For everyone looking for a primer, here's the updated RUG Scapeshift primer from a few pages back in this thread. It includes information on both Cryptic- and TitanShift versions of the deck, though it's not exhaustive.
Here's a pretty stock Titanshift list that did well on MTGO recently: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1183372 (Some people run 3 Prismatic Omen instead of 2 in the main, though.) You can click on the "From the Scapeshift Archetype" link below the "More Decks" heading to see a bunch more deck lists at a glance.
Obviously there's an argument to be made for swapping Pyroclasm out of the main in favor of either Firespout, Anger of the Gods or a mix of all three due to the return of Zoo to the meta.
One thing to note about the land base, is that you want to pack more basic mountains, either 5 or 6, and typically you pack between 3-4 Valakut in a Primetime list instead of the 2-3 you see in the CrypticShift version. Also, without the need for triple blue to cast Cryptic Command, very few Titanshift lists will pack filter lands like Flooded Grove.
This is a good post over on Reddit (Spikes) about scapeshift. The OP is not super helpful but read some of the responses further down in thread for lists. One of the posters gives a very quick but thorough overview of why they run Titanshift along with card choices and land base breakdown.
Finally, for those of you who have Star City Premium access, Ari Lax did a series of videos with TitanShift last month that help to show off the different lines of play and the versatility and power of Primetime and Valakut together.
GPT didn't go quite as I imagined. It was just a little dinky 8 man tournament (the weather sucked today so that might account for something). Finished 1-2, I didn't really take detailed notes but just a quick recap from memory. For what it's worth, my maindeck was the same as the list above, my sideboard was this:
Game One: That Firespout is a hell of a card. I had two and they saved my ass because I ended the game on 5 life. Izzet Charm was also clutch, as I was able to counter a Boros Charm that he cast trying to make his swarm indestructible. Prime Time finished him off.
Game Two: Firespout to the rescue again. Also, Obstinate Baloth is faaaaantastic against Small Zoo. I was able to hold him off long enough to cast the fatal Scapeshift.
(1-0, 2-0)
Round Two: U/W/R Control
Game One: I was able to stick a Prismatic Omen early and drew into two Valakuts. This is the only time I've actually won a game without resolving a Titan or a Scapeshift. I just dropped lands burned him for 6 each time
Game Two: I made a stupid misplay that cost me the game. I was at 5 life and sunk two life into Boseiju in order to make my Scapeshift uncountable. With four mana open from him, he cast Lightning Helix and then Mana Leaked my attempt to Remand the Helix. Super irritating, but what are you gonna do. Definitely a learning experience, I considered the possiblity that he had a burn spell but sometimes you just gotta go for it when you're low on life.
Game Three: I actually ramped pretty well in the beginning, hitting 7 land with two Scapeshifts in my hand early on. He had also missed a land drop so he was sitting on three open mana so I decided to jam a Scapeshift into him just to see what happened. Bam, Aven Mindcensor. Stupid bird wizard. The game went downhill from there when he dropped a Geist and started beating on me. I actually had a chance to win one turn late in the game, he tapped out to attack me with Colonnade, I had a Valakut and a Prismatic Omen in play. I sac'ed my STE at the end of his turn and if I could've hit a basic land in the top 4 cards of my library, I could've burned out the Mindcensor and cast Scapeshift. Alas, it was not meant to be.
(1-1, 3-2)
Round Three: Tron
Game One: My opponent was on the play. He got turn 3 tron into Karn. Gross.
Game Two: Opponent mulled down to 5 and didn't draw very well. Neither did I for that matter but I was able to kill him with Titan. The two damage Destructive Revelry did when I blew up an Oblivion Stone also turned out to be super relevant in that game.
Game Three: My opponent was on the play. He got turn 3 tron into Karn. Sometimes it's just not your day.
(1-2, 4-4)
Overall I'm happy with the list even though the results weren't there today. One match loss was my own fault and was a learning experience, the other was just a faster ramp deck doing what it does best. Hard to win if your opponent has the nuts, just gotta tip your cap and move on. Relic in the sideboard was kinda a turd of a card, if anything I'd drop it and add back Sowing Salt, but in the games I lost to tron, Sowing Salt wouldn't have done jack squat even if I had it in my opening hand. I'm gonna keep it in there for now since it has so many applications and Sowing Salt is really only good against Tron or possibly the mirror, but if the meta isn't suddenly flooded with graveyard based strategies, it's gonna be first on the chopping block.
I actually think it is a very good idea to contact the mods, but we shouldn't spam them. Someone make a formal request or something like that. Perhaps we should wait a week or so to remake this thread post-banning (if anything changes at all) after figuring the metagame out so we can talk about matchups in the primer?
Also, thanks for the results.
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Modern WUB Ad Nauseam WUR Control BRG Top Control Commander U Barrin WUB Sen Triplets
I'd up the number of Sakura-Tribe Elders to 4 and probably cut a Farseek. That little guy is seriously the best ramp spell in the deck because of his chump block ability. I've found that to be way more important most of the time than being able to fetch up a shockland. 11 total mountains might also be a little low, maybe cut a Valakut for a Steam Vents?
I actually cut the tribe elder because Shadow of Doubt was blowing me out some games, and he more than likely feeds tarmo more. I rather spend my turn 2 farseeking a shock, rather than blocking. All a matter of playstyle. Honestly I've never had a problem with the number of mountains, most of the time it's because I run 3 Prismatic Omen and people just scoop before checking? Day 2 of gp Detroit I won without enough lands to fetch off Scapeshift, now that doesn't mean that I shouldn't run another...but I also have had the fourth valakut matter against rg tron where they bring in ghost quarters
Yay cool, since there's demand for my updated primer I will message a mod to have it on the front page. I'll then update it to reflect the latest changes to the meta, new cards, etc.
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Modern:
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
I see alot of Obstinate Baloths in these lists. If, and this if a big if, Liliana sees less play, would Tragtusk be a decent replacement? This deck ramps so quickly, and Thrag is a monster against aggro/burn.
I see alot of Obstinate Baloths in these lists. If, and this if a big if, Liliana sees less play, would Tragtusk be a decent replacement? This deck ramps so quickly, and Thrag is a monster against aggro/burn.
Thrag's problem is he dies to Lightning Bolt/Helix and a single swing from a Nacatl wherease Baloth does not. I'd still imagine Baloth would be the choice against Zoo and Burn.
Kinda intrigued about the Thragtusk in the side as it could be good. A hand with search and farseek/tribe elder, big boy Thrag comes down T3. T4 with only 1 ramp
Exiling Thragtusk will still net you a 3/3
"When Thragtusk leaves the battlefield, put a 3/3 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield."
It doesn't matter where he goes, if its not the battlefield then the token is yours
Has anyone tested Kiora, the Crashing Wave, in this deck? Could work as extra explores, and if anything else fails..monster Kraken attack.
Yeah it has been discussed in previous posts. Explore is just not as good as Farseek and Sakura-Tribe Elder, and can be clunky in your hand. Kiora is that, with a cost of 4. Plus in this format filled with twin, pod, and Tron not holding up the 4 mana for cryptic, remand, charm etc can just loose you the game. Against other matchups it's way to slow. Jund would just laugh at you when you you play t3 Kiora, and if you play it against affinity/zoo you are dead.
Explore might be good if you ran cards like mulch or Life from the Loam as you would always have that extra land in hand.
Has anyone tested Kiora, the Crashing Wave, in this deck? Could work as extra explores, and if anything else fails..monster Kraken attack.
I'm pretty sure Kiora was discussed a few pages back and the general consensus was that it was not something this deck wanted to be spending 4 mana on.
This is the latest version of the deck I'm running. It feels pretty stock to me, though I would be interested in any feedback. I like both Anger main and Engineered Explosives in the side as a way to deal with Zoo. Explosives set to 1 wipes out all manner of Nactl, Kird Ape, Goblin Guides and Experiment Ones.
My biggest questions are if Izzet Charm is still good enough as a 4-of in the main in this new zoo world, and whether there shouldn't be room for Courser of Kruphix somewhere in the 75.
Anyone have thoughts on the Fae match up? Been playing online with updated banned list rules, and after 30 matches, its been rather rough. Seems like game one is a toss up, while g2/3 they become just overly reliant on counter spells and things start to get out of hand trying to resolve things.
Edit: I am playing the RuG build, not that titanshift build that a lot of ppl have listed the last few posts.
Anyone have thoughts on the Fae match up? Been playing online with updated banned list rules, and after 30 matches, its been rather rough. Seems like game one is a toss up, while g2/3 they become just overly reliant on counter spells and things start to get out of hand trying to resolve things.
Edit: I am playing the RuG build, not that titanshift build that a lot of ppl have listed the last few posts.
Yeah, I play both of those. Was looking others in depth thought on the conversation. Obviously, we haven't had the usual large paper event to "gauge" the format off of, but it doesn't hurt to practice and toss around ideas. Thank for the insights.
The main things coming out of the Fae that I have been seeing is Mana Leak, Flashfreeze, Tectonic Edge and Cryptic Command. The last being the least utilized, based off my experiences, purely due to the lack of ramp effects. Seems like they can get down and put early pressure on while continuing to keep things in check, and then sit back and ride things to victory.
I have also noted, that recently the online scapeshift decks have been running no sleight of hand or serum visions, but in turn more izzet charm. Think this trend will continue, or will the clause of noncreature make it take a backseat to something else? I am currently running 3 serum visions in my main, as I like the option to dig.
I'm not sure I would move away from Prismatic Omen. More than speed you up a turn, it also allows for other lines of play and ways to kill our opponent. For instance, with a prismatic omen and a Valakut already in play, you can search up two more Valakuts when casting Primeval Titan, those will see themselves as mountains as will the Valakut already in play, because of the omen, and each will trigger twice dealing 18 to our opponent without ever having to find or cast scapeshift.
I, too, think the flex spot might be Izzet Charm, but it's our only card draw outside of Remand in the Titanshift build, which is hard to give up. Maybe the best thing to do is a mix of all three? In the list I posted above, I could drop 1 Omen and 2 Izzet Charm to add 3 Lightning Bolts. That gives us a broader range of options, but lowers the chance we'll see each.
It's just going to take more testing to find the right answers, I think.
Where have you seen these lists? Is this in your local meta or on MTGO?
I'm pretty sure that the CrypticShift version of the deck used to regularly run 2-3 Inferno Titans in the SB to shore up the aggro matchup, but I really haven't seen as many running them since last summer. I don't know that I've ever seen a TitanShift build running both Primeval and Inferno in the 75 -- so I don't know if it's ever a question of swapping out titans.
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http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/proven-modern/220244-rug-scapeshift?comment=558
Here's a pretty stock Titanshift list that did well on MTGO recently: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1183372 (Some people run 3 Prismatic Omen instead of 2 in the main, though.) You can click on the "From the Scapeshift Archetype" link below the "More Decks" heading to see a bunch more deck lists at a glance.
Obviously there's an argument to be made for swapping Pyroclasm out of the main in favor of either Firespout, Anger of the Gods or a mix of all three due to the return of Zoo to the meta.
One thing to note about the land base, is that you want to pack more basic mountains, either 5 or 6, and typically you pack between 3-4 Valakut in a Primetime list instead of the 2-3 you see in the CrypticShift version. Also, without the need for triple blue to cast Cryptic Command, very few Titanshift lists will pack filter lands like Flooded Grove.
This is a good post over on Reddit (Spikes) about scapeshift. The OP is not super helpful but read some of the responses further down in thread for lists. One of the posters gives a very quick but thorough overview of why they run Titanshift along with card choices and land base breakdown.
Here it is: http://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/1uflx3/rug_scapeshift_a_first_draft/
Finally, for those of you who have Star City Premium access, Ari Lax did a series of videos with TitanShift last month that help to show off the different lines of play and the versatility and power of Primetime and Valakut together.
Here's the Premium Article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27771_Scapeshift-In-Modern.html
GPT didn't go quite as I imagined. It was just a little dinky 8 man tournament (the weather sucked today so that might account for something). Finished 1-2, I didn't really take detailed notes but just a quick recap from memory. For what it's worth, my maindeck was the same as the list above, my sideboard was this:
4x Obstinate Baloth
2x Spellskite
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Combust
2x Destructive Revelry
Round One: Small Zoo
Game One: That Firespout is a hell of a card. I had two and they saved my ass because I ended the game on 5 life. Izzet Charm was also clutch, as I was able to counter a Boros Charm that he cast trying to make his swarm indestructible. Prime Time finished him off.
Game Two: Firespout to the rescue again. Also, Obstinate Baloth is faaaaantastic against Small Zoo. I was able to hold him off long enough to cast the fatal Scapeshift.
(1-0, 2-0)
Round Two: U/W/R Control
Game One: I was able to stick a Prismatic Omen early and drew into two Valakuts. This is the only time I've actually won a game without resolving a Titan or a Scapeshift. I just dropped lands burned him for 6 each time
Game Two: I made a stupid misplay that cost me the game. I was at 5 life and sunk two life into Boseiju in order to make my Scapeshift uncountable. With four mana open from him, he cast Lightning Helix and then Mana Leaked my attempt to Remand the Helix. Super irritating, but what are you gonna do. Definitely a learning experience, I considered the possiblity that he had a burn spell but sometimes you just gotta go for it when you're low on life.
Game Three: I actually ramped pretty well in the beginning, hitting 7 land with two Scapeshifts in my hand early on. He had also missed a land drop so he was sitting on three open mana so I decided to jam a Scapeshift into him just to see what happened. Bam, Aven Mindcensor. Stupid bird wizard. The game went downhill from there when he dropped a Geist and started beating on me. I actually had a chance to win one turn late in the game, he tapped out to attack me with Colonnade, I had a Valakut and a Prismatic Omen in play. I sac'ed my STE at the end of his turn and if I could've hit a basic land in the top 4 cards of my library, I could've burned out the Mindcensor and cast Scapeshift. Alas, it was not meant to be.
(1-1, 3-2)
Round Three: Tron
Game One: My opponent was on the play. He got turn 3 tron into Karn. Gross.
Game Two: Opponent mulled down to 5 and didn't draw very well. Neither did I for that matter but I was able to kill him with Titan. The two damage Destructive Revelry did when I blew up an Oblivion Stone also turned out to be super relevant in that game.
Game Three: My opponent was on the play. He got turn 3 tron into Karn. Sometimes it's just not your day.
(1-2, 4-4)
Overall I'm happy with the list even though the results weren't there today. One match loss was my own fault and was a learning experience, the other was just a faster ramp deck doing what it does best. Hard to win if your opponent has the nuts, just gotta tip your cap and move on. Relic in the sideboard was kinda a turd of a card, if anything I'd drop it and add back Sowing Salt, but in the games I lost to tron, Sowing Salt wouldn't have done jack squat even if I had it in my opening hand. I'm gonna keep it in there for now since it has so many applications and Sowing Salt is really only good against Tron or possibly the mirror, but if the meta isn't suddenly flooded with graveyard based strategies, it's gonna be first on the chopping block.
Also, thanks for the results.
WUB Ad Nauseam
WUR Control
BRG Top Control
Commander
U Barrin
WUB Sen Triplets
1 Island
3 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
4 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Farseek
3 Prismatic Omen
4 Remand
4 Izzet Charm
4 Scapeshift
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Obstinate Baloth
1 Spellskite
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Back to Nature
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Sowing Salts
1 Relic of Progenitus
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
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Thrag's problem is he dies to Lightning Bolt/Helix and a single swing from a Nacatl wherease Baloth does not. I'd still imagine Baloth would be the choice against Zoo and Burn.
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Exiling Thragtusk will still net you a 3/3
"When Thragtusk leaves the battlefield, put a 3/3 green Beast creature token onto the battlefield."
It doesn't matter where he goes, if its not the battlefield then the token is yours
Yeah it has been discussed in previous posts. Explore is just not as good as Farseek and Sakura-Tribe Elder, and can be clunky in your hand. Kiora is that, with a cost of 4. Plus in this format filled with twin, pod, and Tron not holding up the 4 mana for cryptic, remand, charm etc can just loose you the game. Against other matchups it's way to slow. Jund would just laugh at you when you you play t3 Kiora, and if you play it against affinity/zoo you are dead.
Explore might be good if you ran cards like mulch or Life from the Loam as you would always have that extra land in hand.
I'm pretty sure Kiora was discussed a few pages back and the general consensus was that it was not something this deck wanted to be spending 4 mana on.
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Primeval Titan
Spells:26
3 Farseek
4 Izzet Charm
3 Prismatic Omen
4 Remand
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Scapeshift
1 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
6 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
3 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Back to Nature
2 Spellskite
4 Obstinate Baloth
This is the latest version of the deck I'm running. It feels pretty stock to me, though I would be interested in any feedback. I like both Anger main and Engineered Explosives in the side as a way to deal with Zoo. Explosives set to 1 wipes out all manner of Nactl, Kird Ape, Goblin Guides and Experiment Ones.
My biggest questions are if Izzet Charm is still good enough as a 4-of in the main in this new zoo world, and whether there shouldn't be room for Courser of Kruphix somewhere in the 75.
Edit: I am playing the RuG build, not that titanshift build that a lot of ppl have listed the last few posts.
So you are playing Crypticshift? Do you have anti-counters side? IE Boseiju, Who Shelters All, or Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
The main things coming out of the Fae that I have been seeing is Mana Leak, Flashfreeze, Tectonic Edge and Cryptic Command. The last being the least utilized, based off my experiences, purely due to the lack of ramp effects. Seems like they can get down and put early pressure on while continuing to keep things in check, and then sit back and ride things to victory.
I have also noted, that recently the online scapeshift decks have been running no sleight of hand or serum visions, but in turn more izzet charm. Think this trend will continue, or will the clause of noncreature make it take a backseat to something else? I am currently running 3 serum visions in my main, as I like the option to dig.
I, too, think the flex spot might be Izzet Charm, but it's our only card draw outside of Remand in the Titanshift build, which is hard to give up. Maybe the best thing to do is a mix of all three? In the list I posted above, I could drop 1 Omen and 2 Izzet Charm to add 3 Lightning Bolts. That gives us a broader range of options, but lowers the chance we'll see each.
It's just going to take more testing to find the right answers, I think.
I'm pretty sure that the CrypticShift version of the deck used to regularly run 2-3 Inferno Titans in the SB to shore up the aggro matchup, but I really haven't seen as many running them since last summer. I don't know that I've ever seen a TitanShift build running both Primeval and Inferno in the 75 -- so I don't know if it's ever a question of swapping out titans.