I run 4 sakura and 4 hour of promise. It's worth to run 3 hours, 1 wood elf and 4 bolts instead? I'm in the full combo plan with just 2 anger of the gods and answear so, why the change is worth it? I also run 3 khalni heart expedition.
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are asking. If the question is 'Why is it worth it to run removal?', then my answer is that the full combo race does not always favor us as we can never win before turn four and aren't hugely favored to have a turn 4 win anyway. So, to play to our inevitability of winning on turn 5 or later, we often run removal to slow down decks looking to consistently kill on 4 or even sometimes 3. This is mostly aggro matchups like burn and faster combos like storm. In both of these matchups, removing key creatures is very important.
Thank you for your very aggressive post. I don't have more results because I don't use MTGO and am too poor and busy with school to go to large events. I can only justify going to events that I am judging and thus getting paid to do.
The only reasons I can imagine why people are maxing out on stomping ground first is because they have seen pro's do it or are coming from the breach shift lists. Every time you see a pro try out the deck at a GP, they seem to not know the deck well and run 4 stomping grounds. Then they get destroyed by Aggro decks and miss out on top8.
So why don't you have more results, since you know the deal and you use 4 taigas ?
I feel like I must be playing the deck wrong because I cannot imagine running 4 Stomping Ground. I could get behind 3 and 3 Cinder Glade to Stomping Ground, but there's no way I'm going past that.
Here's a little background on me. (I played Valakut the whole time it was legal in Standard. I played Valakut a little bit in Extended.) I played RG Breach during Pod/Treasure Cruise Delver because it matched up well with those decks. I played 4 Stomping Ground. Cinder Glade hadn't been printed at the time. When I started Titanshift, I saw lists with 2 Cinder Glade and I theoretically hated it. I did NOT want to play new cards in my deck, especially since I had RG Breach 100% foiled. But I started using some and finally landed on 4. I can't see going back from that.
*I figured this is worth pointing out as well. I believe that I have a 50/50 matchup vs. Burn and Affinity. More importantly, I know how to approach the match. I would not feel as confidently with 4 Stomping Ground in those matchups, but that may just be me.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
That sounds logic. I got trashed by a CoCo that went infinite mana on turn 3 in a game. I'll be cutting the Khanli Heart for Lightning Bolts and test it out. Thanks.
Thank you for your very aggressive post. I don't have more results because I don't use MTGO and am too poor and busy with school to go to large events. I can only justify going to events that I am judging and thus getting paid to do.
I just find it funny that you called out on people not knowing the deck to justify their decision to play 4 stomping grounds while you don't play the deck on competitively .
First of all Id say most lists play 2 forests. And you cant go valakut into glade ramp, which is way worse than the 2 points your taking.
You often dont want to get basic forests also, and you cant wait to have glade come into play untapped.
Also, what do you think are your worst matchups that you cant afford to pay for stomping ground ? Burn and affinity ? If those are the unfavorable and youre winning against the rest please send me your decklist I will for sure play it on some events.
Just because I haven't made it out to large events does not mean I don't play the deck competitively and well. Also, I have long argued that 2 forests is too few. And the percentages on getting a seven card hand that can't cast a ramp spell on turn 2 with the manabase I use are so minuscule as to be laughable. And if you do get that hand, just mulligan it. 4 stomping grounds are unnecessary. Even if you don't think the extra life points are relevant, the percentages of going from 2-4 just aren't that big of a difference. And the likelihood that you have to have the 3rd one on turn 3 to cast something is also laughable. Additionally, with the manabase I use, I find Burn and affinity to be totally winnable matchups. My biggest issue lately has been storm.
Just took 2nd place at the final PPTQ of the season (29 players, 5 round swiss). I conceded for the finals as my opponent wanted to travel to the RPTQ and I won't be able to anyway.
True to form, I was on the draw every single round. Dice rolls ftw. I only took brief notes so the recount below may not be 100% accurate.
Round 1 v Abzan
G1: He curved a IOK and Thoughtseize into LOTV and gofy + decay on turn 4 for my omen. Abzan needs a specific god hand to beat us, and that's what he got.
G2: A typical 3 ramp spell into turn 4 scapeshift sealed the deal.
G3: Slightly more grindy. I laid down a relic turn 1 which delayed his tasigur a ton. He thoughtseized me on turn 2, seeing Scapeshift, Titan, 2 ramp spells and land. He took the scapeshift. He didn't have early pressure except a fulminator. On his turn 4, he casted Liliana and +1 which I responded to with pact -> baloth onto battlefield. Baloth swung into Liliana. He had another fulminator but this proved futile against the Titan 2 turns later.
Round 2 v Monowhite Taxes
G1: He played cavern turn 1 and named spirits and I was confused for a bit. I suspended Search. Turn 2 he lays a selfless spirit. I then tapped out for farseek. Turn 3 ended the game. Leonin arbiter came down, he Ghostquarter-strip mined me. I paid the tax to find the land off my search, and passed it back. He cast a second arbiter, and put down a tec edge. I then draw an Anger, which he responded to by sacrificing selfless spirit. Not much game to be had after that.
G2: He had a turn 1 vial. I had a bolt for his turn 2 selfless spirit. I then ramped a bit. He put down another selfless spirit, cast Thalia Guardian of Thraben, vials in Leonin Arbiter in response to my Primeval Titan trigger while I am tapped out, paths the titan immediately, and also GQs my land. I die.
Round 3 v Burn
G1: Game 1 v burn depends on who's on the play. He's on the play. As usual, I lose 1 turn behind even after Anger kills a guide and 2 swiftspears
G2: He has a turn 2 rain of gore anticipating baloth lifegain shenanigans. Unfortunately I'm sick of losing to burn to the point that I'm running 4 leylines of sanctity and only 1 baloth, so it won't have been of much use. Anyway, he took 1 turn off not dealing any damage to me. I went 3 ramp spells into turn 4 Titan and swung once for the win.
G3: I was a bit lucky here. Mulled to 6 with a leyline. He mulled down to 4. Turn 0 I put the leyline down, he immediately extends the hand. He then tells me he didn't want to keep a 1 lander hand.
Round 4 v Lantern
G1: This matchup is quite favoured for us. I had the 2 ramp spells into turn 4 Titan, turn 5 scapeshift hand that was a bit too quick for him.
G2: Leyline was stellar again. On turn 0, I slammed 2 leylines down and he slams 1 leyline down. Rather amusing sight and we had a laugh. I do my ramp thing. On 8 lands, I pact for Rec Sage and blows up the leyline, and scapeshifts for the win. He shows me his hand - 3 Collective Brutalities, 2 IoKs. Leyline is balls.
Round 5 - ID (3-1-1 going into top 8)
Quarterfinals v Blue Tron
G1: Going into this I thought my luck had run out. U Tron is a difficult matchup and I've played the guy on U Tron a couple of times and have only ever once won. He's been on U tron for years and is very experienced. Surprising, this game he lets both my Omen and Scapeshift resolve on 8 lands. He had Tron up but no gas. Had an opening 7 of 2 lands, 2 ramp spells, 1 omen, 1 scape, 1 titan.
G2: He looked worried as he mulls to 6. I play out an omen which gets bounced, as he thirsts for knowledge twice but finds nothing. Once again he has tron up with no payoffs. On 6 lands, I cast a Pact to check for any counterspell. He taps his only 1 open blue mana to negate it. The coast clear, I play omen again without fear, then lay down a valakut with another valukut already in play to deal 6 to him. My wood elves swing in for 1 - he's at 13. The next turn I attack again with wood elves, then I crack a fetch to dome him for 12.
Semifinals v Affinity
G1: I feel slightly favored against affinity. I kept a turn 4 titan hand. On turn 3, I Anger 3 of his critters away. Titan comes down next and swings in once.
G2: I kept a decent hand of 2 sakura tribes and some removal. He got a plating on vault skirge, and I D-Rev'ed the plating. Unfortunately, I never drew a third land and had to rely on sakuras to block-sac a massive Master of Etherium for days to manually increase my land count while taking steady damage from 2 vault skirges and 1 signal pest in the air. I top decked an Engineered Explosives, blow it on 2 to destroy his second playing and 2 vault skirges, but die on the swing back by Master of Etherium and 2 blinkmoth nexi.
G2: I didn't know what he was looking for, but he ended up mulling to 4. He expressed worry about me being on the play game 3 as well. My hand wasn't fantastic and I had to rely on drawing a green mana source (Which I did on turn 2) - I kept 2 mountains, 2 bolts, 1 D.Rev, 1 search, 1 omen. After drawing a Forest on turn 2, I fell into a control role. He never really got off the ground and the mulligan hurt him badly. I had removal for days after drawing into a Beast Within as well. At one point, I had to Omen-valakut, then bolt a 5/5 master of etherium. He did draw relatively well, dropping a second master of etherium then a cranial plating which I Beast. I burst him for 18 damage when I had a valakut and omen on the field, I cast Titan searching up 2 more valakuts. I won with an anger in hand and at 13 life.
Finals v Ponza - I concede without playing it out
Opponent wants to go to the RPTQ, I don't. I offer the hand.
Even if we played, I don't see any chance in hell of winning this matchup
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Yes, 4 leylines in my sideboard and so far they've earned their spot. I removed 2 baloths and the 2 finks for them. I've been desperate to improve my burn match like FoodChainGoblins said - there is a sea of burn decks in my meta. On a regular FNM of 12-18 players, I can expect to see 3-5 burn decks. It's miserable lol. Have tried everything from pulse, finks, more baloths, witchbane orb, life goes on, throwing in the towel and hoping to dodge but burn is a deck you have to begrudgingly respect. Then I saw some lists like Collins Mullen's and decided to gamble with the Leylines. In mRichie's magic online winning list a couple of months ago, he even ran a singleton Leyline so it can't be that bad.
First of all, good job to everyone rocking Titanshift
I would like to ask @wtyyy about those Leylines in side, do you bring them in vs only burn or there are other matchups that can be used (storm, GDS, ad naus, mirror??
Why singleton explore and not 3 Hour of Promise?
Are angers in main better than Sveltering suns, since you can cycle these in MUs that you don't need a sweeper, and are sweepers main worth it instead of ful combo commitment? (I can answer this one by myself, but still want elses opinion)
I've tried 3 Omen in my deck but having 2 copies in my hand was happening a bit too often for my liking. I found that against decks which can deal with Omen and saw them game 1, I tend to side them out anyway. So I cut the 3rd copy and had room for a ramp spell. As I started playing this deck back in the days when 4 Explores 2 Farseeks were the norm, I had gotten used to and enjoy the card draw off explore. I also like that Explore digs you out of the occasional hand when you have too many tapped lands - just put the additional one down using explore and make sure your mana is smooth the next turn. This also lets you play double valakut early instead of having to wait til a haymaker drops. That said, I think Explore is a 1 or 2 of at best as it does not guarantee the additional land.
@enmanja
I bring in leylines against Thoughtseize decks, storm, mirror, ad naus as well. If you manage to win game 1, and have it on game 2, there's the possibility of blow out since most people won't expect the rare tech from titanshift. Do note that against burn, if they saw your omen in game 2, you can bet at least 2 copies of D.Rev are coming in.
I've reached another top 8 playing 3 Hour of Promise, but I found 13 haymakers a bit top heavy for my liking. I've always liked Explore to help smooth out draws and enable land-heavy hands. I don't mind keeping a 5 land hand if I had an explore unless it's against aggro or something.
Removal-wise, I respect dredge too much to move to sweltering suns. That one time I went to a monogreen, all ramp no removal list, I lost to elves Round 1, then lost to abzan company round 2. Put back the bolts immediately after.
Hey Guys, Been awhile since I've played MTG (Competitively) getting back into it! gearing up for a modern tournament in about a month.
Really Love this deck, I used to play RUGScapshift about 4-5 years ago then played BGRWolf Run Ramp. love those decks.
trying to get a grasp on a decklist (I own pretty much every variation of cards the deck uses) and will be going into a semi-unknown meta
few things I've noticed and wonder why: some decklists either run 1-2Spellskites & others 1-3Wood Elves or Courser of Kruphix and some none of the above just the Classic package of
usually 1-4(each) Farseek/ Explore and usually 0-4Khalni Heart Expedition
is this due to meta shifts or personal preference? Hour of Promise is another one I see some list running 0 and others running 4 I assume it isn't used in versions that don't use Prismatic Omen
Lastly Huntmaster of the Fells is definitely not as great as it was back in the day (in standard) but I was honestly a little surprised to only see 1-2 copys of him in a couple of lists on MtgGoldfish, He dies easily to removal but you get 2 life + a 2/2 wolf token (The JUND player in my is coming out! give me all the 2 for 1's WUBALUBADUBDUB am I right!?) can be good vs aggro and in grindy games...
maybe I'm missing something or just wrong.
anyways...
feedback would be lovely.
Cheers!
I think i have posted this before, in this or the older threat, about the stomping ground vs cinder glade debate. Again, I would like to reiterate "you will lose less life with cinder glade, but you will also lose more games as well". There will be hands where, because of cinder glade, you don't have an uptap green in the first 2 turns. There are only 11-12 untap green, with only 2 stomping ground, in most list. That's actually not a lot, so that 6-10% increase in percentage (i trust your math ) is very relevant in the long run. Another factor is that we are not a good mulligan deck, so it would feel awful to ship a perfectly playable hand due to no untap green until turn 3. These hands happens more than one thinks, glade glade Kut, or Glade Kut Kut. Again, we are min maxing here.
I don't disagree that sometimes those 2 life matters, but time walk yourself due to not able to play an untap green first 2 turns is also a death sentence against aggro too. Sometimes you just need to shock turn 1 to bolt or search in these match up. with glade, you can mountain bolt, t2 glade, but would not be able to play on curve. Now that we have move on to the Hour of promise version, it is even more important, as we would like to not fetch forest as much as possible.
These are my experience through thousands of games with the deck ever since modern is a format. cheers
I think i have posted this before, in this or the older threat, about the stomping ground vs cinder glade debate. Again, I would like to reiterate "you will lose less life with cinder glade, but you will also lose more games as well". There will be hands where, because of cinder glade, you don't have an uptap green in the first 2 turns. There are only 11-12 untap green, with only 2 stomping ground, in most list. That's actually not a lot, so that 6-10% increase in percentage (i trust your math ) is very relevant in the long run. Another factor is that we are not a good mulligan deck, so it would feel awful to ship a perfectly playable hand due to no untap green until turn 3. These hands happens more than one thinks, glade glade Kut, or Glade Kut Kut. Again, we are min maxing here.
I don't disagree that sometimes those 2 life matters, but time walk yourself due to not able to play an untap green first 2 turns is also a death sentence against aggro too. Sometimes you just need to shock turn 1 to bolt or search in these match up. with glade, you can mountain bolt, t2 glade, but would not be able to play on curve. Now that we have move on to the Hour of promise version, it is even more important, as we would like to not fetch forest as much as possible.
These are my experience through thousands of games with the deck ever since modern is a format. cheers
I believe that my own experience is clouding my view, but I don't think I've ever had a hand where I had Cinder Glade, Cinder Glade, Valakut or Valakut, Valakut, Cinder Glade. Maybe there was a hand like that once or twice that I snap mulled if it didn't have any early relevant plays. Even replacing one of those lands with Stomping Ground doesn't do much against Aggro in my opinion. But I've probably been lucky enough not to have it happen. Ever since Cinder Glade was printed, I didn't play Valakut non stop and haven't played it at all since winning a PPTQ (also didn't play it other than at the PPTQs the last 3 weeks before winning one). I have been playing a lot of Humans and Knightfall recently, so maybe it's just that I've had oddly good luck with 4 Cinder Glade/2 Stomping Ground or I just haven't played much.
You know that results oriented players, like myself, can easily be swayed to believing certain things about certain decks or not trusting in the math aspect. I have won more than 90% of my matches with Humans, so currently I honestly think that it is near the level of GDS, Titanshift, E Tron, and Affinity. There's honestly a lot of factors involved, but I honestly feel like I could win a PPTQ with Humans. It feels that strong, even if today's testing vs. Jund had me at 50/50 only. I had some humility after today, lol.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I think i have posted this before, in this or the older threat, about the stomping ground vs cinder glade debate. Again, I would like to reiterate "you will lose less life with cinder glade, but you will also lose more games as well". There will be hands where, because of cinder glade, you don't have an uptap green in the first 2 turns. There are only 11-12 untap green, with only 2 stomping ground, in most list. That's actually not a lot, so that 6-10% increase in percentage (i trust your math ) is very relevant in the long run. Another factor is that we are not a good mulligan deck, so it would feel awful to ship a perfectly playable hand due to no untap green until turn 3. These hands happens more than one thinks, glade glade Kut, or Glade Kut Kut. Again, we are min maxing here.
I don't disagree that sometimes those 2 life matters, but time walk yourself due to not able to play an untap green first 2 turns is also a death sentence against aggro too. Sometimes you just need to shock turn 1 to bolt or search in these match up. with glade, you can mountain bolt, t2 glade, but would not be able to play on curve. Now that we have move on to the Hour of promise version, it is even more important, as we would like to not fetch forest as much as possible.
These are my experience through thousands of games with the deck ever since modern is a format. cheers
I believe that my own experience is clouding my view, but I don't think I've ever had a hand where I had Cinder Glade, Cinder Glade, Valakut or Valakut, Valakut, Cinder Glade. Maybe there was a hand like that once or twice that I snap mulled if it didn't have any early relevant plays. Even replacing one of those lands with Stomping Ground doesn't do much against Aggro in my opinion. But I've probably been lucky enough not to have it happen. Ever since Cinder Glade was printed, I didn't play Valakut non stop and haven't played it at all since winning a PPTQ (also didn't play it other than at the PPTQs the last 3 weeks before winning one). I have been playing a lot of Humans and Knightfall recently, so maybe it's just that I've had oddly good luck with 4 Cinder Glade/2 Stomping Ground or I just haven't played much.
You know that results oriented players, like myself, can easily be swayed to believing certain things about certain decks or not trusting in the math aspect. I have won more than 90% of my matches with Humans, so currently I honestly think that it is near the level of GDS, Titanshift, E Tron, and Affinity. There's honestly a lot of factors involved, but I honestly feel like I could win a PPTQ with Humans. It feels that strong, even if today's testing vs. Jund had me at 50/50 only. I had some humility after today, lol.
Ya, the above G + G + V, or V + V + G is just one of the many scenarios. Suppose your hand is forest + Glade, and you have a bolt and turn 2 ramp. When facing aggro, it might save you more life to go turn 1 stomp and bolt vs the alternative line of t1 Glade, turn2 bolt, turn3 ramp, or t1 glade, t2 ramp, t3 bolt. In a format like modern, where the first 4 turns decides a lot of games, we just don't have the luxury to take any turns off, and mana efficiency is key
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Modern
Modern
Modern
I feel like I must be playing the deck wrong because I cannot imagine running 4 Stomping Ground. I could get behind 3 and 3 Cinder Glade to Stomping Ground, but there's no way I'm going past that.
Here's a little background on me. (I played Valakut the whole time it was legal in Standard. I played Valakut a little bit in Extended.) I played RG Breach during Pod/Treasure Cruise Delver because it matched up well with those decks. I played 4 Stomping Ground. Cinder Glade hadn't been printed at the time. When I started Titanshift, I saw lists with 2 Cinder Glade and I theoretically hated it. I did NOT want to play new cards in my deck, especially since I had RG Breach 100% foiled. But I started using some and finally landed on 4. I can't see going back from that.
*I figured this is worth pointing out as well. I believe that I have a 50/50 matchup vs. Burn and Affinity. More importantly, I know how to approach the match. I would not feel as confidently with 4 Stomping Ground in those matchups, but that may just be me.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Just because I haven't made it out to large events does not mean I don't play the deck competitively and well. Also, I have long argued that 2 forests is too few. And the percentages on getting a seven card hand that can't cast a ramp spell on turn 2 with the manabase I use are so minuscule as to be laughable. And if you do get that hand, just mulligan it. 4 stomping grounds are unnecessary. Even if you don't think the extra life points are relevant, the percentages of going from 2-4 just aren't that big of a difference. And the likelihood that you have to have the 3rd one on turn 3 to cast something is also laughable. Additionally, with the manabase I use, I find Burn and affinity to be totally winnable matchups. My biggest issue lately has been storm.
Modern
True to form, I was on the draw every single round. Dice rolls ftw. I only took brief notes so the recount below may not be 100% accurate.
Round 1 v Abzan
G1: He curved a IOK and Thoughtseize into LOTV and gofy + decay on turn 4 for my omen. Abzan needs a specific god hand to beat us, and that's what he got.
G2: A typical 3 ramp spell into turn 4 scapeshift sealed the deal.
G3: Slightly more grindy. I laid down a relic turn 1 which delayed his tasigur a ton. He thoughtseized me on turn 2, seeing Scapeshift, Titan, 2 ramp spells and land. He took the scapeshift. He didn't have early pressure except a fulminator. On his turn 4, he casted Liliana and +1 which I responded to with pact -> baloth onto battlefield. Baloth swung into Liliana. He had another fulminator but this proved futile against the Titan 2 turns later.
Round 2 v Monowhite Taxes
G1: He played cavern turn 1 and named spirits and I was confused for a bit. I suspended Search. Turn 2 he lays a selfless spirit. I then tapped out for farseek. Turn 3 ended the game. Leonin arbiter came down, he Ghostquarter-strip mined me. I paid the tax to find the land off my search, and passed it back. He cast a second arbiter, and put down a tec edge. I then draw an Anger, which he responded to by sacrificing selfless spirit. Not much game to be had after that.
G2: He had a turn 1 vial. I had a bolt for his turn 2 selfless spirit. I then ramped a bit. He put down another selfless spirit, cast Thalia Guardian of Thraben, vials in Leonin Arbiter in response to my Primeval Titan trigger while I am tapped out, paths the titan immediately, and also GQs my land. I die.
Round 3 v Burn
G1: Game 1 v burn depends on who's on the play. He's on the play. As usual, I lose 1 turn behind even after Anger kills a guide and 2 swiftspears
G2: He has a turn 2 rain of gore anticipating baloth lifegain shenanigans. Unfortunately I'm sick of losing to burn to the point that I'm running 4 leylines of sanctity and only 1 baloth, so it won't have been of much use. Anyway, he took 1 turn off not dealing any damage to me. I went 3 ramp spells into turn 4 Titan and swung once for the win.
G3: I was a bit lucky here. Mulled to 6 with a leyline. He mulled down to 4. Turn 0 I put the leyline down, he immediately extends the hand. He then tells me he didn't want to keep a 1 lander hand.
Round 4 v Lantern
G1: This matchup is quite favoured for us. I had the 2 ramp spells into turn 4 Titan, turn 5 scapeshift hand that was a bit too quick for him.
G2: Leyline was stellar again. On turn 0, I slammed 2 leylines down and he slams 1 leyline down. Rather amusing sight and we had a laugh. I do my ramp thing. On 8 lands, I pact for Rec Sage and blows up the leyline, and scapeshifts for the win. He shows me his hand - 3 Collective Brutalities, 2 IoKs. Leyline is balls.
Round 5 - ID (3-1-1 going into top 8)
Quarterfinals v Blue Tron
G1: Going into this I thought my luck had run out. U Tron is a difficult matchup and I've played the guy on U Tron a couple of times and have only ever once won. He's been on U tron for years and is very experienced. Surprising, this game he lets both my Omen and Scapeshift resolve on 8 lands. He had Tron up but no gas. Had an opening 7 of 2 lands, 2 ramp spells, 1 omen, 1 scape, 1 titan.
G2: He looked worried as he mulls to 6. I play out an omen which gets bounced, as he thirsts for knowledge twice but finds nothing. Once again he has tron up with no payoffs. On 6 lands, I cast a Pact to check for any counterspell. He taps his only 1 open blue mana to negate it. The coast clear, I play omen again without fear, then lay down a valakut with another valukut already in play to deal 6 to him. My wood elves swing in for 1 - he's at 13. The next turn I attack again with wood elves, then I crack a fetch to dome him for 12.
Semifinals v Affinity
G1: I feel slightly favored against affinity. I kept a turn 4 titan hand. On turn 3, I Anger 3 of his critters away. Titan comes down next and swings in once.
G2: I kept a decent hand of 2 sakura tribes and some removal. He got a plating on vault skirge, and I D-Rev'ed the plating. Unfortunately, I never drew a third land and had to rely on sakuras to block-sac a massive Master of Etherium for days to manually increase my land count while taking steady damage from 2 vault skirges and 1 signal pest in the air. I top decked an Engineered Explosives, blow it on 2 to destroy his second playing and 2 vault skirges, but die on the swing back by Master of Etherium and 2 blinkmoth nexi.
G2: I didn't know what he was looking for, but he ended up mulling to 4. He expressed worry about me being on the play game 3 as well. My hand wasn't fantastic and I had to rely on drawing a green mana source (Which I did on turn 2) - I kept 2 mountains, 2 bolts, 1 D.Rev, 1 search, 1 omen. After drawing a Forest on turn 2, I fell into a control role. He never really got off the ground and the mulligan hurt him badly. I had removal for days after drawing into a Beast Within as well. At one point, I had to Omen-valakut, then bolt a 5/5 master of etherium. He did draw relatively well, dropping a second master of etherium then a cranial plating which I Beast. I burst him for 18 damage when I had a valakut and omen on the field, I cast Titan searching up 2 more valakuts. I won with an anger in hand and at 13 life.
Finals v Ponza - I concede without playing it out
Opponent wants to go to the RPTQ, I don't. I offer the hand.
Even if we played, I don't see any chance in hell of winning this matchup
You play 4 leyline SB ?
Can you share your list please ?
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
@Heenock - I think he said he was switching to Leyline because of the prevalence in Burn recently in his meta. But he can clarify better.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yes, 4 leylines in my sideboard and so far they've earned their spot. I removed 2 baloths and the 2 finks for them. I've been desperate to improve my burn match like FoodChainGoblins said - there is a sea of burn decks in my meta. On a regular FNM of 12-18 players, I can expect to see 3-5 burn decks. It's miserable lol. Have tried everything from pulse, finks, more baloths, witchbane orb, life goes on, throwing in the towel and hoping to dodge but burn is a deck you have to begrudgingly respect. Then I saw some lists like Collins Mullen's and decided to gamble with the Leylines. In mRichie's magic online winning list a couple of months ago, he even ran a singleton Leyline so it can't be that bad.
My deck FYI
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Stomping Ground
3 Cinder Glade
3 Forest
6 Mountain
Creatures (9)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Primeval Titan
1 Wood Elves
Spells (24)
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Farseek
2 Prismatic Omen
1 Explore
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Scapeshift
2 Summoner's Pact
2 Hour of Promise
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Beast Within
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
If there's any questions about certain card choices I'll be happy to elaborate.
Modern
First of all, good job to everyone rocking Titanshift
I would like to ask @wtyyy about those Leylines in side, do you bring them in vs only burn or there are other matchups that can be used (storm, GDS, ad naus, mirror??
Why singleton explore and not 3 Hour of Promise?
Are angers in main better than Sveltering suns, since you can cycle these in MUs that you don't need a sweeper, and are sweepers main worth it instead of ful combo commitment? (I can answer this one by myself, but still want elses opinion)
Thanks,
CHeers
I've tried 3 Omen in my deck but having 2 copies in my hand was happening a bit too often for my liking. I found that against decks which can deal with Omen and saw them game 1, I tend to side them out anyway. So I cut the 3rd copy and had room for a ramp spell. As I started playing this deck back in the days when 4 Explores 2 Farseeks were the norm, I had gotten used to and enjoy the card draw off explore. I also like that Explore digs you out of the occasional hand when you have too many tapped lands - just put the additional one down using explore and make sure your mana is smooth the next turn. This also lets you play double valakut early instead of having to wait til a haymaker drops. That said, I think Explore is a 1 or 2 of at best as it does not guarantee the additional land.
@enmanja
I bring in leylines against Thoughtseize decks, storm, mirror, ad naus as well. If you manage to win game 1, and have it on game 2, there's the possibility of blow out since most people won't expect the rare tech from titanshift. Do note that against burn, if they saw your omen in game 2, you can bet at least 2 copies of D.Rev are coming in.
I've reached another top 8 playing 3 Hour of Promise, but I found 13 haymakers a bit top heavy for my liking. I've always liked Explore to help smooth out draws and enable land-heavy hands. I don't mind keeping a 5 land hand if I had an explore unless it's against aggro or something.
Removal-wise, I respect dredge too much to move to sweltering suns. That one time I went to a monogreen, all ramp no removal list, I lost to elves Round 1, then lost to abzan company round 2. Put back the bolts immediately after.
Really Love this deck, I used to play RUGScapshift about 4-5 years ago then played BGRWolf Run Ramp. love those decks.
trying to get a grasp on a decklist (I own pretty much every variation of cards the deck uses) and will be going into a semi-unknown meta
few things I've noticed and wonder why: some decklists either run 1-2 Spellskites & others 1-3 Wood Elves or Courser of Kruphix and some none of the above just the Classic package of
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
also noticed lists varying a bunch in the
4 Explore,
4 Khalni Heart Expedition
is this due to meta shifts or personal preference?
Hour of Promise is another one I see some list running 0 and others running 4 I assume it isn't used in versions that don't use Prismatic Omen
Lastly Huntmaster of the Fells is definitely not as great as it was back in the day (in standard) but I was honestly a little surprised to only see 1-2 copys of him in a couple of lists on MtgGoldfish, He dies easily to removal but you get 2 life + a 2/2 wolf token (The JUND player in my is coming out! give me all the 2 for 1's WUBALUBADUBDUB am I right!?) can be good vs aggro and in grindy games...
maybe I'm missing something or just wrong.
anyways...
feedback would be lovely.
Cheers!
3rd at Wisconsin States 2012
Standard:
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Next Lvl ZombiesB//
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JUND Whedon
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Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Sig.
I don't disagree that sometimes those 2 life matters, but time walk yourself due to not able to play an untap green first 2 turns is also a death sentence against aggro too. Sometimes you just need to shock turn 1 to bolt or search in these match up. with glade, you can mountain bolt, t2 glade, but would not be able to play on curve. Now that we have move on to the Hour of promise version, it is even more important, as we would like to not fetch forest as much as possible.
These are my experience through thousands of games with the deck ever since modern is a format.
I believe that my own experience is clouding my view, but I don't think I've ever had a hand where I had Cinder Glade, Cinder Glade, Valakut or Valakut, Valakut, Cinder Glade. Maybe there was a hand like that once or twice that I snap mulled if it didn't have any early relevant plays. Even replacing one of those lands with Stomping Ground doesn't do much against Aggro in my opinion. But I've probably been lucky enough not to have it happen. Ever since Cinder Glade was printed, I didn't play Valakut non stop and haven't played it at all since winning a PPTQ (also didn't play it other than at the PPTQs the last 3 weeks before winning one). I have been playing a lot of Humans and Knightfall recently, so maybe it's just that I've had oddly good luck with 4 Cinder Glade/2 Stomping Ground or I just haven't played much.
You know that results oriented players, like myself, can easily be swayed to believing certain things about certain decks or not trusting in the math aspect. I have won more than 90% of my matches with Humans, so currently I honestly think that it is near the level of GDS, Titanshift, E Tron, and Affinity. There's honestly a lot of factors involved, but I honestly feel like I could win a PPTQ with Humans. It feels that strong, even if today's testing vs. Jund had me at 50/50 only.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Ya, the above G + G + V, or V + V + G is just one of the many scenarios. Suppose your hand is forest + Glade, and you have a bolt and turn 2 ramp. When facing aggro, it might save you more life to go turn 1 stomp and bolt vs the alternative line of t1 Glade, turn2 bolt, turn3 ramp, or t1 glade, t2 ramp, t3 bolt. In a format like modern, where the first 4 turns decides a lot of games, we just don't have the luxury to take any turns off, and mana efficiency is key