vs the post version which can bounce lands and leave your opponent with nothing.
2. To be honest, using 1 card to counter 1 card from an opponents deck doesn't appeal to me. Yes it counters their discard cards, but G2 they can just remove them.
Ya, Nahiri is our finisher since she provides removal, card draw, and pulls Emrakul from the deck. Don't have to run them, but it's a reliable combo proved to help us regardless of thr deck version.
If you run Eletro don't run Supreme Will. Since most Electro decks phase out cascade for As Foretold and Electro they run better and cheaper counterspells like Remand, Mana Leak, so on
Sanctity is odd. Burn runs Destructive Reverly among others that tear through enchantment and i found in playtesting replaying a 4 mana spells is hard against them after they've blown it up. I run Monastery Siege as a sudo version that doubles as draw.
I'm all about options in my RB deck because i run posts and cascade.
Well, I agree that Deprive is just a worse counter if you compare it with any of those cards you pointed out but keep in mind that this version (without borderposts) do not have ways to reduce your land count besides Gargadon, Deprive would be the second one to do that.
I actually didn't test the electro version of the deck (I am just theorizing) but deprive could be a thing, at least for consideration.
So, I don't play this deck, nor do I ever want to and my expertise is in the post version. But I'll try to give you some insight.
How exactly does it win?
Same way the borderpost version does, through attrition via Restore Balance
What are its favorable matchups?
The ones that require more flexible cards than the post version. Control, Combo, midrange.
I feel like it is just a worse version of UW control
Not really, imagine if UW control could run 4 additional copies of board wipes, had space for cards like As Foretold, and can could still fit some of the control cards it wants.
it feels like an instant loss to tron, UW control, most combo decks, anything with recursive threats like phoenix or hollow one, really a large chunk of the format
You'd think so, but with being able to play cards like Remand, Lightning Bolt, Tormod's Crypt, and so forth cards that the post version wishes it could run. Because of this the Electro version has better answers and quicker answers to a lot of meta threats/cards such as Meddling Mage, dredge, and thus doesn't require us to combo out super quick and humans can't bunch as much if we can remove them faster.
Does it actually feel like you're doing anything? I've seen a couple lists and it mostly looks like you dig really hard for restore balance and electrodominance but unless you have a gargadon to sacrifice your lands it doesn't seem like enough to win a game for you.
Yes and no. You're correct on the part that you dig, part but same could go for modern UW decks that dig a lot for answers, being able to thin your deck and find your combo pieces while denying your opponent their resources is an amazing tool. With the lands, yes it's nice to have GG out, but As Foretold is only 3 mana, Electro is 2 mana, and most of the cards in the deck are 1-2 mana overall. SO you don't need to flood the table with land drops every turn.
Overall it seems super cool, you get to play a bunch of really powerful cards like Ancestral Vision and Restore Balance but it doesn't actually seem like the deck really does anything to win.
Not sure what you mean here by "Doesn't actually seem like the deck really does anything to win" the deck plays just like the deck of old. Restore Balance enough times to where either your opponent scoops since they ran out of stuff or you gain board control since you've set them back a bunch.
I'd love to help brew a deck and I'll definitely test it out but I'm not sure what the starting point is. I've thought of trying to do a mono R version that plays a bit like burn but uses the restore balance as a boardwipe after you dump your hand.
If you want to make a mono R deck do so! Submit it here for feedback and keep testing it. We're a fringe deck so because of that we're not bound to set card lists. Long as we include Restore Balance how we go about it is anyones game. From cascade, as foretold, to even just suspending it.
Hope this helps!
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I'm not sure if anyone said it already, but Shawn McLaren was the gentleman who got the 5-0 and started all the hype along with Massif. Shawn streams regularly and posted his videos with electrodominance balance, and I highly recommend watching them. I like to believe I am relatively unbiased as I am just looking for the best balance deck, and I may not be sold but definitely like the idea. Imagine a world were splinter twin does say "I win" but said "you probably can't win anymore, or at least have to try very hard". He plays as though this is a multi card combo protected by very specific threats that are found via the card selection. It may not be the best list, and he is very open about that possibility as he changes it almost every stream he does. So far, he has achieved multiple 4-1 and a 5-0 with this deck and only slight changes. I also post on the thread of electrodominance and would love to discuss the potential of the variation to the arch type. I personally am looking into a third color light splash but it's unclear.
Hi, sorry if I missed the discussion about it, but what about Antiquities War ? I'm thinking about running 4 Nahiri + Emrakul and 1 Antiquities War as finishers. It is also possible to pick borderpost during the first 2 steps which seems very nice to me.
4 mana is too expensive maybe ? Have you already tested it ?
To me personally I'm not a fan. Its a slow search effect that essentially turns into March of the Machines and we moved away from that card due to the vulnerabilities we already have. My opinion being, why send our mana base into action when we win with Nahiri, Emrakul, Restore Balance and so forth
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Exploring the cascadeless versions with Electrodominance seemed pleasant to me as well.
First I don't really like the greater gargadon win condition. It has often seemed unreliable.
Also with the new Electrodominance tech you are allowed to be faster and more explosive. For instance, Turn-1 borderpost into turn 2 SpiritGuide + Electrodominance + Restore balance on their draw step is almost unbeatable.
This is the list I came up with after a few iterations.
This is a spell-based version of the "Balance As Foretold" archetype
Arclight Phoenix provides a real clock
The game plan is almost always to cast a turn 2-4 Restore Balance
I tried to add Spoil of the Vaults to improve consistency and fight disruption. Proved to be very effective, despite a 15% chance of free-loss. You only cast this in 'emergency case', often to find Restore Balance, and when you find it, you'll win the game roughly 80% of the time
after casting Restore Balance, the opponent should have about 1 land and 1 card in hand. Play patiently, wait for 2 useless cards before playing a 'draw 2, discard 2' effect.
My thought on this version:
This version is powerful. In a decent percentage of games you just lock your opponent before he can play anything substancial
Card-filtering helps with consistency
Game plan is probably a bit too ambitious: the "balance" between basic lands, borderposts and spells is hard to find
Still bad matchup against humans and BGx, okay matchup versus control and spirits, good vs big mana and creature-based decks including Izzet Phoenix (I believe)
So the problem I have with this verison is few things.
Spoils of the Vault seem really bad. We already lose a lot of life due to this deck and this version being passive. That and we have to exile all the cards so we could just lose the game there if we have a poorly stacked deck.
Not a big fan of pheonix. I feel we have to burn through our deck if we want to revive him, and even then, Restore balance could just send him away again.
Chandra, not particual about this version, I feel she's too slow, and with her +1 exiling spells we could want, as well as she may be just a 4 mana deal 4 is pretty meh, I feel you could cut the Restore balances out and the deck would still play out the same way it does already, control and dig and she'd be just the finisher.
You also run only 2 basic lands, which means if you want to run posts you have to fetch for them first thing otherwise they're useless. Running 3 non-basic lands means at most your opponent keeps 3 lands which doesn't slow down Humans, Boggles, Burn, Affinity, and even Green Scales. Since they either run super cheap stuff or produce their own mana via Opals, Mana Dorks ( which is where the Phenoixs can be harmful more than benficial), and so on. Burn still beats both versions with Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Not a fan of relying on just As Foretold since it's super slow and people see it coming from far away, I know most of your spells are between 1-2 mana,but you can play it T2 (T1 Island, T2 SSGx2) at earliest, then have to wait 2 more turns to cast stuff for free. That's 4 turns just for free spells once per turn, or T2 if you have RB in hand, and even then you're devoting so much resources to this card which can be easliy stopped.
Lastly, I think you should drop the posts. Or lean more into them. This odd split of mana to post ratio carries the deck into odd directions. You have the slow ticking Foretolds so Posts aren't need, yet you run so few actual mana you need posts. You run such an odd amount of posts that their overal consistency is weird.
That's not to say your deck can't operate, but at face vaule that's what I see. And this is coming from a man who strongly believes that the cascade version is the best and is resistent to change (I'll die on this hill)
Thanks for the detailed opinion, I think you're right about these points except that you compare this version to the classic Restore balance that is indeed slow. This version is faster, as you'll mulligan more aggressively and almost always cast Restore balance on t2/t3. Cast Spoil the Vault as soon as you have to, and die 18% of the time, fine Though 82% of the time, you'll manage to "balance" the game a bit.
I checked the lastest ElectroDominance versions and the Cascade versions, I'm not convinced. How can you possibly defeat Spirits and Humans with their t2 / t3 disruption? Seems these decks can't deal with a single Thalia / Musoleum Wanderer / Meddling Mage...
checked the lastest ElectroDominance versions and the Cascade versions, I'm not convinced. How can you possibly defeat Spirits and Humans with their t2 / t3 disruption? Seems these decks can't deal with a single Thalia / Musoleum Wanderer / Meddling Mage...
We can with Anger of the Gods, Detention Sphere, Supreme Will, Imprison in the Moon with the classic version and Electro version can run Bolts, Remand, Izzet Charm, and so forth. Just a matter of having the pieces when you need them.
Cast Spoil the Vault as soon as you have to, and die 18% of the time, fine Though 82% of the time, you'll manage to "balance" the game a bit.
Ya but exiling say 3-4 cards that could help all for 1 balance where both decks have easier methods of retrieve if you desperately need that 1 balance.
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Matchups:
BW Eldrazi taxes 2-1
Goblin 2-1
Bg rock 2-0
Bg rock 2-1
I think that worst matchups are Burn, Goblin, Lanternless.
Thought that bg rock was an hard one, but now it's 50/50 for me. Don't be afraid to suspend a Wheel and you fix early discards problem. The real threat there are liliana of the veil and last hope. They put the clock up on their favor, and you must resolve a balance followed by a fast gargadon to race their ultimatum (especially zombies from last hope emblem).
I'm not totally sold on Baubles. They feed gargadon and can be useful to low the number of cards in hand. Can let you redraw after a balance, but those are the only meh cards imho. Sometimes you need to gain time instead of rush for the combo pieces.
I'll try this change:
-3 Mishra's Bauble
+2 Lightning Bolt
+1 Engineered Explosives
Explosives can be fetched with tolaria west, and can be cast for 3 with the current list
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no longer is stony silence or kataki a thing to fear. thalia and thorn don't mean we need 5 mana to do our thing... for 3 mana we can still electrobalance them. as foretold would be a 2 turn maneuver of 4 mana foretold, 1 mana balance off foretold if required. being able to play 0-2cmc cards tormod's helps stop surgical. relic means you can just target yourself and remove their target.
all the stuff i considered to spell doom no longer feels spooky. and you can do degenerate stuff like dump your hand t1 and balance them to almost no cards in hand, or wheel of fate and corrupt their opening grip while drawing yourself 5+ cards. gabriel nassif's list is my favorite take so far, but i think including some number of blood moons is the way to go
Yes we give up weaknesses to artifact hate and the mana cost restrictions but I don't think this new version is any more consistent or better than what we currently have. I could just replace the foretold with Electro and still have the same effect.
People have been running blood moons in some of their decks only difference being it's sideboard compared to mainboard.
Based on what I've reading here, I would probably go for a non-cascade approach with Chalice of the Void and Borderland Posts.
I am not sure what's the correct equilibrium between lands and posts, from what I've seen on mtgtop8, seems like the total amount of both should be around 25 but I've recently seen a list here with 12 lands and 7 posts so not sure what is correct.
I've also seen versions without the posts and I like that on the surface but then I imagine those games where we have to RB to clear their creatures (vs Humans for instance) and then be stuck with 2 mana sources until we draw another one so unable to play our wincons(in my case I like PWs and not Gargadon), meanwhile they can build a board again since their creatures are cheap and grow fast.
What do you think about Leylines in the sideboard? As an enchantment we can drop for free, helps us in certain matchups while making our hand smaller for a a better RB, that's why there are 4 Leyline of Sanctity in my list (Burn being superpopular right now with Spectacle cards), on the other hand, Leyline of the Void is not as necessary IMO since we can play Anger of the Gods to deal with Hollow One, Phoenix and Dredge builds now that KCI is out of the picture.
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Spells (40)
4 Restore Balance
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Electrodominance
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Abrade
2 Supreme Will
4 As Foretold
2 Blood Moon
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Ral, Izzet Viceroy
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
3 Firewild Borderpost
2 Veinfire Borderpost
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Steam Vents
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Tolaria West
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Flooded Strand
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Ricochet Trap
2 By Force
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Negate
1 Tormod's Crypt
1. Why no Greater Gargadon?
2. Chalice im not a fan of since on 0 it kills the deck, 1 doesn't stop much outside discard, 2 stops somethings but requires 4 mana to do so in a deck known for being slow, 3 kills your posts and and foretold. As a 4 of what are you trying to hate out?
3. Chandra is a no go. Her first ability runs the risk of exiling RB so what do you run her for.
4. Ral. He has no synergy with our deck or even this version. Please explain.
5. Too many lands. 9 posts and 16 lands.
6. Abrade is garbage. We have better tools. Wear // Tear is one, Nahiri, and we don't need single target removal when our main strat is constant removal.
7. Why did you move away from the tried and true Nahiri Emrakul package?
To answer your questions on lands and posts it depends on your direction. I run heavy on posts (12) and light on lands (4 basics with 7 fetches) whereas other people flip it. I do it so I can have better restore balances at the cost of consistent mana and I don't have to rely on Greater Gargadon too much whereas other people want land first then slowly repeal their lands with posts once set up and rely on more Greater Gargs.
Your wrong about Leylind Voids. We have no good gravehate cards if don't run postless lists. Dredge, Hollow One, and Phenoix could care less about board wipes since a lot of their creatures come back from the grave, Gravexrawler, Phoenix, Bloodghast, etc. I run Ravenous Trap as a 3x to deal with this difficult matchup.
Leylines of Sanctity are decent. Not a fan of dead cards late game. Sure you need 4 for consistency but we use them for Burn and discard. Imo not worth spending 200$ for 2 matchups where, if you play smart and keep flexible hands, you're fine.
It looks to me you just combined several peoples deck using only the best card. You should focus on one game plan. You're going for this odd high post, high land, high tech card build, restore balance without cascade and it doesn't come together. You should focus on 1-2 aspects. Whether it be posts and restore balance, postless with control, control with tech.
How exactly does it win? Are you just reliant on the occasional Gargadon kill but mostly trying to get Jace or another planeswalker on an empty board?
What are its favorable matchups? I feel like it is just a worse version of UW control that auto loses to anything besides really aggro creature heavy decks. If you can't easily destroy any lands, it feels like an instant loss to tron, UW control, most combo decks, anything with recursive threats like phoenix or hollow one, really a large chunk of the format.
Does it actually feel like you're doing anything? I've seen a couple lists and it mostly looks like you dig really hard for restore balance and electrodominance but unless you have a gargadon to sacrifice your lands it doesn't seem like enough to win a game for you.
Overall it seems super cool, you get to play a bunch of really powerful cards like Ancestral Vision and Restore Balance but it doesn't actually seem like the deck really does anything to win. I'd love to help brew a deck and I'll definitely test it out but I'm not sure what the starting point is. I've thought of trying to do a mono R version that plays a bit like burn but uses the restore balance as a boardwipe after you dump your hand. If anyone has had any success, please let me know!
2 Chalice was meant to be cast for X=1, having the opportunity to cast it on T1 with Simian Spirit Guide. It stays after RB and it's really good vs Grixis Death Shadow, a very popular deck right now so I wanted to try it out
3 The idea was to use her as a win-con after casting RB, if we need her to stabilize, adding RR to cast something like Electrodominance or dealing 4 damage to a creature should be ok and I wouldn't mind exiling other RBs after I am controlling the board. Maybe I was biased on how good she is on prison decks but she didn't dissapoint me on my games so I think I will stick with her
4 It was a test, as I said before, I am new to the archetype and wanted to test it so I had to try him and yes he is not good here
5 Yeah, I got flooded some games, having 29 mana sources is definitely too many (16 lands + 9 posts + 4 SSG)
6 The idea was to have a 2 mana damage removal spell to dodge Chalice that sometimes could be used to deal with an annoying artifact, it wasn't terrible but you are probably right that targeted removal is not needed
7 As I said before, I am new in the archetype so I had no reference for lists with Electrodominance since it's a new card so I based my deckbuilding on some Cascade versions I had seen, I didn't know Nahiri + Emrakul was the established way of constructing the deck
Regarding your Leyline of the Void paragraph, do you realize that Anger of the Gods exiles creatures? I meant that GY hate is mostly to deal with creatures now that KCI is gone so having a wrath that exiles them could be enough in that regard. I also like Anger since you don't need it ready at the exact moment they bring their stuff back from graveyard but you can just topdeck it and clean the board.
Regarding Leyline of Sanctity, I want to discuss if it's good without entering budget considerations, I can get behind the "dead card in late game" argument but if you start with it in play Burn becomes a much easier deck to deal with so I thought they were good enough
Yeah, my list needs some changes but I was definitely not picking the best cards on every list to build mine, I mean you just said Abrade is garbage and I am also playing Supreme Will so I think it's easy to see that it's not what I did
I think you are right that my plan is not focused enough and having almost half of the deck be mana sources didn't help, will try to tweak it and see how it goes
Regarding a few points.
1.GG isn't meant too much these days as a beater but as a threat. We can flood our board with lands and with him suspended above 5+ our opponents have to be wary of when we RB and when we do your opponent most likely wont have the mana to deal with a 9/7 w/ haste. So he's good in a land heavier base Since without posts or even light amount of them you can't reliably set them back on lands vs the post version which can bounce lands and leave your opponent with nothing.
2. To be honest, using 1 card to counter 1 card from an opponents deck doesn't appeal to me. Yes it counters their discard cards, but G2 they can just remove them.
Ya, Nahiri is our finisher since she provides removal, card draw, and pulls Emrakul from the deck. Don't have to run them, but it's a reliable combo proved to help us regardless of thr deck version.
If you run Eletro don't run Supreme Will. Since most Electro decks phase out cascade for As Foretold and Electro they run better and cheaper counterspells like Remand, Mana Leak, so on
Sanctity is odd. Burn runs Destructive Reverly among others that tear through enchantment and i found in playtesting replaying a 4 mana spells is hard against them after they've blown it up. I run Monastery Siege as a sudo version that doubles as draw.
I'm all about options in my RB deck because i run posts and cascade.
I actually didn't test the electro version of the deck (I am just theorizing) but deprive could be a thing, at least for consideration.
Same way the borderpost version does, through attrition via Restore Balance
The ones that require more flexible cards than the post version. Control, Combo, midrange.
Not really, imagine if UW control could run 4 additional copies of board wipes, had space for cards like As Foretold, and can could still fit some of the control cards it wants.
You'd think so, but with being able to play cards like Remand, Lightning Bolt, Tormod's Crypt, and so forth cards that the post version wishes it could run. Because of this the Electro version has better answers and quicker answers to a lot of meta threats/cards such as Meddling Mage, dredge, and thus doesn't require us to combo out super quick and humans can't bunch as much if we can remove them faster.
Yes and no. You're correct on the part that you dig, part but same could go for modern UW decks that dig a lot for answers, being able to thin your deck and find your combo pieces while denying your opponent their resources is an amazing tool. With the lands, yes it's nice to have GG out, but As Foretold is only 3 mana, Electro is 2 mana, and most of the cards in the deck are 1-2 mana overall. SO you don't need to flood the table with land drops every turn.
Not sure what you mean here by "Doesn't actually seem like the deck really does anything to win" the deck plays just like the deck of old. Restore Balance enough times to where either your opponent scoops since they ran out of stuff or you gain board control since you've set them back a bunch.
If you want to make a mono R deck do so! Submit it here for feedback and keep testing it. We're a fringe deck so because of that we're not bound to set card lists. Long as we include Restore Balance how we go about it is anyones game. From cascade, as foretold, to even just suspending it.
Hope this helps!
4 mana is too expensive maybe ? Have you already tested it ?
As for a 3rd color it's up to you. Each color brings something to the table.
Experiment and let us know
Thanks for the detailed opinion, I think you're right about these points except that you compare this version to the classic Restore balance that is indeed slow. This version is faster, as you'll mulligan more aggressively and almost always cast Restore balance on t2/t3. Cast Spoil the Vault as soon as you have to, and die 18% of the time, fine Though 82% of the time, you'll manage to "balance" the game a bit.
I checked the lastest ElectroDominance versions and the Cascade versions, I'm not convinced. How can you possibly defeat Spirits and Humans with their t2 / t3 disruption? Seems these decks can't deal with a single Thalia / Musoleum Wanderer / Meddling Mage...
We can with Anger of the Gods, Detention Sphere, Supreme Will, Imprison in the Moon with the classic version and Electro version can run Bolts, Remand, Izzet Charm, and so forth. Just a matter of having the pieces when you need them.
Ya but exiling say 3-4 cards that could help all for 1 balance where both decks have easier methods of retrieve if you desperately need that 1 balance.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Steam Vents
2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Shivan Reef
2 Tolaria West
1 Stomping Ground
Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Greater Gargadon
Spells
4 Electrodominance
4 As Foretold
4 Restore Balance
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Wheel of Fate
3 Mishra's Bauble
1 Spell Pierce
2 Serum Visions
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Claws of Gix
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Abrade
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Pithing Needle
2 Dragon's Claw
4 Dispel
Matchups:
BW Eldrazi taxes 2-1
Goblin 2-1
Bg rock 2-0
Bg rock 2-1
I think that worst matchups are Burn, Goblin, Lanternless.
Thought that bg rock was an hard one, but now it's 50/50 for me. Don't be afraid to suspend a Wheel and you fix early discards problem. The real threat there are liliana of the veil and last hope. They put the clock up on their favor, and you must resolve a balance followed by a fast gargadon to race their ultimatum (especially zombies from last hope emblem).
I'm not totally sold on Baubles. They feed gargadon and can be useful to low the number of cards in hand. Can let you redraw after a balance, but those are the only meh cards imho. Sometimes you need to gain time instead of rush for the combo pieces.
I'll try this change:
-3 Mishra's Bauble
+2 Lightning Bolt
+1 Engineered Explosives
Explosives can be fetched with tolaria west, and can be cast for 3 with the current list