I heavily disagree with the logic behind not running Nahiri. Something being an “obvious staple” (which Nahiri isn’t) doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play it because they won’t expect that. Jund without bolts gets significantly worse. Control without snapcaster. Eldrazi Tron without Thought-Knot. Tron without Karn. The reason something is an obvious staple is because it’s really strong in the list and synergizes well.
Thanks for the answer! To tell the truth, I can say I was wondering about Drift of Phantasms for quite some time. Can actually be more easy to have UU rather than search for the UB for Perplex as a tutor. That was the olny thing keeping black for me. Also Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is a tempting idea, but as for now, he's not in my 75.
I see you're using Thassa, God of the Sea in your main! How is it performing? Is on my radar for some time. If you can give me some nice words on her, I might be trying her soon
I will try to cut the black and to adjust my manabase accordingly. For the question of Stony silence, I still use posts as a way to discount Metalwork colossus. What I can do is to have multiple plains to fetch to be sure to be able to cast Wispmare eventually.
I like your list, saw what you did with Gideons and Jace, you evil man
So far so good, thanks for the replies! I will experiment with the imputs. If anybody wants to add something, all feedback is welcome!
So with Drift there have been sometimes that I've struggled a tad with the double blue but so far its been consistent. As with Thassa, I just recently went up to a two of which I've been wanting to do for a while. I love to drop her turn three start accumulating value if I don't need the Restore till turn four. So one of the biggest advantages of her in the deck besides smoothing out draws is the the unblockable to finish games so nicely. For my answers to Stony Silence I always have loved Wear//Tear for instant speed removal of enchantments and artifacts, simply because the fact that I can float mana and not have to worry about being locked.
I heavily disagree with the logic behind not running Nahiri. Something being an “obvious staple” (which Nahiri isn’t) doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play it because they won’t expect that. Jund without bolts gets significantly worse. Control without snapcaster. Eldrazi Tron without Thought-Knot. Tron without Karn. The reason something is an obvious staple is because it’s really strong in the list and synergizes well.
You can disagree, of course. However, that's not my only point about the Nahiri, the Harbinger + Emrakul, the Aeons Torn combo. I didn't spoke about Nahiri in a vacuum, in fact I really like the card by itself and I might upgrade my Ajani Vengeant to her one day (because Nahiri + Metalwork Colossus post balance is also decent, and is possible to cast colossus for free right after, thanks to posts.)
Your examples makes me wonder a little, because you are speaking exclusively about value cards in value decks. All the cards you told are great in all situations and stand alone "wincos" (heck, even bolt is a wincon now... bolt-snap-bolt anybody? )
So, my Logic behind what I told is not about the value of the card. Is more a "meta call", as far as the "meta" is concerned with my-our deck (not so much admittedly.). Is the same reason why not all the Storm players plays only Grapeshot as a wincon. Of course, I don't want to generalize too much (because a storm deck has only one "meta" wincon, and that's grapeshot. Empty the Warrens is way more fragile as a wincon) but I hope you get what I mean.
In my personal opinion, relying on Nahiri and Emrakul as a wincon makes the deck more predictable (because all the restore balance lists in mtgtop8 runs them as the meta strategy, that just a fact. I'm not even arguing otherwise, ofcourse) and thus the side in options more easy.
So with Drift there have been sometimes that I've struggled a tad with the double blue but so far its been consistent. As with Thassa, I just recently went up to a two of which I've been wanting to do for a while. I love to drop her turn three start accumulating value if I don't need the Restore till turn four. So one of the biggest advantages of her in the deck besides smoothing out draws is the the unblockable to finish games so nicely. For my answers to Stony Silence I always have loved Wear//Tear for instant speed removal of enchantments and artifacts, simply because the fact that I can float mana and not have to worry about being locked.
Thanks for the reply! I will playtest with Drifts and Thassa, and see what happens
Right now I feel like my sideboard needs the most work since I'm having s lot of trouble with burn, storm, and control matchups. Is there anything you would recommend? Is it worth having things like Leyline of The Void or Leyline of Sanctity?
@KillerTV: My roomate was a spike who played Naya Burn. While I was on a budget and didn't rely on Leyline of Sanctity, I can say that Timely Reinforcements is amazing. Literally won me the games when I draw it... well, in a timely fashion
Another good card I would like to experiment with is Pulse of Murasa. With as foretold in play, can be a good way to just recycle a dead land off of the 'yard.
About Control, is not easy. can't really give an advice other than "play smart". Which is not a very good advice. Play around counters, get the most out of your balances... Else I cannot say.
I have a storm friend, also. The only way I win those matches is to play balance aggressively, depriving them from lands. here is a match against time, you want to be the aggressor (as far as roles are concerned.)
Timely Reinforcements is definitely really good against Burn and could stand in for Leyline of Sanctity but what I am most concerned about is having a viable way to remove the graveyard against decks like storm or dredge. Right now I don't really have anything for those matchups and that is a big problem since Storm only needs a couple lands and Dredge has recurring threats like Bloodghast. For control I am trying to decide between Ricochet Trap and Failure/Comply and for Dredge/Storm it would be Leyline of the Void or Ravenous Trap.
Although you could do always something hilarious like play Rule of Law or cascade into a 1-of Rest in Peace or Ethersworn Canonist
Haha! Funny enough, I actually plan to put 1x of Rule of Law in the sb for the matches against Storm. I will hinder myself, but thanks to 3x Restore Balance and As Foretold my position will still be better than the Storm player
Has anyone else here seen the list that took a 5-0 yesterday? The list looks super strong, and makes me think the deck may be well positioned right now.
Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
I don't think the one showing of the list means that we're positioned well but I don't mind more midrange running around. With that I think the list is nice, it's not trying to be cute it's just trying to kill people. Which is nice and I will be adjusting mine to help with that. With other thoughts about it I don't know about Fiery Justice but it may replace Ghostly Prison for my way to deal with creatures. One of the the things I've been wanting to test for a while now is Leylines of Sancity in the main, with burn being well positioned against Jace decks I expect a rise in burn which at least for me seems to be he hardest matchup. So with hand hate being as good as always I can't help but think that it's great for us to play Leylines in the main. I will be talking about this after testing but if anyone has tested I would love to hear about it. Finally am I the only person who likes Dismember or should I be playing better cards?
Edit: In addition to above what's people's thoughts on 3 vs 4 Restore Balances?
I don't think the one showing of the list means that we're positioned well but I don't mind more midrange running around. With that I think the list is nice, it's not trying to be cute it's just trying to kill people. Which is nice and I will be adjusting mine to help with that. With other thoughts about it I don't know about Fiery Justice but it may replace Ghostly Prison for my way to deal with creatures. One of the the things I've been wanting to test for a while now is Leylines of Sancity in the main, with burn being well positioned against Jace decks I expect a rise in burn which at least for me seems to be he hardest matchup. So with hand hate being as good as always I can't help but think that it's great for us to play Leylines in the main. I will be talking about this after testing but if anyone has tested I would love to hear about it. Finally am I the only person who likes Dismember or should I be playing better cards?
Edit: In addition to above what's people's thoughts on 3 vs 4 Restore Balances?
I think 4 Restore balance is strong, but only in the builds that play as foretold.
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Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
It's possible no one here would be interested in something like this but nonetheless, I just set up a Discord for the pure convenience of being able to discuss the deck and what we're doing with it without having to be on the primer constantly.
If anyone is interested in joining it, here's the link https://discord.gg/JMHM5AX
Hope to see some of you there.
I don't think the one showing of the list means that we're positioned well but I don't mind more midrange running around. With that I think the list is nice, it's not trying to be cute it's just trying to kill people. Which is nice and I will be adjusting mine to help with that. With other thoughts about it I don't know about Fiery Justice but it may replace Ghostly Prison for my way to deal with creatures. One of the the things I've been wanting to test for a while now is Leylines of Sancity in the main, with burn being well positioned against Jace decks I expect a rise in burn which at least for me seems to be he hardest matchup. So with hand hate being as good as always I can't help but think that it's great for us to play Leylines in the main. I will be talking about this after testing but if anyone has tested I would love to hear about it. Finally am I the only person who likes Dismember or should I be playing better cards?
Edit: In addition to above what's people's thoughts on 3 vs 4 Restore Balances?
Leyline in the main has been great in my build.
Everytime I have one in my opener it's pretty much a snap keep against a large majority of decks since it blanks so much of what they can do.
Also, a lot of the time in those matchups, winning game 1 is key so that even if you lose game 2, you still get to be on the play for game 3.
Jace list that 5-0d was like a taste of what this deck would be like if it was tiered, and Im absolutely devestated knowing Im never going to afford JtMS, like Restore Balance has been my pet deck since I started playing Modern 4 years ago, having a card that is just a major upgrade in every way for your deck but you just can't afford it is like the worst tease of all time....
anywho yeah 4x Jace should probably become a staple of the deck here forward (until the inevitable and it gets Banned), Jace does everything we want in a card it filters, it's hard removal post Balance, and it gives us sick card advantage. Like Its the Restore Balance dream card!!!
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Modern:
Restore Balance
Gifts Ungiven
EDH:
Doran Tempo
Alesha Combo
5 color treasure Combo
4 color Astral Slide
To answer your questions
How do you play this deck?
You play it like you would normally play with the post heavy version. But it strays away from the post version to give it the ability to be more flexible against other decks. Nahiri + Emrakul means an alternate wincon or Nahiri helps cycle cards, destroys pesky things.
How many lands do you sac for Garga before Balance?
It depends generally. Personally its up to you, for me I generally do 1-2 that way they're set back a few turns
When do you use Fiery Justice?
Its an odd card I agree, but it can be used as spot removal or multiple instances of removal. We don't generally care about the life gain effect because we don't run that many creatures at all so trying to hit them down doesnt' work for us.
What does the first do in the SB?
The forest is there for more consistent plays, whether it comes to playing more Posts, or making sure your Fiery Justice,Violent Outburst, can be consistently activated. Green isn't part of this guys deck as a whole but mainly there from what I see as only for the cards I mentioned above.
Hopefully this helps clears things up for you!
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
I have a couple things I just want to get some opinions on:
1. Not really related but were we moved to the Established Modern forum?
2. I don't know how many of you watch MTGGoldfish but personally I am a big fan. He did a stream with the deck that went 5-0 and only went 2-3 which is pretty bad. Seth mentioned that the JtMS felt pretty clunky in the build and he wished it played As Foretold. Is something like As Foretold or Monastery Siege just better?
4. Off of the same idea as #3 I think that the deck that went 5-0 had the right idea about including more walkers and fewer borderposts. This turns us into more of a 4c control deck with the option to cripple our opponents mana with a good RB draw. I really like Fiery Justice as a sweeper against many decks and a possible replacement to Ghostly Prison or Anger of the Gods. This could mean having some in the SB, going up to 6-8 walkers instead of 3-5 and playing more card selection spells like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Nahiri, the Harbinger, Monastery Siege, or Supreme Will
1. Not sure.I think so. Since the old URL says the old forum doesn't exist
2. I run 2 As Foretold and 2 Monastery Siege in the mainboard. The purpose of JtMS is to kinda do all those things both those cards do together BUT he is clunky. Siege is good for EITHER loot or minor protection whereas JtMS can Brainstorm. As Foretold allows us to play around Eggs Emrakul, Taking Turns, Opening hand Restore Balances. So personally opinion, its up to you. I find him clunkly just looking at him.
3. Ya, people are beginning to realized that having dudes is a hazard for us these days. I use to run March, Lingering Souls, and Metalworks and while they were cool, my opponents wouldn't swing and I'd be stuck. Shifting away from that into the 2nd option provides us better overall deck strength and doesn't lock us into "Draw Casade and win"
4. The problem I have with the 5-0 deck is that it runs too few posts and basics. I get it wants to branch out, but if you can't reliably play your posts or wipe your opponent off lands I feel RB is just worse in that situation. Its the focal point of the deck. Anger of the Gods (in my opinion) is better than Fiery Justice due to the fact of R/B Hollow One deck running around, Non-Totem Armored Boggles, and Dredge. Exiling their guys helps us, and makes our RB way better whereas Ghostly Prison helps slow down aggro. I play a friend of mine at school (he runs Boggles) and playing an early T3-T4 Prison slows him down immensely.
Just my personally opinion on the matter. Hopefully it helps!
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It's easy to believe you're a god when you're twice as powerful as everyone else.
Hey guys, are any cards coming out in Dominaria that we've seen look like possible addition to Restore Balance or ones that may hold possibilities. And have we ever felt about updating the primer a bit? So new players don't build the older and out of date versions?
So with Drift there have been sometimes that I've struggled a tad with the double blue but so far its been consistent. As with Thassa, I just recently went up to a two of which I've been wanting to do for a while. I love to drop her turn three start accumulating value if I don't need the Restore till turn four. So one of the biggest advantages of her in the deck besides smoothing out draws is the the unblockable to finish games so nicely. For my answers to Stony Silence I always have loved Wear//Tear for instant speed removal of enchantments and artifacts, simply because the fact that I can float mana and not have to worry about being locked.
You can disagree, of course. However, that's not my only point about the Nahiri, the Harbinger + Emrakul, the Aeons Torn combo. I didn't spoke about Nahiri in a vacuum, in fact I really like the card by itself and I might upgrade my Ajani Vengeant to her one day (because Nahiri + Metalwork Colossus post balance is also decent, and is possible to cast colossus for free right after, thanks to posts.)
Your examples makes me wonder a little, because you are speaking exclusively about value cards in value decks. All the cards you told are great in all situations and stand alone "wincos" (heck, even bolt is a wincon now... bolt-snap-bolt anybody? )
So, my Logic behind what I told is not about the value of the card. Is more a "meta call", as far as the "meta" is concerned with my-our deck (not so much admittedly.). Is the same reason why not all the Storm players plays only Grapeshot as a wincon. Of course, I don't want to generalize too much (because a storm deck has only one "meta" wincon, and that's grapeshot. Empty the Warrens is way more fragile as a wincon) but I hope you get what I mean.
In my personal opinion, relying on Nahiri and Emrakul as a wincon makes the deck more predictable (because all the restore balance lists in mtgtop8 runs them as the meta strategy, that just a fact. I'm not even arguing otherwise, ofcourse) and thus the side in options more easy.
Thanks for the reply! I will playtest with Drifts and Thassa, and see what happens
Another good card I would like to experiment with is Pulse of Murasa. With as foretold in play, can be a good way to just recycle a dead land off of the 'yard.
About Control, is not easy. can't really give an advice other than "play smart". Which is not a very good advice. Play around counters, get the most out of your balances... Else I cannot say.
I have a storm friend, also. The only way I win those matches is to play balance aggressively, depriving them from lands. here is a match against time, you want to be the aggressor (as far as roles are concerned.)
That's it for me, hope can be helpful
Although you could do always something hilarious like play Rule of Law or cascade into a 1-of Rest in Peace or Ethersworn Canonist
Here's the list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-wubrg-45517#paper
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
Edit: In addition to above what's people's thoughts on 3 vs 4 Restore Balances?
I think 4 Restore balance is strong, but only in the builds that play as foretold.
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
If anyone is interested in joining it, here's the link https://discord.gg/JMHM5AX
Hope to see some of you there.
Leyline in the main has been great in my build.
Everytime I have one in my opener it's pretty much a snap keep against a large majority of decks since it blanks so much of what they can do.
Also, a lot of the time in those matchups, winning game 1 is key so that even if you lose game 2, you still get to be on the play for game 3.
anywho yeah 4x Jace should probably become a staple of the deck here forward (until the inevitable and it gets Banned), Jace does everything we want in a card it filters, it's hard removal post Balance, and it gives us sick card advantage. Like Its the Restore Balance dream card!!!
Restore Balance
Gifts Ungiven
EDH:
Doran Tempo
Alesha Combo
5 color treasure Combo
4 color Astral Slide
Restore Balance
Gifts Ungiven
EDH:
Doran Tempo
Alesha Combo
5 color treasure Combo
4 color Astral Slide
I do not understand this deck:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-wubrg-45517#paper
How do you play this deck?
How many land do you sac for Garga before Balance?
When do you use Fiery Justice?
What does the forest do in the SB?
I am playing usually the borderpost heavy versions....
How do you play this deck?
You play it like you would normally play with the post heavy version. But it strays away from the post version to give it the ability to be more flexible against other decks. Nahiri + Emrakul means an alternate wincon or Nahiri helps cycle cards, destroys pesky things.
How many lands do you sac for Garga before Balance?
It depends generally. Personally its up to you, for me I generally do 1-2 that way they're set back a few turns
When do you use Fiery Justice?
Its an odd card I agree, but it can be used as spot removal or multiple instances of removal. We don't generally care about the life gain effect because we don't run that many creatures at all so trying to hit them down doesnt' work for us.
What does the first do in the SB?
The forest is there for more consistent plays, whether it comes to playing more Posts, or making sure your Fiery Justice,Violent Outburst, can be consistently activated. Green isn't part of this guys deck as a whole but mainly there from what I see as only for the cards I mentioned above.
Hopefully this helps clears things up for you!
1. Not really related but were we moved to the Established Modern forum?
2. I don't know how many of you watch MTGGoldfish but personally I am a big fan. He did a stream with the deck that went 5-0 and only went 2-3 which is pretty bad. Seth mentioned that the JtMS felt pretty clunky in the build and he wished it played As Foretold. Is something like As Foretold or Monastery Siege just better?
3. I don't like Metalwork Colossus at all as a wincon and think Greater Gargadon and Nahiri, the Harbinger are just better wincons. I am trying to be a more controlling/blue based deck with Monastery Siege, Supreme Will, As Foretold, and more removal spells plus the option to do a whole bunch of Balances with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I know some people said they didn't like this but it seems like the direction this deck wants to take.
4. Off of the same idea as #3 I think that the deck that went 5-0 had the right idea about including more walkers and fewer borderposts. This turns us into more of a 4c control deck with the option to cripple our opponents mana with a good RB draw. I really like Fiery Justice as a sweeper against many decks and a possible replacement to Ghostly Prison or Anger of the Gods. This could mean having some in the SB, going up to 6-8 walkers instead of 3-5 and playing more card selection spells like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Nahiri, the Harbinger, Monastery Siege, or Supreme Will
2. I run 2 As Foretold and 2 Monastery Siege in the mainboard. The purpose of JtMS is to kinda do all those things both those cards do together BUT he is clunky. Siege is good for EITHER loot or minor protection whereas JtMS can Brainstorm. As Foretold allows us to play around Eggs Emrakul, Taking Turns, Opening hand Restore Balances. So personally opinion, its up to you. I find him clunkly just looking at him.
3. Ya, people are beginning to realized that having dudes is a hazard for us these days. I use to run March, Lingering Souls, and Metalworks and while they were cool, my opponents wouldn't swing and I'd be stuck. Shifting away from that into the 2nd option provides us better overall deck strength and doesn't lock us into "Draw Casade and win"
4. The problem I have with the 5-0 deck is that it runs too few posts and basics. I get it wants to branch out, but if you can't reliably play your posts or wipe your opponent off lands I feel RB is just worse in that situation. Its the focal point of the deck. Anger of the Gods (in my opinion) is better than Fiery Justice due to the fact of R/B Hollow One deck running around, Non-Totem Armored Boggles, and Dredge. Exiling their guys helps us, and makes our RB way better whereas Ghostly Prison helps slow down aggro. I play a friend of mine at school (he runs Boggles) and playing an early T3-T4 Prison slows him down immensely.
Just my personally opinion on the matter. Hopefully it helps!
4 Simian Spirit Guide. I still don't feel that confident about Anger of the Gods mana and would be interested to know how that's working for you. Since I'm only playing 12 posts it might weaken my Tron and Storm matchup so I am considering going up to 4 Blood Moon and playing either Leyline of Sanctity or Ravenous Trap. I am just about to buy a playset of Leyline of Sanctity and does that mean I can cut Timely Reinforcements against Burn? I am also going to go up to 4 Nahiri, the Harbinger and have it and Greater Gargadon as my sole wincons (for now). This is the list I am currently playing with: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/23-02-18-restore-balance/?cb=1520657886
EDIT: after more playtesting I realize that Anger of the Gods is way better than Fiery Justice.