For playing vs KCI, I have a hard time choosing between countering or let KCI resolve then shatter. If resolved, how likely does it fizzle? I know with scrawler+kci, it almost cannot fizzle. If only 3-4 artifacts in play, can you just let kci resolve and just pray they don't go off?
It's actually hopeless from the moment they present their deck to cut. You should immediately concede the match and go get some food and lament your bad beats.
Joking aside,it depends. What are you playing? Are you going to win next turn? Does your deck need a while to set up. Ifw you are going to win next turn and you have the ability to counter KCI, then obviously yes, no brainer. If you aren't going to be able to win for 3-4 more turns then save your resources and plan it out. It really depends on the board state.
That said, if you don't counter two or three artifacts and a KCI can quickly be 3-4 cards drawn and 6-8 mana generated. They may fizzle that turn but have a good chance of going off the next. They could also have one of the non-loop ways of closing the game like Sanctum, Hangerback and Emrakul.
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
So, I was testing Cheerios, and Artificer's Assistant is SO good in that, I'm wondering if it has a spot in KCI. It would be incredible early as a 1-drop filter, and mid-combo is makes it impossible to fizzle... Thoughts?
Yeah really good card potential. When comboing to scry away lands is really effective. Trouble is to have 1 in the deck and in play because you don't want to draw it.
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Was an old School Blue Player during Revised. Now I play modern.
GreenTron, Aggro Burn, Devoted Company Variants, and Off Meta Brewer
On the April 16th episode of First Strike Podcast pro player Shaheen Soorani (who played KCI at the recent PT) stated that The Antiquities War is going to be a very solid inclusion in this deck; a 1-card combo from the sideboard that will push this over the top vs RIP & Stony Silence.
What I have been discovering is Myr retriever causes completed combo rather than digging for more cards type of combo.
The pyrite spell bomb is better than requiring 2 myr retriever to pick themselves for grapeshot.
In terms of widest probability of win con. Pyrite spell bomb is solid because it can even be used to draw card, with Mox opal and myr retriever it is almost unfair.
The power of mindstone plays magically. It helps support the turn 3 Krark-clan option and the card draw with a Mox opal is 1 card draw.
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Was an old School Blue Player during Revised. Now I play modern.
GreenTron, Aggro Burn, Devoted Company Variants, and Off Meta Brewer
What I have been discovering is Myr retriever causes completed combo rather than digging for more cards type of combo.
The pyrite spell bomb is better than requiring 2 myr retriever to pick themselves for grapeshot.
In terms of widest probability of win con. Pyrite spell bomb is solid because it can even be used to draw card, with Mox opal and myr retriever it is almost unfair.
The power of mindstone plays magically. It helps support the turn 3 Krark-clan option and the card draw with a Mox opal is 1 card draw.
I think you might be missing some iterations of the loop. You should always end up with +1 mana or +1 card if you have the loop. Yes, two myr can endlessly return each other for a neutral loop but by then you should have seen at least one artifact that draws you a card allowing you to get infinite draw. If you are missing Trawler then neither card is going to help.
I think pyrite spellbomb is the most versatile win condition but not the most efficient. It has some utility in the early game against decks like humans and burn and being one mana is easy to loop through Trawler. IMO Aetherflux Resevoir is the most efficient on MTGO and the easiest to explain IRL but is not nearly as useful prior to the turn you win.
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
Cast KCI, bring BACK a Myr/Trawler...? Is he win-more or inevitability or resilience?
I could see it as a one-of. I do think he is resilience but might be win-more not being an artifact himself. I opened one at the pre-release so I will be trying him out.
I'm more interested in Antiquities War as an alternate win condition, especially out of the board against stony silences. I really want to kill someone with a 5/5 mox or Darksteel Citadel.
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
Check my math, but I think we go infinite mana and card draw with KCI, Teshar, a draw card, and EITHER Myr or Trawler...
sac draw card, sac creature, either myr/trawler returns the 1 CMC draw and we have 4 mana. Play 1 CMC -> 3 mana, Creature returns, rinse and repeat.
Correct.
It certainly adds some new avenues. I'm testing it out and it seems like a lot of upside for one slot. Not being an artifact comes up occasionally but the times it has an non-trawler/retriever artifact wouldn't have helped anyway. Some things against it is it's 4 mana; It comes down a turn too late for modern (unless we have mox). The other is that it necessitates a swap from Grove of the Burnwillows to Glimmervoid or Aether Hub.
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
I was thinking about some weird tech earlier. Not really the right shell, but Teshar + 2 Ballistas/Walkers for 0 = infinite recursion. Seems abusable somehow. Maybe Altar of the Brood? The issue is ending the loop.
Anyone going to try running a couple new karn in the sideboard? Seems like a brilliant plan B and route around Stony silence. I realise our plan B isn't bad as it is, but karn seems very decent here.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Hey everyone! Looking at getting into this deck, will be building Matt Nass most recent list. I havent been finding a lot of gameplay vids or guides for the deck and i'm wondering if anyone can point me towards some good gameplay to watch. I'm also curious as to what peoples opinion on good or bad matchups are vs T1 and T2 decks.
With a Trawler it turn ANY card we cast into anything from he GY for 1 extra mana. If you have a 1-drop it's 2 net mana and hopefully card draw every cast. If you have a 2 drop, it's 1 net mana. It loops WAY better than Retriever. It's pricier, but you don't have to be as careful saccing early. Sac all of your 2-drops to cast it and trawler, you're still fine as long as you can drop SOMETHING.
It completely eliminates that awkward loop we all try to remember right.
Mishra's Self-replicator seems like a win-more to me. If you have a trawler and a KCI it's hard to fizzle at that point - retriever won't fizzle and costs 3 less. What situation is Replicator better? I don't see it doing anything until you are winning.
The loop really isn't that confusing, just sac extra artifacts during the pay costs part of a spell/ability activation and stack triggers correctly, now if it reduces the number of clicks on MTGO you might have an argument. That's the reasoning for including Aetherflux Reservoir. I don't think it will or be worth including a 5cmc card to do so.
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
Replicator doesn't need a Mox, ANY draw engine goes infinite with it. It also turns a 1-drop into the ability to retrieve another 1-drop (or a 2, or a KCI).
Also, the sequence is REALLY easy to screw up. I've tried writing it out, and it's like 11 steps in the right order.
Methinks not really in the market for a 5-drop brick that rots in my hand before I can cast KCI and doesn't do anything without Trawler. We're never bottlenecked on mana during combo turns, just cards. Retriever always acts as a copy of the best egg in your graveyard and actually has utility without Trawler before the combo turn for returning EE or whatever.
Screwing up the loops isn't an excuse to run narrower/weaker combo pieces to compensate for unfamiliarity with the deck. I'd still rather just run the best possible version of the deck. It honestly isn't that hard to remember what conditions you need to blow them up.
You can run it as your fun-of if you really want to, but you really can't afford to dilute number of cantrip eggs too much or the deck starts getting clunky and fizzles more often. It's also why I now think Whir is generally a trap after testing it for a few weeks.
Going to try 2-of The Antiquities War in every tourney next week as another way around the white enchantments, taking place of the Wurmcoils. Karn is the other option to fill that spot but I'm not made of $$$ unfortunately.
It's actually hopeless from the moment they present their deck to cut. You should immediately concede the match and go get some food and lament your bad beats.
Joking aside,it depends. What are you playing? Are you going to win next turn? Does your deck need a while to set up. Ifw you are going to win next turn and you have the ability to counter KCI, then obviously yes, no brainer. If you aren't going to be able to win for 3-4 more turns then save your resources and plan it out. It really depends on the board state.
That said, if you don't counter two or three artifacts and a KCI can quickly be 3-4 cards drawn and 6-8 mana generated. They may fizzle that turn but have a good chance of going off the next. They could also have one of the non-loop ways of closing the game like Sanctum, Hangerback and Emrakul.
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
GreenTron, Aggro Burn, Devoted Company Variants, and Off Meta Brewer
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
The pyrite spell bomb is better than requiring 2 myr retriever to pick themselves for grapeshot.
In terms of widest probability of win con. Pyrite spell bomb is solid because it can even be used to draw card, with Mox opal and myr retriever it is almost unfair.
The power of mindstone plays magically. It helps support the turn 3 Krark-clan option and the card draw with a Mox opal is 1 card draw.
GreenTron, Aggro Burn, Devoted Company Variants, and Off Meta Brewer
I think you might be missing some iterations of the loop. You should always end up with +1 mana or +1 card if you have the loop. Yes, two myr can endlessly return each other for a neutral loop but by then you should have seen at least one artifact that draws you a card allowing you to get infinite draw. If you are missing Trawler then neither card is going to help.
I think pyrite spellbomb is the most versatile win condition but not the most efficient. It has some utility in the early game against decks like humans and burn and being one mana is easy to loop through Trawler. IMO Aetherflux Resevoir is the most efficient on MTGO and the easiest to explain IRL but is not nearly as useful prior to the turn you win.
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Cast KCI, bring BACK a Myr/Trawler...? Is he win-more or inevitability or resilience?
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
I could see it as a one-of. I do think he is resilience but might be win-more not being an artifact himself. I opened one at the pre-release so I will be trying him out.
I'm more interested in Antiquities War as an alternate win condition, especially out of the board against stony silences. I really want to kill someone with a 5/5 mox or Darksteel Citadel.
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
sac draw card, sac creature, either myr/trawler returns the 1 CMC draw and we have 4 mana. Play 1 CMC -> 3 mana, Creature returns, rinse and repeat.
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
Correct.
It certainly adds some new avenues. I'm testing it out and it seems like a lot of upside for one slot. Not being an artifact comes up occasionally but the times it has an non-trawler/retriever artifact wouldn't have helped anyway. Some things against it is it's 4 mana; It comes down a turn too late for modern (unless we have mox). The other is that it necessitates a swap from Grove of the Burnwillows to Glimmervoid or Aether Hub.
I'm currently testing 1 Teshar with 3 retrievers.
Here is my test list:
3 Myr Retriever
4 Scrap Trawler
1 Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle
Spells
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
3 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Ichor Wellspring
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
3 Mind Stone
4 Mox Opal
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Terrarion
3 Buried Ruin
2 Forest
4 Glimmervoid
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Spire of Industry
1 Plains
4 Darksteel Citadel
I might drop a Buried Ruin for a Aether Hub. Aether Grid and Antiquties War have been solid in the sb.
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
I was thinking about some weird tech earlier. Not really the right shell, but Teshar + 2 Ballistas/Walkers for 0 = infinite recursion. Seems abusable somehow. Maybe Altar of the Brood? The issue is ending the loop.Nevermind, not an ETB.
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
Mishra's Self-Replicator is HOUSE.
With a Trawler it turn ANY card we cast into anything from he GY for 1 extra mana. If you have a 1-drop it's 2 net mana and hopefully card draw every cast. If you have a 2 drop, it's 1 net mana. It loops WAY better than Retriever. It's pricier, but you don't have to be as careful saccing early. Sac all of your 2-drops to cast it and trawler, you're still fine as long as you can drop SOMETHING.
It completely eliminates that awkward loop we all try to remember right.
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
The loop really isn't that confusing, just sac extra artifacts during the pay costs part of a spell/ability activation and stack triggers correctly, now if it reduces the number of clicks on MTGO you might have an argument. That's the reasoning for including Aetherflux Reservoir. I don't think it will or be worth including a 5cmc card to do so.
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Also, the sequence is REALLY easy to screw up. I've tried writing it out, and it's like 11 steps in the right order.
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
Screwing up the loops isn't an excuse to run narrower/weaker combo pieces to compensate for unfamiliarity with the deck. I'd still rather just run the best possible version of the deck. It honestly isn't that hard to remember what conditions you need to blow them up.
You can run it as your fun-of if you really want to, but you really can't afford to dilute number of cantrip eggs too much or the deck starts getting clunky and fizzles more often. It's also why I now think Whir is generally a trap after testing it for a few weeks.
Going to try 2-of The Antiquities War in every tourney next week as another way around the white enchantments, taking place of the Wurmcoils. Karn is the other option to fill that spot but I'm not made of $$$ unfortunately.
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G