Hi, I'm new to the primer and I would like to know if there's a chance of playing a Scapeshift version that uses Prismatic Omen. I've been looking to both of the decks that use Valakut in modern (RG Through the Breach and Scapeshift), but I haven't seen an Omen list. Is the card bad, or is it that it ins't just needed anymore?
Omen used to be used a lot, especially in the old R/G lists.
Nowadays, the rug lists have been tuned to a point where it's not really needed and is just another dead draw late game (on top of a ton of other dead draws). It doesn't ramp or cantrip. It does let you combo a turn earlier, but the addition of all the control cards makes that less of an issue. Also, as I pointed out above, lack of mountains really isn't an issue.
I think if a bring to light version is going to be viable it will need to use prismatic omen to some extent.
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the current lists and I don't think that they need any major change. The deck does what it does in a very powerful manner and is difficult to deal with. What's keeping it from tier one is that there are other decks that do their thing just a little tiny bit more efficiently and have fewer bad matchups IN THIS CURRENT META.
There will be a meta again where this deck is tier one. It's the cycle of things.
Thank you for answering so quick I've been looking through the thread and I've read the debate about Bring to Light. Right now I'm only playing Standard at my LGS, and I would like to get my first (and maybe only) modern deck, so Scapeshift may be that deck, I love RUG colors and one of my favorite decks has been Valakut during Zen-SoM Standard (didn't manage to play it, but saw it perform and I loved it). The thing is that Scapeshift nowadays needs Snapcaster and Misty, which are a little too pricy for me. That's why I'm asking for Omen, because Omen versions are cheaper from what I've seen.
I still find it hard to believe that folks aren't playing Serum Visions anymore, but I suppose the results speak for themselves. Do you find the 3/2 Anticipate is enough to find spells (specifically Scapeshift) and make land drops?
The main issue with visions is that you are shuffling so much, and rarely do you want to put off your ramping in order to draw the cards you scried to the top. Peer through depths and anticipate dig deeper and find you what you need more efficiently.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Please don't even bother reading this article. The author does not know how to play this deck. His suggestions are terrible. It looks like people in the comments agree with me.
You could always run another fetch land in place of misty until you can get a play set. I won't lie: having early access to both blue and green is big. I think you could run wooded foothills instead and be close enough. That basic forest fetch could be clutch against blood moon.
Snap caster is a big deal though. Luckily, this deck runs two instead of a lot of decks which run the full four. You could run one of the gifts lists which run one snapcaster, one eternal witness, and one noxious revival for a complete gifts package.
And yes I agree that serum visions can be really awkward.
A bit late on this, but I'll post my list for whoever asked. Also, I'd take out search for tomorrow before STE, but I don't think removing either is a good idea.
Lots of Grixis decks in my meta, so having a maindeck answer for Tasigur is important. Spell Snare is also solid, but probably the most cuttable card in the deck right now.
Please don't even bother reading this article. The author does not know how to play this deck. His suggestions are terrible. It looks like people in the comments agree with me.
His 60 card bring to light version has some good ideas and good silver bullets in different matchups to tutor for. Bring to light is a lot better post board when u have strong game winning silver bullets thst u can tutor for like shatterstorm/ crumble to dust etc. Just because hes not s good player doesnt mean he doesnt have good ideas
Most times I see someone use the Loothouse, the extra land tends to be Flooded grove or Breeding Pool or Yavimaya Coast. This seems to try and preserve the no ETB tapped lands as much as possible.
Most of the times I saw Temple was in Courser of Kruphix Builds, or those builds using Serum Visions. I don't know if this was to maximize the finding of Scapeshift (which seems good considering its kinda sorta our wincon) or because the opeing of 1st turn Temple going into a 2nd turn Tapped Land into Serum Visions start was the prefered start.
But ultimately we want to be able to cast all our spells under Blood Moon, meaning the 3x Islands and 2x Forest are set as never to be touched. I've heard of folks replacing 1x or 2x basic mountains for Cinder Glade, which makes a certain amount of sense. The rest of the cards seem nailed down too, minus shaving a Misty (which could have been a budget decision).
So where does Lumbering Falls come into this discussion? It would obviously be one of those flex spots, similar to Temple of Mystery. But is the Hexproof 3/3 worth over a one-time Scry 1?
When is it permissible to have ETB Tapped lands in your deck, is it a Serum Visions only deck construction idea?
Where do we plug Cinder Glade into the deck, replace a mountain or both? Use it in the flex spots as extra potential damage?
The very fact that Flamethrowers exist proves that someone somewhere said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire... But I'm just not close enough to do it"
If you think about the ideal mana curve if this deck, it goes typically 1-2-4-6-7. This mana curve is a big factor in what cards fit well with the deck. For instance, very few decks run Thragtusk in the sideboard, but many run obstinate baloth and titans. This is something that was tuned over years of high level tournament play.
With that in mind, you have to determine when you would want to play a come into play tapped land. The answer is either on turn 1 or turn 5, but not on any other turns (unless the game goes very long). If you consider that, you would really want to run one tap land AT THE MOST. Unlike many control decks, we want to maintain tempo and execute our gameplan as efficiently as possible. This is a combo deck that controls tempo and wants to put a meaningful clock on the opponent.
The lists from last summer (2014) would use Halimar Depths as their tap land of choice. In my strong opinion, you would only want to run cinder glade or lumbering falls in that one tap land spot.
Remember that you already have two tap lands that are required in Valakut.
You could go super deep on the analysis of what utility land to use. I've used desolate lighthouse, academy ruins, and alchemists refuge in the past, and they all have their uses depending on the rest of the deck. I've always returned to desolate lighthouse because it fits how I play (maximum mana efficiency).
The manland is good but requires you to invest 5 mana on your main phase. This is much better for proactive decks that want to tap out. It's probably a decent sideboard card though. The thing to remember is that this deck doesn't use raging ravine or treetop village at all, and they're really strong.
If I wanted to add a land that I could dump mana into, I would much prefer one that helps me get scapeshift/answers, i.e. Loothouse, to a mediocre manland. I'm not saying lumbering falls is bad, but I don't think it's good enough to be worth playing despite having little synergy with the rest of the deck.
I replaced 1x Mountain with Cinder Glade, and same for 1x of my flex spots.
The lumbering falls I want to actually try and play a few games where I actually see the danged thing before I try out either Temple of Mystery (If I don't mind Lumbering Falls coming into play tapped) or Loothouse (if I do hate the CIPT).
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The very fact that Flamethrowers exist proves that someone somewhere said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire... But I'm just not close enough to do it"
This might be a dumb question but why does this deck not run any chalice of the void? It works pretty well in mono blue tron which is also on a control gameplan.
Chalice is typically not good in this deck because it plays some cheap spells, much cheaper than blue tron usually plays.
Many scapeshift lists run lightning bolt main deck. We have tons of spells on two mana. If you put it on one it really competes in the two drop spot with ramp spells. Blue tron also works with artifacts more heavily and having artifact answers has synergy with the rest if deck.
Also, this deck does not really run permanent answers because it's not exactly a control deck. The answers only need to buy tempo and cantrip through the deck.
Please don't even bother reading this article. The author does not know how to play this deck. His suggestions are terrible. It looks like people in the comments agree with me.
His 60 card bring to light version has some good ideas and good silver bullets in different matchups to tutor for. Bring to light is a lot better post board when u have strong game winning silver bullets thst u can tutor for like shatterstorm/ crumble to dust etc. Just because hes not s good player doesnt mean he doesnt have good ideas
Bring to Light is just bad in Scapeshift.
1. You have to gunk up the already stretched thin manabase to add another color. Our manabase is already stretched really thin with the amount of red we have to run versus the amount of red we actually use. Furthermore, many of the land search spells get basics. So already it can be pretty difficult to hit all of the different colors we want in order to case Cryptic Command and Scapeshift AND Anger of the Gods.
2. The silver bullets aren't needed. Especially since you can't tutor for them until t4-t5. Cards like Cryptic Command are already good enough against most matchups that cutting it for some *****ty "silver bullets" is just a terrible idea. Also, what happens if you naturally draw one of the cards in the 4th color that are extremely difficult to cast? That Supreme Verdict is just going to sit in your hand when you only have 3 white sources in your entire deck.
Extra: also Compulsive Research is just bad in this deck. There are almost never any times that you actually want to discard lands. And you would NEVER want to do it at sorcery speed. Serum Visions is just infinitely better than that cards.
I've already talked at length about bring to light so I won't go way into it. But I will say that Efficient cards are better than haymakers in modern, even if they're not as much fun most of the time
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Nowadays, the rug lists have been tuned to a point where it's not really needed and is just another dead draw late game (on top of a ton of other dead draws). It doesn't ramp or cantrip. It does let you combo a turn earlier, but the addition of all the control cards makes that less of an issue. Also, as I pointed out above, lack of mountains really isn't an issue.
I think if a bring to light version is going to be viable it will need to use prismatic omen to some extent.
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the current lists and I don't think that they need any major change. The deck does what it does in a very powerful manner and is difficult to deal with. What's keeping it from tier one is that there are other decks that do their thing just a little tiny bit more efficiently and have fewer bad matchups IN THIS CURRENT META.
There will be a meta again where this deck is tier one. It's the cycle of things.
The main issue with visions is that you are shuffling so much, and rarely do you want to put off your ramping in order to draw the cards you scried to the top. Peer through depths and anticipate dig deeper and find you what you need more efficiently.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Please don't even bother reading this article. The author does not know how to play this deck. His suggestions are terrible. It looks like people in the comments agree with me.
Snap caster is a big deal though. Luckily, this deck runs two instead of a lot of decks which run the full four. You could run one of the gifts lists which run one snapcaster, one eternal witness, and one noxious revival for a complete gifts package.
And yes I agree that serum visions can be really awkward.
4x Steam Vents
4x Stomping Ground
2x Breeding Pool
1x Flooded Grove
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3x Island
3x Forest
2x Mountain
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Scapeshift
2x Electrolyze
2x Izzet Charm
2x Into the Roil
4x Remand
3x Anticipate
2x Peer Through Depths
1x Roast
4x Search for Tomorrow
1x Spell Snare
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Surrak Dragonclaw
3x Obstinate Baloth
1x Counterflux
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Negate
1x Roast
2x Dispel
2x Rending Volley
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
His 60 card bring to light version has some good ideas and good silver bullets in different matchups to tutor for. Bring to light is a lot better post board when u have strong game winning silver bullets thst u can tutor for like shatterstorm/ crumble to dust etc. Just because hes not s good player doesnt mean he doesnt have good ideas
Most people agree to the following as the default 25 land mana base:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Forest
3 Island
2 Mountain
2 Flex Spot
For those Flex Slots, I've seen extra basic forest/island, Desolate Lighthouse, Flooded Grove, Temple of Mystery, Yavimaya Coast and extra Breeding Pool.
In those flex spots I've noticed a few trends:
Most times I see someone use the Loothouse, the extra land tends to be Flooded grove or Breeding Pool or Yavimaya Coast. This seems to try and preserve the no ETB tapped lands as much as possible.
Most of the times I saw Temple was in Courser of Kruphix Builds, or those builds using Serum Visions. I don't know if this was to maximize the finding of Scapeshift (which seems good considering its kinda sorta our wincon) or because the opeing of 1st turn Temple going into a 2nd turn Tapped Land into Serum Visions start was the prefered start.
But ultimately we want to be able to cast all our spells under Blood Moon, meaning the 3x Islands and 2x Forest are set as never to be touched. I've heard of folks replacing 1x or 2x basic mountains for Cinder Glade, which makes a certain amount of sense. The rest of the cards seem nailed down too, minus shaving a Misty (which could have been a budget decision).
So where does Lumbering Falls come into this discussion? It would obviously be one of those flex spots, similar to Temple of Mystery. But is the Hexproof 3/3 worth over a one-time Scry 1?
When is it permissible to have ETB Tapped lands in your deck, is it a Serum Visions only deck construction idea?
Where do we plug Cinder Glade into the deck, replace a mountain or both? Use it in the flex spots as extra potential damage?
When do you use the Loothouse?
With that in mind, you have to determine when you would want to play a come into play tapped land. The answer is either on turn 1 or turn 5, but not on any other turns (unless the game goes very long). If you consider that, you would really want to run one tap land AT THE MOST. Unlike many control decks, we want to maintain tempo and execute our gameplan as efficiently as possible. This is a combo deck that controls tempo and wants to put a meaningful clock on the opponent.
The lists from last summer (2014) would use Halimar Depths as their tap land of choice. In my strong opinion, you would only want to run cinder glade or lumbering falls in that one tap land spot.
Remember that you already have two tap lands that are required in Valakut.
You could go super deep on the analysis of what utility land to use. I've used desolate lighthouse, academy ruins, and alchemists refuge in the past, and they all have their uses depending on the rest of the deck. I've always returned to desolate lighthouse because it fits how I play (maximum mana efficiency).
The manland is good but requires you to invest 5 mana on your main phase. This is much better for proactive decks that want to tap out. It's probably a decent sideboard card though. The thing to remember is that this deck doesn't use raging ravine or treetop village at all, and they're really strong.
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Forest
3 Island
1 Mountain
2 Cinder Glade
1 Lumbering Falls
I replaced 1x Mountain with Cinder Glade, and same for 1x of my flex spots.
The lumbering falls I want to actually try and play a few games where I actually see the danged thing before I try out either Temple of Mystery (If I don't mind Lumbering Falls coming into play tapped) or Loothouse (if I do hate the CIPT).
Many scapeshift lists run lightning bolt main deck. We have tons of spells on two mana. If you put it on one it really competes in the two drop spot with ramp spells. Blue tron also works with artifacts more heavily and having artifact answers has synergy with the rest if deck.
Also, this deck does not really run permanent answers because it's not exactly a control deck. The answers only need to buy tempo and cantrip through the deck.
Bring to Light is just bad in Scapeshift.
1. You have to gunk up the already stretched thin manabase to add another color. Our manabase is already stretched really thin with the amount of red we have to run versus the amount of red we actually use. Furthermore, many of the land search spells get basics. So already it can be pretty difficult to hit all of the different colors we want in order to case Cryptic Command and Scapeshift AND Anger of the Gods.
2. The silver bullets aren't needed. Especially since you can't tutor for them until t4-t5. Cards like Cryptic Command are already good enough against most matchups that cutting it for some *****ty "silver bullets" is just a terrible idea. Also, what happens if you naturally draw one of the cards in the 4th color that are extremely difficult to cast? That Supreme Verdict is just going to sit in your hand when you only have 3 white sources in your entire deck.
Extra: also Compulsive Research is just bad in this deck. There are almost never any times that you actually want to discard lands. And you would NEVER want to do it at sorcery speed. Serum Visions is just infinitely better than that cards.
I've already talked at length about bring to light so I won't go way into it. But I will say that Efficient cards are better than haymakers in modern, even if they're not as much fun most of the time