Hey guys, I recently did quite well in a GPT and thought I'd write a tournament report in case anyone is interested. I went 4-0-1 in the swiss and won my first match in the top 8 then ID'ed and got first for the byes and some cash.
Hey, I'm the Tempo Twin player that you met on Round 2 Good to see a familiar report in MTG Salvation, and congrats on reaching top 4 as well.
Since Scapeshift decks around here are almost carbon copies of GP Minneapolis winning deck, it was very surprising to see maindeck Vendilion Cliques. One important thing you didn't mention in Game 1 was how you cast Vendilion Clique before casting Scapeshift. Even if we assume that I wasn't tapped out, you should have been able to find out that I was bluffing or put my counter back into library if I was holding just one.
Also, seeing how you have maindeck Lightning Bolts, I think Cliques can serve as finishers even in Game 1.
In Game 2, I was denying your third blue mana to prevent you from casting Cryptic Command which would bounce my Blood Moon - seeing how you responded with Vendilion Clique and Thrun, the Last Troll to beat me down, I shouldn't have been too protective of Blood Moon.
By the time I landed the second Blood Moon to feel safe from your Cryptic Command, you had too much mana and cards for me to combo out, and there was no way I could win the race. The fact that I was only on a single blue mana source worsened the problem.
I really didn't think much of SB Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir that you showed me at the time, but as most Twin players will side out their Dismembers and Flame Slashs, it should be very hard to kill nevertheless if it resolves.
Wish you a good luck in GP, and I hope I get to have my vengeance one day.
Also has anyone tested Courser in their build? I feel like it would help preboard aggro matchups. Thoughts?
i felt it interfered too much with my ability to remand on turns 3 and 4. later game its ok to drop him as he cen help you dig through redundant would be land draws, but telling time can sort of do that better, so i've dropped him from my list.
if your playing valakut and your deck isn't counter spell centric then i'd recommend courser. he's kind of like wall of omens for land fall decks.
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quick edit: added sideboard information for each match
Sorry if you guys are tired of hearing about Gift Shift, but here I am again.
I went X-2 at TCG Player's States tournament this weekend in Illinois, good for 14th place out of 77 players. Tie-breakers were a clean break at X-1-1, so I was out by one loss. I normally wouldn't put something up without a more impressive finish, but hey, it's a slow day at work! This is mostly from memory, so I may have mixed up some less exciting details.
I was running a Voidslime, but it was more cute than useful nearly all of the time, and I wasn't expecting to see Tron which is the only matchup where it really shines. The Pact of Negation that I put in its place was great, and I was more than happy to Gifts for it when I had Scapeshift in hand already.
I haven't missed the Temples since cutting them, and will probably stick with the second Breeding Pool and one copy of Refuge. I had the pleasure of killing multiple people this weekend with Refuge, and it feels really, really good.
The Oona in the board was cool,but sadly unnecessary, so I'm going to swap it out for something else. I thought I'd go back to the second Inferno Titan because of how much it over-performed against Pod, but I'm not sure if a second one in this list is necessary. Slaughter games isn't a real card in Modern anymore, and you can generally push Scapeshift through discard and counterspells fairly easily. Because of that, I want any creatures in the board I want to be aces-in-the-hole for specific matches like Titan vs Pod or Baloth vs Liliana.
At this point I'll probably just fill the flex spot with a second Bolt or another Affinity card, likely Creeping Corrosion so I can gifts for Shatterstorm, Corrosion, Grudge, Revival. Other cards on my short-list are Pithing Needle, Dispel, Simic Charm, and Shadow of Doubt, but none of those seem to be flexible and powerful enough.
My matches were:
L 0-2, U/R Twin
W 2-1, UWR Control
W 2-0, B/W Tokens
W 2-0, UWR Control
L 1-2, UWR Control
W 2-0, UWR Control
W 2-1, Melira Pod
R1: L, 0-2, U/R Twin
I won the die roll, but mulled to six on the play in game 1 and missed my fourth land drop for a couple of turns. Not much I could really do as I could only hold up one counter per turn and had no way of stopping his end-step Deceiver Exarch + Dispel and follow-up Splinter Twin. I mulled to six again in game 2, and we just threw resources at each other. At one point I had two Shifts in hand but was light on permission, and since he didn't enough have mana to end-step a Mite or Exarch, I tapped out to cast Gifts for Boseiju, which he countered. After that we had a couple of counter-wars over each other's combo, and he developed a pretty good board presence with Snapcasters and Exarchs. I finally drew a third Scapeshift with nine lands in play, and he only had one card in hand and a two-turn clock so I went for it. His last card was Swan Song. His next turn, he drew up to one card, attacked, and passed, and I drew Gifts on my turn. His last card in hand was Dispel.
I won my second die-roll and chose to play, then mulliganed to six in game 1. His opening hand was stacked with removal, and I overpowered him pretty quickly with Gifts and a wall of counterspells. In game 2 we both kept 7 and he opened with Leyline of Sanctity, and burned me out fairly quickly with Bolts, Helices, and Snapcasters. In game 3, he opened with Leyline of Sanctity again, shutting off the Gifts and Scapeshift in my hand. His hand was pretty anemic otherwise, and I played Cryptics and Snapcasters aggressively to out-tempo him on land drops until I had I had enough open mana to Into the Roil his Leyline with counter backup in his end-step. He had a bunch of cards in hand but let it resolve, I guess to win the counter-war on my turn over Shift. I had Shift in hand but could only protect it from one spell, so I also threw a Gifts at him, which he also let resolve. I got Snapcaster, Revival, Pact of Negation, and Counterflux. I don't remember what he gave me, but I had a wall of counters and resolved Scapeshift without much trouble.
In: +1 Boseiju, +2 Counterflux, +1 Combust
Out: -1 Repeal, -1 Bolt, -2 Electrolyze
In game 3, I brought in +1 Krosan Grip for -1 Izzet Charm
R3: W, 2-0, B/W Tokens
I lost the die-roll, and mulliganed to six on the draw. My opponent opened with Windbrisk into Lingering Souls into Spectral Procession, but I had Electrolyze, Remand, and Cryptic to hold him off until I hit seven lands and cast Scapeshift. In game 2, I had to Repeal and Electrolyze a couple of 2/2 Spectral tokens to stay alive long enough to cast Inferno Titan and kill his last attacker. Titan dropped him 16 to 0 in a couple of swings. These games were pretty boring as he only had Thoughtseize and a mediocre clock in both games. He did have four copies of Tec Edge and two Ghost Quarters in the board, so that was terrible.
In: +1 Inferno Titan, +2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Memory's Journey
Out: -2 Izzet Charm, -1 Gigadrowse, -1 Pact of Negation
R4: W, 2-0, UWR Control
I lost the die-roll and we both kept seven. I think he knew I was on Shift, as he kept a hand that seemed to be all permission. I was more than happy to play that game. He eventually tapped out to cast Revelation for an insane amount in my end-step with two mana up, and I activated Refuge to Shift him for 36 with Pact for protection. In game 2 we both mulled to six, but my hand was stacked and I was up a card from being on the draw. He ran a naked Snapcaster out on turn 2, which I electrolyzed in my main phase. I was up on cards, wasn't missing land drops, and eventually Shifted using Refuge with Counterflux backup when he tapped down low to Electrolyze me.
I won the die roll, and got there pretty easily. Game 1 is pretty simple against UWR because they have some number of dead cards and you don't, and in the dark they'll generally prioritize hands with removal over hands with none. In game 2, I took six from my lands, and he hit me with Bolt, Bolt, Snapcaster, Bolt, Helix, and Ajani Helix, and I died. In game three, I kept a two-lander with double Search. He countered both, and I didn't draw any more lands before he burned me out.
I won the die roll, kept seven, and my opponent mulliganed to five. The game wasn't remotely interactive. In game 2 I mulled to six, and settled into a tempo game by aggressively bouncing his Colonnades with Cryptics and Snapcasters. They're relatively useless when trying to resolve Scapeshift, so I like to use them in conjunction with Gigadrowse to make sure they're low on mana when I go for the combo. This guy seemed to have more copies of Tec Edge than other UWR players, so I brought in the Journey. He also didn't seem to have any Cliques or Restos, so I didn't bring in the Combust. In the last few turns of game 2, he cast Snapcaster (the last card in his hand) to flash-back a lethal Bolt. I used Memory's Journey to shuffle it back, flashed Memory's Journey back to shuffle Mountains back in to my deck, untapped, and Shifted for a billion.
I was on the draw, we both kept seven, and I gut run completely over by an aggressive draw. I couldn't find triple-blue for Cryptic, let alone quadruple-blue for Snapcaster+Cryptic, and was dead to his Voice and Finks. He mulled to six in game 2, and cast a turn-two pod and a bunch of mana dorks, but didn't have enough lands to do much other than Thoughtseize once and get a Voice in play. I cast Remand on the third turn to stop a Mindcensor from nuking a Fetchland, then when he re-cast it later, I responded with Gifts for Electrolyze, Anger of the Gods, Noxious Revival, and Inferno Titan. He let me keep Titan + Revival, and I untapped and drew another Electrolyze for two mana dorks, leaving the Mindcensor in play because I had the sixth land and Titan in hand, and Revival to re-buy Anger if he found a Sin Collector. Titan put the game away very quickly.
Game three was probably the coolest game I got to play all day, and despite mediocre draws for most of the game, I got to top-deck exactly what I needed on the two most important turns. I was on the draw, neither of us mulliganed, and my opening seven was:
Stomping Ground
Search for Tomorrow
Search for Tomorrow
Lightning Bolt
Anger of the Gods
Scapeshift
Gifts Ungiven
I got to play a nice little game of How Greedy am I, and the answer turned out to be Extremely. I kept. He opened with Overgrown Tomb into Birds of Paradise and said "Please don't kill this Bird," before passing. I drew a Sakura-Tribe Elder and tanked. A Pod on turn 2 would be brutal for me, and a Sin Collector or Mindcensor would've been nearly as bad, so I definitely wanted to kill the Bird even if he was bluffing. I had drawn 1 land in 8 cards, so I could either 1) roll the dice on like a 1/4 chance of ripping a second untapped green source to chain Searches into the Elder next turn or 2) do the boring, safe thing and get a guaranteed second and third land drop by suspending Searches on turns 2 and 3, and hoping to wheel another land to use the Tribe Elder to fog one attacker. The second line doesn't work unless his hand is terrible, so I gamble it all on the "Bolt your Bird" plan and pass. He plays a second land and passes back without a two-drop. I rip Forest off the top, immediately suspend both Searches and pass back, and he passes back with no third land or two-drop. I casually hit my third land drop (it was even red for Anger), cast Tribe Elder, and after a precarious one-lander I am able to cast Cryptic Command, Scapeshift, or Anger of the Gods on turn five. We grind for a couple of turns, and even though I stop him from resolving Pod, he sneaks in Sin Collector and Thoughtseize to strip two Scapeshifts. The game was coming down to the wire, and I'd already blown my Anger, the Cryptic I'd drawn, and had to spend a Gifts in response to a Scavenging Ooze to at least make sure I could get enough lands in play to Shift for lethal. We finally got to a game-state where he passed the turn with a more-than-lethal board of a couple of two-power guys, several mana dorks, a Scavenging Ooze, and a huge Voice token. He's run me completely out of resources, and all I have left is two lands in hand and six lands in play. I need all 8 lands to be in play and a Scapeshift to take him down because Ooze can take him above 18 life. Gifts is dead because of Ooze, and Scapeshift is dead because it isn't lethal for another turn. Repeal, Into the Roil, and Cryptic buy a turn while drawing a card, but if I draw Scapeshift he can potentially snipe it by drawing Thoughtseize, Deceiver Exarch, or Pod for Exarch.
I draw a Telling Time. I cast it and see Tribe Elder, Search, and Scapeshift. Search goes to the bottom, Scapeshift on top, and I keep and cast the Tribe Elder. I play one of the two lands in my hand and ship it back. On his turn, he draws and casts Thoughtseize, seeing a land, plays a land, and attacks with no cards left in hand. I block the Voice token with Tribe Elder and let damage happen so it dies, which makes sure that Ooze isn't lethal when damage happens and leaves Scapeshift on top of my deck. I go to some precariously low life total that makes basically any attacker a lethal one, and he ships the turn. I untap, draw, put my land into play, and show him the Shift for 8.
In (play): +2 Anger, +1 Inferno Titan, +1 Memory's Journey
Out (play): -1 Repeal, -1 Into the Roil, -1 Gigadrowse, -1 Izzet charm
In (draw): +2 Anger, +1 Inferno Titan, +1 Memory's Journey
Out (draw): -4 Remand
How were your Vendilion Cliques main board? I was literally just thinking about adding them after this weekend as a alternate closer.
Also has anyone tested Courser in their build? I feel like it would help preboard aggro matchups. Thoughts?
I really like the main deck Cliques. It's pretty rare that I ride them to victory since people generally have a bolt or something for them eventually and they're rarely worth protecting but they usually get at least 1 hit in, which generally puts people at 18 life in addition to letting you see their hand/get rid of their best card or draw out counterspells to protect your combo. They go well with bolts too, if you have them. If your meta is very burn/aggro heavy though, I'm not sure I would play them as they are not that great in that situation. They're also not that great against Junk withLingering Souls. Other than that, I really like them.
Hey guys, I recently did quite well in a GPT and thought I'd write a tournament report in case anyone is interested. I went 4-0-1 in the swiss and won my first match in the top 8 then ID'ed and got first for the byes and some cash.
Hey, I'm the Tempo Twin player that you met on Round 2 Good to see a familiar report in MTG Salvation, and congrats on reaching top 4 as well.
Since Scapeshift decks around here are almost carbon copies of GP Minneapolis winning deck, it was very surprising to see maindeck Vendilion Cliques. One important thing you didn't mention in Game 1 was how you cast Vendilion Clique before casting Scapeshift. Even if we assume that I wasn't tapped out, you should have been able to find out that I was bluffing or put my counter back into library if I was holding just one.
Also, seeing how you have maindeck Lightning Bolts, I think Cliques can serve as finishers even in Game 1.
In Game 2, I was denying your third blue mana to prevent you from casting Cryptic Command which would bounce my Blood Moon - seeing how you responded with Vendilion Clique and Thrun, the Last Troll to beat me down, I shouldn't have been too protective of Blood Moon.
By the time I landed the second Blood Moon to feel safe from your Cryptic Command, you had too much mana and cards for me to combo out, and there was no way I could win the race. The fact that I was only on a single blue mana source worsened the problem.
I really didn't think much of SB Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir that you showed me at the time, but as most Twin players will side out their Dismembers and Flame Slashs, it should be very hard to kill nevertheless if it resolves.
Wish you a good luck in GP, and I hope I get to have my vengeance one day.
Wow, I'm very surprised to see you here! You are right, I totally forgot about the Clique in g1 of our match. I'll add it in the report as it was quite important. Thanks for reminding me. Hopefully I see you again at a tournament soon, so you can try to get your revenge:)
I've been a long time reader of this post, but as the season is at full pace I decided to register and seek some specific advice on a couple of matchups, based on my latest experiences with the deck.
Please bear with me if the formatting of the decklist is not fine, this is my first post around.
Below is the list I'm currently running. Key points are: I don't like serum's visions, I moved back from Telling Time to playing Peer, and I opted out of Izzet Charm since they don't cantrip and I absolutely hate to draw them most of the time. I run 3 bolts as a conssession to aggro decks. Oh, and I am well aware that I currently am playing offcolor fetches, but this is due to card availability (I previously owned a UR delver list, so I still don't have the mistys)
At my latest PTQ, I went 5-3, losing once to burn and twice to BG. Based on those premises, which by no means I imply are not to be questioned, I would like to discuss those matchups in which I'm currently having serious difficulties, not only from the PTQ results but also at my local weekly scene.
- Eidolon of Great Revel is putting me out of the game too quickly, since half the deck is a cantrip festival. I'm not sure what I could do to reduce the pain it causes on the plan of the deck post-sideboard. I do bring the 3 obstinate baloth, but then skullcrack and flames of the blood hand seems to be always at the ready. seriously guys, what should be our plan to win against burn? Should I side into the control role, or should I try and race them? Are the izzet charms I cut to be blamed here? Do you guys have difficulties here as well, or is it just me?
- BGx: I've been extirpated, slaughter games'd, and tectonic edged to oblivion. Seems like the amount of ways they can beat us post sideboard is vast, and the Obstinate Baloth plan is not a surprise anymore. Should we push for innovation on this front? Are you guys seeing this kind of hate and difficulty as well?
Cards I'm currently considering that I haven't seen discussed on this thread:
- kitchen finks: this would be because of burn, since it drops one turn sooner than baloth and allows me to do something turn 3 in case I'm not cryptic-ready. the amount of life gained is the same, and it blocks one turn sooner, and lives to block again. not at it's best against jund, but again, the baloth plan is not a novelty anymore.
- witchbane orb: we could ramp to that, right? it stops burn to the face, slaughter games, hand discard, and also has implications on the mirror match.
- huntmaster of the fells: another card to pad up some life, create some blockers, doesn't die to a single removal spell, and has implications for and against the draw go style.
I also find it interesting that, despite running the 4 peer list, I am stuck with permanent based options against those matches, maybe some spell based answer would have more odds of me actually finding it.
Please let me know your thoughts on those matchs and cards
Please let me know your thoughts on those matchs and cards Wink
I've also found a properly-built Burn deck to be a total nightmare, but I've only played it once in the last six or seven tournaments I've been to. Is it way more popular since the GP and I just haven't seen it? Is it a local meta-game thing, or did you just get super unlucky on your matches for the day? Even Chicago players are doing things other than burning people down, and it's like the burn capital of burn country.
Izzet Charm is fine since it can kill their really brutal creatures (Guide and Eidolon) and can maybe stop one of their bigger burn spells, but I can't imagine that it's the last piece of the puzzle for beating them. It's just not very effective at stopping Skullcracks in response to Baloths, which seems to be what killed you. Finks does seem better than Baloth because it starts helping you a turn sooner, and burners will likely hold their Skullcrack until you're at 4 mana for Baloth anyway so it's more likely to gain you 2 instead of 0 and can still trade with their creatures in combat. I think a better option than either one might be Courser of Kruphix. I haven't liked the card in Scapeshift, but it could be really, really good against burn. It gains life incrementally so it's more powerful against Skullcrack, it blocks and kills Guide and Eidolon in combat, it plays toward both racing and controlling by helping you hit land drops while drawing action, and you have the two extra ramp spells so it's even better for you than most. You could also try something like Primal Command, and make your game plan to cantrip if you can, get Coursers out, and use Primal Command to hopefully put the game away by gaining 7 and finding Wurmcoil or Thragtusk or whatever.
So anyway, I'm not sure. Burn sucks for me, too, but there are certainly options available in green to help.
GBx hasn't really been a hard matchup for me, but I've also never had them bring in Slaughter Games, and I've never even seen an Extirpate cast in Modern. I have played against Slaughter Games before, but only from R/G Tron, and based on the recommendation of several people on this board I have Inferno Titan to help. Those jokers are running Boil now, so it's good to have something up your sleeve that can still kill them. I notice that you don't have any cards in your sideboard that act as a way to mitigate damage done by Tectonic Edge and Fulminator Mage. Have you considered something like Loaming Shaman or Primal Command?
BGx decks don't feel terrible to me, but my maindeck has 2 Telling Time, 2 Gifts Ungiven, and 1 Noxious Revival which make it much easier to play against the discard. All I sideboard is +1 Memory's Journey +1 Inferno Titan for -1 Pact of Negation -1 Gigadrowse and that seems to be working just fine. I even cut the last Baloth from my board because it didn't even feel good enough coming in for free off a Liliana +1 activation. There's a discussion a few pages back about how to beat cards like Slaughter Games and Extirpate, and I think the general consensus was that we have three options: 1) Run a powerful enough creature package in the board that we can win anyway (Inferno Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Oona, etc), 2) Get really cute and run a sideboard a Research//Development, 3) Cast Shadow of Doubt to stop them from searching our library.
If you need a sideboard to beat Burn and Jund, then it's going to have to come at the expense of weakening other post-board matches. Finks is certainly fine against both decks - it gains life and blocks their little red dudes, and lives through Liliana to block Tarmogoyfs and stuff - but it's going to be dead against everything else. Huntmaster seems really mediocre, even in something like a RUG Midrange list, and requiring two removal spells isn't helping. The quality of creatures in Modern is really high, and getting two 2/2s and two life for four mana doesn't seem to add up to a winning scenario when everyone else has much bigger creatures for much cheaper, and a reasonable ability to stop Huntmaster from flipping. Witchbane Orb does sound good, and I'd be really interested in your results if you take it for a spin. If it stopped Liliana from making us discard then it would be a shoe-in, but turning off Thoughtseizes, burn spells, etc, still seems good enough to make the cut.
Yes izzet charm actually doesn't suck vs burn. Cutting it hurts your burn match up.
If people are frequently extracting your scapeshifts with uncounterable spells, it's time to play a different deck.
I think the 4 toughness on baloth is useful vs other red decks like twin or ur delver. But baloth isn't that great of a card.
The problem with witchbane orb is that it doesn't stop turn 1-2 discard. You're going to get rolled by what ever threat they stick. Stopping discard on turns 3+ isn't that great as this deck has a strong mid/late game post board. If there was a way to play chalice for 1 on turn 1 I'd tweak the deck to make it work (simian spirit guide and gemstone caverns don't count).
You need to drop the lightning bolts and add the Izzet Charms back in.
This deck is doing bigger and better things at turns 3+
Our turn one plays should involve a turn 1 search for tomorrow or serum vision to focus on turn 3+.
If you are confused about why Izzet charm is so good in this deck let's review all the modes and how they pertain to the modern format.
Mode 1) Turn 3 Karn, Nope, Turn 3 Lilly, Nope, Sphinx Rev for a Billion, Nope, The tail end of a counter war, A greedy chord, Nope, Counter burn spells from the burn deck!
Mode 2) Kill all the x/2's! From Dark Confident to Aven Mindcensor to Steel Overseer to Eidolon of the Great Revel, this mode has your back in dealing with problem creatures.
Mode 3) Dig Dig Dig, the game has gone long and mode 1 & 2 are no longer relevant, time to find the answer, or protect the answer. Sometimes you want Scapeshift in the graveyard. Think, Sin Collector's ETB trigger on the stack, you have snapcaster, scapeshift and Izzet charm in your hand and maybe a land. Cast Izzet charm, mode draw two discard two. We draw land, electrolyze, discard land scapeshift. Cast Electrolyze while Sin Collector's ETB trigger still on the stack, Kill Sin Collector and another x/1, draw from Electrolyze. Reveal, snapcaster, land, and the card drawn from Electrolyze. Possibly kill them next turn with snapcaster, targeting scapeshift. You could also very well loot into snapcaster if he isn't already in your hand. Even if you don't loot into a snapcaster or have him in your hand, having Scapeshift in the yard instead of exiled now makes your snaps in your deck live kills. You can even loot in response to something horrible being cast at the moment, an example might be with 4 mana open someone is trying to resolve a Geist of Saint Traft, ok cool, let's see if we can dig for a remand or a cryptic command (to start chaining tap/draw).
This control deck isn't about card advantage (to a degree), it's about playing lands and crafting a perfect turn. Survival.
Don't let other people tell you Izzet Charm is garbage they just haven't learned how to fully maximize on all of it's potential.
Decks that could bring in slaughter games, you should put in Vendilion Cliques, and Cast it on their draw step the turn they will have four mana available.
I feel Peer through Depths is inferior to Telling Time. The information you reveal with what you are getting is damaging and will cost you games. Also Peer doesn't play well with sideboard creature cards.
You can do neat things with Telling Time and shuffle effects. Also you can hide your win con for the turn you need it, without having to worry about it being taken by hand disruption.
B/G Games can be rough, but more often then not they lack the pressure needed to close the game before you top deck Scapeshift. Obstinate Baloth is a really good card against them, It's not a novelty. It's a real problem for them and it augments how they use Lilana, and even thoughtseize. Just gaining life, using him as a blocker along side of Sakura Tribe Elder to mitigate damage is usually enough to drag the game out to a winning scapeshift.
I went undefeated in the swiss (only gave 1 game to Melira Pod) at a PTQ in Maitland, FL (216 people). I intentionally drew rounds 7 and 8 to make top 8. Lost in top 8 to mana screw (I ain't even mad) to the mirror.
If people are frequently extracting your scapeshifts with uncounterable spells, it's time to play a different deck.
slaughter games is a turn 4 spell, so shenanigans like mindbreak trap in the deck or board are possible. not to mention it makes lots of other random unstoppable cards go away for good.
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on another note my problem with obstinate baloth against black green is it often is staring down a 4/5 tarmogoyf by the time liliana causes it to come down off of her discard ability. my opponent will either make me sac a creature or send his bigger goyf into my baloth.
worse thing they do ontop of all of that discard spells though is knee cap you with fulminator mage in the main or sideboard.
the need for leyline of sanctity in the sideboard had me wondering if Red green white might be plausible, one would be for going cantrips though???
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Collaborative Pub: Ice Cold Thoughts Always On Tap Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
New to this Archetype, but it looks like the best deck right now that has a control game and I love control. My deck is probably pretty close to other decks since I basically did a survey of 4-0 decks online and some other lists to build it.
Notes:
1) I plan on adding another Cryptic Command, a single Flooded Grove, and a fourth Steam Vents in the next week or two when I can budget for them.
2) I put this together without having played the deck so I took the "advice" of people who have proven lists. I am still learning how to play the deck optimally so I don't really know a lot of the nuances and value plays.
Why is it I am rarely seeing Peer through Depths and Serum Visions in the same list? They seem like they should be fine together, is there any reason people play one over the other? I was going to throw this deck together since I really like the style of the deck, but the numbers on those two cards confuse me. What's the usual stock list that's up to date (the ones in the primer seem to be a few years old).
I'll fast fwd to Rd 6, even being new to the deck and never having played Modern I was 4-1 with my only loss being because I was so new that I didn't know 2 valakut 5 mtns was 0 triggers instead of 10
Rd 6: Kiki Pod
Game 1, My hand is repeal/cc/ramp & lands, he resolves a turn 3 Pod off a bird, I debate between bouncing the birds eot (hindsight was correct) but was hoping he'd miss his land so I mainphase repeal his Pod. He hits his land and pods up to a voice, I draw izzet charm and kill the voice and cast a tribe elder or search. He casts another voice, pods it for a deceiver exarch, untaps pod and pods up to an archmage. I doodle around with holding off damage with cryptics and stuff but ultimately can't find a scapeshift before he kills me.
Side out: 2 snapcaster mage, 3 serum visions (thought snap is slow and I hated serum visions all day)
Side in: 2 anger, 1 ancient grudge, 1 relic, 1 explosives
Game 2, Basically the same except I can't find an anger or scapeshift in time and he has a spellskite in play pretty quickly to protect his archmage. He's from my LGS so I talk to him a bit after the match, he said he thinks the matchup is heavily in his favor since archmage is pretty easy to protect and I can't win while it's out.
Rd 7: Scapeshift
I lose both games, mostly due to keeping really poor hands. No experience with the deck didn't give me an indication on when to mull. My hand game 2 I'm still not sure on: Stomping Grounds, Forest, Search for Tomorrows x2, Remand x2, Izzet Charm. He ended up Remanding my Searchs 3 times and I hit my 3rd land while he was on his 7th, might keep it in the dark G1 again but probably not against a deck with countermagic ever again.
I drop at 4-3, despite an abysmal record I went in with 0 games with the deck or the format.
Today went 3-1 at my LGS's win-a-box
I changed the list a little, I went with 25 lands > 24 lands 1 serum visions, 4 peer > 3 telling time 1 serum visions, 2/4 > 3/3 snap/cc, and put in 2 farseek over the last 2 serum visions. Sideboard I think I took out 2 relics, 2 cliques, 1 batterskull for 1 teferi, 1 gigadrowse, 2 inferno titans , 1 shatterstorm. I disliked relics and cliques yesterday and my meta tends to be heavier on affinity and decks I'd get into counterwars with. I also thought inferno titans would be good against Pod and wanted a chance to test it.
I think I much prefer this version, it's obviously more combo oriented and has a stronger game. As others have mentioned though, peer basically serves as either counterspells 9-12 or scape 5-8, it doesn't grab sideboard cards very well but I think that's just the consideration you make in deck construction.
Rd 1: Burn
Game 1, I blow him out with a turn 6 or 7 scape really easily, I had Remand/Izzet charm still at 12 life.
Side out: 2 farseek, 2 remand
Side in: 1 explosives, 2 baloth, 1 teferi
Game 2, I'm burned out the turn before I can scape him out. Turn 1 he bolts me, turn 2 zealot, turn 3 bolt and marauders so I'm down to 9 but have 4 lands now, which I noticed it when the deck basically gets "turned on" and can start casting a ramp spell plus an interactive card the same turn. I charm his zealot and peer, where I see scape/land/baloth/cryptic/peer and I'm reminded why a lot of people prefer telling time over peer. I take cryptic and start chaining them to tap his team and draw or bounce a guy, but he continues to beat down with guys.
Side out: 4 peer, 2 remand
Side in: 1 explosives, 2 baloth, 1 teferi, 2 anger
Game 3, I mulligan into a somewhat solid 6: Stomping ground, Steam Vents, Search, Search, Electrolyze, Cryptic. He completely blows me out, turn 1 I suspend and he casts Vexing Devils, I take the 4 down to 16 since he'll probably connect next turn anyway. Turn 2 I draw Repeal and play vents tapped, he casts an Eidolon. Turn 3 I untap and draw Remand and miss my land drop so I hold up Remand over suspending the other Search (fearing a Marauders from him). Eidolon attacks me down to 14 and attempts a 2nd Eidolon, I Remand and go down to 12 but draw a land. Turn 4, Search comes off suspend and dings me down to 10 and I draw another land, so I have 4 lands in play with Search, Electrolyze, Cryptic, Repeal, Land so I pass since he'll inevitably go for Eidolon next turn. He immediately attacks me down to 8 and recasts his 2nd Eidolon, I decide counter/draw instead of bounce because I'm afraid of his clock and I don't have Peers to help me find Scapeshift, thankfuly I draw a charm though. Turn 5 I draw into another land, I play my 5th land while holding Search, Electrolyze, Cryptic, Repeal, Land so I suspend my search and pass holding up either Cryptic or Electroylze. He swings and I'm at 6, then attempts a Marauders and I decide to counter/bounce; however, I should have probably drawn instead since he immediately recasts Eidolon. Turn 6, my Search goes to 1, I draw a farseek, and play a 6th land with Electrolyze, Repeal, Farseek in hand now. I decide to immediately Electrolyze his guy so I can Farseek immediately and thin my deck in hopes of getting closer to scapeshifting, Eidolon's trigger from Electrolyze dings me down to 4 and I draw another land from it, I then farseek into my 7th land. He untaps and finishes me with a Flames of the Blood Hand.
Rd 2: UR Twin
I don't remember much of this match, I do recall game 1 that I combo'd him out really fast.
Side out: 2 farseek, 2 electrolyze, 1 snapcaster
Side in: 1 teferi, 1 explosives, 1 gigadrowse, 2 swan song
Game 2, I recall being in control pretty much the whole game, him tapping out for a batterskull turn 5 that I Remand and recasting it turn 6 and I repeal the token. Then I remember having 7 lands in play with a Cryptic, Charm, and some other stuff in hand to put in a pretty favorable position and I mistakenly let a Deceiver Exarch resolve that tapped a Flooded Grove and left me access to only 3 blue sources when he went for Splinter Twin main phase so he combo'd me out.
Game 3, I play a relatively disruptive game and he attempts to just aggro me with snapcaster/pestermite beats, I recall him attacking me down to 4 life and I untap with 8 lands in play and a Scape, Remand, Teferi, Swan, Charm in hand. I wasn't confidant enough to go for Scape tsince he has 5 cards in hand, so I pass. He swings for lethal and I go for Teferi, to extract any countermagic from him, he lets it resolve so I block snap with it. He attempts to Izzet charm to kill it but I swan song the charm and he passes. I untap with teferi in play and safely scape him for lethal.
Rd 3: UW Tron
Rd 4: RG Tron
I win both of these matches really easily 2-0, Tron is an extremely favorable matchup I've noticed.
I feel good about going 3-1, but I'm not sure about my burn match. I could have potentially played a few things differently but ultimately it feels really unfavorable, especially with the peer version of the deck. Does anyone have sideboard advice for what instant/sorceries are solid in this matchup?
I have a PTQ in a couple weeks, this is the list I plan to run:
Also remember that you can combo off with <6 mountains in your library, if you use two Valakuts - as long as some mountains were in play. With Sowing Salt removing up to four of your total mountain, you still have the perfect amount of mountains in your deck - 6. You're delayed an additional turn, perhaps, but it's still a fringe scenario. Getting a starting hand without blue/green is not fringe.
He's saying you can still go off as long as you have at least 5 mountains in your library if you have two valakut's either in play or getting them with you scapeshift. You need a minimum of 5 to trigger valakut and having two on the board triggers both of them and basically nets you 6 damage per mountain, for a total of 30 if you have 5.
I'll fast fwd to Rd 6, even being new to the deck and never having played Modern I was 4-1 with my only loss being because I was so new that I didn't know 2 valakut 5 mtns was 0 triggers instead of 10
Also I encountered this post a page or two back and I'm really curious:
Also remember that you can combo off with <6 mountains in your library, if you use two Valakuts - as long as some mountains were in play. With Sowing Salt removing up to four of your total mountain, you still have the perfect amount of mountains in your deck - 6. You're delayed an additional turn, perhaps, but it's still a fringe scenario. Getting a starting hand without blue/green is not fringe.
Can anyone explain this?[/quote]
I'm a bit new to as well, can someone explain why + 5 mountains means 0 triggers? I was under the impression that its 5 OR MORE so that it should equal 5 triggers upon entered with valakut.
also I'm not sure about the thing, but what I'm guessing is that if you have 2 valakuts in play and even a few mountains, if they removed all your basic mountains, you can get at least 3 mountains (dual lands) into play at the same time its enough Valabolts to kill someone
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It's five or more other Mountains. Thus six total.
The bottom part is correct. With two Valakuts (either in play or in the library), you only can easily kill with three or four (sometimes even two) new Mountains, provided that you have enough already in play to make Kut trigger at all.
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When you peer long enough through the depths, the depths peer also through you.
Valakut's text says: "Whenever a Mountain enters the battlefield under your control, if you control at least five other Mountains, ..."
So, you need each Mountain to see five other Mountains, that's why getting a Valakut (or two) + 5 Mountains, when you have no Mountains in play, results in 0 triggers.
That's also why Strawberry's scenario works. Let's say you have 4 Mountains left in your library, but 2 others already in play. You can sac 6 non-Mountains for Scapeshift and gets 2 Valakut plus the 4 remaining Mountains. That will trigger each Valakut 4 times as each of the Mountains entering the battlefield will see at least other 5 Mountains (because you do control 6 Mountains now -> 2 that were already in play + 4 you got with Scapeshift), dealing a total of 24 damage.
It's kinda late at night here and I'm sleepy, hope I got this right!
He's saying you can still go off as long as you have at least 5 mountains in your library if you have two valakut's either in play or getting them with you scapeshift. You need a minimum of 5 to trigger valakut and having two on the board triggers both of them and basically nets you 6 damage per mountain, for a total of 30 if you have 5.
You need a minimum of 6 to trigger valakut
the card reads "if you control five OTHER mountains," so like my embarrassing loss in g3 at a ptq, 2 valakut 5 mtns is 0 triggers
I'm thinking he's saying: suppose you have x mtns in your deck where x<6 and y mtns in play. As long as x+y=6, then you can scape for a max of 6x damage still.
Why is it I am rarely seeing Peer through Depths and Serum Visions in the same list? They seem like they should be fine together, is there any reason people play one over the other? I was going to throw this deck together since I really like the style of the deck, but the numbers on those two cards confuse me. What's the usual stock list that's up to date (the ones in the primer seem to be a few years old).
The first list in Thursdayisgod is one of the ones with the best performance this season (I believe Tian won GP Minn with it, if not he was 2nd?). It's a wonderful starting point. i'd say the slots you can fiddle with include: 1x Breeding Pool, 2x Repeals, 3x Telling Time(Which are missing from the list in his post). Otherwise everything else is pretty stock and i wouldn't recommend changing it.
There are also a lot of things you can do with the SB. Personally, i think it's wrong to not run the Titans. They can really do work in the GBx MUs. (Which are running rampant at the PTQ scene at the moment, by the way.) There's also the option of removing all Affinity hate and hoping to dodge it all day, for more slots.
Also has anyone tested Courser in their build? I feel like it would help preboard aggro matchups. Thoughts?
Hey, I'm the Tempo Twin player that you met on Round 2 Good to see a familiar report in MTG Salvation, and congrats on reaching top 4 as well.
Since Scapeshift decks around here are almost carbon copies of GP Minneapolis winning deck, it was very surprising to see maindeck Vendilion Cliques. One important thing you didn't mention in Game 1 was how you cast Vendilion Clique before casting Scapeshift. Even if we assume that I wasn't tapped out, you should have been able to find out that I was bluffing or put my counter back into library if I was holding just one.
Also, seeing how you have maindeck Lightning Bolts, I think Cliques can serve as finishers even in Game 1.
In Game 2, I was denying your third blue mana to prevent you from casting Cryptic Command which would bounce my Blood Moon - seeing how you responded with Vendilion Clique and Thrun, the Last Troll to beat me down, I shouldn't have been too protective of Blood Moon.
By the time I landed the second Blood Moon to feel safe from your Cryptic Command, you had too much mana and cards for me to combo out, and there was no way I could win the race. The fact that I was only on a single blue mana source worsened the problem.
I really didn't think much of SB Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir that you showed me at the time, but as most Twin players will side out their Dismembers and Flame Slashs, it should be very hard to kill nevertheless if it resolves.
Wish you a good luck in GP, and I hope I get to have my vengeance one day.
i felt it interfered too much with my ability to remand on turns 3 and 4. later game its ok to drop him as he cen help you dig through redundant would be land draws, but telling time can sort of do that better, so i've dropped him from my list.
if your playing valakut and your deck isn't counter spell centric then i'd recommend courser. he's kind of like wall of omens for land fall decks.
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Sorry if you guys are tired of hearing about Gift Shift, but here I am again.
I went X-2 at TCG Player's States tournament this weekend in Illinois, good for 14th place out of 77 players. Tie-breakers were a clean break at X-1-1, so I was out by one loss. I normally wouldn't put something up without a more impressive finish, but hey, it's a slow day at work! This is mostly from memory, so I may have mixed up some less exciting details.
Here's the list I played
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Gigadrowse
1 Into the Roil
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Noxious Revival
1 Repeal
1 Pact of Negation
2 Electrolyze
2 Gifts Ungiven
2 Izzet Charm
2 Telling Time
3 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
1 Flooded Grove
2 Breeding Pool
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Forest
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Counterflux
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Shatterstorm
1 Inferno Titan
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Combust
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Memory's Journey
1 Krosan Grip
I was running a Voidslime, but it was more cute than useful nearly all of the time, and I wasn't expecting to see Tron which is the only matchup where it really shines. The Pact of Negation that I put in its place was great, and I was more than happy to Gifts for it when I had Scapeshift in hand already.
I haven't missed the Temples since cutting them, and will probably stick with the second Breeding Pool and one copy of Refuge. I had the pleasure of killing multiple people this weekend with Refuge, and it feels really, really good.
The Oona in the board was cool,but sadly unnecessary, so I'm going to swap it out for something else. I thought I'd go back to the second Inferno Titan because of how much it over-performed against Pod, but I'm not sure if a second one in this list is necessary. Slaughter games isn't a real card in Modern anymore, and you can generally push Scapeshift through discard and counterspells fairly easily. Because of that, I want any creatures in the board I want to be aces-in-the-hole for specific matches like Titan vs Pod or Baloth vs Liliana.
At this point I'll probably just fill the flex spot with a second Bolt or another Affinity card, likely Creeping Corrosion so I can gifts for Shatterstorm, Corrosion, Grudge, Revival. Other cards on my short-list are Pithing Needle, Dispel, Simic Charm, and Shadow of Doubt, but none of those seem to be flexible and powerful enough.
My matches were:
L 0-2, U/R Twin
W 2-1, UWR Control
W 2-0, B/W Tokens
W 2-0, UWR Control
L 1-2, UWR Control
W 2-0, UWR Control
W 2-1, Melira Pod
R1: L, 0-2, U/R Twin
I won the die roll, but mulled to six on the play in game 1 and missed my fourth land drop for a couple of turns. Not much I could really do as I could only hold up one counter per turn and had no way of stopping his end-step Deceiver Exarch + Dispel and follow-up Splinter Twin. I mulled to six again in game 2, and we just threw resources at each other. At one point I had two Shifts in hand but was light on permission, and since he didn't enough have mana to end-step a Mite or Exarch, I tapped out to cast Gifts for Boseiju, which he countered. After that we had a couple of counter-wars over each other's combo, and he developed a pretty good board presence with Snapcasters and Exarchs. I finally drew a third Scapeshift with nine lands in play, and he only had one card in hand and a two-turn clock so I went for it. His last card was Swan Song. His next turn, he drew up to one card, attacked, and passed, and I drew Gifts on my turn. His last card in hand was Dispel.
In: +1 V Clique, +1 Boseiju, +2 Counterflux, +1 1 Combust, +1 K-Grip
Out: -2 Izzet Charm, -1 Cryptic Command, -1 Repeal, -1 Bolt, -1 Tribe Elder
R2: W, 2-1, UWR Control
I won my second die-roll and chose to play, then mulliganed to six in game 1. His opening hand was stacked with removal, and I overpowered him pretty quickly with Gifts and a wall of counterspells. In game 2 we both kept 7 and he opened with Leyline of Sanctity, and burned me out fairly quickly with Bolts, Helices, and Snapcasters. In game 3, he opened with Leyline of Sanctity again, shutting off the Gifts and Scapeshift in my hand. His hand was pretty anemic otherwise, and I played Cryptics and Snapcasters aggressively to out-tempo him on land drops until I had I had enough open mana to Into the Roil his Leyline with counter backup in his end-step. He had a bunch of cards in hand but let it resolve, I guess to win the counter-war on my turn over Shift. I had Shift in hand but could only protect it from one spell, so I also threw a Gifts at him, which he also let resolve. I got Snapcaster, Revival, Pact of Negation, and Counterflux. I don't remember what he gave me, but I had a wall of counters and resolved Scapeshift without much trouble.
In: +1 Boseiju, +2 Counterflux, +1 Combust
Out: -1 Repeal, -1 Bolt, -2 Electrolyze
In game 3, I brought in +1 Krosan Grip for -1 Izzet Charm
R3: W, 2-0, B/W Tokens
I lost the die-roll, and mulliganed to six on the draw. My opponent opened with Windbrisk into Lingering Souls into Spectral Procession, but I had Electrolyze, Remand, and Cryptic to hold him off until I hit seven lands and cast Scapeshift. In game 2, I had to Repeal and Electrolyze a couple of 2/2 Spectral tokens to stay alive long enough to cast Inferno Titan and kill his last attacker. Titan dropped him 16 to 0 in a couple of swings. These games were pretty boring as he only had Thoughtseize and a mediocre clock in both games. He did have four copies of Tec Edge and two Ghost Quarters in the board, so that was terrible.
In: +1 Inferno Titan, +2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Memory's Journey
Out: -2 Izzet Charm, -1 Gigadrowse, -1 Pact of Negation
R4: W, 2-0, UWR Control
I lost the die-roll and we both kept seven. I think he knew I was on Shift, as he kept a hand that seemed to be all permission. I was more than happy to play that game. He eventually tapped out to cast Revelation for an insane amount in my end-step with two mana up, and I activated Refuge to Shift him for 36 with Pact for protection. In game 2 we both mulled to six, but my hand was stacked and I was up a card from being on the draw. He ran a naked Snapcaster out on turn 2, which I electrolyzed in my main phase. I was up on cards, wasn't missing land drops, and eventually Shifted using Refuge with Counterflux backup when he tapped down low to Electrolyze me.
In: +1 Boseiju, +2 Counterflux, +1 Combust
Out: -1 Repeal, -1 Bolt, -2 Electrolyze
R5: L, 1-2, UWR Control
I won the die roll, and got there pretty easily. Game 1 is pretty simple against UWR because they have some number of dead cards and you don't, and in the dark they'll generally prioritize hands with removal over hands with none. In game 2, I took six from my lands, and he hit me with Bolt, Bolt, Snapcaster, Bolt, Helix, and Ajani Helix, and I died. In game three, I kept a two-lander with double Search. He countered both, and I didn't draw any more lands before he burned me out.
In: +1 Boseiju, +2 Counterflux, +1 Combust
Out: -1 Repeal, -1 Bolt, -2 Electrolyze
R6: W, 2-0, UWR Control
I won the die roll, kept seven, and my opponent mulliganed to five. The game wasn't remotely interactive. In game 2 I mulled to six, and settled into a tempo game by aggressively bouncing his Colonnades with Cryptics and Snapcasters. They're relatively useless when trying to resolve Scapeshift, so I like to use them in conjunction with Gigadrowse to make sure they're low on mana when I go for the combo. This guy seemed to have more copies of Tec Edge than other UWR players, so I brought in the Journey. He also didn't seem to have any Cliques or Restos, so I didn't bring in the Combust. In the last few turns of game 2, he cast Snapcaster (the last card in his hand) to flash-back a lethal Bolt. I used Memory's Journey to shuffle it back, flashed Memory's Journey back to shuffle Mountains back in to my deck, untapped, and Shifted for a billion.
In: +1 Boseiju, +2 Counterflux, +1 Memory's Journey
Out: -1 Repeal, -1 Bolt, -2 Electrolyze
R7: W, 2-1, Melira Pod
I was on the draw, we both kept seven, and I gut run completely over by an aggressive draw. I couldn't find triple-blue for Cryptic, let alone quadruple-blue for Snapcaster+Cryptic, and was dead to his Voice and Finks. He mulled to six in game 2, and cast a turn-two pod and a bunch of mana dorks, but didn't have enough lands to do much other than Thoughtseize once and get a Voice in play. I cast Remand on the third turn to stop a Mindcensor from nuking a Fetchland, then when he re-cast it later, I responded with Gifts for Electrolyze, Anger of the Gods, Noxious Revival, and Inferno Titan. He let me keep Titan + Revival, and I untapped and drew another Electrolyze for two mana dorks, leaving the Mindcensor in play because I had the sixth land and Titan in hand, and Revival to re-buy Anger if he found a Sin Collector. Titan put the game away very quickly.
Game three was probably the coolest game I got to play all day, and despite mediocre draws for most of the game, I got to top-deck exactly what I needed on the two most important turns. I was on the draw, neither of us mulliganed, and my opening seven was:
Stomping Ground
Search for Tomorrow
Search for Tomorrow
Lightning Bolt
Anger of the Gods
Scapeshift
Gifts Ungiven
I got to play a nice little game of How Greedy am I, and the answer turned out to be Extremely. I kept. He opened with Overgrown Tomb into Birds of Paradise and said "Please don't kill this Bird," before passing. I drew a Sakura-Tribe Elder and tanked. A Pod on turn 2 would be brutal for me, and a Sin Collector or Mindcensor would've been nearly as bad, so I definitely wanted to kill the Bird even if he was bluffing. I had drawn 1 land in 8 cards, so I could either 1) roll the dice on like a 1/4 chance of ripping a second untapped green source to chain Searches into the Elder next turn or 2) do the boring, safe thing and get a guaranteed second and third land drop by suspending Searches on turns 2 and 3, and hoping to wheel another land to use the Tribe Elder to fog one attacker. The second line doesn't work unless his hand is terrible, so I gamble it all on the "Bolt your Bird" plan and pass. He plays a second land and passes back without a two-drop. I rip Forest off the top, immediately suspend both Searches and pass back, and he passes back with no third land or two-drop. I casually hit my third land drop (it was even red for Anger), cast Tribe Elder, and after a precarious one-lander I am able to cast Cryptic Command, Scapeshift, or Anger of the Gods on turn five. We grind for a couple of turns, and even though I stop him from resolving Pod, he sneaks in Sin Collector and Thoughtseize to strip two Scapeshifts. The game was coming down to the wire, and I'd already blown my Anger, the Cryptic I'd drawn, and had to spend a Gifts in response to a Scavenging Ooze to at least make sure I could get enough lands in play to Shift for lethal. We finally got to a game-state where he passed the turn with a more-than-lethal board of a couple of two-power guys, several mana dorks, a Scavenging Ooze, and a huge Voice token. He's run me completely out of resources, and all I have left is two lands in hand and six lands in play. I need all 8 lands to be in play and a Scapeshift to take him down because Ooze can take him above 18 life. Gifts is dead because of Ooze, and Scapeshift is dead because it isn't lethal for another turn. Repeal, Into the Roil, and Cryptic buy a turn while drawing a card, but if I draw Scapeshift he can potentially snipe it by drawing Thoughtseize, Deceiver Exarch, or Pod for Exarch.
I draw a Telling Time. I cast it and see Tribe Elder, Search, and Scapeshift. Search goes to the bottom, Scapeshift on top, and I keep and cast the Tribe Elder. I play one of the two lands in my hand and ship it back. On his turn, he draws and casts Thoughtseize, seeing a land, plays a land, and attacks with no cards left in hand. I block the Voice token with Tribe Elder and let damage happen so it dies, which makes sure that Ooze isn't lethal when damage happens and leaves Scapeshift on top of my deck. I go to some precariously low life total that makes basically any attacker a lethal one, and he ships the turn. I untap, draw, put my land into play, and show him the Shift for 8.
In (play): +2 Anger, +1 Inferno Titan, +1 Memory's Journey
Out (play): -1 Repeal, -1 Into the Roil, -1 Gigadrowse, -1 Izzet charm
In (draw): +2 Anger, +1 Inferno Titan, +1 Memory's Journey
Out (draw): -4 Remand
I really like the main deck Cliques. It's pretty rare that I ride them to victory since people generally have a bolt or something for them eventually and they're rarely worth protecting but they usually get at least 1 hit in, which generally puts people at 18 life in addition to letting you see their hand/get rid of their best card or draw out counterspells to protect your combo. They go well with bolts too, if you have them. If your meta is very burn/aggro heavy though, I'm not sure I would play them as they are not that great in that situation. They're also not that great against Junk withLingering Souls. Other than that, I really like them.
Wow, I'm very surprised to see you here! You are right, I totally forgot about the Clique in g1 of our match. I'll add it in the report as it was quite important. Thanks for reminding me. Hopefully I see you again at a tournament soon, so you can try to get your revenge:)
I've been a long time reader of this post, but as the season is at full pace I decided to register and seek some specific advice on a couple of matchups, based on my latest experiences with the deck.
Please bear with me if the formatting of the decklist is not fine, this is my first post around.
Below is the list I'm currently running. Key points are: I don't like serum's visions, I moved back from Telling Time to playing Peer, and I opted out of Izzet Charm since they don't cantrip and I absolutely hate to draw them most of the time. I run 3 bolts as a conssession to aggro decks. Oh, and I am well aware that I currently am playing offcolor fetches, but this is due to card availability (I previously owned a UR delver list, so I still don't have the mistys)
4 Stomping Grounds
2 Breeding Pool
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Grove
3 Island
3 Forest
2 Mountain
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Sakura-tribe Elder
2 Farseek
4 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
4 Peer Through Depths
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Repeal
2 Electrolyze
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Counterflux
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Combust
1 Gigadrowse
At my latest PTQ, I went 5-3, losing once to burn and twice to BG. Based on those premises, which by no means I imply are not to be questioned, I would like to discuss those matchups in which I'm currently having serious difficulties, not only from the PTQ results but also at my local weekly scene.
- Eidolon of Great Revel is putting me out of the game too quickly, since half the deck is a cantrip festival. I'm not sure what I could do to reduce the pain it causes on the plan of the deck post-sideboard. I do bring the 3 obstinate baloth, but then skullcrack and flames of the blood hand seems to be always at the ready. seriously guys, what should be our plan to win against burn? Should I side into the control role, or should I try and race them? Are the izzet charms I cut to be blamed here? Do you guys have difficulties here as well, or is it just me?
- BGx: I've been extirpated, slaughter games'd, and tectonic edged to oblivion. Seems like the amount of ways they can beat us post sideboard is vast, and the Obstinate Baloth plan is not a surprise anymore. Should we push for innovation on this front? Are you guys seeing this kind of hate and difficulty as well?
Cards I'm currently considering that I haven't seen discussed on this thread:
- kitchen finks: this would be because of burn, since it drops one turn sooner than baloth and allows me to do something turn 3 in case I'm not cryptic-ready. the amount of life gained is the same, and it blocks one turn sooner, and lives to block again. not at it's best against jund, but again, the baloth plan is not a novelty anymore.
- witchbane orb: we could ramp to that, right? it stops burn to the face, slaughter games, hand discard, and also has implications on the mirror match.
- huntmaster of the fells: another card to pad up some life, create some blockers, doesn't die to a single removal spell, and has implications for and against the draw go style.
I also find it interesting that, despite running the 4 peer list, I am stuck with permanent based options against those matches, maybe some spell based answer would have more odds of me actually finding it.
Please let me know your thoughts on those matchs and cards
I've also found a properly-built Burn deck to be a total nightmare, but I've only played it once in the last six or seven tournaments I've been to. Is it way more popular since the GP and I just haven't seen it? Is it a local meta-game thing, or did you just get super unlucky on your matches for the day? Even Chicago players are doing things other than burning people down, and it's like the burn capital of burn country.
Izzet Charm is fine since it can kill their really brutal creatures (Guide and Eidolon) and can maybe stop one of their bigger burn spells, but I can't imagine that it's the last piece of the puzzle for beating them. It's just not very effective at stopping Skullcracks in response to Baloths, which seems to be what killed you. Finks does seem better than Baloth because it starts helping you a turn sooner, and burners will likely hold their Skullcrack until you're at 4 mana for Baloth anyway so it's more likely to gain you 2 instead of 0 and can still trade with their creatures in combat. I think a better option than either one might be Courser of Kruphix. I haven't liked the card in Scapeshift, but it could be really, really good against burn. It gains life incrementally so it's more powerful against Skullcrack, it blocks and kills Guide and Eidolon in combat, it plays toward both racing and controlling by helping you hit land drops while drawing action, and you have the two extra ramp spells so it's even better for you than most. You could also try something like Primal Command, and make your game plan to cantrip if you can, get Coursers out, and use Primal Command to hopefully put the game away by gaining 7 and finding Wurmcoil or Thragtusk or whatever.
So anyway, I'm not sure. Burn sucks for me, too, but there are certainly options available in green to help.
GBx hasn't really been a hard matchup for me, but I've also never had them bring in Slaughter Games, and I've never even seen an Extirpate cast in Modern. I have played against Slaughter Games before, but only from R/G Tron, and based on the recommendation of several people on this board I have Inferno Titan to help. Those jokers are running Boil now, so it's good to have something up your sleeve that can still kill them. I notice that you don't have any cards in your sideboard that act as a way to mitigate damage done by Tectonic Edge and Fulminator Mage. Have you considered something like Loaming Shaman or Primal Command?
BGx decks don't feel terrible to me, but my maindeck has 2 Telling Time, 2 Gifts Ungiven, and 1 Noxious Revival which make it much easier to play against the discard. All I sideboard is +1 Memory's Journey +1 Inferno Titan for -1 Pact of Negation -1 Gigadrowse and that seems to be working just fine. I even cut the last Baloth from my board because it didn't even feel good enough coming in for free off a Liliana +1 activation. There's a discussion a few pages back about how to beat cards like Slaughter Games and Extirpate, and I think the general consensus was that we have three options: 1) Run a powerful enough creature package in the board that we can win anyway (Inferno Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Oona, etc), 2) Get really cute and run a sideboard a Research//Development, 3) Cast Shadow of Doubt to stop them from searching our library.
If you need a sideboard to beat Burn and Jund, then it's going to have to come at the expense of weakening other post-board matches. Finks is certainly fine against both decks - it gains life and blocks their little red dudes, and lives through Liliana to block Tarmogoyfs and stuff - but it's going to be dead against everything else. Huntmaster seems really mediocre, even in something like a RUG Midrange list, and requiring two removal spells isn't helping. The quality of creatures in Modern is really high, and getting two 2/2s and two life for four mana doesn't seem to add up to a winning scenario when everyone else has much bigger creatures for much cheaper, and a reasonable ability to stop Huntmaster from flipping. Witchbane Orb does sound good, and I'd be really interested in your results if you take it for a spin. If it stopped Liliana from making us discard then it would be a shoe-in, but turning off Thoughtseizes, burn spells, etc, still seems good enough to make the cut.
Hope that helps!
If people are frequently extracting your scapeshifts with uncounterable spells, it's time to play a different deck.
I think the 4 toughness on baloth is useful vs other red decks like twin or ur delver. But baloth isn't that great of a card.
The problem with witchbane orb is that it doesn't stop turn 1-2 discard. You're going to get rolled by what ever threat they stick. Stopping discard on turns 3+ isn't that great as this deck has a strong mid/late game post board. If there was a way to play chalice for 1 on turn 1 I'd tweak the deck to make it work (simian spirit guide and gemstone caverns don't count).
Wurmcoil is the best card vs BGx.
This deck is doing bigger and better things at turns 3+
Our turn one plays should involve a turn 1 search for tomorrow or serum vision to focus on turn 3+.
If you are confused about why Izzet charm is so good in this deck let's review all the modes and how they pertain to the modern format.
Mode 1) Turn 3 Karn, Nope, Turn 3 Lilly, Nope, Sphinx Rev for a Billion, Nope, The tail end of a counter war, A greedy chord, Nope, Counter burn spells from the burn deck!
Mode 2) Kill all the x/2's! From Dark Confident to Aven Mindcensor to Steel Overseer to Eidolon of the Great Revel, this mode has your back in dealing with problem creatures.
Mode 3) Dig Dig Dig, the game has gone long and mode 1 & 2 are no longer relevant, time to find the answer, or protect the answer. Sometimes you want Scapeshift in the graveyard. Think, Sin Collector's ETB trigger on the stack, you have snapcaster, scapeshift and Izzet charm in your hand and maybe a land. Cast Izzet charm, mode draw two discard two. We draw land, electrolyze, discard land scapeshift. Cast Electrolyze while Sin Collector's ETB trigger still on the stack, Kill Sin Collector and another x/1, draw from Electrolyze. Reveal, snapcaster, land, and the card drawn from Electrolyze. Possibly kill them next turn with snapcaster, targeting scapeshift. You could also very well loot into snapcaster if he isn't already in your hand. Even if you don't loot into a snapcaster or have him in your hand, having Scapeshift in the yard instead of exiled now makes your snaps in your deck live kills. You can even loot in response to something horrible being cast at the moment, an example might be with 4 mana open someone is trying to resolve a Geist of Saint Traft, ok cool, let's see if we can dig for a remand or a cryptic command (to start chaining tap/draw).
This control deck isn't about card advantage (to a degree), it's about playing lands and crafting a perfect turn. Survival.
Don't let other people tell you Izzet Charm is garbage they just haven't learned how to fully maximize on all of it's potential.
Decks that could bring in slaughter games, you should put in Vendilion Cliques, and Cast it on their draw step the turn they will have four mana available.
I feel Peer through Depths is inferior to Telling Time. The information you reveal with what you are getting is damaging and will cost you games. Also Peer doesn't play well with sideboard creature cards.
You can do neat things with Telling Time and shuffle effects. Also you can hide your win con for the turn you need it, without having to worry about it being taken by hand disruption.
B/G Games can be rough, but more often then not they lack the pressure needed to close the game before you top deck Scapeshift. Obstinate Baloth is a really good card against them, It's not a novelty. It's a real problem for them and it augments how they use Lilana, and even thoughtseize. Just gaining life, using him as a blocker along side of Sakura Tribe Elder to mitigate damage is usually enough to drag the game out to a winning scapeshift.
I went undefeated in the swiss (only gave 1 game to Melira Pod) at a PTQ in Maitland, FL (216 people). I intentionally drew rounds 7 and 8 to make top 8. Lost in top 8 to mana screw (I ain't even mad) to the mirror.
5th http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/khans-tarkir-ptq-maitland-2014-07-24
Booooooooo!
slaughter games is a turn 4 spell, so shenanigans like mindbreak trap in the deck or board are possible. not to mention it makes lots of other random unstoppable cards go away for good.
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on another note my problem with obstinate baloth against black green is it often is staring down a 4/5 tarmogoyf by the time liliana causes it to come down off of her discard ability. my opponent will either make me sac a creature or send his bigger goyf into my baloth.
worse thing they do ontop of all of that discard spells though is knee cap you with fulminator mage in the main or sideboard.
the need for leyline of sanctity in the sideboard had me wondering if Red green white might be plausible, one would be for going cantrips though???
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2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
Other Spells 29
4 Scapeshift
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Search For Tomrrow
4 Remand
3 Electrolyze
2 Repeal
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Izzet Charm
2 Cryptic Command
1 Firespout
1 Farseek
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Breeding Pool
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Reflecting Pool
2 Island
2 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Nature's Claim
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Counterflux
1 Firespout
1 Dispel
1 Combust
Notes:
1) I plan on adding another Cryptic Command, a single Flooded Grove, and a fourth Steam Vents in the next week or two when I can budget for them.
2) I put this together without having played the deck so I took the "advice" of people who have proven lists. I am still learning how to play the deck optimally so I don't really know a lot of the nuances and value plays.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
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At the PTQ I ran Park's list from GP Minneapolis card for card, for reference:
3 snapcaster mage
4 serum visions
4 search for tomorrow
4 scapeshift
3 izzet charm
2 electrolyze
2 repeal
3 cryptic command
4 remand
3 forest
2 mountain
4 steam vents
4 stomping grounds
2 breeding pool
2 valakut the molten pinnacle
1 flooded grove
3 misty rainforest (couldn't find a cascade bluffs in time)
3 obstinate baloth
2 vendilion clique
2 ancient grudge
2 relic of progentius
1 batterskull
1 engineered explosive
2 swan song
2 anger of the gods
I'll fast fwd to Rd 6, even being new to the deck and never having played Modern I was 4-1 with my only loss being because I was so new that I didn't know 2 valakut 5 mtns was 0 triggers instead of 10
Rd 6: Kiki Pod
Game 1, My hand is repeal/cc/ramp & lands, he resolves a turn 3 Pod off a bird, I debate between bouncing the birds eot (hindsight was correct) but was hoping he'd miss his land so I mainphase repeal his Pod. He hits his land and pods up to a voice, I draw izzet charm and kill the voice and cast a tribe elder or search. He casts another voice, pods it for a deceiver exarch, untaps pod and pods up to an archmage. I doodle around with holding off damage with cryptics and stuff but ultimately can't find a scapeshift before he kills me.
Side out: 2 snapcaster mage, 3 serum visions (thought snap is slow and I hated serum visions all day)
Side in: 2 anger, 1 ancient grudge, 1 relic, 1 explosives
Game 2, Basically the same except I can't find an anger or scapeshift in time and he has a spellskite in play pretty quickly to protect his archmage. He's from my LGS so I talk to him a bit after the match, he said he thinks the matchup is heavily in his favor since archmage is pretty easy to protect and I can't win while it's out.
Rd 7: Scapeshift
I lose both games, mostly due to keeping really poor hands. No experience with the deck didn't give me an indication on when to mull. My hand game 2 I'm still not sure on: Stomping Grounds, Forest, Search for Tomorrows x2, Remand x2, Izzet Charm. He ended up Remanding my Searchs 3 times and I hit my 3rd land while he was on his 7th, might keep it in the dark G1 again but probably not against a deck with countermagic ever again.
I drop at 4-3, despite an abysmal record I went in with 0 games with the deck or the format.
Today went 3-1 at my LGS's win-a-box
I changed the list a little, I went with 25 lands > 24 lands 1 serum visions, 4 peer > 3 telling time 1 serum visions, 2/4 > 3/3 snap/cc, and put in 2 farseek over the last 2 serum visions. Sideboard I think I took out 2 relics, 2 cliques, 1 batterskull for 1 teferi, 1 gigadrowse, 2 inferno titans , 1 shatterstorm. I disliked relics and cliques yesterday and my meta tends to be heavier on affinity and decks I'd get into counterwars with. I also thought inferno titans would be good against Pod and wanted a chance to test it.
I think I much prefer this version, it's obviously more combo oriented and has a stronger game. As others have mentioned though, peer basically serves as either counterspells 9-12 or scape 5-8, it doesn't grab sideboard cards very well but I think that's just the consideration you make in deck construction.
Rd 1: Burn
Game 1, I blow him out with a turn 6 or 7 scape really easily, I had Remand/Izzet charm still at 12 life.
Side out: 2 farseek, 2 remand
Side in: 1 explosives, 2 baloth, 1 teferi
Game 2, I'm burned out the turn before I can scape him out. Turn 1 he bolts me, turn 2 zealot, turn 3 bolt and marauders so I'm down to 9 but have 4 lands now, which I noticed it when the deck basically gets "turned on" and can start casting a ramp spell plus an interactive card the same turn. I charm his zealot and peer, where I see scape/land/baloth/cryptic/peer and I'm reminded why a lot of people prefer telling time over peer. I take cryptic and start chaining them to tap his team and draw or bounce a guy, but he continues to beat down with guys.
Side out: 4 peer, 2 remand
Side in: 1 explosives, 2 baloth, 1 teferi, 2 anger
Game 3, I mulligan into a somewhat solid 6: Stomping ground, Steam Vents, Search, Search, Electrolyze, Cryptic. He completely blows me out, turn 1 I suspend and he casts Vexing Devils, I take the 4 down to 16 since he'll probably connect next turn anyway. Turn 2 I draw Repeal and play vents tapped, he casts an Eidolon. Turn 3 I untap and draw Remand and miss my land drop so I hold up Remand over suspending the other Search (fearing a Marauders from him). Eidolon attacks me down to 14 and attempts a 2nd Eidolon, I Remand and go down to 12 but draw a land. Turn 4, Search comes off suspend and dings me down to 10 and I draw another land, so I have 4 lands in play with Search, Electrolyze, Cryptic, Repeal, Land so I pass since he'll inevitably go for Eidolon next turn. He immediately attacks me down to 8 and recasts his 2nd Eidolon, I decide counter/draw instead of bounce because I'm afraid of his clock and I don't have Peers to help me find Scapeshift, thankfuly I draw a charm though. Turn 5 I draw into another land, I play my 5th land while holding Search, Electrolyze, Cryptic, Repeal, Land so I suspend my search and pass holding up either Cryptic or Electroylze. He swings and I'm at 6, then attempts a Marauders and I decide to counter/bounce; however, I should have probably drawn instead since he immediately recasts Eidolon. Turn 6, my Search goes to 1, I draw a farseek, and play a 6th land with Electrolyze, Repeal, Farseek in hand now. I decide to immediately Electrolyze his guy so I can Farseek immediately and thin my deck in hopes of getting closer to scapeshifting, Eidolon's trigger from Electrolyze dings me down to 4 and I draw another land from it, I then farseek into my 7th land. He untaps and finishes me with a Flames of the Blood Hand.
Rd 2: UR Twin
I don't remember much of this match, I do recall game 1 that I combo'd him out really fast.
Side out: 2 farseek, 2 electrolyze, 1 snapcaster
Side in: 1 teferi, 1 explosives, 1 gigadrowse, 2 swan song
Game 2, I recall being in control pretty much the whole game, him tapping out for a batterskull turn 5 that I Remand and recasting it turn 6 and I repeal the token. Then I remember having 7 lands in play with a Cryptic, Charm, and some other stuff in hand to put in a pretty favorable position and I mistakenly let a Deceiver Exarch resolve that tapped a Flooded Grove and left me access to only 3 blue sources when he went for Splinter Twin main phase so he combo'd me out.
Game 3, I play a relatively disruptive game and he attempts to just aggro me with snapcaster/pestermite beats, I recall him attacking me down to 4 life and I untap with 8 lands in play and a Scape, Remand, Teferi, Swan, Charm in hand. I wasn't confidant enough to go for Scape tsince he has 5 cards in hand, so I pass. He swings for lethal and I go for Teferi, to extract any countermagic from him, he lets it resolve so I block snap with it. He attempts to Izzet charm to kill it but I swan song the charm and he passes. I untap with teferi in play and safely scape him for lethal.
Rd 3: UW Tron
Rd 4: RG Tron
I win both of these matches really easily 2-0, Tron is an extremely favorable matchup I've noticed.
I feel good about going 3-1, but I'm not sure about my burn match. I could have potentially played a few things differently but ultimately it feels really unfavorable, especially with the peer version of the deck. Does anyone have sideboard advice for what instant/sorceries are solid in this matchup?
I have a PTQ in a couple weeks, this is the list I plan to run:
2 snapcaster mage
3 izzet charm
2 electrolyze
2 repeal
4 search for tomorrow
2 farseek
4 scapeshift
4 peer through the depths
4 cryptic command
4 remand
3 forest
2 mountain
4 steam vents
4 stomping grounds
2 breeding pool
2 valakut the molten pinnacle
1 flooded grove
4 misty rainforest
2 obstinate baloth
1 ancient grudge
1 nature's claim
1 shatterstorm
1 grafdigger's cage
1 engineered explosive
1 batterskull
1 teferi, mage of zhalfir
1 shadow of doubt
2 swan song
2 anger of the gods
1 spellskite
Also I encountered this post a page or two back and I'm really curious:
Can anyone explain this?
I'll fast fwd to Rd 6, even being new to the deck and never having played Modern I was 4-1 with my only loss being because I was so new that I didn't know 2 valakut 5 mtns was 0 triggers instead of 10
Also I encountered this post a page or two back and I'm really curious:
Can anyone explain this?[/quote]
I'm a bit new to as well, can someone explain why + 5 mountains means 0 triggers? I was under the impression that its 5 OR MORE so that it should equal 5 triggers upon entered with valakut.
also I'm not sure about the thing, but what I'm guessing is that if you have 2 valakuts in play and even a few mountains, if they removed all your basic mountains, you can get at least 3 mountains (dual lands) into play at the same time its enough Valabolts to kill someone
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The bottom part is correct. With two Valakuts (either in play or in the library), you only can easily kill with three or four (sometimes even two) new Mountains, provided that you have enough already in play to make Kut trigger at all.
So, you need each Mountain to see five other Mountains, that's why getting a Valakut (or two) + 5 Mountains, when you have no Mountains in play, results in 0 triggers.
That's also why Strawberry's scenario works. Let's say you have 4 Mountains left in your library, but 2 others already in play. You can sac 6 non-Mountains for Scapeshift and gets 2 Valakut plus the 4 remaining Mountains. That will trigger each Valakut 4 times as each of the Mountains entering the battlefield will see at least other 5 Mountains (because you do control 6 Mountains now -> 2 that were already in play + 4 you got with Scapeshift), dealing a total of 24 damage.
It's kinda late at night here and I'm sleepy, hope I got this right!
EDIT: Nyktos was faster
You need a minimum of 6 to trigger valakut
the card reads "if you control five OTHER mountains," so like my embarrassing loss in g3 at a ptq, 2 valakut 5 mtns is 0 triggers
I'm thinking he's saying: suppose you have x mtns in your deck where x<6 and y mtns in play. As long as x+y=6, then you can scape for a max of 6x damage still.
The first list in Thursdayisgod is one of the ones with the best performance this season (I believe Tian won GP Minn with it, if not he was 2nd?). It's a wonderful starting point. i'd say the slots you can fiddle with include: 1x Breeding Pool, 2x Repeals, 3x Telling Time(Which are missing from the list in his post). Otherwise everything else is pretty stock and i wouldn't recommend changing it.
There are also a lot of things you can do with the SB. Personally, i think it's wrong to not run the Titans. They can really do work in the GBx MUs. (Which are running rampant at the PTQ scene at the moment, by the way.) There's also the option of removing all Affinity hate and hoping to dodge it all day, for more slots.
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