Do you guys think Natural state could be better than whispmare and ingot chewer? It could be brought in versus affinity which is a tough match up and against stony silence maybe 2-3?
Hotwaterproxy: natural state would trigger cascade as opposed to evoke creatures sneaking past.
Been considering an earlier post regarding monastery siege, I feel it could be a reasonable replacement for thieves fortune in my list with variable purpose and adds to devotion.
Well, I had a pretty rough weekend. At my FNM, I went 3-1 beating mono black discard, Naya Zoo, and a mono-colorless Eldrazi (which was very explosive, but I was lucky to topdeck a cascade spell right on the last possible turn). Lost to Merfolk in the finals, but it was quite close.
Then I went to SCG Regionals and got eaten alive. The top tables seemed to be a lot of the Eldrazi type decks, while at the middle tables was just all super fast linear aggro decks. Infect, Burn, Zoo, Affinity, a hint of Delver too. The metagame shift really hurt my build, as I am a sitting duck for turns 1 and 2 and maybe even 3. I was only able to must up a 4-5 record, and every game seemed like an uphill battle.
It's a shame you felt so poorly positioned. Specifically how did the eldrazi decks matchup feel? I was thinking that perhaps restore balance would be a good avenue for attacking the eldrazi decks, because it gives you the ability to attack the lands and the creatures in one swoop.
The only Eldrazi deck I played was the RU one and the first game he beat me with two of the 5/5 haste tramplers before I could do much. I hit a balance but he rebuilt quickly. Then game two, I hit a balnce that would completely wipe his board and leave him with 0 permanents. Stubborn Denial ruins everything.
I think that the LD of the deck makes it seem like a good match, plus any main deck blood moons. But then the Eldrazi decks are faster than all the other aggro decks too, they can kill us while we just play borderposts. :/
So how are we going to handle a meta with mainboard chalice of the void. Do we mainboard an ingot chewer ? I foresee wanting to balance t3. I also imagine other decks using mainboard artifact hate which sucks for posts.
So how are we going to handle a meta with mainboard chalice of the void.
That's a tough one. Main deck Beast Within is all I got. There is a Mono Blue Tron player at my FNM who has had maindeck Chalices forever. Always tough to play him. Ingot Chewer obviously comes in from the board.
Well, I had a pretty rough weekend. At my FNM, I went 3-1 beating mono black discard, Naya Zoo, and a mono-colorless Eldrazi (which was very explosive, but I was lucky to topdeck a cascade spell right on the last possible turn). Lost to Merfolk in the finals, but it was quite close.
Then I went to SCG Regionals and got eaten alive. The top tables seemed to be a lot of the Eldrazi type decks, while at the middle tables was just all super fast linear aggro decks. Infect, Burn, Zoo, Affinity, a hint of Delver too. The metagame shift really hurt my build, as I am a sitting duck for turns 1 and 2 and maybe even 3. I was only able to must up a 4-5 record, and every game seemed like an uphill battle.
I thought that Dismember would not be good in the side, but it still is. Instant speed Kiki-Resto combo and such is important to defend. Plus infect creatures. Anger of the Gods is great, but I only saw it once the whole nine rounds. It would have been a great play on a lot of board states, but the mana is tough to configure without a Spirit Guide.
There have been many game 1s when a turn three blood moon (or turn two + Spirit Guide) has won the game right there. The opponent doesn't have much pressure yet and now they can't even crack their fetch lands. Plus, with the rise of colorless eldrazi, it hoses them too since they can't tap for colorless. Even better, even if you don't play them game 1, you can cascade past them to balance and then game two, your opponent is playing around them while you have sided them out
After the Eldrazi invasion, I start to think whether it is time for Balance again.
I love your idea of BTL, and Gifts Ungiven, so I get together a similar list. I would like any comment form you.
Yes this is a 65 cards in the main deck, but I do not want to draw a balance... We will see.
I use Beast Within against the enchantments and PWs what can escape the balance, the Lingering Souls can get me some time to get one of my wincon or in case of hand disruption it will buy some time until get my next cascade. The Simian Spirit Guide allow us to some fast mana what can be useful in BTL and in cascade also.
I've decided to change all my PW to creature, because I can not cast them by the BTL. If I am going the Gifts plan, I will cast Terastodon with 3 elephant after the balance, this should be enough. If i cant cast balance before BTL or the enemy can recover it easily, or I do not have cascade, than I cast BTL target Mogis, God of Slaughter because it is immune to the balance effect. Otherwise BTL can cast any of my card, I can use it for Lingering Souls or Beast Within, even after SB I can get any of my hate card...
The sideboard contains some hate card what can be cascade into, or cast by BTL. And of course lot of artifact hate against Chalice, and enchatment hate against Stony silence.
My current revision to test this week.
Intend to have a crack at a GPT with it.
Open to suggestions and criticism.
Your card list is very hard to read, try to put in order!
You have too many fetch land and dual. When I played this deck I do not want duals and fetches. The life loss is relevant and you only win one turn after the balance, but usually there is nothing to cast that time, I do not feel necessary.
I do not see the point of to put in Coalition Relic, what is it for?
Hi Kavics, thanks for reply. Apologies for awkward decklist I did it from mobile and im not used to posting sorry, I will practise and post a clean list. I've used fetchlands to be able to get mountain first turn for a gargadon or searching up mistveil plains. The hallowed foutain was just the vesatility via a fetch as I was leaning on Thassa's devotion somewhat. I felt like relic was a good option to get to 5 mana for BtL. This list has been a theoretical brainstorm over the past week as im without a computer and havent got to play live either.
How do you win one turn after balance? (Other than concedes a.k.a ragequit)
I've typically found myself RB early with no lands/creatures in play. Then hoping to generate a board before they recover.
Wincons:
You are right this is the main problem, and the Gifts is a possible answer. (secondary answer is BTL, you can get a Mogis, Thargtusk or a Balance with it, it could be very useful when you are after RB without Garga)
I put only one gifts in my list (right now I have only one, but in future I will try with playset).
Lands: If you want a mountain I think much better to use Evolving Wilds. You can freely reach any missing color, and we do not care about the slow manna.
Typically
T1 Evolving to Basic
T2 Post, put back the land, Post again
Of course after RB, it is a little bit ackward to put the 5th or 4th land tapped into battlefield, but usually the opponent only have access 1 or 2 land that time, maybe we have time for our bombs.
In case we use fetch land, you can not access to every color. If you have Violent Outburst with two Wildfield Borderpost and a Windswept Heath, you are in trouble.
I put only one Windswept Heath to access Mistveil Plains, but maybe this is also wrong.
Has anyone considered or tried running containment membrane as a *****ty pseudo-removal spell? Not as good as hard removal, of course, but it counts toward devotion for Thassa and can be dropped on turn 2 if you play a post to deal with an early threat.
Hi team, also buying into the gifts package at the moment. Having a fast win-con post balance is where I think this deck often struggles the most. This is the list I'm working with at the moment, and will be taking to my LGS this weekend
Hey guys, I'm looking to build a new modern deck (was playing elves but the deck is really bad in my local meta at the moment so I've just kind of quit playing for a little bit until I can acquire a new deck to play), I saw an older primer from about last year on this deck and I think the idea and combo is very cool, plus it's inexpensive.
However, I want to see what kind of list you guys would recommend in the new meta to prepare against Eldrazi. The primer I did watch was about a year old, and I just want something more up to date before I decide to invest in this deck. I think with the proper build I could totally blindside the local modern league for the next season.
Folks! This deck with Gifts package evolves to the next level. Somebody should update the primer with Gifts also!!
(sorry for my English I am not a native speaker)
It was fun and it was powerful, of course I didn't win, but this was only because I am not an experienced player. I am pretty sure it can be much better.
I think in the current meta this deck has a lot of potential.
Here is my result: Infect 1-1-1
Game1: Perfect start, T3 cascade Restore Balance, T4 Gifts, T5 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Game2: T2 Melira, Balance was countered by him and the 1/1 with combat trick was beat me.
Game3: Time was called, but only one more turn and I win.
Blue Moon 0-2
Game1: It was a close match, but only because he wasn't familiar with this deck.
Game2: Every borderpost was countered, I fought with some trap, but obviously i haven't got a chance.
8racks 1-1-1
Game1: Easy win.
Game2: There was a very stupid misplay from me.
Game3: Time out, I should have won again.
Boggles 2-0
Easy win.
Naya Burn 0-2
Game1: I kept a bad 5 cards hand. I should mulligan to 4...
Game2: I kept a mediocre 5 card hand. And after the complete wipe (she lost every creature and every land), she was capable to shot 11 to the head in the following two turn...
Do not need any fetch land, the fetch land only fix two color, we need 5 color fixing (for the Bring to light), and also we do not want to cast anything until turn 3! (May the surge cards changes this in the future!)
We auto lose against control, play this deck while there are no control decks around.
Lingerning Souls is a bad card in this deck, in a grindy game I prefer a top deck cascade than this, after Balance we need the Gifts not this.
I need some sideboard plan. It is very hard to decide what to SB out from the main.
I think this deck can beat lot of deck from the current meta, and only auto-lose against control decks. So lets brew it to a Tier2 deck!!!
The problem with ric. trap in my meta is that control opponents will always have 2 counters in hand, 1 for the restore balance and another for the Ric. trap, the denial has really solved this problem for me, assemble 5 mana and I've got the unbreakable combo
If your opponent has two counters in hand, then they can just counter the Restore Balance a second time after you played the Denial. The problem is, if they have two counterspells, then the balance is getting countered no matter what. Even if you tried something like Render Silent. You cascade, they try to counter the balance, you try to Render Silent the counter spell, they play a second counter spell targeting Balance in response to the Render Silent.
The reason Ricochet Trap is better in my mind is: 1) holding up R is easier than UU and 2) Simian Spirit Guide + Ric Trap is a blowout if they don't see it coming.
Maybe you're looking for Silence in the first place. Just try to cast Silence right before you cascade. If they don't counter it, then you cascade. If they do counter it, then don't cascade and continue waiting.
[quote from="glowlog »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/221760-restore-balance?comment=1874"]
Maybe you're looking for Silence in the first place. Just try to cast Silence right before you cascade. If they don't counter it, then you cascade. If they do counter it, then don't cascade and continue waiting.
Silence? Silence is bad in this deck, we do not want to cascade into it.
What would your recommended 75 be at the moment? Budget is somewhat of a concern because I don't have a lot of money right now but I do have a decent amount of tradestock. I'll probably proxy up whatever list you give me and see how that goes while I learn the ins and outs of the deck. I just don't want to be playing something that's dated and won't stand a chance in the new meta.
Been considering an earlier post regarding monastery siege, I feel it could be a reasonable replacement for thieves fortune in my list with variable purpose and adds to devotion.
Then I went to SCG Regionals and got eaten alive. The top tables seemed to be a lot of the Eldrazi type decks, while at the middle tables was just all super fast linear aggro decks. Infect, Burn, Zoo, Affinity, a hint of Delver too. The metagame shift really hurt my build, as I am a sitting duck for turns 1 and 2 and maybe even 3. I was only able to must up a 4-5 record, and every game seemed like an uphill battle.
I think that the LD of the deck makes it seem like a good match, plus any main deck blood moons. But then the Eldrazi decks are faster than all the other aggro decks too, they can kill us while we just play borderposts. :/
That's a tough one. Main deck Beast Within is all I got. There is a Mono Blue Tron player at my FNM who has had maindeck Chalices forever. Always tough to play him. Ingot Chewer obviously comes in from the board.
1 Plains
2 Island
2 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Mistveil Plains
Borderposts (13)
4 Wildfield Borderpost
4 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
1 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Ardent Plea
4 Violent Outburst
3 Restore Balance
Utility (8)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Beast Within
Other Stuff (15)
4 Greater Gargadon
2 Blood Moon
2 Thassa, god of the Sea
2 Thopter Spy Network
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Haunted Plate Mail
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Dismember
4 Ricochet Trap
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Anger of the Gods
I thought that Dismember would not be good in the side, but it still is. Instant speed Kiki-Resto combo and such is important to defend. Plus infect creatures. Anger of the Gods is great, but I only saw it once the whole nine rounds. It would have been a great play on a lot of board states, but the mana is tough to configure without a Spirit Guide.
Intend to have a crack at a GPT with it.
Open to suggestions and criticism.
4x Ardent Plea
2x Arid Mesa
4x Beast Within
2x Bring to Light
2x Coalition Relic
1x Dismember
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
3x Firewild Borderpost
1x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4x Greater Gargadon
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Krosan Grip
1x Mistveil Plains
1x Mistvein Borderpost
1x Mountain
1x Phyrexian Totem
1x Plains
3x Restore Balance
1x Rolling Temblor
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Violent Outburst
3x Wildfield Borderpost
1x Windswept Heath
1x Timely Reinforcements
2x Ingot Chewer
2x Kor Firewalker
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Ricochet Trap
4x Wispmare
After the Eldrazi invasion, I start to think whether it is time for Balance again.
I love your idea of BTL, and Gifts Ungiven, so I get together a similar list. I would like any comment form you.
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Windswept Heath
Borderposts(16)
3 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
1 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Veinfire Borderpost
4 Wildfield Borderpost
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
4 Demonic Dread
4 Restore Balance
Defense and Utility(11)
3 Beast Within
4 Lingering Souls
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Wincons(10)
2 Bring to Light
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Greater Gargadon
1 Mogis, God of Slaughter
1 Terastodon
1 Unburial Rites
Yes this is a 65 cards in the main deck, but I do not want to draw a balance... We will see.
I use Beast Within against the enchantments and PWs what can escape the balance, the Lingering Souls can get me some time to get one of my wincon or in case of hand disruption it will buy some time until get my next cascade. The Simian Spirit Guide allow us to some fast mana what can be useful in BTL and in cascade also.
I've decided to change all my PW to creature, because I can not cast them by the BTL. If I am going the Gifts plan, I will cast Terastodon with 3 elephant after the balance, this should be enough. If i cant cast balance before BTL or the enemy can recover it easily, or I do not have cascade, than I cast BTL target Mogis, God of Slaughter because it is immune to the balance effect. Otherwise BTL can cast any of my card, I can use it for Lingering Souls or Beast Within, even after SB I can get any of my hate card...
Maybe I need more Gifts. Whats your opinion?
1 Damping Matrix
2 Dismember
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Ricochet Trap
3 Wispmare
The sideboard contains some hate card what can be cascade into, or cast by BTL. And of course lot of artifact hate against Chalice, and enchatment hate against Stony silence.
Your card list is very hard to read, try to put in order!
You have too many fetch land and dual. When I played this deck I do not want duals and fetches. The life loss is relevant and you only win one turn after the balance, but usually there is nothing to cast that time, I do not feel necessary.
I do not see the point of to put in Coalition Relic, what is it for?
How do you win one turn after balance? (Other than concedes a.k.a ragequit)
I've typically found myself RB early with no lands/creatures in play. Then hoping to generate a board before they recover.
You are right this is the main problem, and the Gifts is a possible answer. (secondary answer is BTL, you can get a Mogis, Thargtusk or a Balance with it, it could be very useful when you are after RB without Garga)
I put only one gifts in my list (right now I have only one, but in future I will try with playset).
The perfect draw will be:
T1 Post
T2 Post + suspend Garga
T3 Cascade
T4 eot Gifts (Terastodon, Unburial rites)
T5 Terastodon, Iona, Shield of Emeria etc
Lands: If you want a mountain I think much better to use Evolving Wilds. You can freely reach any missing color, and we do not care about the slow manna.
Typically
T1 Evolving to Basic
T2 Post, put back the land, Post again
Of course after RB, it is a little bit ackward to put the 5th or 4th land tapped into battlefield, but usually the opponent only have access 1 or 2 land that time, maybe we have time for our bombs.
In case we use fetch land, you can not access to every color. If you have Violent Outburst with two Wildfield Borderpost and a Windswept Heath, you are in trouble.
I put only one Windswept Heath to access Mistveil Plains, but maybe this is also wrong.
Lands:
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Breeding Pool
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Flooded Strand
4x Wooded Foothills
Borderposts:
4x Fieldmist Borderpost
4x Firewild Borderpost
2x Wildfield Borderpost
2x Veinfire Borderpost
2x Mistvein Borderpost
Balance Package:
4x Violent Outburst
4x Ardent Plea
4x Greater Gargeddon
3x Restore Balance
Gifts Package:
4x Gifts Ungiven
1x Unburial Rites
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Utility:
2x Blood Moon
2x Beast Within
2x Bring to Light
4x Simian Spirit Guide
Sideboard:
4x Leyline of Sanctity
4x Ricochet Trap
1x Rest in Peace
1x Thragtusk
1x Terastodon
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Ingot Chewer
(sorry, having issues formatting to make it easier to read)
However, I want to see what kind of list you guys would recommend in the new meta to prepare against Eldrazi. The primer I did watch was about a year old, and I just want something more up to date before I decide to invest in this deck. I think with the proper build I could totally blindside the local modern league for the next season.
Thanks for your help guys!
(sorry for my English I am not a native speaker)
I've played this deck at my LGS.
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
Borderposts(16)
3 Fieldmist Borderpost
4 Firewild Borderpost
3 Mistvein Borderpost
4 Veinfire Borderpost
2 Wildfield Borderpost
Cascade+Balance(14)
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
2 Demonic Dread
4 Restore Balance
Defense and Utility(11)
3 Beast Within
2 Lingering Souls
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Bring to Light
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Greater Gargadon
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Terastodon
2 Unburial Rites
1 Dismember
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Rest in Peace
3 Ricochet Trap
3 Wispmare
It was fun and it was powerful, of course I didn't win, but this was only because I am not an experienced player. I am pretty sure it can be much better.
I think in the current meta this deck has a lot of potential.
Here is my result:
Infect 1-1-1
Game1: Perfect start, T3 cascade Restore Balance, T4 Gifts, T5 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Game2: T2 Melira, Balance was countered by him and the 1/1 with combat trick was beat me.
Game3: Time was called, but only one more turn and I win.
Blue Moon 0-2
Game1: It was a close match, but only because he wasn't familiar with this deck.
Game2: Every borderpost was countered, I fought with some trap, but obviously i haven't got a chance.
8racks 1-1-1
Game1: Easy win.
Game2: There was a very stupid misplay from me.
Game3: Time out, I should have won again.
Boggles 2-0
Easy win.
Naya Burn 0-2
Game1: I kept a bad 5 cards hand. I should mulligan to 4...
Game2: I kept a mediocre 5 card hand. And after the complete wipe (she lost every creature and every land), she was capable to shot 11 to the head in the following two turn...
My comments:
I think this deck can beat lot of deck from the current meta, and only auto-lose against control decks. So lets brew it to a Tier2 deck!!!
And one more important things:
Thank you, man! I love this!!! Thank you!
If your opponent has two counters in hand, then they can just counter the Restore Balance a second time after you played the Denial. The problem is, if they have two counterspells, then the balance is getting countered no matter what. Even if you tried something like Render Silent. You cascade, they try to counter the balance, you try to Render Silent the counter spell, they play a second counter spell targeting Balance in response to the Render Silent.
The reason Ricochet Trap is better in my mind is: 1) holding up R is easier than UU and 2) Simian Spirit Guide + Ric Trap is a blowout if they don't see it coming.
Maybe you're looking for Silence in the first place. Just try to cast Silence right before you cascade. If they don't counter it, then you cascade. If they do counter it, then don't cascade and continue waiting.
Silence? Silence is bad in this deck, we do not want to cascade into it.