As a person who has been testing 2 DTT I cant say I see the appeal personally. I mean yes you do want to see dig through time, but the way I had been moving through the deck with 2 peer through depths and 2 telling time, Im usually able to hit dig through time consistently while fueling the delve cast on turns 4-5. With 4 dtt (taking into consideration the 4 bolts instead of my 2) I feel like there might be situations where you cant make enough progress with the potential abundance of this 8 mana card just sitting in your hand.
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
i think 4 dig through time is a bit much, your opening yourself up to gy hate for the dig spells.
mainboarded thrun, the last troll is still a solid inclusion against control decks. delver certainly doesn't like it.
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Well, it's pretty good against countermagic too (Leak, Remand, Negate), Shadow of Doubt, Ooze, Bob, Ravager (yeah, there's Bolt/Charm, but a one mana hard counter against these doesn't hurt), Snapcaster Mage, a bunch of Merfolk lords etc. Like Bolt, it's very good when combined with your own Snapcasters too, of course. I think it's a very solid card.
Not sure if it's needed, just tossing some examples of utility. I'm still in double whether I prefer this build or one more focused on cantrips (Snare takes care of stuff for cheap, but it's a 1-for-1 anyway).
What do you guys think of Sawada's list with 4x DTT over peer? And +1 misty over forest
I think the best way to run the Bolt version is likely going to be with 3-4x DTT.
I think with the ramp scapeshift has 4 is a fine number. You can easily EoT it, if nothing more relevant comes up that you need to hit.
And if they bring in Gravehate just for DTT and Snapcaster (If you decide to run both), then i'm not sure they're going to be able to profitably interact with anything else. DTT is still pretty sweet when you're casting it for 4 or 5.
Now someone i trust can test them while i continue my sordid love affair with Delver + Treasure Cruise.
I think your list looks really sweet, too. I'm wondering where your Wurmcoils went, but i'm guessing you took them out, and added another Baloth for Jund and Burn since Burn is so damn popular?
I don't think BGx is a good deck to play in the meta with burn, affinity and treasure cruise delver lists being the most popular decks. So wurmcoil is not needed.
I'm not playing anger of the gods, since i'm not playing cascade bluffs. I'm not playing bluffs since I don't have izzet charms or electrolyzes in this list. It is possible I could cut an island for a cascade bluffs, but i think I want more fetchable lands since i'm playing 4x misty and 2 farseek. Pyroclasm is better vs burn and affinity, and pyroclasm is still good vs pod. Pyroclasm vs anger is a tie vs delver. Pyroclasm gets snared, but anger gets pierced.
I also realized if you're playing zero repeals, you want at least 2 naturalize type effects. That's why I have a nature's claim in my board, I only have 1 repeal main deck.
I'm also going to switch to sleight of hand. I added 4 more shuffle effects, so the scry on serum visions is even worse than before.
I think the best way to run the Bolt version is likely going to be with 3-4x DTT.
I think with the ramp scapeshift has 4 is a fine number. You can easily EoT it, if nothing more relevant comes up that you need to hit.
I've been running two Digs and finding that as good as they are, they tend to get stuck in hand longer than I'd like. That makes me hesitant about adding more, since you really don't want to draw more than one early.
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When you peer long enough through the depths, the depths peer also through you.
That is a fair point, is it because you're drawing into them too early, or because they started out in your opener?
I imagine i'd likely mull a 2 DTT hand if it didn't offer me much in the realm of other action.
Snapcasters generally get clogged in my hand, too, but i still run three, because it's just so much value later. And a beating when you can FB SB bombs like Anger/Shatterstorm(Corrosion), and i sort of think of DTT in the same light.
I'm just wondering how Rickster_ is going to find having 2x Snaps 3x DTT in the same deck. I think the possibility of having 5 cards stuck is going to suck at times. Of course, with Bolt and Spell Snare and Repeal, i'm sure he'll be able to empty Snapcaster out faster than normal. And in the matches where Snapping back a bolt isn't good, I don't think sitting on them is bad. (And as a side note, variance is going to bite most decks in the ass at some point or another.)
But yeah, are you running the bolt/spell snare flavor? I imagine that will help you muscle through the times when they do get clogged in your hand.
I've played about 10 matches with the deck, and haven't seen that many DTTs. I haven't been DTT/snapcaster flooded, but I have been getting mana flooded. Compared to Park's list I have 35 mana sources (Park has 32) and 6 cards that aren't cantrips or lands (Park has 2). I think 35 mana sources warrants 3 DTTs. A top decked DTT should have won me some more games. But I definitely need to play some more matches to see if this configuration is good. It doesn't seem horrendous so far, but the diminished amount of cantrips is telling, as a lot of times I have to play a land and pass and not do anything, where Park's list usually has me casting at least 1 spell per turn.
Some sideboarding guide lines:
I think you want 4 control cards in your sideboard so you can take out your bolts. I have that in 2x clique and 1x negate and 1x dispel. Sawada had 3x negate and 1x clique. Repeal is also bad vs control so I can side in boseiju as well. That's a really clean sideboard swap. However since this deck doesn't have izzet charms or electrolyze, it is vunerable to clique/snapcaster beat down. So you're pretty much forced to snare a turn 2 naked snapcaster from an opponent, unless you have a nutty hand with boseiju and the combo.
Remand's bad vs aggro decks and discard decks, so you want 4 cards to switch for remand. And if the discard decks have a ton of grave hate you can cut snapcaster/DTT for something else. Though you can usually get value vs grave hate from snapcaster, and DTT is still castable at 8 mana in this deck, especially if you run more mana sources.
Those 2 cards are the ones that vary the most in any given match up.
If someone is not blowing up your lands, say like twin, you can probably cut a mana source if you have something better. Snapcaster and DTT are also cuttable since they are slightly over costed at doing any one thing, but they do provide a lot of utility. And cryptic is also sideboard material if you are facing blood moon or a deck with a lot of pierces and dispels.
Edit and i say this because Park's deck had fewer situational cards since they mostly cantriped or found lands. So you took out izzet charm or telling time for something more powerful.
I've played about 10 matches with the deck, and haven't seen that many DTTs. I haven't been DTT/snapcaster flooded, but I have been getting mana flooded. Compared to Park's list I have 35 mana sources (Park has 32) and 6 cards that aren't cantrips or lands (Park has 2). I think 35 mana sources warrants 3 DTTs. A top decked DTT should have won me some more games. But I definitely need to play some more matches to see if this configuration is good. It doesn't seem horrendous so far, but the diminished amount of cantrips is telling, as a lot of times I have to play a land and pass and not do anything, where Park's list usually has me casting at least 1 spell per turn.
looking at the list you posted, i'd cut the farseeks you got enough land fetch as is.
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
modo is so bad, if you damage someone with electrolyze/forked bolt the replay ends
I had this sweet game where I mulled to 5, got molten rained 4 times, and had my opponent resolve 3 treasure cruises, and I managed to win that game. But my opponent forked bolted me on turn 4 so I don't get to watch the rest of the replay....
I'm playing a similar list with 3 DTT (differences are -1 Electrolyze, +1 Bolt, -1 Farseek, -2 Search for Tomorrow, -3 Sleight of Hand, +2 Kodama's Reach, +2 Telling Time, +2 Serum Visions).
DTT if ******* good. I think it may supplant Gifts Ungiven as my favorite card ever. It may even be completely broken and get banned soon.
I like playing 3 because we really want to draw one copy. Of course there's a trade-off there as you might get extra copies stuck in your hand during the early game or take extra mulligans because of that (the main reason to not play a full set), but I think it's worth it.
Bolts are okay in this meta. Nothing special, but they do help a lot against decks with mana dorks, Delver/Pyromancer decks, Merfolk and Affinity.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
mainboarded thrun, the last troll is still a solid inclusion against control decks. delver certainly doesn't like it.
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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Did he post a SB?
I think the best way to run the Bolt version is likely going to be with 3-4x DTT.
I think with the ramp scapeshift has 4 is a fine number. You can easily EoT it, if nothing more relevant comes up that you need to hit.
And if they bring in Gravehate just for DTT and Snapcaster (If you decide to run both), then i'm not sure they're going to be able to profitably interact with anything else. DTT is still pretty sweet when you're casting it for 4 or 5.
I'm glad you finally sprung for the DTT's =].
Now someone i trust can test them while i continue my sordid love affair with Delver + Treasure Cruise.
I think your list looks really sweet, too. I'm wondering where your Wurmcoils went, but i'm guessing you took them out, and added another Baloth for Jund and Burn since Burn is so damn popular?
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I don't think BGx is a good deck to play in the meta with burn, affinity and treasure cruise delver lists being the most popular decks. So wurmcoil is not needed.
I'm not playing anger of the gods, since i'm not playing cascade bluffs. I'm not playing bluffs since I don't have izzet charms or electrolyzes in this list. It is possible I could cut an island for a cascade bluffs, but i think I want more fetchable lands since i'm playing 4x misty and 2 farseek. Pyroclasm is better vs burn and affinity, and pyroclasm is still good vs pod. Pyroclasm vs anger is a tie vs delver. Pyroclasm gets snared, but anger gets pierced.
I also realized if you're playing zero repeals, you want at least 2 naturalize type effects. That's why I have a nature's claim in my board, I only have 1 repeal main deck.
I'm also going to switch to sleight of hand. I added 4 more shuffle effects, so the scry on serum visions is even worse than before.
I imagine i'd likely mull a 2 DTT hand if it didn't offer me much in the realm of other action.
Snapcasters generally get clogged in my hand, too, but i still run three, because it's just so much value later. And a beating when you can FB SB bombs like Anger/Shatterstorm(Corrosion), and i sort of think of DTT in the same light.
I'm just wondering how Rickster_ is going to find having 2x Snaps 3x DTT in the same deck. I think the possibility of having 5 cards stuck is going to suck at times. Of course, with Bolt and Spell Snare and Repeal, i'm sure he'll be able to empty Snapcaster out faster than normal. And in the matches where Snapping back a bolt isn't good, I don't think sitting on them is bad. (And as a side note, variance is going to bite most decks in the ass at some point or another.)
But yeah, are you running the bolt/spell snare flavor? I imagine that will help you muscle through the times when they do get clogged in your hand.
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Some sideboarding guide lines:
I think you want 4 control cards in your sideboard so you can take out your bolts. I have that in 2x clique and 1x negate and 1x dispel. Sawada had 3x negate and 1x clique. Repeal is also bad vs control so I can side in boseiju as well. That's a really clean sideboard swap. However since this deck doesn't have izzet charms or electrolyze, it is vunerable to clique/snapcaster beat down. So you're pretty much forced to snare a turn 2 naked snapcaster from an opponent, unless you have a nutty hand with boseiju and the combo.
Remand's bad vs aggro decks and discard decks, so you want 4 cards to switch for remand. And if the discard decks have a ton of grave hate you can cut snapcaster/DTT for something else. Though you can usually get value vs grave hate from snapcaster, and DTT is still castable at 8 mana in this deck, especially if you run more mana sources.
Those 2 cards are the ones that vary the most in any given match up.
If someone is not blowing up your lands, say like twin, you can probably cut a mana source if you have something better. Snapcaster and DTT are also cuttable since they are slightly over costed at doing any one thing, but they do provide a lot of utility. And cryptic is also sideboard material if you are facing blood moon or a deck with a lot of pierces and dispels.
Edit and i say this because Park's deck had fewer situational cards since they mostly cantriped or found lands. So you took out izzet charm or telling time for something more powerful.
This makes some sense I suppose. Right now I'm not playing Bolts or Snares. Maybe I should be moving back in that direction.
looking at the list you posted, i'd cut the farseeks you got enough land fetch as is.
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
I had this sweet game where I mulled to 5, got molten rained 4 times, and had my opponent resolve 3 treasure cruises, and I managed to win that game. But my opponent forked bolted me on turn 4 so I don't get to watch the rest of the replay....
here's the play list
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viDJ976-Eeg&list=PL3xSgZQPGIYxVIAJO3Vh_6lM259QJumDj&index=1
I didn't watch them before I posted them up, so if the quality is bad i'll just take them down.
DTT if ******* good. I think it may supplant Gifts Ungiven as my favorite card ever. It may even be completely broken and get banned soon.
I like playing 3 because we really want to draw one copy. Of course there's a trade-off there as you might get extra copies stuck in your hand during the early game or take extra mulligans because of that (the main reason to not play a full set), but I think it's worth it.
Bolts are okay in this meta. Nothing special, but they do help a lot against decks with mana dorks, Delver/Pyromancer decks, Merfolk and Affinity.
In the end I've not tested that much this deck, since I'm on cruise burn all the way now lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RysshfJY0bg&index=5&list=UUQw6HUuVJl1tUzKoQDX9qkQ
3:00 OMG why not electrolyze face + scapeshift and gg??