i dislike using ramp mana in pentad prism and lotus bloom to cast things like mystic teachings or this epiphany card, as we need that mana for the combo. sooooo, since we're getting our third land drop on time usually, i see 2 being paid into x (typically) to reveal 3 cards off the library. looks weaker than peer through depths.
there are those games that get drawn out too much. i think its worth looking into. if anything its horrible and unplayable BUT it could be good and its worth a look id think
I apologize for being unclear. More or less, I'm asking you to make a case for why the card is good or bad instead of asking us to just tell you because I think that's a better discussion to be having than "I thought about this card once. Tell me if it sucks or not."
If you think it's worth a look, you should be able to explain why. For example, you're saying you're thinking about the card for when games go long. If that's the case, I'm asking you to talk about what you feel this card does better than other currently available late game spells. Are you excited for this card only because it's new and you never thought about the other X Spells in the format, or are you seeing something amazing that other players haven't caught onto yet? Your thoughts are important here.
For what it's worth, my first impression of the card is that I don't like the idea of flipping a bunch of cards but only one combo piece and having it go straight to your graveyard, nor do I like the idea of being in the late game when you've theoretically played enough lands to cast this without spending your one-shot artifact mana and then subsequently flipping up a bunch of lands to go straight to your graveyard, denying you access to enough extra lands to win with a Lightning Storm.
so spoils are coming out. the only card that is sticking out to me so far (as of 3-16-2016) is the new XU spell
Epiphany at the Drownyard
XU
Instant
Reveal the top X plus one cards of your library and separate them into two piles. An opponent chooses one of those piles. Put that pile into your hand and the other into your graveyard.
is this a card worth playtesting?
A card doesn't have to be meh or even good. A card has to be better than existing options.
A good contributor doesn't plain say "I think card X is worth looking into."
A good contributor says : "X card is worth looking into, as a replacement for currently used card Y, notably :
because it's better in situations A and B,
because it fixes issues we have with card Y
because it works better in a Z metagame".
My 50 cents.
It doesn't seem to be better than anything--I'm still more interested in brain in a jar.
This x spell doesn't beat what peer does, and doesn't offer up the explosive power that spoils does. It also is a huge suck on your mana rocks before it gets better (and it still might fail) compared to mystical teachings.
All this deck wants to do is ramp the tiniest amount and find two cards to cast sequentially, raw draw power needs to be busted before it's gonna overtake our more particular options listed above. Ancestral visions probably also doesn't really replace our tutors in the event of an unban, more likely our sleight of hands.
Vessel of Volatility has been spoiled and it seems like it could be a nice upgraded accelerant if we can drop this turn it gives us access to more turn 3 kills. Bloom only comes off suspend on T4.
I think epdt's point is that the color of mana produced does not allow us to cast the spells needed to combo off that turn. Even if you played your third land and then used one land and a SSG to pop the enchantment, there's no way to have the colors of mana necessary to cast both Ad Nauseam AND Angel's Grace for the win. In the same scenario (three lands in play, Pentad Prism with 2 counters instead of new enchantment, Ad Naus, SSG and Grace in hand) you can combo on T3.
so spoils are coming out. the only card that is sticking out to me so far (as of 3-16-2016) is the new XU spell
Epiphany at the Drownyard
XU
Instant
Reveal the top X plus one cards of your library and separate them into two piles. An opponent chooses one of those piles. Put that pile into your hand and the other into your graveyard.
is this a card worth playtesting?
Thought about it, but it didn't seem worth testing as i couldn't think of a situation where it would be better than mystical teachings. Anything less than 4 mana only nets you one card in most situations (or two cards that aren't combo pieces); neither of which are very good and at four or more mana you might as well use mystical teachings to get a guaranteed combo piece. Its very rare that you will need to search for two combo pieces at once, and you will almost never find a situation where an opponent gives you a pile that has both combo pieces in it (the only exception to this would be if it has your only copy of lightning storm, although its unlikely an opponent would do this as there is no way to tell if you use more than one unless they managed to discard the other one,) so the only thing this card does is put more cards into your hand as opposed to better ones. If you really need more cards in hand, Painful Truths is better, and the only situation I could think of using that would be against Jund or Junk decks; so you might as well just use Leyline of Sanctity at that point.
I got excited when I saw Vessel spoiled and after thinking about it here are my thoughts on the card.
You would never run it over pentad prism. It nets you the same mana advantage at the same speed but being harder to use (need R to cast and activate) and not fixing your mana is too much of a downside.
I doubt that it's good enough to warrant compromising your manabase to splash for.
So the situation where I see this card being useful is if you want >4 copies of pentad prism and are already splashing red. I mentioned that I looked into this a few pages ago and noteworthy cards that splashing red gives you access to are faithless looting, izzet charm and manamorphose. I can't speak on whether or not this sort of shell might be better or worse than existing versions of the deck (my guess is worse) but I think it could be useful testing out.
Ok, so I am going to run this in the MOCS tomorrow. I am going to take Patrician's Scorn out of the sideboard because it is bugged and can not be played for free. I figure I can find something better to put in. Any suggestions?
yeah.. you just sold me on the wall. Didn't think of how good it would be against eldrazi.
Although on second thought.. I have been getting decent results against eldrazi siding in Leylines. Most of the time, I am actually faster than them but Thought-Knot Seer ruins my plans. I did grab two to put aside.
I like Drown because it is good against the Chord of Calling decks.
Slaughter Games has been decent against other combo decks and the mirror. Will be leaving it in for now.
I put path in place of one of the 3 Ethereal Daze I was running as it often works as well since it is usually used against 1 infect creature plus it can disrupt creature decks like the same Chord decks.
I'm guessing Spellskite is for the infect matchup, but for now I'm testing Wall of Shards in its place. Maindeck Laboratory Maniac gives you a game 1 out to the CoCo-Chord decks' infinite lifegain plan. We've also seen an uptick in UW control since the start of Eldrazi Winter and they run some mainboard cards that can disrupt the Lightning Storm win. Just in the last two weeks I've had both Runed Halo naming Lightning Storm and Story Circle naming red cast against me by UW control (I won both of those games by having Labman main--but I run the Wish version), not to mention the ever present Leyline of Sanctity.
I'm not saying it's always the right move in the Spoils version of the deck, but those could be the reasons. For what it's worth, Daniel Grafensteiner ran a maindeck Labman in his 7-3 Pro-Tour Oath list.
I'm guessing Spellskite is for the infect matchup, but for now I'm testing Wall of Shards in its place. Maindeck Laboratory Maniac gives you a game 1 out to the CoCo-Chord decks' infinite lifegain plan. We've also seen an uptick in UW control since the start of Eldrazi Winter and they run some mainboard cards that can disrupt the Lightning Storm win. Just in the last two weeks I've had both Runed Halo naming Lightning Storm and Story Circle naming red cast against me by UW control (I won both of those games by having Labman main--but I run the Wish version), not to mention the ever present Leyline of Sanctity.
I'm not saying it's always the right move in the Spoils version of the deck, but those could be the reasons. For what it's worth, Daniel Grafensteiner ran a maindeck Labman in his 7-3 Pro-Tour Oath list.
I see; i've also seen people running drown in sorrow, is this really the best answer we have against hatebear decks?
I see; i've also seen people running drown in sorrow, is this really the best answer we have against hatebear decks?
There's just not a lot of options for sweepers in our colors. Technically the deck can cast Supreme Verdict, but 4 mana is usually too late, and the spoils version prioritizes B producing lands over W. (This is also why you see more Darkness in the sideboard instead of Ethereal Haze.)
As a Wish player, I run Firespout, and it has been pretty good to me--particularly against Affinity.
So I won my FNM this week playing the Spoils version of the deck It is a blast to play and each game always felt great! Here's a brief round up of what I played against.
Round 1: UB Mill
Game 1 - Combo off turn 4.
Game 2 - I side in Conflagrate and Leylines. There was an interesting play where he Surgical extractions my Ad Nauseam, which I counter with Pact but then he has another one! I go for the ape beatdown but it gets path to exiled so I move on to the next game.
Game 3 - Open with Leyline and he can't do anything. Win soon after.
Round 2 - Abzan Coco/Chord
Game 1- turn 4/5 combo
Game 2 - I sided in Lab man and some removal. He hits with some dudes and eventually gains infinite life. I have spoils and grace in hand. I decided to Spoils naming Ad Nauseam as I'm dead next turn. I managed to find it within the top 5-10 cards and combo off with Lab man for the win. Interestingly, the deck ran Forgetender main.
Round 3 - Coco/chord
Game 1 - Manage to open with a bloom and set up the combo for turn 4.
Game 2 - Stuck on lands and he gets Eternal Witness/Fulminator mage going. Sin Collector takes Ad Nauseam away. He drops the rule of law eidolon after I tap out for prism. I survive a few more turns and eventually assemble grace/dan but cant find removal for his guy! I have less than ten life and one turn before I lose so need to spoils for slaughter pact but it wasn't there so I lose.
Game 3- I open on the play and see the God hand. Land into Prism into combo!
Round 4 - Coco/Chord
Game 1 - Another chord deck! I open up with a hand of Unlife and Spoils. I eventually spoils for Ad Nauseam and go off killing him with storm. He doesn't think that I have enough lands to pitch but I point out that each land is worth two counters
Game 2- Mull to 5 and keep a hand with two lands and some scry effects. Eventually stall with Unlife whilst he gains infinite life. Meanwhile, I played a prism and drew some lands including a spoils. I have to go for it so Spoils naming Ad Nauseam and play it on the same turn using two apes. Draw whole deck and play the land for the turn to cast Lab man with the last ape and one counter from prism, then use the remaining counter to Visions for the win!
All in all, a great tournament. The spoils version is incredibly fun to play and I suggest you try it if you haven't already I didn't have the fogs so used a couple of dismember in the sb which worked well. I'll try to post my list later
Going in with the wish version. Will post play by play later tonight.
Finally won against infect last night... crazy G1 play...
2 lotus on opening hand. Turn 3 he beats me down to 7 infect. Turn 4 he only hits for 2 so I'm at 9... on my turn I have 2 lotus and 4 lands foe a total of 10 mana and only ad nauseam in hand. I play ad nauseam unprotected and found another ad nauseam, angels grace and a Simian for the win all under 8 cards... this was such a crazy play
G2 lost. Then game 3 I play Deflecting palm on T2 which he dispelled but next turn I found spellskite so I won T5.
Terrible lost against a 6000$ UR delver deck. He had all foil cards... only expedition lands, foiled tarmos, double foiled delver (didn't want to flip em so he had 2 playset) Won G1 then game 2 I had 5 lands and 1 Simian down to 1 life, he has light bolt in hand. I tap my 5 mana... cast ad nauseam. Then scoop cuz I'm a retard and had angels grace and Simian in hand... how lame is this...
Heading to Quebec City as I write this, hoping to win something. I'm expecting to face lots of UW control and maybe some few eldrazi and Abzan company. This seams to be the answer people are giving to eldrazi winter so far but it's all good for us so ttyl.
Hello everyone, just placed 2nd in a GPT today with Wish Nauseam so I thought I'd put up a tournament report on how it went.
Round 1 - Merfolk
G1 - Combo off turn 5/6 through 2 cursecatchers and not much else.
G2 - Same with game1 but cast Ad Nauseam with Bring to Light.
Side: -Serum Visions +Slaughter Pact
2-0
Round 2 - Living End
G1 - Slowly building and Pact his Living End off Violent Outburst and won on upkeep.
G2 - Same as before but Living End resolved but with only 2 creatures in grave and Unlife on board. Wish to Bring to Ad Nauseam.
Side: None
2-0
Round 3 - Abzan Collected Combo
G1 - Really close game Wishing for Firespout and cleaning their board and then Pacting their Chord when they stabilized and winning next turn.
G2 - Tried to get Forgetender to stop me but Slaughter Pact got it and was no stopping it.
Side: -Serum Visions +Slaughter Pact
2-0
Round 4 - Infect
Tournament was only 4 rounds and we were both undefeated at 3-0 and drew into top 8.
Top 8:
Round 5 - Abzan Collected Combo
Same guy as round 3, who is a friend of mine.
G1 - Same as earlier, going into combo with Bring to Light.
G2 - They chord into Redcap and I can't stop the damage.
G3 - Real stressful game that ends with Bring to Light getting there.
Side: -Serum Visions +Slaughter Pact
4-0
Round 6 - Zoo
G1 - Kept a slow hand and never saw Unlife to buy me enough turns to combo.
G2 - Natural turn 3 combo with no disruption. Living the dream.
G3 - Get hit pretty hard go dangerously low with Eidolon out. Eventually combo with Angel's Grace and Ad Nauseam.
Side: -Serum Visions -Sleight of Hand -2 Pact of Negation +3 Wall of Shards +Slaughter Pact
Round 7 - Infect
We end up splitting as he is actually going to the GP for the event and I get more store credit and don't have to play against Infect, so I'm fine with it.
All in all it was a pretty good day. The deck was super consistent and really happy with how it came to be. No real problem with the deck.
If you think it's worth a look, you should be able to explain why. For example, you're saying you're thinking about the card for when games go long. If that's the case, I'm asking you to talk about what you feel this card does better than other currently available late game spells. Are you excited for this card only because it's new and you never thought about the other X Spells in the format, or are you seeing something amazing that other players haven't caught onto yet? Your thoughts are important here.
For what it's worth, my first impression of the card is that I don't like the idea of flipping a bunch of cards but only one combo piece and having it go straight to your graveyard, nor do I like the idea of being in the late game when you've theoretically played enough lands to cast this without spending your one-shot artifact mana and then subsequently flipping up a bunch of lands to go straight to your graveyard, denying you access to enough extra lands to win with a Lightning Storm.
It doesn't seem to be better than anything--I'm still more interested in brain in a jar.
This x spell doesn't beat what peer does, and doesn't offer up the explosive power that spoils does. It also is a huge suck on your mana rocks before it gets better (and it still might fail) compared to mystical teachings.
All this deck wants to do is ramp the tiniest amount and find two cards to cast sequentially, raw draw power needs to be busted before it's gonna overtake our more particular options listed above. Ancestral visions probably also doesn't really replace our tutors in the event of an unban, more likely our sleight of hands.
Thought about it, but it didn't seem worth testing as i couldn't think of a situation where it would be better than mystical teachings. Anything less than 4 mana only nets you one card in most situations (or two cards that aren't combo pieces); neither of which are very good and at four or more mana you might as well use mystical teachings to get a guaranteed combo piece. Its very rare that you will need to search for two combo pieces at once, and you will almost never find a situation where an opponent gives you a pile that has both combo pieces in it (the only exception to this would be if it has your only copy of lightning storm, although its unlikely an opponent would do this as there is no way to tell if you use more than one unless they managed to discard the other one,) so the only thing this card does is put more cards into your hand as opposed to better ones. If you really need more cards in hand, Painful Truths is better, and the only situation I could think of using that would be against Jund or Junk decks; so you might as well just use Leyline of Sanctity at that point.
Here is my current sideboard:
I am leaning towards a 4th Leyline of Sanctity.
I am playing a typical spoils list, with 2 Pact of Negation and 1 Slaughter Pact main deck.
Has anyone else encountered the bug where the game gives control of Lighting Storm to your opponent without them activating it?
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Although on second thought.. I have been getting decent results against eldrazi siding in Leylines. Most of the time, I am actually faster than them but Thought-Knot Seer ruins my plans. I did grab two to put aside.
I like Drown because it is good against the Chord of Calling decks.
Slaughter Games has been decent against other combo decks and the mirror. Will be leaving it in for now.
I put path in place of one of the 3 Ethereal Daze I was running as it often works as well since it is usually used against 1 infect creature plus it can disrupt creature decks like the same Chord decks.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
I'm guessing Spellskite is for the infect matchup, but for now I'm testing Wall of Shards in its place. Maindeck Laboratory Maniac gives you a game 1 out to the CoCo-Chord decks' infinite lifegain plan. We've also seen an uptick in UW control since the start of Eldrazi Winter and they run some mainboard cards that can disrupt the Lightning Storm win. Just in the last two weeks I've had both Runed Halo naming Lightning Storm and Story Circle naming red cast against me by UW control (I won both of those games by having Labman main--but I run the Wish version), not to mention the ever present Leyline of Sanctity.
I'm not saying it's always the right move in the Spoils version of the deck, but those could be the reasons. For what it's worth, Daniel Grafensteiner ran a maindeck Labman in his 7-3 Pro-Tour Oath list.
I see; i've also seen people running drown in sorrow, is this really the best answer we have against hatebear decks?
There's just not a lot of options for sweepers in our colors. Technically the deck can cast Supreme Verdict, but 4 mana is usually too late, and the spoils version prioritizes B producing lands over W. (This is also why you see more Darkness in the sideboard instead of Ethereal Haze.)
As a Wish player, I run Firespout, and it has been pretty good to me--particularly against Affinity.
So I won my FNM this week playing the Spoils version of the deck It is a blast to play and each game always felt great! Here's a brief round up of what I played against.
Round 1: UB Mill
Game 1 - Combo off turn 4.
Game 2 - I side in Conflagrate and Leylines. There was an interesting play where he Surgical extractions my Ad Nauseam, which I counter with Pact but then he has another one! I go for the ape beatdown but it gets path to exiled so I move on to the next game.
Game 3 - Open with Leyline and he can't do anything. Win soon after.
Round 2 - Abzan Coco/Chord
Game 1- turn 4/5 combo
Game 2 - I sided in Lab man and some removal. He hits with some dudes and eventually gains infinite life. I have spoils and grace in hand. I decided to Spoils naming Ad Nauseam as I'm dead next turn. I managed to find it within the top 5-10 cards and combo off with Lab man for the win. Interestingly, the deck ran Forgetender main.
Round 3 - Coco/chord
Game 1 - Manage to open with a bloom and set up the combo for turn 4.
Game 2 - Stuck on lands and he gets Eternal Witness/Fulminator mage going. Sin Collector takes Ad Nauseam away. He drops the rule of law eidolon after I tap out for prism. I survive a few more turns and eventually assemble grace/dan but cant find removal for his guy! I have less than ten life and one turn before I lose so need to spoils for slaughter pact but it wasn't there so I lose.
Game 3- I open on the play and see the God hand. Land into Prism into combo!
Round 4 - Coco/Chord
Game 1 - Another chord deck! I open up with a hand of Unlife and Spoils. I eventually spoils for Ad Nauseam and go off killing him with storm. He doesn't think that I have enough lands to pitch but I point out that each land is worth two counters
Game 2- Mull to 5 and keep a hand with two lands and some scry effects. Eventually stall with Unlife whilst he gains infinite life. Meanwhile, I played a prism and drew some lands including a spoils. I have to go for it so Spoils naming Ad Nauseam and play it on the same turn using two apes. Draw whole deck and play the land for the turn to cast Lab man with the last ape and one counter from prism, then use the remaining counter to Visions for the win!
All in all, a great tournament. The spoils version is incredibly fun to play and I suggest you try it if you haven't already I didn't have the fogs so used a couple of dismember in the sb which worked well. I'll try to post my list later
Cheers,
Jaffa
Going in with the wish version. Will post play by play later tonight.
Finally won against infect last night... crazy G1 play...
2 lotus on opening hand. Turn 3 he beats me down to 7 infect. Turn 4 he only hits for 2 so I'm at 9... on my turn I have 2 lotus and 4 lands foe a total of 10 mana and only ad nauseam in hand. I play ad nauseam unprotected and found another ad nauseam, angels grace and a Simian for the win all under 8 cards... this was such a crazy play
G2 lost. Then game 3 I play Deflecting palm on T2 which he dispelled but next turn I found spellskite so I won T5.
Terrible lost against a 6000$ UR delver deck. He had all foil cards... only expedition lands, foiled tarmos, double foiled delver (didn't want to flip em so he had 2 playset) Won G1 then game 2 I had 5 lands and 1 Simian down to 1 life, he has light bolt in hand. I tap my 5 mana... cast ad nauseam. Then scoop cuz I'm a retard and had angels grace and Simian in hand... how lame is this...
Heading to Quebec City as I write this, hoping to win something. I'm expecting to face lots of UW control and maybe some few eldrazi and Abzan company. This seams to be the answer people are giving to eldrazi winter so far but it's all good for us so ttyl.
Round 1 - Merfolk
G1 - Combo off turn 5/6 through 2 cursecatchers and not much else.
G2 - Same with game1 but cast Ad Nauseam with Bring to Light.
Side: -Serum Visions +Slaughter Pact
2-0
Round 2 - Living End
G1 - Slowly building and Pact his Living End off Violent Outburst and won on upkeep.
G2 - Same as before but Living End resolved but with only 2 creatures in grave and Unlife on board. Wish to Bring to Ad Nauseam.
Side: None
2-0
Round 3 - Abzan Collected Combo
G1 - Really close game Wishing for Firespout and cleaning their board and then Pacting their Chord when they stabilized and winning next turn.
G2 - Tried to get Forgetender to stop me but Slaughter Pact got it and was no stopping it.
Side: -Serum Visions +Slaughter Pact
2-0
Round 4 - Infect
Tournament was only 4 rounds and we were both undefeated at 3-0 and drew into top 8.
Top 8:
Round 5 - Abzan Collected Combo
Same guy as round 3, who is a friend of mine.
G1 - Same as earlier, going into combo with Bring to Light.
G2 - They chord into Redcap and I can't stop the damage.
G3 - Real stressful game that ends with Bring to Light getting there.
Side: -Serum Visions +Slaughter Pact
4-0
Round 6 - Zoo
G1 - Kept a slow hand and never saw Unlife to buy me enough turns to combo.
G2 - Natural turn 3 combo with no disruption. Living the dream.
G3 - Get hit pretty hard go dangerously low with Eidolon out. Eventually combo with Angel's Grace and Ad Nauseam.
Side: -Serum Visions -Sleight of Hand -2 Pact of Negation +3 Wall of Shards +Slaughter Pact
Round 7 - Infect
We end up splitting as he is actually going to the GP for the event and I get more store credit and don't have to play against Infect, so I'm fine with it.
All in all it was a pretty good day. The deck was super consistent and really happy with how it came to be. No real problem with the deck.
4 Ad Nauseam
4 Angel's Grace
4 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Lightning Storm
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Pact of Negation
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Mana Confluence
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Wall of Shards
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Firespout
1 Wear // Tear
1 Bring to Light
1 Wargate
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Vexing Shusher