In a world of delvers and pyromancers and eidolon of the great revels (all must kill on sight threats) lightning bolt does a lot more to help you win (i.e helping you not die) than serum visions does. I'm not saying serum visions is a bad card (i ran a playset before KtK came out) but the way the meta is right now you NEED the interaction more than the filtering from serum. DTT honestly is powerful enough to compensate for a lower number of cantrips and filtering, because it will let you find what you need, you just have to live long enough to get there. sure serum fuels delve too, but bolt fuels delve AND removes threats.
Alright, I believe I've formatted my list properly this time (thanks for the tip, rickster) with changes to the main and side. -1 Bolt and -1 Telling Time for +1 Dig Through Time, +1 Peer Through Depths and +1 Repeal in the main. In the side, -1 Primal Command and -1 Wurmcoil for +1 Obstinate Baloth and +1 Batterskull. Thoughts?
Agreed. I miss the cantrips and filters for the deck, but without interaction to remove threats the game is over before you can get there. 4x Lightning Bolt, 3x Izzet Charm and 2x Electrolyze seems the way to go. The only split opinion I have is whether playing 2x Repeal over a 4th copy of Cryptic Command and a 4th copy of Dig Through Time. I do feel Repeal is useful most of the time.
Quick Question. For those players who SB Keranos Does he replace the scapeshift strategy? I ask because he seems to really draw me more lands which is usually a bad thing for me. Just looking for a concept on this card as I havent found a real benefit to him in this deck but have 1 to use
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I'd quote you, StoryTeller20, but I'm new and that falls under "posting a link".
Now to your question, I do usually side out a Scapeshift for Keranos because while he does draw a lot of lands, he draws me into either Shift itself or a natural Valakut while doing so, at which point I either cast shift and deal lethal or just keep grinding out my opponent. Also, he's a very hard to deal enchantment that crushes fair decks and wins the game on his own. He also fits nicely into the curve of T1 Suspend Search, T2 STE, T3 hit land drop.
Certainly you can. I'm trying to fit Serum Visions into the deck of mine as well by cutting a copy of here and there. Courser of Kruphix seems a solid choice against Burn, but due to the dominance of Delver decks I would be more keen to replace them with Repeal instead. I find it useful against a pumped Monastery Swiftspear and flipped Delver of Secrets, as means to buy more turns.
LSV's opponent's mulliganed a lot. And his burn opponent had magma jet.
And he kept some very loose hands. He kept this hand on the play game 2 vs burn and won.
I like serum visions as you get to keep more opening hands, and it also combos nicely with courser. I do not enjoy playing peer through depths.
I've found izzet charm pretty lackluster due to the fact that it is bad at killing swiftspear, which will probably be in 25% or more of decks. At most i'd play 2 copies of izzet charm.
I don't like teferi. He's really hard to resolve and bad vs blood moon decks. I've had great experiences with boseiju. Boseiju is also bad vs blood moon, but much easier to resolve. People bring in a ton of counters in the match up, and boseiju beats everything that's normally played, plus sometimes you want an extra land vs blue decks with tec edge.
Kamma, I play 1 Baloth main and 2 Pyroclasm main to basically play an 18 card sideboard.
A couple things I wanted to say:
1) Playing 4 Chalice of the void SB vs the top dogs. Thoughts?
2) Which is the best alt win con? Right now I'm debating Batterskull/Red Titan, but I see you (for Kamma) don't consider Batterskull, but Thragtusk. Why?
Also do you know if its legal to "accidentally let" the opponent see a piece of paper which showcases your Sideboard plan -which happens to be false? I guess it is.
[quote from="m_aurelius »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/proven-modern/220244-rug-scapeshift?comment=2081"]
Side note: playing any number of baloth, pyroclasm or both maindeck to combat e most popular strategies and save sb space seems perfectly fine to me, and i will probably do that for gp madrid. The main question for me now is how much manipulation i want to play, especially how many digs.
How many Charms do you play?
I'm playing 4 Digs and 2 charms and i think it's a little too much tbh, usually i need only one dig through a game, an it isn't always really crucial.
I think i will test 3 digs and 2 charms to see if i stumble without combo too much...
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
[quote from="m_aurelius »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/proven-modern/220244-rug-scapeshift?comment=2081"]
Side note: playing any number of baloth, pyroclasm or both maindeck to combat e most popular strategies and save sb space seems perfectly fine to me, and i will probably do that for gp madrid. The main question for me now is how much manipulation i want to play, especially how many digs.
How many Charms do you play?
I'm playing 4 Digs and 2 charms and i think it's a little too much tbh, usually i need only one dig through a game, an it isn't always really crucial.
I think i will test 3 digs and 2 charms to see if i stumble without combo too much...
- L
</blockquote>
I would never play more than 2 dig. if I want a superdeep build in terms of scapeshift search I would use those 4 slots as 2 peer and 2 dig.
Charm is now better than before if you play 2+ DTT, because the 3rd mode which was obscene before is now relevant.
Also in this meta is very good to play a soft counter vs burn spell which can also kill an overseer or a delver.
I think 2 is minimum, 3 is perfectly fine depending on the build.
</blockquote>
LSV did videos of an 8-man on MTGO where he played Scapeshift with 4 Digs and said that he would recommend it, and after a little bit of testing on my own I think that that is the correct number as well. It's so good in the matchups where it's good that I have no problem punting a couple game 1s against aggressive decks.
LSV hasn't grinded tons of games with scapeshift. He most likely only played those 4 matches with the deck to make his opinion on the deck. In those matches his opponent's mulliganed a lot, played sub par decks, and he kept very loose hands. I'd pay more attention to his opinions after he tested the deck for the pro tour. DTT really shines in slower metas, where people play thoughtseize. In this meta you can't really afford to draw 2. So 2-3 is the sweet spot for this card until proven otherwise.
Repeal is good against slow green decks, birds, goyf, liliana. It used to be good vs burn decks with grim lavamancer and vexing devil, but those cards got replaced by swiftspear. Haste makes repeal much worse. And repeal has some utility vs people with main deck hate cards like spellskite, leyline of sanctity, and blood moon. It also a pseudo sideboard card, where you don't have to have that many disenchants in your sideboard. It's okay vs affinity, it depends on the board state, whether you won the die roll, and how fast their opening hand is.
Sometimes you can bring it in against blood moon decks and decks with lots of negates and dispels. And sometimes you can bring it in against slaughter games decks like tron and living end.
Thanks for your feedback people. Kamma, I play 3 Digs. Yes sometimes you have 2 and it's not sweet. But there are soo many games where attrition has come and gone, you are under pressure, but you know you would topdeck it and win almost sure, that I think it's worth it. I'm not sure though. I may even come to cut the third.
What do you think about Vendilion Clique? I'm reluctant to add it to the SB because I'm not sure I would know which matchups to bring her in, and at what point of the turn should I play it. Playing other decks, I've seen so many opponents tap out on my draw step, play Vendilion, see that I have a couple stuff you better Remand, and see one of them resolve in my main phase...
More questions:
Is Boseiju bad? Is Teferi better?
Which is your SB plan vs the mirror?
What are people's thoughts on Gigadrowse in the side?
Gigadrowse has been phenomenal for me as a 2-of. You can lock out an opponent with no fear of repercussions and then combo out.
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3 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
2 Forest
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Spells
3 Cryptic Command
3 Dig Through Time
2 Electrolyze
3 Izzet Charm
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Peer Through Depths
4 Remand
1 Repeal
4 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Back to Nature
1 Batterskull
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Counterflux
1 Inferno Titan
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Krosan Grip
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Primal Command
1 Swan Song
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Volcanic Fallout
Alright, I believe I've formatted my list properly this time (thanks for the tip, rickster) with changes to the main and side. -1 Bolt and -1 Telling Time for +1 Dig Through Time, +1 Peer Through Depths and +1 Repeal in the main. In the side, -1 Primal Command and -1 Wurmcoil for +1 Obstinate Baloth and +1 Batterskull. Thoughts?
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Now to your question, I do usually side out a Scapeshift for Keranos because while he does draw a lot of lands, he draws me into either Shift itself or a natural Valakut while doing so, at which point I either cast shift and deal lethal or just keep grinding out my opponent. Also, he's a very hard to deal enchantment that crushes fair decks and wins the game on his own. He also fits nicely into the curve of T1 Suspend Search, T2 STE, T3 hit land drop.
Edit: Took out unnecessary words
This is a modified version of a list I got from Kamma.
Courser is pretty good in this meta if you get to resolve him.
And he kept some very loose hands. He kept this hand on the play game 2 vs burn and won.
I like serum visions as you get to keep more opening hands, and it also combos nicely with courser. I do not enjoy playing peer through depths.
I've found izzet charm pretty lackluster due to the fact that it is bad at killing swiftspear, which will probably be in 25% or more of decks. At most i'd play 2 copies of izzet charm.
I don't like teferi. He's really hard to resolve and bad vs blood moon decks. I've had great experiences with boseiju. Boseiju is also bad vs blood moon, but much easier to resolve. People bring in a ton of counters in the match up, and boseiju beats everything that's normally played, plus sometimes you want an extra land vs blue decks with tec edge.
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A couple things I wanted to say:
1) Playing 4 Chalice of the void SB vs the top dogs. Thoughts?
2) Which is the best alt win con? Right now I'm debating Batterskull/Red Titan, but I see you (for Kamma) don't consider Batterskull, but Thragtusk. Why?
Also do you know if its legal to "accidentally let" the opponent see a piece of paper which showcases your Sideboard plan -which happens to be false? I guess it is.
How many Charms do you play?
I'm playing 4 Digs and 2 charms and i think it's a little too much tbh, usually i need only one dig through a game, an it isn't always really crucial.
I think i will test 3 digs and 2 charms to see if i stumble without combo too much...
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
LSV did videos of an 8-man on MTGO where he played Scapeshift with 4 Digs and said that he would recommend it, and after a little bit of testing on my own I think that that is the correct number as well. It's so good in the matchups where it's good that I have no problem punting a couple game 1s against aggressive decks.
UW Approach UW
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Repeal is good against slow green decks, birds, goyf, liliana. It used to be good vs burn decks with grim lavamancer and vexing devil, but those cards got replaced by swiftspear. Haste makes repeal much worse. And repeal has some utility vs people with main deck hate cards like spellskite, leyline of sanctity, and blood moon. It also a pseudo sideboard card, where you don't have to have that many disenchants in your sideboard. It's okay vs affinity, it depends on the board state, whether you won the die roll, and how fast their opening hand is.
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Thoughtseize decks
Mono White/hatebears decks
Sometimes you can bring it in against blood moon decks and decks with lots of negates and dispels. And sometimes you can bring it in against slaughter games decks like tron and living end.
What do you think about Vendilion Clique? I'm reluctant to add it to the SB because I'm not sure I would know which matchups to bring her in, and at what point of the turn should I play it. Playing other decks, I've seen so many opponents tap out on my draw step, play Vendilion, see that I have a couple stuff you better Remand, and see one of them resolve in my main phase...
More questions:
Is Boseiju bad? Is Teferi better?
Which is your SB plan vs the mirror?
Gigadrowse has been phenomenal for me as a 2-of. You can lock out an opponent with no fear of repercussions and then combo out.