Maybe we can just jam all 4 bolts and 4 Sweltering Suns now alongside Jace (and/or some repeal?). If we can protect him then we are going win through either his ult or drawing 3 cards. He would let us brainstorm those cards away if we they don't have creatures anyway. It gives another way to close out the game, and playing him on T3 sounds insane. With BBE we will see more threats that die to Sweltering Suns. I'm definitely going to give it a try.
It could be pretty similar to Dig Through Time for this deck?
Also, updating the primer post announcement might be a good idea since Jace is likely to alter the metagame and Scapeshift could be in the list of Jace decks.
I think we should start figuring out what a list looks like before we update the primer (although I am 100% for it).
Here is my initial test list.
I am still unsure of what are removal suite will look like. Right now I am on the 3x Bolt/1x Repeal/1x Izzet Charm plan. I think this is a good start. We don't plan on burning people out with bolt, but being able to hit opposing Jaces sounds great. Perhaps 4 is warranted?
Jace makes us have a hard look at Search for Azcanta. again. Do we run both?
I've found Search for Azcanta pretty poor, I've had a hard time tapping out for it online and/or getting it to flip. Especially with the rise in Field of Ruin.
I like where your list is headed, and keep me up to date on the 1 ofs. I'm at 4 bolts right now, with both spell queller and humans being reasons why. Izzet charm and repeal both feel low power, but izzet charm will probably be important w/ jund back on the map. How do you like farseek? I've not needed the 9th ramp much, and sakura tribe elder already feels meh in a lot of places.
Would you ever consider 1 field of ruin as your 26th land? I've been struggling w/ Tron after the printing of Ulamog, that card is such a beating.
Drop those serum visions for sleight of hand. 100%.
We have so many shuffle effects in this deck and a real need (more than your average control deck) to see as deep as possible with your cantrips. Sleight is better here.
Otherwise seems OK. Bolt is going to have better general capital in the modern metagame than izzet charm, although of course charm is at least "decent". Bolt/snap is a fantastic tool to have access to. If you're running a full set, maybe up to three snapcasters (I realise we don't really want four) and some quality One-mana counterspells (maybe 1 spell pierce, 1 spell snare) you'll have a great basis from which to attack the modern meta.
We have a great leg-up on the format due to being able to cast cryptic reliably from turn 3. We can also make great use of Jace for similar reasons. We need to be careful to also include the same kinds of powerful interaction pieces that other control decks are running (at least in blue).
I'm a big lover of remand but for the longest time this deck has relied on remand to "get there" and in the wider metagame remand doesn't do much to keep you alive. I'd maybe suggest that with the additional digging power of Jace and a more midrangey format (with a more obvious aggro component) on the horizon, we may want to drop down from 4 to 3 remand and include more hard and cheaper options such as the ones above.
Not saying I'm an Oracle on any of this by any means. Just sharing my thoughts. One of the reasons this deck has struggled in recent times may have stemmed from an over-reliance on remand in the face of an aggressive format which packs single mana burn or discard spells by the bucket.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Not saying I'm an Oracle on any of this by any means. Just sharing my thoughts. One of the reasons this deck has struggled in recent times may have stemmed from an over-reliance on remand in the face of an aggressive format which packs single mana burn or discard spells by the bucket.
Keep up the comments. Scapeshift was the deck I started with and this deck is going to need people like you and I (not saying that I am an Oracle either) to propel it going forward.
A lot of people have been sleeping on us. I am not seeing any SCG, CFB, TCG articles floating around. With the proper amount of playing/theory crafting I think we can attack this metagame quite well.
I do have one quesiton...are you really playing only 23 lands? We want at least 25.
I'm looking forward to crafting this deck into a masterpiece.
I used to religiously play 25 lands, and I ran a version with prismatic omen & 4x valakut for a fairly long time as well;
Since dropping back down to 2 valakut, I ended up somehow on 23 lands. This is probably not correct so I'll revisit the list tomorrow and check to see where I've gone wrong. I know for sure that my old tournament-grinding list from a couple of years back ran 25 lands and the manabase was tight. Clearly I'm missing something lol.
Yeah I think this deck has some real game & people are definitely sleeping on it. Seems like every time I play the deck I have to explain how the scapeshift/valakut interaction works. I even had a dude (was not impressed with my one-card combo) try to flat-out tell me the interaction didn't work. I was as polite as I could be haha, tried to assure him that I'd run the deck for years at competitive level and it definitely worked, while explaining the steps in order and as detailed as possible. He was salty af
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Also, updating the primer post announcement might be a good idea since Jace is likely to alter the metagame and Scapeshift could be in the list of Jace decks.
I think we should start figuring out what a list looks like before we update the primer (although I am 100% for it).
Here is my initial test list.
I am still unsure of what are removal suite will look like. Right now I am on the 3x Bolt/1x Repeal/1x Izzet Charm plan. I think this is a good start. We don't plan on burning people out with bolt, but being able to hit opposing Jaces sounds great. Perhaps 4 is warranted?
Jace makes us have a hard look at Search for Azcanta. again. Do we run both?
I've found Search for Azcanta pretty poor, I've had a hard time tapping out for it online and/or getting it to flip. Especially with the rise in Field of Ruin.
I like where your list is headed, and keep me up to date on the 1 ofs. I'm at 4 bolts right now, with both spell queller and humans being reasons why. Izzet charm and repeal both feel low power, but izzet charm will probably be important w/ jund back on the map. How do you like farseek? I've not needed the 9th ramp much, and sakura tribe elder already feels meh in a lot of places.
Would you ever consider 1 field of ruin as your 26th land? I've been struggling w/ Tron after the printing of Ulamog, that card is such a beating.
I think I need to go up to 4x Bolts eventually. I am still in my old habits of wanting only cards that draw me cards or prolong the game (with options). Bolt will be essential going forward.
I think Search for Azcanta as a 1 of is perfect. I would never go more, and its great as a faux-ramp spell in the late game. Early game can filter our draws and we can bin unwanted extra ramp spells if we need to.
Farseek is something I have used since my BtL days. I just cut a 26th land and now I am thinking that Farseek needs to stay because I am running fewer lands than normal. I think 25 may be the sweet spot. 25 lands with a 1x Farseek sounds like a great concession to my conclusion. I love having at least 1 ramp spell in my opener. I feel that the 9th greatly improves my chances (if someone could do that math that would be great...if not...give me a sec).
I am still fiddling with my list. I almost can't think of anything else than how fun it is going to compress this charcoal of a list into a diamond.
I'm also not sure if Scapeshift is the right shell for Jace, but just like everyone else running blue I'm going to jam them. Here is what I'll be trying. I've been fine with 24 lands... the amount of card draw and having 9 other cards to fetch basics seems to support 24 lands just fine. Usually with RUG my problem isn't being able to get to 7 lands, but not finding Scapeshift when I need it. With BTL it is obviously easier, but then its more susceptible to getting color screwed.
Could go down to 2 Jace or 2 Snap and add an AotG or EE. Sideboard is always in flux, but the idea is to side into a planeswalker control deck with some creatures for beat down if opponent has a lot of Scapeshift hate. I've also never been sold on SfA in this deck. On turn 2 I want to be remanding something, casting Steve to block, or ramping, and we don't fill our yard fast enough to flip it.
I used to religiously play 25 lands, and I ran a version with prismatic omen & 4x valakut for a fairly long time as well;
I remember your list. I have been religiously looking at this thread from the near beginning. I only registered a user in 2014. Your Prismatic Omen list was inspiring. I even jammed it online.
I think right now we need 25 lands minimum. I am excited to see where you innovate and hopefully my ideas will stick as well.
Nothing brings me more pleasure than explaining Valakut triggers to people. Even if they call a judge, I'll just sit at my table and relax. I could see where it gets annoying in competitive events...but I do not think that is the norm. Even if this deck ends up being a dud in the new meta I am still going to endlessly jam it.
I still think Supreme Will can find a home. Being a late game mana leak in the midst of trying to resolve a Scapeshift or Impulseing for a win condition have been very useful for me.
Here's what I'm currently working with. I'm basing my assumptions on my previous understanding of snapcaster and how he fits within the deck, so I'm only running two.
Oh and I checked back through my spreadsheets and Google docs and was surprised to find that the old RUG tournament list (based on many others from the time) actually ran 23 lands. The manabase was so tight I don't think you could have swapped a single land, everything was essential. What's interesting is I don't recall the deck ever having mana issues (far from it, the problem was digging for win conditions). I also just dug back through the thread here and there was a lot of variation from 23-26 lands, some without fetches, some with, some running weird stuff. 24 lands seemed to be the most common with a 3rd forest or 4th island, but I stuck with 2 forest and 3 island.
This continued all the way through the Dig Through Time era as well (which didn't last long) on 23-24 lands. Seems I'd forgotten this when I moved over to a 4x valakut build which played 25 as standard (but then with prismatic omen you're happy to just topdeck lands all day haha)
I'm going to trust my own previous wisdom here and tentatively try running back my old manabase. See below.
Eternal witness; many times over the years I've been stuck trying to dig for a piece I need, and snappy-cryptic just doesn't cut it. Swapping the 3rd snappy for a witness means I can infinitely loop cryptics, fading combat steps every turn, allowing me to find what I need or just swing in with witness for the win. If you're not familiar with this loop it requires 7 mana. You cast cryptic in opponents turn naming bounce (target witness) and then whatever other mode is most useful (counter spell or tap creatures). Then in your turn you replay witness, getting back cryptic to perform the loop again. Against aggressive decks with little interaction this is a powerful way to lock out a game once you've drawn it out with some removal and counters. Witness also provides reasonable value against land destruction, buying back bolts and stuff like that. However I'm only including one because as a three drop it ideally requires 4+ mana to use effectively. Still, as an experiment I felt like it's worth testing.
Ancestral vision; it's a great card against slow jund, midrange and control matchups. They've always been tough to beat and I felt like right now we need a nice mirror-breaker style card which just draws you into gas. Could be wrong but for 2 cards in the board I felt like the opportunity cost was fairly low.
Land count; I started with 24 as per the general consensus back in the day. The list contained 2 breeding pool (good fetch target). Then I had a last minute urge to include roast and decided I could perhaps test going to only 1 breeding pool and see what happened. In the fullness of time I'll probably end up back at 24 (not 25) lands but for now, based on my previous experiences with ramp spells and cantrips, I felt like 23 was bearable. Could be wrong. The difference of 1 land in a deck full of ramp spells might not be huge. Then again it might be totally awful. I just remember testing and working with the community on my old tournament-grinding list and somehow we all felt my manabase of 23 was fine
Hello everyone,
Long time RUG Scapeshift player here. I'm gonna post the deck i've been playing until now, but i'm thinking to move away from omenshift.
Hope we make this deck great again !
cheers
Hi everybody. I am a dedicated scapeshift/valakut player.
I am working on a Jund scapeshift list and was wondering if there was a thread which was appropriate to post the list in. I don't want to post something on here that shouldn't be. It's a bit off the wall and wanted some insight on it. I could not find a general scapeshift thread. Any thoughts?
Side note: I have been ghosting this room for a few months now and I appreciate your insight purklefluff. Been loving your prismatic list for awhile.
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Modern
R/G Breach RG
Scapeshift URG Legacy
Painter UBRW Commander
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Queen Marchesa WBR
Muzzio, Visionary Architect U
Praying for Scapeshift Reprint in Masters 25. I want to begin building this deck because if the meta slows down due to Jace, then this might become a big deck like it once was for a very short time. With Scapeshift and Jace, tho, it might have the 2 most expensive cards in the format. My wallet about to hurt
Praying for Scapeshift Reprint in Masters 25. I want to begin building this deck because if the meta slows down due to Jace, then this might become a big deck like it once was for a very short time. With Scapeshift and Jace, tho, it might have the 2 most expensive cards in the format. My wallet about to hurt
Praying for Scapeshift Reprint in Masters 25. I want to begin building this deck because if the meta slows down due to Jace, then this might become a big deck like it once was for a very short time. With Scapeshift and Jace, tho, it might have the 2 most expensive cards in the format. My wallet about to hurt
Hi everybody. I am a dedicated scapeshift/valakut player.
I am working on a Jund scapeshift list and was wondering if there was a thread which was appropriate to post the list in. I don't want to post something on here that shouldn't be. It's a bit off the wall and wanted some insight on it. I could not find a general scapeshift thread. Any thoughts?
Side note: I have been ghosting this room for a few months now and I appreciate your insight purklefluff. Been loving your prismatic list for awhile.
Depending on the list, I feel like a jund build could be discussed here without being a problem.
Thanks for the namecheck. I like this deck a lot and have put in so much time and effort at tweaking and getting good with it, it's nice to see some renewed interest in the community.
I even started doing special alters of foil valakuts for a few people. They were quite popular. I posted a couple on reddit a while back and got a bunch of commissions.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I've briefly mentioned Jundshift on here before. I think this is a better place to talk about it than RG Titanshift, but it's still probably not quite the right place. I wouldn't want a super prolonged discussion, but here isn't a bad starting place. Considering making a new thread entirely, perhaps?
As far as my opinion on the Jace question, um... it's a good card. We should still be playing it. Too good to pass up. It definitely inspires a little extra interest in RUG over BtL, but I'm not sure how many of the problems of RUG that BtL fixed get fixed by adding Jace.
Jace isn't that great in either deck I think (still haven't had a chance to play with him) but I'll start off on BtL (my list: https://deckbox.org/sets/1712264 ) since most of you haven't said much about it. I think it's a 2 of, maybe a 3 of, in the deck. Unlike RUG, BtL has a much harder time getting out a turn 3 Cryptic, but a turn 3 Jace is more plausible and there won't be as much tension between them as a result. It's also a powerful dig spell if you can protect it. I think you can probably cut the third Scapeshift for a Jace and one of the flex slots. If he ends up being great, a third copy may join in. As far as optimizing the deck to make Jace great, obviously more cheaper removal, and more cheaper boardwipes. I've been on two Supreme Verdict for a while (absolutely no regrets there and I was considering going up to 3 before the unbanning) and I was (am) considering going up to 2 Anger of the Gods to help in the rougher matchups, despite it hurting the mana. Anyone have experience with Kozilek's Return over Anger? That's something I've wanted to try for a long while in BtL.
Any blue Shift player can say that Snapcaster Mage is not close to its best in the deck, but we play it anyways. I'm pretty sure that Jace is in the same category. With these suggested changes, Snap does get better, but not by a ton. There still isn't a high amount of useful targets even if some of them are very good. Perhaps going down on ramp (Farseek and Hunting Wilds) would improve the card enough to make me want a second or third, but not right now.
As far as cards that are invalidated, I'm going to start off with Search for Azcanta. The card is much worse with the additional land disruption the format is (was?) packing, so I think it was sketchy before the unbanning. Now, you don't need it for any sort of long game when Jace does that job better. Beyond that, various (mostly sideboard) secondary win-cons are worse when Jace does the same thing maindeck, and more. Probably the best exclusion to that is Obstinate Baloth which wasn't primarily used as a secondary win-con anyways. After going down to 3 Baloth in the sideboard for a Chameleon Colossus, I'm considering boosting up to 4 over Colossus again. I really like that card.
Even before the Jace announcement I mentioned I was looking at going up on Anger of the Gods. I literally had the 2 extra Angers sitting on top of my deckbox to be added to my sideboard over Crumble to Dust and Nissa, Vital Force, just the day before the announcement. I was also debating a Verdict in one of those spots instead. I really like boardwipes, and our worst matchups tend to not like seeing them.
In a more worried tone, is Jace unbanning good or bad for the deck? The sort of decks that run Jace were good matchups, but we have a very hard time interacting with Jace outside the stack, although RUG plays Bolt so that helps for them. I wonder how much trouble he will be for us (once again, still haven't gotten to test).
Going into misc. you're saying that Affinity is a bad matchup? I've found it to be closer to 50-50 or even favorable. Perhaps that's RUG specific compared to me on BtL. When I was on RUG I always was armed to the teeth (3 Ancient Grudge sideboard, 3 Angers main) for that matchup because I would always play the Affinity player at my LGS.
Purklefluff, I'd love for you to keep us updated on Roast. I've wanted to try it but never pulled the trigger. Same with the 1 cmc counterspells. Also to you, where does Hour of Promise+Boseiju stand then? I really liked Boseiju in the sideboard while I was playing it, but not so much anymore, especially without Omen, which I agree should go.
What are everyone's opinions on Engineered Explosives right now?
I also saw someone mention Course of Kruphix as an option. I really like the idea, despite never having played it in Scapeshift. Is it worthwhile despite giving opponent's removal targets? Opinions?
Thank you for the input guys. That being said I will throw up the list just to get some thoughts/tweaks. As much as I would want to start a new thread, this deck is probably too bizarre to warrant it.
The deck is essentially trying to play as a mid-range deck with a combo finish. I was initially using splendid reclamation, and have now switched to World Shaper. I am looking to try and tune this list to play at the modern GP in Hartford in a few months.
However with the unbannings I am unsure whether I want to try this or some RUG version with Jace.
micah1, to you thoughts on Courser, I have a good amount of experience playing it in R/G Breach, and it has almost always been a valuable asset. Yes it does create a target for removal, but when it is not removed both the life gain and the body matter. I often would pair it with Chandra TOD for good synergy. I can imagine the same benefit with Jace.
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Modern
R/G Breach RG
Scapeshift URG Legacy
Painter UBRW Commander
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Queen Marchesa WBR
Muzzio, Visionary Architect U
What are everyone's opinions on Engineered Explosives right now?
I still run it in the SB. It is a great way to kill a board full of Humans or Affinity critters. But I mainly like that it can hit multiple Blood Moon, Choke (if U becomes extremely dominant), Spreading Seas (if for some reason Valakut was targeted), etc.
I have been keeping my eye out on both RUG and BtL builds. I still think RUG may be our go to...but is there a chance BtL sneaks ahead because it can Wrath a board of Eldrazi?
It wraths a lot more than Eldrazi. Being able to kill Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow has been great, although that might become less of a problem with Jace around.
I've been on BtL for a while now. I was a strong supporter of RUG for a long while, but at this point I would have a hard time going back. Closest I got was with the printing of Hour of Devastation and Hour of Promise.
Did you all see Hooglands list on Gathering Magic today for BtL? Not impressive, but I like the manabase (because it's identical to mine )
Also, that Jund list is... way more different than I expected. The last Jund Shift deck I saw was based around using Dark Petition as extra copies of anything you needed. Perhaps TitanShift would have been a better place for that? It seems a little all over.
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It could be pretty similar to Dig Through Time for this deck?
I've found Search for Azcanta pretty poor, I've had a hard time tapping out for it online and/or getting it to flip. Especially with the rise in Field of Ruin.
I like where your list is headed, and keep me up to date on the 1 ofs. I'm at 4 bolts right now, with both spell queller and humans being reasons why. Izzet charm and repeal both feel low power, but izzet charm will probably be important w/ jund back on the map. How do you like farseek? I've not needed the 9th ramp much, and sakura tribe elder already feels meh in a lot of places.
Would you ever consider 1 field of ruin as your 26th land? I've been struggling w/ Tron after the printing of Ulamog, that card is such a beating.
I've also gone up to the full 4x bolt and included 1x spell pierce and 1x spell snare in the maindeck.
I'm going to stick 1x roast and 1x electrolyze maindeck as well.
Not running any izzet charms.
I'm starting with 2x Jace.
From there, full playsets of remand and cryptic. Ramping into cryptic is fairly trivial.
We'll see how it goes.
Drop those serum visions for sleight of hand. 100%.
We have so many shuffle effects in this deck and a real need (more than your average control deck) to see as deep as possible with your cantrips. Sleight is better here.
Otherwise seems OK. Bolt is going to have better general capital in the modern metagame than izzet charm, although of course charm is at least "decent". Bolt/snap is a fantastic tool to have access to. If you're running a full set, maybe up to three snapcasters (I realise we don't really want four) and some quality One-mana counterspells (maybe 1 spell pierce, 1 spell snare) you'll have a great basis from which to attack the modern meta.
We have a great leg-up on the format due to being able to cast cryptic reliably from turn 3. We can also make great use of Jace for similar reasons. We need to be careful to also include the same kinds of powerful interaction pieces that other control decks are running (at least in blue).
I'm a big lover of remand but for the longest time this deck has relied on remand to "get there" and in the wider metagame remand doesn't do much to keep you alive. I'd maybe suggest that with the additional digging power of Jace and a more midrangey format (with a more obvious aggro component) on the horizon, we may want to drop down from 4 to 3 remand and include more hard and cheaper options such as the ones above.
Not saying I'm an Oracle on any of this by any means. Just sharing my thoughts. One of the reasons this deck has struggled in recent times may have stemmed from an over-reliance on remand in the face of an aggressive format which packs single mana burn or discard spells by the bucket.
Keep up the comments. Scapeshift was the deck I started with and this deck is going to need people like you and I (not saying that I am an Oracle either) to propel it going forward.
A lot of people have been sleeping on us. I am not seeing any SCG, CFB, TCG articles floating around. With the proper amount of playing/theory crafting I think we can attack this metagame quite well.
I do have one quesiton...are you really playing only 23 lands? We want at least 25.
I'm looking forward to crafting this deck into a masterpiece.
Since dropping back down to 2 valakut, I ended up somehow on 23 lands. This is probably not correct so I'll revisit the list tomorrow and check to see where I've gone wrong. I know for sure that my old tournament-grinding list from a couple of years back ran 25 lands and the manabase was tight. Clearly I'm missing something lol.
Yeah I think this deck has some real game & people are definitely sleeping on it. Seems like every time I play the deck I have to explain how the scapeshift/valakut interaction works. I even had a dude (was not impressed with my one-card combo) try to flat-out tell me the interaction didn't work. I was as polite as I could be haha, tried to assure him that I'd run the deck for years at competitive level and it definitely worked, while explaining the steps in order and as detailed as possible. He was salty af
I think I need to go up to 4x Bolts eventually. I am still in my old habits of wanting only cards that draw me cards or prolong the game (with options). Bolt will be essential going forward.
I think Search for Azcanta as a 1 of is perfect. I would never go more, and its great as a faux-ramp spell in the late game. Early game can filter our draws and we can bin unwanted extra ramp spells if we need to.
Farseek is something I have used since my BtL days. I just cut a 26th land and now I am thinking that Farseek needs to stay because I am running fewer lands than normal. I think 25 may be the sweet spot. 25 lands with a 1x Farseek sounds like a great concession to my conclusion. I love having at least 1 ramp spell in my opener. I feel that the 9th greatly improves my chances (if someone could do that math that would be great...if not...give me a sec).
I am still fiddling with my list. I almost can't think of anything else than how fun it is going to compress this charcoal of a list into a diamond.
Could go down to 2 Jace or 2 Snap and add an AotG or EE. Sideboard is always in flux, but the idea is to side into a planeswalker control deck with some creatures for beat down if opponent has a lot of Scapeshift hate. I've also never been sold on SfA in this deck. On turn 2 I want to be remanding something, casting Steve to block, or ramping, and we don't fill our yard fast enough to flip it.
2 Breeding Pool
1 Cinder Glade
1 Flooded Grove
2 Forest
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Do stuff cards:
4 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
1 Farseek
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Pulse of Murasa
4 Remand
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Supreme Will
1 Sweltering Suns
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nissa, Vital Force
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Regisaur Alpha
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tireless Tracker
I remember your list. I have been religiously looking at this thread from the near beginning. I only registered a user in 2014. Your Prismatic Omen list was inspiring. I even jammed it online.
I think right now we need 25 lands minimum. I am excited to see where you innovate and hopefully my ideas will stick as well.
Nothing brings me more pleasure than explaining Valakut triggers to people. Even if they call a judge, I'll just sit at my table and relax. I could see where it gets annoying in competitive events...but I do not think that is the norm. Even if this deck ends up being a dud in the new meta I am still going to endlessly jam it.
On that note, I have gone down to 25 lands, 1x Supreme Will, 1x Repeal, 1x Izzet Charm, 1x Electrolyze, 1x Search for Azcanta, and 1x Farseek; being my 1 ofs.
I still think Supreme Will can find a home. Being a late game mana leak in the midst of trying to resolve a Scapeshift or Impulseing for a win condition have been very useful for me.
Thoughts?
Here's what I'm currently working with. I'm basing my assumptions on my previous understanding of snapcaster and how he fits within the deck, so I'm only running two.
Oh and I checked back through my spreadsheets and Google docs and was surprised to find that the old RUG tournament list (based on many others from the time) actually ran 23 lands. The manabase was so tight I don't think you could have swapped a single land, everything was essential. What's interesting is I don't recall the deck ever having mana issues (far from it, the problem was digging for win conditions). I also just dug back through the thread here and there was a lot of variation from 23-26 lands, some without fetches, some with, some running weird stuff. 24 lands seemed to be the most common with a 3rd forest or 4th island, but I stuck with 2 forest and 3 island.
This continued all the way through the Dig Through Time era as well (which didn't last long) on 23-24 lands. Seems I'd forgotten this when I moved over to a 4x valakut build which played 25 as standard (but then with prismatic omen you're happy to just topdeck lands all day haha)
I'm going to trust my own previous wisdom here and tentatively try running back my old manabase. See below.
Also see below for things I'm not sure about:
4x search for tomorrow
4x scapeshift
2x snapcaster mage
1x eternal witness (experiment, see below)
4x sleight of hand
4x lightning bolt
1x spell snare
1x spell pierce
1x electrolyze
1x roast
4x remand
4x cryptic command
4x misty rainforest
1x breeding pool
1x flooded Grove
4x steam vents
4x stomping ground
1x cinder glade
1x mountain
2x valakut, the molten pinnacle
2x forest
3x island
1x izzet staticaster
2x obstinate baloth
1x boseiju, who shelters all
1x carnage tyrant
1x thragtusk
1x engineered explosives
2x ancient grudge
2x anger of the gods
2x dispel
2x ancestral vision (see below)
Eternal witness; many times over the years I've been stuck trying to dig for a piece I need, and snappy-cryptic just doesn't cut it. Swapping the 3rd snappy for a witness means I can infinitely loop cryptics, fading combat steps every turn, allowing me to find what I need or just swing in with witness for the win. If you're not familiar with this loop it requires 7 mana. You cast cryptic in opponents turn naming bounce (target witness) and then whatever other mode is most useful (counter spell or tap creatures). Then in your turn you replay witness, getting back cryptic to perform the loop again. Against aggressive decks with little interaction this is a powerful way to lock out a game once you've drawn it out with some removal and counters. Witness also provides reasonable value against land destruction, buying back bolts and stuff like that. However I'm only including one because as a three drop it ideally requires 4+ mana to use effectively. Still, as an experiment I felt like it's worth testing.
Ancestral vision; it's a great card against slow jund, midrange and control matchups. They've always been tough to beat and I felt like right now we need a nice mirror-breaker style card which just draws you into gas. Could be wrong but for 2 cards in the board I felt like the opportunity cost was fairly low.
Land count; I started with 24 as per the general consensus back in the day. The list contained 2 breeding pool (good fetch target). Then I had a last minute urge to include roast and decided I could perhaps test going to only 1 breeding pool and see what happened. In the fullness of time I'll probably end up back at 24 (not 25) lands but for now, based on my previous experiences with ramp spells and cantrips, I felt like 23 was bearable. Could be wrong. The difference of 1 land in a deck full of ramp spells might not be huge. Then again it might be totally awful. I just remember testing and working with the community on my old tournament-grinding list and somehow we all felt my manabase of 23 was fine
Long time RUG Scapeshift player here. I'm gonna post the deck i've been playing until now, but i'm thinking to move away from omenshift.
Hope we make this deck great again !
cheers
I am working on a Jund scapeshift list and was wondering if there was a thread which was appropriate to post the list in. I don't want to post something on here that shouldn't be. It's a bit off the wall and wanted some insight on it. I could not find a general scapeshift thread. Any thoughts?
Side note: I have been ghosting this room for a few months now and I appreciate your insight purklefluff. Been loving your prismatic list for awhile.
R/G Breach RG
Scapeshift URG
Legacy
Painter UBRW
Commander
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Queen Marchesa WBR
Muzzio, Visionary Architect U
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
https://mobile.twitter.com/SaffronOlive/status/962500402838233088
Hopefully this gives you some hope. I feel like it is indeed very likely. Gotta get that original Morningtide art though.
OHHH NICE
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Depending on the list, I feel like a jund build could be discussed here without being a problem.
Thanks for the namecheck. I like this deck a lot and have put in so much time and effort at tweaking and getting good with it, it's nice to see some renewed interest in the community.
I even started doing special alters of foil valakuts for a few people. They were quite popular. I posted a couple on reddit a while back and got a bunch of commissions.
As far as my opinion on the Jace question, um... it's a good card. We should still be playing it. Too good to pass up. It definitely inspires a little extra interest in RUG over BtL, but I'm not sure how many of the problems of RUG that BtL fixed get fixed by adding Jace.
Jace isn't that great in either deck I think (still haven't had a chance to play with him) but I'll start off on BtL (my list: https://deckbox.org/sets/1712264 ) since most of you haven't said much about it. I think it's a 2 of, maybe a 3 of, in the deck. Unlike RUG, BtL has a much harder time getting out a turn 3 Cryptic, but a turn 3 Jace is more plausible and there won't be as much tension between them as a result. It's also a powerful dig spell if you can protect it. I think you can probably cut the third Scapeshift for a Jace and one of the flex slots. If he ends up being great, a third copy may join in. As far as optimizing the deck to make Jace great, obviously more cheaper removal, and more cheaper boardwipes. I've been on two Supreme Verdict for a while (absolutely no regrets there and I was considering going up to 3 before the unbanning) and I was (am) considering going up to 2 Anger of the Gods to help in the rougher matchups, despite it hurting the mana. Anyone have experience with Kozilek's Return over Anger? That's something I've wanted to try for a long while in BtL.
Any blue Shift player can say that Snapcaster Mage is not close to its best in the deck, but we play it anyways. I'm pretty sure that Jace is in the same category. With these suggested changes, Snap does get better, but not by a ton. There still isn't a high amount of useful targets even if some of them are very good. Perhaps going down on ramp (Farseek and Hunting Wilds) would improve the card enough to make me want a second or third, but not right now.
As far as cards that are invalidated, I'm going to start off with Search for Azcanta. The card is much worse with the additional land disruption the format is (was?) packing, so I think it was sketchy before the unbanning. Now, you don't need it for any sort of long game when Jace does that job better. Beyond that, various (mostly sideboard) secondary win-cons are worse when Jace does the same thing maindeck, and more. Probably the best exclusion to that is Obstinate Baloth which wasn't primarily used as a secondary win-con anyways. After going down to 3 Baloth in the sideboard for a Chameleon Colossus, I'm considering boosting up to 4 over Colossus again. I really like that card.
Even before the Jace announcement I mentioned I was looking at going up on Anger of the Gods. I literally had the 2 extra Angers sitting on top of my deckbox to be added to my sideboard over Crumble to Dust and Nissa, Vital Force, just the day before the announcement. I was also debating a Verdict in one of those spots instead. I really like boardwipes, and our worst matchups tend to not like seeing them.
In a more worried tone, is Jace unbanning good or bad for the deck? The sort of decks that run Jace were good matchups, but we have a very hard time interacting with Jace outside the stack, although RUG plays Bolt so that helps for them. I wonder how much trouble he will be for us (once again, still haven't gotten to test).
Going into misc. you're saying that Affinity is a bad matchup? I've found it to be closer to 50-50 or even favorable. Perhaps that's RUG specific compared to me on BtL. When I was on RUG I always was armed to the teeth (3 Ancient Grudge sideboard, 3 Angers main) for that matchup because I would always play the Affinity player at my LGS.
Purklefluff, I'd love for you to keep us updated on Roast. I've wanted to try it but never pulled the trigger. Same with the 1 cmc counterspells. Also to you, where does Hour of Promise+Boseiju stand then? I really liked Boseiju in the sideboard while I was playing it, but not so much anymore, especially without Omen, which I agree should go.
What are everyone's opinions on Engineered Explosives right now?
I also saw someone mention Course of Kruphix as an option. I really like the idea, despite never having played it in Scapeshift. Is it worthwhile despite giving opponent's removal targets? Opinions?
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Stomping Ground
3 Sheltered Thicket
2 Blood Crypt
4 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Creatures
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Grim Flayer
2 Ramunap Excavator
2 World Shaper
1 The Gitrog Monster
2 Primeval Titan
2 Summoner's Pact
3 Fatal Push
Sorcery
1 Sweltering Suns
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Scapeshift
1 Edge of Autumn
Enchantments
3 Prismatic Omen
1 Pithing Needle
1 Silent Gravestone
1 Ground Seal
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Damnation
1 Nature's Claim
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Slaughter Games
The deck is essentially trying to play as a mid-range deck with a combo finish. I was initially using splendid reclamation, and have now switched to World Shaper. I am looking to try and tune this list to play at the modern GP in Hartford in a few months.
However with the unbannings I am unsure whether I want to try this or some RUG version with Jace.
micah1, to you thoughts on Courser, I have a good amount of experience playing it in R/G Breach, and it has almost always been a valuable asset. Yes it does create a target for removal, but when it is not removed both the life gain and the body matter. I often would pair it with Chandra TOD for good synergy. I can imagine the same benefit with Jace.
R/G Breach RG
Scapeshift URG
Legacy
Painter UBRW
Commander
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Queen Marchesa WBR
Muzzio, Visionary Architect U
I still run it in the SB. It is a great way to kill a board full of Humans or Affinity critters. But I mainly like that it can hit multiple Blood Moon, Choke (if U becomes extremely dominant), Spreading Seas (if for some reason Valakut was targeted), etc.
I have been keeping my eye out on both RUG and BtL builds. I still think RUG may be our go to...but is there a chance BtL sneaks ahead because it can Wrath a board of Eldrazi?
I've been on BtL for a while now. I was a strong supporter of RUG for a long while, but at this point I would have a hard time going back. Closest I got was with the printing of Hour of Devastation and Hour of Promise.
Did you all see Hooglands list on Gathering Magic today for BtL? Not impressive, but I like the manabase (because it's identical to mine )
Also, that Jund list is... way more different than I expected. The last Jund Shift deck I saw was based around using Dark Petition as extra copies of anything you needed. Perhaps TitanShift would have been a better place for that? It seems a little all over.