What do we have against surgical extraction? I was thinking faerie macabre to get the targeted balance, but was wondering what other people were running.
As for sideboard, with the split card errata, we can now play all of those cards and have cheap interaction! My sb is in flux, but it starts at a minimum:
2 wear/tear
2 dead/gone
1 rough/tumble
1 dismember
Vs hollow one, wear/tear can get the hollow ones along with dismember and nahiri can exile bloodghast
We have tuck cards. Mistveil Plains and Bow of Nylea in my opinion, if you're going to counter it Supreme Will can help there. Faerie is a good card, I don't run anything outisde double bow since I have yet to find a deck that surgicals in either mainboard or sideboard.
Few questions
1. Rough // Tumble how is that card? 2 mana deal 2 deal and 6 mana to deal everything with flying. How often are fliers prevalent in your meta? I've found that holding the bow untapped makes most decks not swing. Affinity doesn't equip unless they can ensure that creature will survive.
2. Dismember, I thought about adding it, but found that if you don't play black dealing 4 to yourself against most aggro decks generally hurts us more than them.
3. Not 3-4 Wear // Tears? I know most decks run a lot due to us folding to Stony Silence and the like.
A good card against them is Anger of the Gods. Exiles all their tiny guys that can come back.
We have tuck cards. Mistveil Plains and Bow of Nylea in my opinion, if you're going to counter it Supreme Will can help there. Faerie is a good card, I don't run anything outisde double bow since I have yet to find a deck that surgicals in either mainboard or sideboard.
Few questions
1. Rough // Tumble how is that card? 2 mana deal 2 deal and 6 mana to deal everything with flying. How often are fliers prevalent in your meta? I've found that holding the bow untapped makes most decks not swing. Affinity doesn't equip unless they can ensure that creature will survive.
2. Dismember, I thought about adding it, but found that if you don't play black dealing 4 to yourself against most aggro decks generally hurts us more than them.
3. Not 3-4 Wear // Tears? I know most decks run a lot due to us folding to Stony Silence and the like.
A good card against them is Anger of the Gods. Exiles all their tiny guys that can come back.
Totally agree, that surgical is not worth the sideboard space and we do have answers in Mistveil and Bow. This is great advice, some times hate cards just beat you.
Exactly. No deck can beat every matchup, so focus on the ones in your meta, or ones that give the deck trouble. I focus on Aggro and control with minor elements of grave hate and permanent removal.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
Hey Loki! I stumbled upon your recent post on Reddit and decided to check out the Restore Balance primer. First, I must say WOW this deck is cheap (the most recent version you posted that is). I'm looking around for my first modern deck and this one has definitely piqued my interest! Hell, compared to other modern deck prices, I could buy this one, hate it (dear god I hope not), and not even be down that much money! I do have a few questions if you don't mind.
Do you have a mulligan guide for this deck? At first glance I think it would be hard to mulligan properly as a new pilot.
Do you have a sideboard guide for specific match-ups?
Assuming I wanted to use your deck as a starting point to play Restore Balance, are there any additional cards I might want to buy to swap in or out of the deck for various reasons?
Does this Primer have an active Discord server?
(Oh, and PS, you misspelled Monastery Siege in your most recent deck-list post)
etc?
Yes it hurts us, but to be able to cascade T2-T3 into an answer to **** a lot of decks over seem like an interesting idea.
Funnily enough, our answer against burn used to be sideboarding RB out and kor firewalker in. The deck shifted away from that, though, as it’s an all-in play on a strategy our deck doesn’t synergize with.
Hey Loki! I stumbled upon your recent post on Reddit and decided to check out the Restore Balance primer. First, I must say WOW this deck is cheap (the most recent version you posted that is). I'm looking around for my first modern deck and this one has definitely piqued my interest! Hell, compared to other modern deck prices, I could buy this one, hate it (dear god I hope not), and not even be down that much money! I do have a few questions if you don't mind.
Do you have a mulligan guide for this deck? At first glance I think it would be hard to mulligan properly as a new pilot.
Do you have a sideboard guide for specific match-ups?
Assuming I wanted to use your deck as a starting point to play Restore Balance, are there any additional cards I might want to buy to swap in or out of the deck for various reasons?
Does this Primer have an active Discord server?
(Oh, and PS, you misspelled Monastery Siege in your most recent deck-list post)
Thanks!
Wow, I'm honored.
Down to business.
So disclaimer, my deck is built for my meta at my school/lgs. So take all of this with a grain of salt.
So mulligan guide.
You generally want to keep at least 1 cascade card, a fetch land, and 1-2 posts. The rest is up to you.
My version of the deck has enough proactive plays without having one in hand to be fine against most Discard effects.
Never keep a hand that doesn't. Have a cascade card. Because without one were just a bad control prison deck. You generally want to see how well you can keep up if you fall behind, say missed land drop/post drop or don't devlope the board we just lose, can you fix your mana base within the first two turns either by fetch or post, can you be proactive, and can you establish a board where you can make the opponent think you're holding cascade spells.
Now if you have As Foretold and Restore Balance in hand with 3 potential mana, then keep it.
Rest is up to you, it just takes judging a hand. I've been working on my list for a while now and I'm still figuring out hands because each deck is different.
Sideboard going off my list:
Preferred hand: Posts (2), basic or fetch (1), cascade spell (1).
Why: you need an explosion of a start. They're super fast.
5c Humans: Anger of the Gods(3), Wear // Tear (3), Blood Moon (2)
Out: 2 Thassa, 3 Sieges, 1 Restore Balance, 1 Kiora,1 Supreme Will
Why: 1 Restore Balance isn't enough to slow them down, Anger helps control their board and keeps Meddling Mage off us, and Wear Tear help with their vials and stony where blood moon shuts them down. Thassa is too slow, Sieges aren't helpful since they don't run targeted removal, and Kiora is a little slow since they go wide, and Supreme Will is negated by Cavern of Souls so we can only use them to dig deep.
Affinity:
Hand: see 5c Humans
In: Anger of the Gods (2-3), Kiora (1), Wear//Tear (2-3)
Out: Thassa (2), Sieges (2), 1 Supreme Will
Why: Affiny, much like 5c makes Thassa too slow, and Sieges while digging is nice, Restore Balance hits their lands and creatures causing them to slow down, so digging late game is fine, and since they go wide and cheap Supreme Will is only good for 1-2 spells. Blood moon doesn't help since they don't need colored mana for anything.
Control/Control Variants:
Hand: As Foretold (1), Post (1) lands (1-2), cascade or Supreme Will
Why: Control isn't fast. If we can set up, maybe get an early balance were fine. Other than that, it's just holding Supreme Will for a Restore Balance
In: Imprision in the Moon (2), Richot Trap (2)
Out: Siege (2), Kiora (1),Supreme Will (1)
So control variants usual rely on planeswalkers like JtmS, Gideon, etc to win the game and put up a wall of counter spells.
Moon's help here shutting down their walkers, and Sieges are removed since they're the least impactful 3 drop we run. Traps are brought in to help deal with counter spells.
Storm:
Hand: Anything that lets us T2 balance.
In: Ravenous Trap (2).
Out: Bow of Nylea (2)
So storm is a tricky match up. We can attempt to wipe their lands and creatures but eventually they will go off. Ravenous Trap is our only way to interact with them. Bow is taken out since none of its modes help here.
Amulet Titan:
Hand: T3 balance or Supreme Will.
If they go explosive you want an early balance, if they go prime time you want to counter since they usual tap out
In: Blood Moon (2), Wear // Tear (2),Ritchote Trap (2)
Out: Monastery Siege (3),Supreme Will (1), Thassa (2).
So titan is another weird one.
If they go explosive and we don't have a T2 Outburst we outright lose, if they go slow and can't find an amulet we can win. They run some Counters so we traps are brought in, blood moon hurts them, and wear and tear are for their amulets. We take out super slow cards or cards that don't do anything.
Boggles:
Hand: They usual take 2-3 turns to really get there so a slow ish hands isn't bad. If you can keep tempo of post, lands, or anything you'll be fine.
In: Wear // Tear (2-3)
Out: Thassa (2), 1 Supreme Will (1)
I mean, we destroy them on good draws. One restore balance and they're done. Wear tears are brought in for their stonys, enchantments, etc.
Additions:
So this is personal preference on your meta. The above decks are ones I face at my school.
I've toyed with Detention Sphere for a while before Thassa and they're good against most decks that go wide, helps G1 against 5c humans and Affinity but I didn't like having blind top decks that could've made a difference and since my G2 against them is good I accept most G1 losses.
You can up Nahiri to 4 and drop Kiora. I've found having that mix gives up advantages, she's a 1-2 of so often 5c humans don't call her and then we can bubble creatures, she explores giving us much needed tempo, but if you want more consistent Nahiris I'd do that.
Beast Within over Imprisions should you find needing instant speed remove crucial. I found giving them a 3/3 was often worse since they'd dome you in the head over and over.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
To add, with this deck, you don’t get as punished for mulliganing aggressively. Due to the nature of balance, if you mulligan, you also effectively remove another card from your opponent’s hand.
To add, with this deck, you don’t get as punished for mulliganing aggressively. Due to the nature of balance, if you mulligan, you also effectively remove another card from your opponent’s hand.
To add to this comment,
I wouldn't, personally, mull any lower than 5. 5 is playable due to have enough cards to be reactive, going to 4 means you better have a T2-3 Balance
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
I feel like the major problem with RB decks in general is the lack of wincons. This list for example may control the board but struggles to finish it.
Are you guys having problems to finish the game or is only me?
Here’s an updated list! My SB kinda failed with spells under 3cmc so that’s changed. Gideon & JTMS are fine, but Bow and Thassa do a lot more for the deck.
I feel like the major problem with RB decks in general is the lack of wincons. This list for example may control the board but struggles to finish it.
Are you guys having problems to finish the game or is only me?
My list generally don't have a problem with it, generally I win by either having more stuff, Thassa being online, Gargadon, Nahiri or Kiora even. So I have a ton of outs that get there backed by instant speed removal to threaten.
If you could, can you go deeper into what you mean by "finishing the game out" so to speak.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
GreatGodLoki you need Detention Sphere,is great defense csrd versus all things(creatures, artifacts, planeswalkers,enchantments,...)Next tournament will go with Restore Balance RUGW,need post the deck for advice me.Go restore,go!!!
It's a flex spot with either it or Thassa. Or even sideboard.
The problem is, it's good in some match ups and bad in others.
Great against aggro say Affinity, 5c Humans, Tokens, boards that go wide. But you'll find it almost useless against control since you'll 1 for 1 with it.
I moved most of that to my sideboard since Thassa in the long game of most decks helps set me up for more consist draws.
It's a meta choice, the deck is still fringe-iah being that it's not 100% consistent yet so you can easily make a switch. But to say what exactly needs to be is a meta and personal choice.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
Here’s an updated list! My SB kinda failed with spells under 3cmc so that’s changed. Gideon & JTMS are fine, but Bow and Thassa do a lot more for the deck.
No basic forests? Seems odd you'd run blood moon side board but no basic forests to back it up. Especially since bow takes double G.
Interesting Angel. As a 1 of I'm not sure how often you'll see her.
Last Mercy is cool, downside, I always go to the extreme, is they have a stony silence out or engineered explosives out and you set your mana back a turn.
I toyed it last Mercy but against most aggro decks, if you cast that you're either losing since they have 20+ damage on board, or it's a win more to screw them over.
Overall lookin good.
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
I feel like the major problem with RB decks in general is the lack of wincons. This list for example may control the board but struggles to finish it.
Are you guys having problems to finish the game or is only me?
I don't seem to have this problem either. I personally feel any card in my deck besides the balance enablers and posts are win cons. I may not run Kiora but Chandra certainly closes it out fast along with nahiri
Oh shoot good catch. The landbase was pre-mainboard Nylea so I'm going to have to adjust that. I had first thought the posts should provide sufficient green but you're right in preparing for the worst, like Stony Silence, etc. I might just swap Arid Mesas for Wooded Foothills. and maybe add 2 forests instead of the foundry and... vents maybe?
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As for sideboard, with the split card errata, we can now play all of those cards and have cheap interaction! My sb is in flux, but it starts at a minimum:
2 wear/tear
2 dead/gone
1 rough/tumble
1 dismember
Vs hollow one, wear/tear can get the hollow ones along with dismember and nahiri can exile bloodghast
Few questions
1. Rough // Tumble how is that card? 2 mana deal 2 deal and 6 mana to deal everything with flying. How often are fliers prevalent in your meta? I've found that holding the bow untapped makes most decks not swing. Affinity doesn't equip unless they can ensure that creature will survive.
2. Dismember, I thought about adding it, but found that if you don't play black dealing 4 to yourself against most aggro decks generally hurts us more than them.
3. Not 3-4 Wear // Tears? I know most decks run a lot due to us folding to Stony Silence and the like.
A good card against them is Anger of the Gods. Exiles all their tiny guys that can come back.
Totally agree, that surgical is not worth the sideboard space and we do have answers in Mistveil and Bow. This is great advice, some times hate cards just beat you.
Yes it hurts us, but to be able to cascade T2-T3 into an answer to **** a lot of decks over seem like an interesting idea.
Do you have a mulligan guide for this deck? At first glance I think it would be hard to mulligan properly as a new pilot.
Do you have a sideboard guide for specific match-ups?
Assuming I wanted to use your deck as a starting point to play Restore Balance, are there any additional cards I might want to buy to swap in or out of the deck for various reasons?
Does this Primer have an active Discord server?
(Oh, and PS, you misspelled Monastery Siege in your most recent deck-list post)
Thanks!
Funnily enough, our answer against burn used to be sideboarding RB out and kor firewalker in. The deck shifted away from that, though, as it’s an all-in play on a strategy our deck doesn’t synergize with.
https://discord.gg/JMHM5AX
Wow, I'm honored.
Down to business.
So disclaimer, my deck is built for my meta at my school/lgs. So take all of this with a grain of salt.
So mulligan guide.
You generally want to keep at least 1 cascade card, a fetch land, and 1-2 posts. The rest is up to you.
My version of the deck has enough proactive plays without having one in hand to be fine against most Discard effects.
Never keep a hand that doesn't. Have a cascade card. Because without one were just a bad control prison deck. You generally want to see how well you can keep up if you fall behind, say missed land drop/post drop or don't devlope the board we just lose, can you fix your mana base within the first two turns either by fetch or post, can you be proactive, and can you establish a board where you can make the opponent think you're holding cascade spells.
Now if you have As Foretold and Restore Balance in hand with 3 potential mana, then keep it.
Rest is up to you, it just takes judging a hand. I've been working on my list for a while now and I'm still figuring out hands because each deck is different.
Sideboard going off my list:
Preferred hand: Posts (2), basic or fetch (1), cascade spell (1).
Why: you need an explosion of a start. They're super fast.
5c Humans: Anger of the Gods(3), Wear // Tear (3), Blood Moon (2)
Out: 2 Thassa, 3 Sieges, 1 Restore Balance, 1 Kiora,1 Supreme Will
Why: 1 Restore Balance isn't enough to slow them down, Anger helps control their board and keeps Meddling Mage off us, and Wear Tear help with their vials and stony where blood moon shuts them down. Thassa is too slow, Sieges aren't helpful since they don't run targeted removal, and Kiora is a little slow since they go wide, and Supreme Will is negated by Cavern of Souls so we can only use them to dig deep.
Affinity:
Hand: see 5c Humans
In: Anger of the Gods (2-3), Kiora (1), Wear//Tear (2-3)
Out: Thassa (2), Sieges (2), 1 Supreme Will
Why: Affiny, much like 5c makes Thassa too slow, and Sieges while digging is nice, Restore Balance hits their lands and creatures causing them to slow down, so digging late game is fine, and since they go wide and cheap Supreme Will is only good for 1-2 spells. Blood moon doesn't help since they don't need colored mana for anything.
Control/Control Variants:
Hand: As Foretold (1), Post (1) lands (1-2), cascade or Supreme Will
Why: Control isn't fast. If we can set up, maybe get an early balance were fine. Other than that, it's just holding Supreme Will for a Restore Balance
In: Imprision in the Moon (2), Richot Trap (2)
Out: Siege (2), Kiora (1),Supreme Will (1)
So control variants usual rely on planeswalkers like JtmS, Gideon, etc to win the game and put up a wall of counter spells.
Moon's help here shutting down their walkers, and Sieges are removed since they're the least impactful 3 drop we run. Traps are brought in to help deal with counter spells.
Storm:
Hand: Anything that lets us T2 balance.
In: Ravenous Trap (2).
Out: Bow of Nylea (2)
So storm is a tricky match up. We can attempt to wipe their lands and creatures but eventually they will go off. Ravenous Trap is our only way to interact with them. Bow is taken out since none of its modes help here.
Amulet Titan:
Hand: T3 balance or Supreme Will.
If they go explosive you want an early balance, if they go prime time you want to counter since they usual tap out
In: Blood Moon (2), Wear // Tear (2),Ritchote Trap (2)
Out: Monastery Siege (3),Supreme Will (1), Thassa (2).
So titan is another weird one.
If they go explosive and we don't have a T2 Outburst we outright lose, if they go slow and can't find an amulet we can win. They run some Counters so we traps are brought in, blood moon hurts them, and wear and tear are for their amulets. We take out super slow cards or cards that don't do anything.
Boggles:
Hand: They usual take 2-3 turns to really get there so a slow ish hands isn't bad. If you can keep tempo of post, lands, or anything you'll be fine.
In: Wear // Tear (2-3)
Out: Thassa (2), 1 Supreme Will (1)
I mean, we destroy them on good draws. One restore balance and they're done. Wear tears are brought in for their stonys, enchantments, etc.
Additions:
So this is personal preference on your meta. The above decks are ones I face at my school.
I've toyed with Detention Sphere for a while before Thassa and they're good against most decks that go wide, helps G1 against 5c humans and Affinity but I didn't like having blind top decks that could've made a difference and since my G2 against them is good I accept most G1 losses.
You can up Nahiri to 4 and drop Kiora. I've found having that mix gives up advantages, she's a 1-2 of so often 5c humans don't call her and then we can bubble creatures, she explores giving us much needed tempo, but if you want more consistent Nahiris I'd do that.
Beast Within over Imprisions should you find needing instant speed remove crucial. I found giving them a 3/3 was often worse since they'd dome you in the head over and over.
To add to this comment,
I wouldn't, personally, mull any lower than 5. 5 is playable due to have enough cards to be reactive, going to 4 means you better have a T2-3 Balance
I feel like the major problem with RB decks in general is the lack of wincons. This list for example may control the board but struggles to finish it.
Are you guys having problems to finish the game or is only me?
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Greater Gargadon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Restore Balance
4 Supreme Will
4 Violent Outburst
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
3 Wildfield Borderpost
2 Bow of Nylea
2 As Foretold
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
2 Wear / Tear
2 Blood Moon
1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2 Oketra’s Last Mercy
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ricochet Trap
75 Cards Total
My list generally don't have a problem with it, generally I win by either having more stuff, Thassa being online, Gargadon, Nahiri or Kiora even. So I have a ton of outs that get there backed by instant speed removal to threaten.
If you could, can you go deeper into what you mean by "finishing the game out" so to speak.
It's a flex spot with either it or Thassa. Or even sideboard.
The problem is, it's good in some match ups and bad in others.
Great against aggro say Affinity, 5c Humans, Tokens, boards that go wide. But you'll find it almost useless against control since you'll 1 for 1 with it.
I moved most of that to my sideboard since Thassa in the long game of most decks helps set me up for more consist draws.
It's a meta choice, the deck is still fringe-iah being that it's not 100% consistent yet so you can easily make a switch. But to say what exactly needs to be is a meta and personal choice.
No basic forests? Seems odd you'd run blood moon side board but no basic forests to back it up. Especially since bow takes double G.
Interesting Angel. As a 1 of I'm not sure how often you'll see her.
Last Mercy is cool, downside, I always go to the extreme, is they have a stony silence out or engineered explosives out and you set your mana back a turn.
I toyed it last Mercy but against most aggro decks, if you cast that you're either losing since they have 20+ damage on board, or it's a win more to screw them over.
Overall lookin good.
I don't seem to have this problem either. I personally feel any card in my deck besides the balance enablers and posts are win cons. I may not run Kiora but Chandra certainly closes it out fast along with nahiri