Round 2: Grixis Fae (0-2); Not a great start, but he had it all. Disruption, constant counter magic, etc. Couldn't slip anything in on any turn.
Round 3: Jund (2-0); If my draws were bad, his were worse. Luckily, I was able to get ramp out of my hand and just play off the top.
Round 4: Mardu Midrange (2-0); His deck was the previous Boom/Bust deck with GDD. I think he realized the change recently and had to audible soem cards, but kept the boom/bust. I sided Cage preemptively and saw Nahiri second game. The interaction between Cage and Nahiri didn't stick, so he -8 on Nahiri and couldn't get his creature (he can activate the ability).
Round 5: GW Hatebears (2-1); She wins g1, I dodge Arbiter and win G2, seeing SB leylines. We both mull to 5 game 3 but i'm on the draw. She kept a hand with arbiter and Leyline but nothing else. I kept 2 bolts a Titan and lands, eventually getting there.
Round 6: Junk Midrange (1-2); Getting tired at this point and showed. Game 1 I was looking at two 3/4 Goyfs, and I had a relic and a Bolt but couldn't figure out how to kill one and not grow the other (hint Bolt then pop relic). I mis-sideboard for Game 2, thinking his deck was built differently but he leads out with Leyline. I get a good Valakut boardstate and can shoot down his creatures to make room for my Tracker and Titan. Game 3, he leads with leyline-Flayer-FMage. I have to scapeshift with 7 lands to keep his board clear, but leave some basic forests behind and null my own triggers. It was a hard loss and was definitely feeling the day wear on me.
Round 7: Kiki Chord (2-0); He casts a Courser game 1 and I untap and Scapeshift him. Game 2 he mulls to 4 and I have Titan+Omen and 5 other cards.
Round 8: Affinity (0-2). Did not keep a hand with bolt (blind keep), so died on turn 3. Game 2, I mull to 5 and keep a hand with bolt/Claim but only a mountain. Miss two land drops and once I find the green source, my Nature's Claim is met with a stubborn denial (he also dumped his hand Turn 1 with the last card being Thoughtcast).
Round 9: Eldrazi Tron (2-1): He can't interact with me and both games are over pretty quick. He's on the bubble for day 2 and planned on staying so I give him the win. Game 2 I get a Tracker on curve and manage to draw all 4 Titans.
CFB was having trouble running the event. There was at least 25 mins in-between each round. Even though I had the record for Day 2, I decided not to participate (I ran the risk of playing and missing my flight since Day 1 took forever).
]
Do you mind posting a list? I usually have trouble against affinity but you destroyed them all
I basically switched my list that was nearly the same as Thien Nyugen's old list for his June 5, 2017 MTGO list that 5-0ed. Probably not that smart to copy a list for the MTGO meta vs. paper, but I did it. Since I couldn't get behind 2 Sheltered Thicket, I didn't do them.
I originally had put Hornet Nest in my SB just for Death's Shadow, but when the opportunity to Anger of the Gods my Affinity opponents board, outside of a potentially large Arcbound Ravager came along, I took it. That single card was responsible for at least 2 wins on its own. Not to mention, it nearly won me the match in game 3 vs. Esper Shadow, but he had Liliana of the Veil.
I talked to Thien at the event multiple times. He has been running 3 Roast in the SB when he expects a high Shadow meta. He feels like Shadow is warping the meta. He runs Tireless Tracker as a 1 of in the SB since he can Pact for it. He also played near me and I saw him on that June 5 list for the most part, other than adding the Tireless Tracker and Roasts, while taking out something.
Honestly, beating Affinity for me at this tournament came down to drawing cards and Hornet Nest. I am going to do a tournament report when I have time to put things in perspective. My last minute change was taking out 2 Ancient Grudge and putting in 2 Grafdigger's Cage in the Side per Thien's list, so winning thrice was just dumb luck for the most part.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Finished 11-4 as well , lost to Grishoalbrand, Eldrazi (both game nut draw with double temple, curving TKS smasher smasher), Grixis DS (3-1 vs it in the tourney), and last round to 8rack.
Few closing thoughts on some of the card choices over the weekend:
- Relic was great, it should be a maindeck 3-4 of in the current meta
- my teammate (he went 12-3) and I both played a singleton primal commend, and it was great for us
- Thragtusk is a trap in sb, just play baloths
- EE was great
- have a real plan against blood moon, not just relying on 1 for 1 solution like rec sage. We both had a back to nature, and alternate whammies in sb (i had 13emmy, my teammated had a ugin)
- don't play hornet nest (we cut it entirely)
- Chandra is very medium (we have 0 in our 75 this weekend), doesn't kill most of DS's threats, and just dies to any go wide deck. She is a good card, and will have another time to shine in a different meta
- if you use expedition well, it is one of the most powerful card against DS
- Don't play a third forest
- Don't go less than 4 stomping
I have come to many of the exact same conclusions for the deck.
1) Relic - I maindeck 4. Worst-case, you cycle them game 1 (we often have 1 extra mana) and board them out. Or, you just win turn 1 against some decks.
2) Primal - I used to run it but ended up cutting it. A 5cc Sorcery will just get Stubborn Denial'd against DS. Against other decks, I'd rather have Pact. It's nice to have a maindeck out to Blood Moon or Leyline of Sanctity, but I rarely face those Online.
3) Thragtusk - Can you elaborate here? I have found Thragtusk AMAZING against DS. It's much worse against Burn, but that's why I run 3 maindeck Courser. Against something like 8-Rack, Baloth is better, but I have 4 Trackers post-board.
4) EE - I considered running it in the side, but it seems very slow. When do you want this over Anger? Do you splash to get X=3?
5) Blood Moon - I don't see any Blood Moons Online, but my plan is 4 Tireless Tracker (post-side), 4 Titan, 3 Courser, 1 Chandra. How was 13Emmy for you? You often get it reduced by 3 (land, sorcery, creature), max 5 (enchantment, instant). Best-case, it costs 8, which seems way too expensive for the effect.
6) Hornet Nest - I recently put them back into the sideboard but haven't had a chance to use them yet. They aren't amazing in some configurations of Titan Shift, but I like them in mine. Against Grixis DS, my post-board threats are:
2 Pact
3 Courser
2 Hornet Nest
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Titan
0 Scapeshift
I overload on creatures, so Hornet is very unlikely to be killed with non-damage removal.
7) Chandra - I board 1 against Eldrazi decks, but otherwise I agree that she's not great right now.
8) KHE is insane against DS, especially Grixis. If you get out a Valakut, you can really screw up their combat math and kill them out of nowhere.
9) 3rd Forest - 100% agree. I put in an 8th green fetchland instead of 3rd Forest. It helps with KHE and Tracker.
10) Stomping - I could see 4 Stomping, 3 Glade over 1 basic Mountain. Do you run 2 or 3 Glades? I love the ability to play untapped duals later in the game and save on life. I will often fetch for Stomping turns 1 or 3, and then Glades the rest of the game. With 3 Stomping, 2 Forest, 8 fetchlands, I have a good number of ways to get turn 1 green for Search. That's the main time it makes a difference.
- Thragtusk is a trap because it is worst against almost everything else. The games doesn't come down to their delve creature staring at your Thragtusk that often. Where as, the 4cc vs 5cc, and the discard clause is VERY relevant in all other match up.
- EE is good because it give you another instant speed ways to deal with EOT CoCo into combo. Also it gets around Burrenton Forge-tender, which did came up in on of my round. It also kill deathshadow straight up as well. With that said, this is a sb card
- There is a lot of ways to go about beating blood moon, my point is just don't try to bank on single target enchantment removal, as they can easily play a second one when the game drags out.
- Our mana base is 7 fetch, 7 mountain, 2 forest, 4 stomping, 2 cinder, 1cycle duel, 4 kut. Quite happy how it plays out
- primal was good as a one of, drawing two is clunky. I think we are in a more grindy format, which makes the speed of pact less important. It is not wrong to continue to go with 2 pacts, but the primal commend's utility has been great for both of us this week.
- lastly, Grim lavamancer has been very good from the sb, making short work of CoCo, hatebear decks, any small creature decks.
I never brought in Baloth against other grindy matchups. Yes, it's great if you surprised a LotV or K-Command, but how often does that come up? They will likely know it's in your hand from previous discard. So, if them knowing about it negates the discard effect's usefulness, then Thragtusk is a ton better in grindy midrange matchups. It requires 2 removal spells, is LotV-proof, can trade with bigger Goyfs, and can't be killed with Fatal Push. Against what decks do you bring Baloth in?
Every time I've tried bringing in Baloth, I really hated it except when they made me discard it. I much prefer Tireless Tracker against midrange.
I do agree that I'd MUCH rather have turn 3 Baloth than turn 4 Thragtusk against Burn.
EE - Do you bring this in against Grixis DS? Yes, it kills DS, but they have just as many delve threats that it doesn't touch... That's a good point about CoCo. Post-board against them, I have 4 Bolt, 3 Anger, 1 Chandra, which is a bit lighter on removal than I prefer.
Cycle Dual - has this been working well for you? Running only 1 seems like you will RARELY ever topdeck it mid-game and get to use the cycling. It seems like you'll be more likely to get it early game when it stunts your development.
Lavamancer - I need to try that in the sideboard! That would really help against so many decks that are prevalent Online. Good tech! I'm not very excited about Chandra, so I'll try Lavamancer in her place and maybe try to squeeze 1 more in.
I never brought in Baloth against other grindy matchups. Yes, it's great if you surprised a LotV or K-Command, but how often does that come up? They will likely know it's in your hand from previous discard. So, if them knowing about it negates the discard effect's usefulness, then Thragtusk is a ton better in grindy midrange matchups. It requires 2 removal spells, is LotV-proof, can trade with bigger Goyfs, and can't be killed with Fatal Push. Against what decks do you bring Baloth in?
Every time I've tried bringing in Baloth, I really hated it except when they made me discard it. I much prefer Tireless Tracker against midrange.
I do agree that I'd MUCH rather have turn 3 Baloth than turn 4 Thragtusk against Burn.
EE - Do you bring this in against Grixis DS? Yes, it kills DS, but they have just as many delve threats that it doesn't touch... That's a good point about CoCo. Post-board against them, I have 4 Bolt, 3 Anger, 1 Chandra, which is a bit lighter on removal than I prefer.
Cycle Dual - has this been working well for you? Running only 1 seems like you will RARELY ever topdeck it mid-game and get to use the cycling. It seems like you'll be more likely to get it early game when it stunts your development.
Lavamancer - I need to try that in the sideboard! That would really help against so many decks that are prevalent Online. Good tech! I'm not very excited about Chandra, so I'll try Lavamancer in her place and maybe try to squeeze 1 more in.
Maybe I overplay Baloth like this, but I literally rarely cast it against Liliana decks. I will force them not to make Liliana and +1 it. We have inevitability, so we rarely need it in these matchups unless our Wood Elves and STEs are not chumping enough or they have a super quick clock. I've literally had games where neither of us had gas, but I never played Baloth because of a potential topdecked LoTV or they already had it in their hand or in play. Then I just waited until I drew a win-con. But I personally don't think Liliana of the Veil is a big part of the current meta, so the point is nearly moot there.
Lavaman has always been good on turn 1 against many decks. I question the ability to see a non-Green creature early enough to matter. So, if you get it turn 1 a lot, go for it. If you draw it after 5 dudes on the board, probably stay away from it. Simply not drawing it is fine because you have a one of, but you can also draw it late and it sucks badly there.
Despite Thien still running Chandra, Torch of Defiance and my rookie friend saying that his version is better with Khalni Heart Expedition, I have come to the conclusion that KHE is better right now as well. I could also get behind playing 2 instead of 3 Forests, but I can't get behind 4 Stomping Ground. I also am not a fan of Primal Command or other mainboard grave hate. I don't think it's necessary in a super diverse meta, but 2 is the absolute most I'd run mainboard. The games that I played mostly came down to decisions on turns 3-5.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
KHE is still really good. It's a lot better when the most played deck isn't an Abrupt Decay deck (Jund DS). In theory its good against Grixis because it's card advantage they can't easily interact with. I'm still on the fence about it here because you're gonna be playing off the top anyway, so I've just been taking them out to be safe.
My experience with baloth is basically what foodchaingoblins said. In modern, people just play what they wants, even if you don't think LoTV is prevalent in the current meta, at a GP level, you will face a very diverse field. In this GP, i have faced 4 LOTV deck, so perhaps i could be a little biased on Thrag vs baloth here. If i am grinding online league, with like 20% meta being DS, then it is possibly correct to switch to Thrag instead.
- So open field play baloth, inbred field with lot of DS play Thragtusk
- I replaced the 3rd forest with the cycle duel, and was presently surprised with the experience.
- KHE is good vs DS because u don't need to crack it when they ripe you hand apart. A lot of these games end up being dome them for 9 with a land drop
- the reason Lavamancer is good because it gives you more ways to interact with these deck at instant speed. Active lavamancer just take over games and bail you out against stuff like Aven mindscencor etc.
- i will reiterate this again. We will likely lose more life with stomping ground, but you will lose LESS games with it. Having multiple lands ETB tap is just disaster, especially when GR shift is not a good mulliganing deck. (We are a critical mass deck)
For what it is worth, these are just my experiences and feedback after thousands of matches with the archetype.
Rd.1 - Bye, 2-0 Rd.2 - Bye, 2-0 Rd.3 - RG Tron, 1-2 (my game losses were to turn 3 Karn one game, and turn 4 Ulamog the next game - eating my lands) Rd.4 - Eltronzi, 1-2 (again, turn 3 Karn, game 2 -- game 3, I actually lost because I ran out of mountains -- I had to Scape to clear his board [which was lethal] and when I drew the next Scape a few turns later, I had to concede because I had no mountains left in my deck... very frustrating start to tournament) Rd.5 - Naya Breach (pseudo mirror), 2-1 (fun match, and he blew me out one game with Breach into Woodfall Primus, but I got him the other two games because I had "more" ramp and was just more consistent -- he said the white splash was for Path, Nahiri and Blessed Alliance) Rd.6 - Living End, 0-2 (not even a match - he turn 3 cascade, turn 4 swing killed me both games) Rd.7 - Grixis DS, 2-0 Rd.8 - Eltronzi, 2-0 (guy had a few threats and Thought-Knots... I just made land drops and won) Rd.9 - RG Tron, 2-0 (guy literally cycled probably half his deck both games and somehow never got Tron online either game)
----- Rd.10 - Burn, 1-2 (he won the die roll - turn 3'd me game one, and had the skullcrack and atarka's command exactly when he needed them both game 3) Rd.11 - Grixis DS, 2-0 Rd.12 - Living End, 2-1 (game 1, he turn 4'd me -- game 2 he cascaded on turn 4 but my follow-up Hornet Nest stopped him from swinging for like 3 turns as he was trying to find an answer, and gave me just enough time to ramp up and stabilize - Thragtusk beats for the win -- game 3 was the weirdest game I've ever played as I drew only lands/no ramp, and he never cycled anything... he just kept playing Avalanche Riders/Fulm. Mages slowing me down but I kept hitting my land drops; I eventually Scapeshift him with him having seven cards in hand - he told me after that he had 7 green cards in his hand while his lands were all Blackcleave/Blood Crypt/Swamp - I feel like I got incredibly lucky this match as it seems nearly unwinnable) Rd.13 - UWR Control, 1-2 (oppt was very nice, but deck was very annoying to play against - lots of helix and snaps and bolts and then counters for when I was ready to go off -- game 2 I won by literally just making land drops as the game went long -- game 3 he won super fast because I took out my removal and he just won with Snap/Bolt and multiple V.Cliques that I couldn't kill) Rd.14 - Grixis DS, 2-0 Rd.15 - Grixis DS, 2-0 Finish: 10-5, 370 out of 3400 (and 1 pro point that I couldn't care less about, which now gives me 4)
Some thoughts on the 75, and any changes.
a) Wood Elves was great, as was Taiga (Cinder Glade). [[3/3 split with Stomping Ground felt perfect.]]
b) Chandra was very meh all tourney. I won one game round 8 with her ult, but she felt out of place every time I drew her.
c) The random Misty is a very minor hedge against Pithing Needle... just... in... case (but can easily be the 3rd Windswept).
d) A lot of people are cutting Explore, but I still really liked it, especially on turn 2 playing Valakut as your 2nd land (and I really don't want the 4th Farseek).
e) Crazy to say it, but Lightning Bolt felt the worse it's ever felt (but I also didn't play against many creature decks). --Sidenote: I played against Tron decks and DS decks mainly... I just wanted to play against BGx or CoCo decks and I never played either.
f) I agree that Thragtusk is a turn slower, and a bit meh, but I switched one Baloth to it for the Delve creatures. Thragtusk was also pretty OK against Living End (the 2nd time I played it, as round 6 was a joke of a match).
g) I actually liked Hornet Nest... just as a one-of was fine. It stopped my Living End and 2 of my DS oppt's from even attacking... they just stayed back giving me more time to ramp up.
h) The Sheltered Thicket is a free-roll. (I viewed it as my 4th Stomping that always came in tapped if I got it with Farseek... I actually only cycled it twice all tourney - but it was free as a one of.) --- I also agree that with less Blood Moons around, the 3rd Forest is not needed.
i) I guess this deck has a good DS matchup?!?! (as I didn't lose a single game to it all tournament)
Lastly, for whatever reason, people really hate losing to this deck. (I'm guessing because it's hard to hate out land drops, and for that reason, I'll keep it sleeved up for awhile.) I'm definitely interested in anyone's thoughts on my matches or my 75 as I'm always game for tweaking things.
@SpawnofHastur I was wondering about the sheltered thickets also. Doesn't cinder glade do an excellent imitation of taiga in Titanshift lists? I would think that cutting down on the number of basic mountains would also make your cinder glades into sheltered thickets more often.
I would think that cutting down on the number of basic mountains would also make your cinder glades into sheltered thickets more often.
I highly doubt this.
Most basics you put into play come from ramp spells or fetchlands, you don't normally end up playing 2 basics from your hand and then playing a cinder glade.
I guess it just depends because I very often had 1-2 Mountains in my hand at the beginning of the game. I even had those hands and drew into more Mountains. I feel like we need to maintain the 7 Mountain count, even if we lower the 3 Forest to 2. I just personally wouldn't do less than 7 as of right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
2x anger of the gods
2x ancient grudge
2x engineer explosive
2x witchbane orb
2x grim lavamancer
1x obstinate baloth
1x thrugtusk
1x courser of kruphix
1x back to nature
1x Emrakul the promised end
Hi guys! I would like to ask you about the tron match since Im loosing against it a lot.
Im playing the 3 chandra version with 1 wood elf, and my sideboard is this:
3 baloth
2 relics
2 grafdiggers cage
2 claim
2 ancient grudge
1 anger of gods
2 chameleon collosus ( I like this one over hornet nest)
1 kitchen finks (was thinking about adding 1 crumble, but burn is also a bit meh match)
Thanks!
I don't think there's any special way to play it. If you are losing a lot, it's probably because your draws are a bit slow, to be honest.
Do you win the die roll? Do you get a lot of ramp? Do they turn 3 Tron you an destroy a land right away? If they are GB, are their Collective Brutality getting your key spells?
Now, disregard that if you're talking about Eldrazi Tron.. Are they curving Thought-Knot Seer into Reality Smasher? Are they playing multiple Reality Smashers? It honestly is nearly a goldfish of how quickly you can ramp, but you often may want to keep Wood Elves or STE if you can to block their non Smasher creatures. I do believe that Hornet Nest from the SB would be good, but that is only my theory (haven't played the matchup yet).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Hi guys! I would like to ask you about the tron match since Im loosing against it a lot.
Im playing the 3 chandra version with 1 wood elf, and my sideboard is this:
3 baloth
2 relics
2 grafdiggers cage
2 claim
2 ancient grudge
1 anger of gods
2 chameleon collosus ( I like this one over hornet nest)
1 kitchen finks (was thinking about adding 1 crumble, but burn is also a bit meh match)
Thanks!
Unless you dedicate sideboard slots to Tron, you just have to hope they don't have turn 3-4 Karn or Ulamog. Other than that, they don't interact with what you are doing.
Good sideboard cards are Crumble (very narrow, really only for Tron) or Beast Within (good against other decks, too).
You can also apply pressure with creatures like Tireless Tracker, which really just redirects Karn's exile ability from your lands to your creature.
Btw, I LOVE the idea of Chameleon Colossus instead of Hornet Nest! I'm going to have to try that out. Grixis DS can't counter it since they only run Stubborn, so it's going to hit the board. And when it does, it's much more threatening than Hornet!
Perfect. Yeah the thing is thar they did usually turn 3 karn + ulamog/another karn/world breaker...
One question about beast within, would u bring it against affinity? I really like having 2 grudges, but the only 2 cards i would cut for beast are 1 grudge and 1 kitchen
About collosus: since i added it, im 7-1 against any shadow deck. It is much better than hornet nest against grixis, but a bit worst against the BGx ones.
Also, the only way they can win you once it lands, its because you are forced to attack and they cast a caster
I think yes, you do bring it in vs. Affinity. It can kill Cranial Plating in a pinch. But then, my SB doesn't have Ancient Grudge anymore. Also, Beast Within is as solid vs. Tron as Fulminator Mage (when other decks side those).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
We have a bigger event coming up here this weekend and the following is what I'll be trying. Meta is going to be a lot like the gp I imagine but we tend to have a lot of people that try to play counter control decks.
Do anyone know of any hatebear style cards to bring i against combo like Ad Nauseam or Storm? I considered red eidolon, but he is red and not really good against Ad Nauseam so to narrow. The card need to have a low casting cost and preferably green.
Green typically doesn't have these effects, so you'll have to dig into artifacts. I know a few Eldrazi Tron players that run Trinisphere. Should hose Storm, and slow down AN.
Link to my deck list. I'll take positive constructive feedback. Appreciate it. I have a PPTQ and IQ coming up next month and I adjusted my list to what I think will work for the meta right now.
Link to my deck list. I'll take positive constructive feedback. Appreciate it. I have a PPTQ and IQ coming up next month and I adjusted my list to what I think will work for the meta right now.
It's a good list, although I personally don't like Fog or Chameleon Colossus from the SB. I prefer Hornet Nest, but I can also imagine situations where Colossus is better.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I played Thien Nguyen's most recent 5-0 list at FNM tonight. Didn't run so good, ending up at 2-2.
Chandra was good in one matchup, putting on a lot of pressure and drawing me cards, but I don't know if she was better than what I would have been running in that slot if my card order hadn't arrived today, which is 2 Pia and Kiran Nalarr and an extra maindeck Bolt or an Engineered Explosives. Wood Elves were always great when I saw them.
I'll mess with the list a little before next week. I might want the Prismatic Omens, since someone at my local is on UG Hive Mind control.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Round 1: Bye
Round 2: Grixis Fae (0-2); Not a great start, but he had it all. Disruption, constant counter magic, etc. Couldn't slip anything in on any turn.
Round 3: Jund (2-0); If my draws were bad, his were worse. Luckily, I was able to get ramp out of my hand and just play off the top.
Round 4: Mardu Midrange (2-0); His deck was the previous Boom/Bust deck with GDD. I think he realized the change recently and had to audible soem cards, but kept the boom/bust. I sided Cage preemptively and saw Nahiri second game. The interaction between Cage and Nahiri didn't stick, so he -8 on Nahiri and couldn't get his creature (he can activate the ability).
Round 5: GW Hatebears (2-1); She wins g1, I dodge Arbiter and win G2, seeing SB leylines. We both mull to 5 game 3 but i'm on the draw. She kept a hand with arbiter and Leyline but nothing else. I kept 2 bolts a Titan and lands, eventually getting there.
Round 6: Junk Midrange (1-2); Getting tired at this point and showed. Game 1 I was looking at two 3/4 Goyfs, and I had a relic and a Bolt but couldn't figure out how to kill one and not grow the other (hint Bolt then pop relic). I mis-sideboard for Game 2, thinking his deck was built differently but he leads out with Leyline. I get a good Valakut boardstate and can shoot down his creatures to make room for my Tracker and Titan. Game 3, he leads with leyline-Flayer-FMage. I have to scapeshift with 7 lands to keep his board clear, but leave some basic forests behind and null my own triggers. It was a hard loss and was definitely feeling the day wear on me.
Round 7: Kiki Chord (2-0); He casts a Courser game 1 and I untap and Scapeshift him. Game 2 he mulls to 4 and I have Titan+Omen and 5 other cards.
Round 8: Affinity (0-2). Did not keep a hand with bolt (blind keep), so died on turn 3. Game 2, I mull to 5 and keep a hand with bolt/Claim but only a mountain. Miss two land drops and once I find the green source, my Nature's Claim is met with a stubborn denial (he also dumped his hand Turn 1 with the last card being Thoughtcast).
Round 9: Eldrazi Tron (2-1): He can't interact with me and both games are over pretty quick. He's on the bubble for day 2 and planned on staying so I give him the win. Game 2 I get a Tracker on curve and manage to draw all 4 Titans.
CFB was having trouble running the event. There was at least 25 mins in-between each round. Even though I had the record for Day 2, I decided not to participate (I ran the risk of playing and missing my flight since Day 1 took forever).
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
I basically switched my list that was nearly the same as Thien Nyugen's old list for his June 5, 2017 MTGO list that 5-0ed. Probably not that smart to copy a list for the MTGO meta vs. paper, but I did it. Since I couldn't get behind 2 Sheltered Thicket, I didn't do them.
I originally had put Hornet Nest in my SB just for Death's Shadow, but when the opportunity to Anger of the Gods my Affinity opponents board, outside of a potentially large Arcbound Ravager came along, I took it. That single card was responsible for at least 2 wins on its own. Not to mention, it nearly won me the match in game 3 vs. Esper Shadow, but he had Liliana of the Veil.
I talked to Thien at the event multiple times. He has been running 3 Roast in the SB when he expects a high Shadow meta. He feels like Shadow is warping the meta. He runs Tireless Tracker as a 1 of in the SB since he can Pact for it. He also played near me and I saw him on that June 5 list for the most part, other than adding the Tireless Tracker and Roasts, while taking out something.
Honestly, beating Affinity for me at this tournament came down to drawing cards and Hornet Nest. I am going to do a tournament report when I have time to put things in perspective. My last minute change was taking out 2 Ancient Grudge and putting in 2 Grafdigger's Cage in the Side per Thien's list, so winning thrice was just dumb luck for the most part.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)- Thragtusk is a trap because it is worst against almost everything else. The games doesn't come down to their delve creature staring at your Thragtusk that often. Where as, the 4cc vs 5cc, and the discard clause is VERY relevant in all other match up.
- EE is good because it give you another instant speed ways to deal with EOT CoCo into combo. Also it gets around Burrenton Forge-tender, which did came up in on of my round. It also kill deathshadow straight up as well. With that said, this is a sb card
- There is a lot of ways to go about beating blood moon, my point is just don't try to bank on single target enchantment removal, as they can easily play a second one when the game drags out.
- Our mana base is 7 fetch, 7 mountain, 2 forest, 4 stomping, 2 cinder, 1cycle duel, 4 kut. Quite happy how it plays out
- primal was good as a one of, drawing two is clunky. I think we are in a more grindy format, which makes the speed of pact less important. It is not wrong to continue to go with 2 pacts, but the primal commend's utility has been great for both of us this week.
- lastly, Grim lavamancer has been very good from the sb, making short work of CoCo, hatebear decks, any small creature decks.
I never brought in Baloth against other grindy matchups. Yes, it's great if you surprised a LotV or K-Command, but how often does that come up? They will likely know it's in your hand from previous discard. So, if them knowing about it negates the discard effect's usefulness, then Thragtusk is a ton better in grindy midrange matchups. It requires 2 removal spells, is LotV-proof, can trade with bigger Goyfs, and can't be killed with Fatal Push. Against what decks do you bring Baloth in?
Every time I've tried bringing in Baloth, I really hated it except when they made me discard it. I much prefer Tireless Tracker against midrange.
I do agree that I'd MUCH rather have turn 3 Baloth than turn 4 Thragtusk against Burn.
EE - Do you bring this in against Grixis DS? Yes, it kills DS, but they have just as many delve threats that it doesn't touch... That's a good point about CoCo. Post-board against them, I have 4 Bolt, 3 Anger, 1 Chandra, which is a bit lighter on removal than I prefer.
Cycle Dual - has this been working well for you? Running only 1 seems like you will RARELY ever topdeck it mid-game and get to use the cycling. It seems like you'll be more likely to get it early game when it stunts your development.
Lavamancer - I need to try that in the sideboard! That would really help against so many decks that are prevalent Online. Good tech! I'm not very excited about Chandra, so I'll try Lavamancer in her place and maybe try to squeeze 1 more in.
Maybe I overplay Baloth like this, but I literally rarely cast it against Liliana decks. I will force them not to make Liliana and +1 it. We have inevitability, so we rarely need it in these matchups unless our Wood Elves and STEs are not chumping enough or they have a super quick clock. I've literally had games where neither of us had gas, but I never played Baloth because of a potential topdecked LoTV or they already had it in their hand or in play. Then I just waited until I drew a win-con. But I personally don't think Liliana of the Veil is a big part of the current meta, so the point is nearly moot there.
Lavaman has always been good on turn 1 against many decks. I question the ability to see a non-Green creature early enough to matter. So, if you get it turn 1 a lot, go for it. If you draw it after 5 dudes on the board, probably stay away from it. Simply not drawing it is fine because you have a one of, but you can also draw it late and it sucks badly there.
Despite Thien still running Chandra, Torch of Defiance and my rookie friend saying that his version is better with Khalni Heart Expedition, I have come to the conclusion that KHE is better right now as well. I could also get behind playing 2 instead of 3 Forests, but I can't get behind 4 Stomping Ground. I also am not a fan of Primal Command or other mainboard grave hate. I don't think it's necessary in a super diverse meta, but 2 is the absolute most I'd run mainboard. The games that I played mostly came down to decisions on turns 3-5.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
- So open field play baloth, inbred field with lot of DS play Thragtusk
- I replaced the 3rd forest with the cycle duel, and was presently surprised with the experience.
- KHE is good vs DS because u don't need to crack it when they ripe you hand apart. A lot of these games end up being dome them for 9 with a land drop
- the reason Lavamancer is good because it gives you more ways to interact with these deck at instant speed. Active lavamancer just take over games and bail you out against stuff like Aven mindscencor etc.
- i will reiterate this again. We will likely lose more life with stomping ground, but you will lose LESS games with it. Having multiple lands ETB tap is just disaster, especially when GR shift is not a good mulliganing deck. (We are a critical mass deck)
For what it is worth, these are just my experiences and feedback after thousands of matches with the archetype.
3 Cinder Glade
3 Stomping Ground
1 Sheltered Thicket
3 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
Dudes
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Wood Elves
2 Explore
3 Farseek
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Scapeshift
Removal
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Sweltering Suns
Stuff
2 Summoner's Pact
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Chandra Torch of Defiance
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Beast Within
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Hornet Nest
2 Nature's Claim
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Thragtusk
1 Tireless Tracker
Rd.1 - Bye, 2-0
Rd.2 - Bye, 2-0
Rd.3 - RG Tron, 1-2 (my game losses were to turn 3 Karn one game, and turn 4 Ulamog the next game - eating my lands)
Rd.4 - Eltronzi, 1-2 (again, turn 3 Karn, game 2 -- game 3, I actually lost because I ran out of mountains -- I had to Scape to clear his board [which was lethal] and when I drew the next Scape a few turns later, I had to concede because I had no mountains left in my deck... very frustrating start to tournament)
Rd.5 - Naya Breach (pseudo mirror), 2-1 (fun match, and he blew me out one game with Breach into Woodfall Primus, but I got him the other two games because I had "more" ramp and was just more consistent -- he said the white splash was for Path, Nahiri and Blessed Alliance)
Rd.6 - Living End, 0-2 (not even a match - he turn 3 cascade, turn 4 swing killed me both games)
Rd.7 - Grixis DS, 2-0
Rd.8 - Eltronzi, 2-0 (guy had a few threats and Thought-Knots... I just made land drops and won)
Rd.9 - RG Tron, 2-0 (guy literally cycled probably half his deck both games and somehow never got Tron online either game)
-----
Rd.10 - Burn, 1-2 (he won the die roll - turn 3'd me game one, and had the skullcrack and atarka's command exactly when he needed them both game 3)
Rd.11 - Grixis DS, 2-0
Rd.12 - Living End, 2-1 (game 1, he turn 4'd me -- game 2 he cascaded on turn 4 but my follow-up Hornet Nest stopped him from swinging for like 3 turns as he was trying to find an answer, and gave me just enough time to ramp up and stabilize - Thragtusk beats for the win -- game 3 was the weirdest game I've ever played as I drew only lands/no ramp, and he never cycled anything... he just kept playing Avalanche Riders/Fulm. Mages slowing me down but I kept hitting my land drops; I eventually Scapeshift him with him having seven cards in hand - he told me after that he had 7 green cards in his hand while his lands were all Blackcleave/Blood Crypt/Swamp - I feel like I got incredibly lucky this match as it seems nearly unwinnable)
Rd.13 - UWR Control, 1-2 (oppt was very nice, but deck was very annoying to play against - lots of helix and snaps and bolts and then counters for when I was ready to go off -- game 2 I won by literally just making land drops as the game went long -- game 3 he won super fast because I took out my removal and he just won with Snap/Bolt and multiple V.Cliques that I couldn't kill)
Rd.14 - Grixis DS, 2-0
Rd.15 - Grixis DS, 2-0
Finish: 10-5, 370 out of 3400 (and 1 pro point that I couldn't care less about, which now gives me 4)
Some thoughts on the 75, and any changes.
a) Wood Elves was great, as was Taiga (Cinder Glade). [[3/3 split with Stomping Ground felt perfect.]]
b) Chandra was very meh all tourney. I won one game round 8 with her ult, but she felt out of place every time I drew her.
c) The random Misty is a very minor hedge against Pithing Needle... just... in... case (but can easily be the 3rd Windswept).
d) A lot of people are cutting Explore, but I still really liked it, especially on turn 2 playing Valakut as your 2nd land (and I really don't want the 4th Farseek).
e) Crazy to say it, but Lightning Bolt felt the worse it's ever felt (but I also didn't play against many creature decks).
--Sidenote: I played against Tron decks and DS decks mainly... I just wanted to play against BGx or CoCo decks and I never played either.
f) I agree that Thragtusk is a turn slower, and a bit meh, but I switched one Baloth to it for the Delve creatures. Thragtusk was also pretty OK against Living End (the 2nd time I played it, as round 6 was a joke of a match).
g) I actually liked Hornet Nest... just as a one-of was fine. It stopped my Living End and 2 of my DS oppt's from even attacking... they just stayed back giving me more time to ramp up.
h) The Sheltered Thicket is a free-roll. (I viewed it as my 4th Stomping that always came in tapped if I got it with Farseek... I actually only cycled it twice all tourney - but it was free as a one of.) --- I also agree that with less Blood Moons around, the 3rd Forest is not needed.
i) I guess this deck has a good DS matchup?!?! (as I didn't lose a single game to it all tournament)
Lastly, for whatever reason, people really hate losing to this deck. (I'm guessing because it's hard to hate out land drops, and for that reason, I'll keep it sleeved up for awhile.) I'm definitely interested in anyone's thoughts on my matches or my 75 as I'm always game for tweaking things.
BWBAthreos, God of PassageBWB (Shadowborn Clerics)
I guess it just depends because I very often had 1-2 Mountains in my hand at the beginning of the game. I even had those hands and drew into more Mountains. I feel like we need to maintain the 7 Mountain count, even if we lower the 3 Forest to 2. I just personally wouldn't do less than 7 as of right now.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)4x primeval titan
4x sakura tribe elder
4x scapeshift
1x summoner's pact
1x primal commend
4x search for tomorrow
2x farseek
2x explore
3x khali heart expedition
4x lightning bolt
4x relic of progenitus
4x stomping ground
4x valakut, the molten pinnacle
2x cinder glade
1x sheltered thicket
4x wooded foothills
3x windswept health
2x forest
7x mountain
Sideboard:
2x anger of the gods
2x ancient grudge
2x engineer explosive
2x witchbane orb
2x grim lavamancer
1x obstinate baloth
1x thrugtusk
1x courser of kruphix
1x back to nature
1x Emrakul the promised end
I don't think there's any special way to play it. If you are losing a lot, it's probably because your draws are a bit slow, to be honest.
Do you win the die roll? Do you get a lot of ramp? Do they turn 3 Tron you an destroy a land right away? If they are GB, are their Collective Brutality getting your key spells?
Now, disregard that if you're talking about Eldrazi Tron.. Are they curving Thought-Knot Seer into Reality Smasher? Are they playing multiple Reality Smashers? It honestly is nearly a goldfish of how quickly you can ramp, but you often may want to keep Wood Elves or STE if you can to block their non Smasher creatures. I do believe that Hornet Nest from the SB would be good, but that is only my theory (haven't played the matchup yet).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Unless you dedicate sideboard slots to Tron, you just have to hope they don't have turn 3-4 Karn or Ulamog. Other than that, they don't interact with what you are doing.
Good sideboard cards are Crumble (very narrow, really only for Tron) or Beast Within (good against other decks, too).
You can also apply pressure with creatures like Tireless Tracker, which really just redirects Karn's exile ability from your lands to your creature.
Btw, I LOVE the idea of Chameleon Colossus instead of Hornet Nest! I'm going to have to try that out. Grixis DS can't counter it since they only run Stubborn, so it's going to hit the board. And when it does, it's much more threatening than Hornet!
I think yes, you do bring it in vs. Affinity. It can kill Cranial Plating in a pinch. But then, my SB doesn't have Ancient Grudge anymore. Also, Beast Within is as solid vs. Tron as Fulminator Mage (when other decks side those).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)1 Engineered Explosives
Creature (14)
2 Chameleon Colossus
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Obstinate Baloth
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Woodfall Primus
Instant (9)
3 Summoner's Pact
2 Summoning Trap
4 Through the Breach
Planeswalker (2)
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Farseek
4 Search for Tomorrow
1 Sweltering Suns
Land (24)
2 Cinder Glade
2 Forest
6 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Stomping Ground
3 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Reclamation Sage
3 Rest In Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Sudden Shock
Fetch-Shock-Blog
Moderator of /r/Scapeshift
Link to my deck list. I'll take positive constructive feedback. Appreciate it. I have a PPTQ and IQ coming up next month and I adjusted my list to what I think will work for the meta right now.
It's a good list, although I personally don't like Fog or Chameleon Colossus from the SB. I prefer Hornet Nest, but I can also imagine situations where Colossus is better.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Chandra was good in one matchup, putting on a lot of pressure and drawing me cards, but I don't know if she was better than what I would have been running in that slot if my card order hadn't arrived today, which is 2 Pia and Kiran Nalarr and an extra maindeck Bolt or an Engineered Explosives. Wood Elves were always great when I saw them.
I'll mess with the list a little before next week. I might want the Prismatic Omens, since someone at my local is on UG Hive Mind control.