Thanks, I totally forgot to consider one of the main mechanics of a deck I have been playing for at least two years lol I am clearly really tired lol thanks
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the task spilled over into undeath, he stopped calling it his life's work.
Decks
Standard: GBGB EnergyGB GRGR EnergyGR
Modern: RBUWAd NauseamRBUW GRGR TitanshiftGR UBLUE STEEEEEELU UR Storm U Turbo Turns
2 copies of one card, or 1 copy and 1 other card that does the same but sometimes is worse?
Great question indeed!
More like, should we split our win-cons between 3 good ones, for 1 of them, then a sudden 4th that has zero upside compared to the others and doesn't work with another half of our combo?
Conflagrate is sweet (everyone forget this one slots into our deck?!), lightning storm is best, lab man solves the corner cases, card being discussed is garbage.
I sign below what RADN & BatHickey said about Fateful Showdown. The card is absolute trash. It's already been brought to the table in January (already by Tom), already dismissed (by BatHickey), and then we're getting back to it - basically I'm asking myself if some people here are actually reading other people's answers to the points they put on the table :rolleyes:.
Not that I don't think it's a good card, it's even worse than that: I can't even see the rationale behind trying that hot piece of garbage. It's strictly worse than LS (costs 1 more, only works in conjunction with Grace), doesn't solve any of the deck's problems.
Been playing the deck for 3 years, the community did an awesome job at solving the archetype - barring manabase preferences (City of Brass, for example) and some SB choices.
<rant> It looks like some people are down to deconstructing anything that's been done in cementing as many of the possible slots - maybe just to create some talk in the thread, idk - without proposing anything really constructive. Same old, bad, dismissed options being talked about over and over again.
The only things we should be talking about are metashifts and how to adapt to them, strategies and match-ups. Not 'oh I found yet another suboptimal card to replace one of our established slots'.
It's just time to grow up and accept that it's not time for deckbuilding anymore. It's now time to consider we're a solved archetype that just awaits to put up results become Tier 1. </rant>
I know the card is garbage, it has been reported only once in a decklist in a league in January 2017 and one in 2016 (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13891&d=282149&f=MO). I wanted to try it : I'm not advocating for it. I know the card is strictly inferior to Lightning Storm which is our go-to win condition and Conflagrate is the alternate for sorcery speed.
I've been playing the deck for almost 3 years in competitive events and am very confortable with a fetchlands / shocklands manabase with Peer / Teachings. Your ''stock list'' idealistic views are really cute and your need to asses your pseudo-wisdom about how the deck should be built is getting old. You can keep to yourself your condenscending comments and your rant : your talk about growing old is juvenile. I'd be more than happy to see you going somewhere else if you're not pleased with how the discussion is going forward on this thread.
In the meantime, I thank all of the others who are participating with constructive criticism, reports and ideas about how the deck should evolve and adapt to the current metagame even though it's not a great environment for us. Metashifting analysis are always welcomed and I enjoy having discussion over our beloved deck with you guys.
A lot of decks run different variants and there will always be the more popular result pusher, spoils is the best and most popular in our case (and my opinion) however the wish and teachings builds will always put up results and some people are a ton more comfortable with how those variants play so in my eyes there is never a wrong way to play build a deck. I've seen a few lists run Desperate Ritual on occasions, I've even seen it on GP Stream a couple of times (early rounds bare in mind but still people think it's the right thing for the deck) and it has had relevance where one guy had to use two SSG's to go off. However I'd cut a cantrip over a SSG if I was to ever run the ritual.
Like for me, Lingering Souls is my most played MVP sideboard card but I see nearly nobody else with Ad Nauseam playing the card at all.
And although I do have to agree that Fateful Showdown is pretty terrible (I own 18 foils so trust me I hate saying that) I do think that somewhere there is another win-con out there for us. Those links Bathickey shared a few days ago are the kind of one's I think are a decent shift for us if it is really necessary although I'm not a fan of moving away from the stock list I have ran for the last two and a bit years.
A question I want to ask is Tezzeret's Gambit worth playing? I saw it in a list on mtgtop8 recently and never heard of the card in my life but it seems to have really decent relevance with the proliferate and card drawing. Can give use an extra mana on prisms and can keep a Mine going for longer. (sometimes relevant) This same list has a 1-off Moonring Island which is really strange but gives information... I guess? lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the task spilled over into undeath, he stopped calling it his life's work.
Decks
Standard: GBGB EnergyGB GRGR EnergyGR
Modern: RBUWAd NauseamRBUW GRGR TitanshiftGR UBLUE STEEEEEELU UR Storm U Turbo Turns
1 SSG for 1 Ritual as proven itself worth of an Open win this year while I'm not necessarily advocatinG for it (and please,no mumbo jumbo about the relevance of one card in the 75, just watch the Open to see on camera what the card has done over several games).
Your pitch about ''mere optimality'' is pure propaganda : let people play what they want and shove off. You don't have the right nor the autorithy to decide what's right and wrong. You are the one raising dead subjects with your pedantic attitude. We don't need some ''bad content'' rant from you.
Hi guys! I'm going to Madrid too in December, and i would like to share thoughts about the sideboarding plan against death shadow, especially the grixis version. I found it super hard to face, since we just can't cut all of our pacts because otherwise they'll simply counter our combo pieces with stubborn denials (against the nonblue versions of the deck i just cut them all, since they're pretty much useless against a BGx discard shell). Leylines need to come in, there shouldn't be any doubt about it. I'm still figuring out if i want to side in fatal pushes and thoughtseizes (i currently play 2 and 2). Pushes are great against DS, but they're way better against the BGx deck, where they also kill tarmo, grixis has 4 threats push can't deal with (2 frogs, 2 tasigur) and I'm not too happy to use it to kill a snapcaster, since they would have already got value from him, plus they run kolaghan's command, which can just get back their DS (BGx only have Liliana to do so, which is likely to be sideboarded out against us). Thoughtseizes seem good, instead: their biggest use is to get rid of denials so we can combo off or just place an unlife with no worries, on the play they can also trade with their discard spells (we are likely to lose g1, so it's not an unrealistic scenario) if we don't hit an opening leyline. Of course they still run snapcasters, so they will be able eventually to re-cast denials from the gy, but there's not much we can do to avoid that. Another card i wanted to try is Rest in Peace (even if it's unlikely I'll be able to play it in Madrid, due to unified deckbuilding issues), which should be strong against the BGc versions (no delirium, goyfs 0/1 ecc) until they find a pulse/decay, and on the play against grixis (when they're on the play they can still turn 2 tasigur or angler,and at that point it'd be useless pretty much). I haven't find space for that card in my sb tho, do any of you plays it and finds it super strong? Last consideration is about the card I think can give us the better edge against grixis ds, Godhead of Awe. I've always been sceptical about running creatures in my sb, i sometimes played with 2 or 3 grave titans if i expected a field full of jund and abzan, and i once ran 1 of dragonlord dromoka at a GP a couple of years ago (he won me a match against grixis moon, it was amazing ), but besides that, i prefer to use my 15 slots to improve my chance to combo off, instead of trying a backdoor plan. The fact is, grixis shadow is such an unfavorable match up, that i don't think we have the tools to get even close to a 50/50 in g2/3, so our best chance could be to go all in on the godhead plan. That's why i currently run 3 of them in my sb. Grixis has almost no way to deal with him, excluding discard spells (in leyline we trust), basically only 2 burn spells (which they should cut in the mu) or lili's -2 (leyline prevents that too), and it can easly win the game alone, by swinging 2 or 3 times. Stubborn denial doesn't counter it, and the humility effect shuts down their ferocious so their "negates" become force spikes, which allows us to combo off in response if the eventually find an answe for the godhead. I won every game in which i was able to cast it against grixis (BGx versions run pulse and more lilianas of the veil, but it's still a strong side in i think). They might be forced to run back a couple of terminates in g3, which is nice for us (and it's the reason i play 3 of them, along with the facts i need to see it early and i'm more incline to spoils for it).
After this wall of text (i apologize ^^), what are your thoughts on the sideboard plans in the matchup?
Here's my sideboard for the moment. Against DS, you want spot removal like 2 Path or 2 Push as well as some interaction like 2 Thoughtseize to take away the main components of their hands. Timely can become handy in gaining life surely and providing blockers. I'm not 100% sure, but I feel like we need to bring in some fog also. So in total:
+2 Path
+2 Thoughtseize
+2 Fogs
+1 Timely
Now, what are we taking out?
- 1 Pact of Negation
- 1 Laboratory Maniac
- 1 Mystical Teachings
- 1 Pentad Prism
- 1 Lotus Bloom
- 1 Sleight of Hands
- 1 Something of your choice
Stubborn Denial and K-Command are hard for us, so I don't think we need to cut all the Pacts (not a good idea) and we need some velocity, so cutting the slow cards is a good move. I don't want to fully commit to taking out something specifically, so -1 of each artifact seems decent so far and cutting 1 Sleight isn't a big deal either.
In all, the matchup is very poor, but it's the best we can do. Plan for game 1:
1) turn 1-2, set up lands and some artifact storage
2) turn 3 : cantrip into something we miss using 3 lands
3) turn 4: landrop and using our artifact mana to go off as soon as possible
That's in an ideal world without any pressure, but I can't predict how hard it would be for a logner game with pressure from their side.
I like that I have finally seen a full opinion on godhead of awe, I knew it has been mentioned and deck lists have been running them but I have been really sceptical to the idea as nobody really summarised on the card after using it themselves. Is godhead really worth 3 slots in the board? I have 3 but haven't got enough DS in my local meta to warrant me trying them myself.
I currently run 3 paths (recently replaced 3 pushes) I like Ethereal Haze or Darkness over removal if the DS matchup continues climbing in popularity?
Don't forget about the new 1B reanimate card in Hour which will make Path an auto better than Push
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the task spilled over into undeath, he stopped calling it his life's work.
Decks
Standard: GBGB EnergyGB GRGR EnergyGR
Modern: RBUWAd NauseamRBUW GRGR TitanshiftGR UBLUE STEEEEEELU UR Storm U Turbo Turns
I do run 3 godhead in the last couple month now and its just an instant win for 5 mana vs grixis death.
Problem i have with him is, that i aint got 5 mana in time, cant find him with cantrips or he gets thoigzseized. but i think this is true for every other play we could do aswell.
If ur meta is like 18%+ shadow i recommand him.
At the moment i have crusader in mind to help against the cant reach 5 mana problem, but no games at last fnm vs shadow
I've had some similar success myself. After an 0-3 drop a few weeks back at a monthly modern event, I pulled off a top 4(out of 25) showing this past weekend. I don't know what blessing I had on me that weekend, but I managed to run through both a 4C Shadow & Affinity list (Burn and Slivers being my other matchups). Played against Slivers again in quarters (I'd be surprised if I hadn't see a Sun & Moon deck in top 8 as well) and lost out to UWR Midrange/Control in semis.
The deck felt great, other than failing to see Ad Naus in the semis after game 1.
The only real spice I've been running lately is Elspeth in place of Grave Titan. Having an alternate win-con is nice post-board, especially when removal isn't prevalent. Didn't see her during my winning event though.
Went to a 8k tournament in Montreal, but decided to sleeve up Jeskai Draw-Go because Grixis DS and E-Tron were everywhere. Even Affinity were running Thoughtseize in the side. I'd say that a third of the matchups I had were running Thoughtseize and no Ad Nauseam reached more than 2-3 wins max. Meta is not good at the moment. I did poorly with Jeskai, but it felt I could still win.
In the environment actually, if you cannon't interact, you're down. Grixis makes a good policeman for punishing linear strategies that don't interact, that's why big mana decks are not that good in the moment (aside Eldrazi Tron) as well as combo decks in general : Storm, which was the most played a couple of months ago, is falling in popularity and Living End/Viziers Company are good combos because they have board presence as well (and Living End interacts on the land destruction angle). We don't do well because of the discard + counters + clock DS has. Before, BG/x had some disruption, but the clock was slower and we didn't face countermagic in that matchup. Now, it's a 3 in 1 and we can handle 2 of these, but not 3.
So it seems there is a lot of trouble vs DS grixis.
Someone suggested miran crusader. Why not use Auriok Champion? Stop DS, can't be removed even by the list that use bolt, is one mana cheaper and can fit in the burn matchup (yeah I know unlife already kick their asses). Mirran can't kill any of their creatures, the only pro of it is that he can be a win condition.
We can use lingering souls to gain time. 3rd turn or sooner if they discard it.
We must remember that ad nauseam still has a good matchup vs eldrazi tron that is another boogeyman of the format.
I decided to move away from Ad Nauseam yesterday when I sold the deck to play something else. Considering that the last two years have been the best of my Magic life, it is an important decision for me : it is what I have always know and I've always played in every large competitive tournaments I have attended. I have to say that Ad Nauseam is the most fun I ever had and it gave me the best moments also : I met amazing people (heck my first roomate) and I could invest myself in the deck, knowing the ins and outs. I've been so pasionnated about it, I'm known as the ''Ad Nauseam'' player at my LGS, but I need to grow and move forward to improve my skills and playing more interactive decks (UWR Control and Burn namely) are where I am at.
I'm moving away, but maybe I will be back after taking a break from the deck. I started playing Burn, then 3 years later, I'm back to it. So nothing is set in stone, I'll be back somehow. It is the most beautiful deck out there (along Scapeshift to me), so enjoy it my friends and know that I'm always available for questions or discussions!
Looking forward to see you all doing good with the deck,
Decks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo TurnsAggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Great question indeed!
More like, should we split our win-cons between 3 good ones, for 1 of them, then a sudden 4th that has zero upside compared to the others and doesn't work with another half of our combo?
Conflagrate is sweet (everyone forget this one slots into our deck?!), lightning storm is best, lab man solves the corner cases, card being discussed is garbage.
I know the card is garbage, it has been reported only once in a decklist in a league in January 2017 and one in 2016 (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13891&d=282149&f=MO). I wanted to try it : I'm not advocating for it. I know the card is strictly inferior to Lightning Storm which is our go-to win condition and Conflagrate is the alternate for sorcery speed.
I've been playing the deck for almost 3 years in competitive events and am very confortable with a fetchlands / shocklands manabase with Peer / Teachings. Your ''stock list'' idealistic views are really cute and your need to asses your pseudo-wisdom about how the deck should be built is getting old. You can keep to yourself your condenscending comments and your rant : your talk about growing old is juvenile. I'd be more than happy to see you going somewhere else if you're not pleased with how the discussion is going forward on this thread.
In the meantime, I thank all of the others who are participating with constructive criticism, reports and ideas about how the deck should evolve and adapt to the current metagame even though it's not a great environment for us. Metashifting analysis are always welcomed and I enjoy having discussion over our beloved deck with you guys.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Like for me, Lingering Souls is my most played MVP sideboard card but I see nearly nobody else with Ad Nauseam playing the card at all.
And although I do have to agree that Fateful Showdown is pretty terrible (I own 18 foils so trust me I hate saying that) I do think that somewhere there is another win-con out there for us. Those links Bathickey shared a few days ago are the kind of one's I think are a decent shift for us if it is really necessary although I'm not a fan of moving away from the stock list I have ran for the last two and a bit years.
A question I want to ask is Tezzeret's Gambit worth playing? I saw it in a list on mtgtop8 recently and never heard of the card in my life but it seems to have really decent relevance with the proliferate and card drawing. Can give use an extra mana on prisms and can keep a Mine going for longer. (sometimes relevant) This same list has a 1-off Moonring Island which is really strange but gives information... I guess? lol
Decks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo TurnsYour pitch about ''mere optimality'' is pure propaganda : let people play what they want and shove off. You don't have the right nor the autorithy to decide what's right and wrong. You are the one raising dead subjects with your pedantic attitude. We don't need some ''bad content'' rant from you.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
2 Ethereal Haze
2 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
1 Celestial Purge
1 Echoing Truth
1 Timely Reinforcements
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Supreme Verdict
Here's my sideboard for the moment. Against DS, you want spot removal like 2 Path or 2 Push as well as some interaction like 2 Thoughtseize to take away the main components of their hands. Timely can become handy in gaining life surely and providing blockers. I'm not 100% sure, but I feel like we need to bring in some fog also. So in total:
+2 Path
+2 Thoughtseize
+2 Fogs
+1 Timely
Now, what are we taking out?
- 1 Pact of Negation
- 1 Laboratory Maniac
- 1 Mystical Teachings
- 1 Pentad Prism
- 1 Lotus Bloom
- 1 Sleight of Hands
- 1 Something of your choice
Stubborn Denial and K-Command are hard for us, so I don't think we need to cut all the Pacts (not a good idea) and we need some velocity, so cutting the slow cards is a good move. I don't want to fully commit to taking out something specifically, so -1 of each artifact seems decent so far and cutting 1 Sleight isn't a big deal either.
In all, the matchup is very poor, but it's the best we can do. Plan for game 1:
1) turn 1-2, set up lands and some artifact storage
2) turn 3 : cantrip into something we miss using 3 lands
3) turn 4: landrop and using our artifact mana to go off as soon as possible
That's in an ideal world without any pressure, but I can't predict how hard it would be for a logner game with pressure from their side.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
To me, Path hits more things, so it's my go-to spot removal card of choice.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I currently run 3 paths (recently replaced 3 pushes) I like Ethereal Haze or Darkness over removal if the DS matchup continues climbing in popularity?
Don't forget about the new 1B reanimate card in Hour which will make Path an auto better than Push
Decks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo TurnsProblem i have with him is, that i aint got 5 mana in time, cant find him with cantrips or he gets thoigzseized. but i think this is true for every other play we could do aswell.
If ur meta is like 18%+ shadow i recommand him.
At the moment i have crusader in mind to help against the cant reach 5 mana problem, but no games at last fnm vs shadow
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I am interested in wich matchup u played theae tournaments.
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The deck felt great, other than failing to see Ad Naus in the semis after game 1.
The only real spice I've been running lately is Elspeth in place of Grave Titan. Having an alternate win-con is nice post-board, especially when removal isn't prevalent. Didn't see her during my winning event though.
In the environment actually, if you cannon't interact, you're down. Grixis makes a good policeman for punishing linear strategies that don't interact, that's why big mana decks are not that good in the moment (aside Eldrazi Tron) as well as combo decks in general : Storm, which was the most played a couple of months ago, is falling in popularity and Living End/Viziers Company are good combos because they have board presence as well (and Living End interacts on the land destruction angle). We don't do well because of the discard + counters + clock DS has. Before, BG/x had some disruption, but the clock was slower and we didn't face countermagic in that matchup. Now, it's a 3 in 1 and we can handle 2 of these, but not 3.
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Someone suggested miran crusader. Why not use Auriok Champion? Stop DS, can't be removed even by the list that use bolt, is one mana cheaper and can fit in the burn matchup (yeah I know unlife already kick their asses). Mirran can't kill any of their creatures, the only pro of it is that he can be a win condition.
We can use lingering souls to gain time. 3rd turn or sooner if they discard it.
We must remember that ad nauseam still has a good matchup vs eldrazi tron that is another boogeyman of the format.
Decks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo TurnsI decided to move away from Ad Nauseam yesterday when I sold the deck to play something else. Considering that the last two years have been the best of my Magic life, it is an important decision for me : it is what I have always know and I've always played in every large competitive tournaments I have attended. I have to say that Ad Nauseam is the most fun I ever had and it gave me the best moments also : I met amazing people (heck my first roomate) and I could invest myself in the deck, knowing the ins and outs. I've been so pasionnated about it, I'm known as the ''Ad Nauseam'' player at my LGS, but I need to grow and move forward to improve my skills and playing more interactive decks (UWR Control and Burn namely) are where I am at.
I'm moving away, but maybe I will be back after taking a break from the deck. I started playing Burn, then 3 years later, I'm back to it. So nothing is set in stone, I'll be back somehow. It is the most beautiful deck out there (along Scapeshift to me), so enjoy it my friends and know that I'm always available for questions or discussions!
Looking forward to see you all doing good with the deck,
Tom
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Decks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo TurnsDecks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo TurnsDecks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo Turns