It seems like you have chosen which deck to play based on the likelihood that deck goes infinite on the MODO meta. Not everyone is interested in the same thing; personally I play MODO as often as I can, but the reason I play it is to play much more than my schedule allows me to play paper, and to practice my deck against fringe decks or decks I would otherwise not face in my paper meta. I prefer to play the game in paper and in person, and use MODO as a tool to be better prepared for paper tournaments, which are my main focus. E tron has performed very well for me locally, my MATCH winrate in paper lifetime with the deck is 149-68, 68.7%. The reason I'm still on the deck is because it continues to perform well for me and I continue to win store credit, probably to the tune of at least a thousand dollars since I've been playing the deck in total. The humans matchup seems very far from unwinnable, and it feels pretty hyperbolic for you to say that game 1 against affinity (it is a terrible matchup though, stats don't lie) and humans is auto-loss. I've won SO many games against these decks by getting fast mana for an absurdly large ballista, an early all is dust, or a T4 ulamog into concession. Those decks do not interact with our lands or our assembling of tron, and a well above average eldrazi tron hand will beat an average to below average affinity or humans hand game 1. It seems you feel like your opponents will always have the nuts when you type so hyperbolic, whereas I am confident I can win games and matches against bad matchups thanks to variance.
GX tron has honestly only been performing better than E tron on MODO. Ive been watching both decks quite closely when it comes to paper tournament results; day 2 count, top 8 count, etc., both decks are pretty equally represented and GX tron has actually fallen out of recent Top 8's whereas E tron has been there. Why would this be when humans and affinity are auto-losses? How are people going X-2 or better in swiss with E tron if the field is so well lined up against it? I don't buy that E tron is a bad deck simply because of metashare percentage. I think E tron is so much more resilient to tron hate than GX tron. It doesn't get hosed by surgical or crumble, and both decks are pretty equally punished by multiple field of ruins/Quarters. Stony Silence and chalice aren't doing much against E tron compared to GX tron, and while GX tron will have an easier time removing dampening sphere, E tron doesn't care so much that it's on the battlefield. Ignoring all of those things, modern is a format where both your deck and your opponent's deck will not operate optimally every single game. It's a game of variance, sometimes your deck runs hot, sometimes you dodge bad matchups and sometimes you draw like a god and win those bad matchups anyway. If some dude can win an SCG tournament with KCI combo, why should I care that GX tron is SLIGHTLY better positioned at a tournament than a deck I have a blast playing and see a lot of success with? Another point which I like to make is that GX tron wins and loses by a wide margin sometimes, a bit too much for my taste. I like that E tron has close games, grindy games, plays as control and beat down, and has game against a massive amount of a wide open modern meta. I practice the bad matchups like crazy because I am super determined to overcome the odds and super stoked when I pull off a win rather than being sad or depressed that the deck that should beat mine did.
I honestly don't know where you are coming from, coming into the forum and trashing the deck that continues to put up results just because you have some bias against it. Is the reason you feel the need to do this because you wish you could play the deck but you can't because it can't go infinite on MODO? What else would it be? I've absolutely noticed a trend of you seeming to think your opinions are fact throughout our conversations here and this entire page of your posts is a resounding example of that attitude. It's pretty hard to have a constructive conversation with someone when they immediately dismiss your input with a scoff because it's so below their level of thinking, and that's the attitude I tend to get from you. It's one thing to bring up points as to why E tron may be worse, discussion is always great and it's why I post here, but to phrase it in such a condescending way as you have in these comments is ridiculous. And lastly, did you have to be such a dick to someone on literally their first post? Who cares that they said something that was wrong when they said affinity isn't a bad matchup, what the hell is the point in tearing them down rather than having a civil discussion? It kinds feels like you have an attitude toward E tron for whatever reason, and I don't know what the point of bringing it here is.
Wow, I'm sorry I touched a nerve for you man. I already covered a lot of what you said in my inital post. You mentioned local metagames. Yes, that's all fine and dandy, and valid, but I was referring to the competitive meta at large. I never said that Affinity/Humans were auto-loss in game 1, I said that you will lose most of the time, which I think is reasonable. Yes you can have great starts and win, yes there is variance. I noted all this.
You don't know where I'm coming from? I literally said that I'm not coming here to crap on the deck, but that I was legitimately confused as to why people were continuing to play it, and asking questions, trying to rationalize it.
As for my deck choice, Gx Tron has been my main modern deck for years. I basically exclusively play online. E-Tron was better in that environment last year, now Gx Tron is better. I like both decks a lot and yes, I'm gonna play the one that gets me more wins. Nothing more to it than that. I'm not biased against Eldrazi Tron, lol. I just don't think it's well positioned now.
In regards to the new poster, all I did was refute his own condescension-laden arguments with my own, and using data to back it up. There's no malice here. To me data is king, and that's all I'm referring to in that statement. If someone can show me a large data sample that says Affinity or Humans aren't bad matchups for Eldrazi Tron, I'd love to see it, but I don't think it exists. That's all. How is that being a dick?
I literally said that I'm not coming here to crap on the deck
And then this is what you lead off with...
> Just had to come in and express my amazement that this deck is still not only seeing quite a bit of play
> but it just seems terrible to me right now from a competitive perspective.
> But this is not really sustainable of course.
> New Karn is cool to have access to, for sure, but it does nothing to improve the deck against the fast-and-wide strategies that are plaguing it right now.
Can you see where Tituba9 is coming from? You seem to be a reasonably intelligent person. You knew what you were doing. If you want to discuss the deck, lets do it, but leave the snideness out please.
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I dunno what to say man, everything I said there is just the reality of the situation as I see it. In retrospect I could have framed it better, but it seems like you guys are getting offended and emotional because I'm saying negative things about your pet deck, regardless of whether or not they're true. Which I'm kind of taken aback by. I didn't mean to make anyone upset, but apparently I did. Should I only talk about the scenarios in which the deck is good? That's not productive. You have to talk about the negatives if you want to improve the deck.
I admit I have felt a bit out of place in this thread at times because I'm a MTGO grinder and most people here are FNM grinders. We're taking different approaches to the game and seeing it through a different lens in many ways, so there is a disconnect there. Does anyone here grind MTGO? That dude with the Gohan avatar?
I dunno what to say man, everything I said there is just the reality of the situation as I see it. In retrospect I could have framed it better, but it seems like you guys are getting offended and emotional because I'm saying negative things about your pet deck, regardless of whether or not they're true. Which I'm kind of taken aback by. I didn't mean to make anyone upset, but apparently I did. Should I only talk about the scenarios in which the deck is good? That's not productive. You have to talk about the negatives if you want to improve the deck.
I admit I have felt a bit out of place in this thread at times because I'm a MTGO grinder and most people here are FNM grinders. We're taking different approaches to the game and seeing it through a different lens in many ways, so there is a disconnect there. Does anyone here grind MTGO? That dude with the Gohan avatar?
You can talk about the decks positives and negatives without sounding condescending or smarmy though. When you drop in the "pet deck" above that is just another instance of what we are talking about. It isn't a pet deck, its a Tier recognized powerful deck. You don't come into someones house and start criticizing it in such a fashion. Of course we want to hear productive criticism. But it needs to be that productive. Not backhanded or passive/aggressive. You have contributed before, lets hope you can contribute in a positive meaningful way, not the "your deck sucks and is on the decline, my deck is better and is on the way up" that has rubbed some of us the wrong way. And yes remember there ARE different approaches, some of ours may be just a valid.
Just keep it in mind please. Your angle can be very helpful. Just maybe tone done the "holier than thou" attitude. No hard feelings and I'll let Titubu9 respond as he sees fit, I don't want to talk for others. Remember things tend to be cyclical as well, a deck might be played less at one point but rebound at a later date.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
This is my latest theoretical Scion of Urza build. It's also tuned a bit to be better against humans and hollow one.
Urza's Factory over GQ number 3 or Sea Gate; I like the idea of a manland in the current creature meta and factory counts as an artifact when it's activated.
Swapping the collar into the maindeck with the second all is dust; Dust is not very good against hollow one, VS tron, and affnity and collar is pretty good right now game 1 because people pack their artifact removsl in their boards. Collar helps outlast the aggresivd affinity, hollow one, and humans starts.
One maindeck smugglers copter over a skysovereign; skysovereign is a 5 drop and is a bit too slow for my tastes as a blocker for affinity flyers and mantis rider. Copter trades with mantis and beats the smaller affinity flyers in combat. Copter also pairs well with Scion of Urza to filter the cards we have in our hand. Also, Scion of Urza arfitsct tokens can crew copter, previously our best option for crewing was reshaper and that is not the best value.
The listed sideboard has 14 cards; the last copy could be a 3rd relic, 2nd Contortion, 2nd grafdiggers, or a 1-of skysovereign or torpor orb.
This list isn't anything I have confidence in, but I am interested in running some leagues with it once Scion of Urza is released. I think there is some real potential in Scion of Urza putting artifact bodies on the board against humans and hollow one, buying us turns to develop our mana and turn the corner with larger threats. I definitely want to do testing both with and without the artifacts I've put in the maindeck in this post. You guys have any thoughts or critiques on this angle? Particularly in reference to the list performing at an SCG open level event.
I definitely think Little Karn is worthy of testing, but the rest of the mainboard looks kind of unfocused. This is a deck that already has consistency issues; I don't fancy exacerbating it with a pile of random 1-ofs. I am also coming to the conclusion that in this metagame, Wurmcoil Engine has to be in the 60. I've been sideboarding it in a ton.
I definitely think Little Karn is worthy of testing, but the rest of the mainboard looks kind of unfocused. This is a deck that already has consistency issues; I don't fancy exacerbating it with a pile of random 1-ofs. I am also coming to the conclusion that in this metagame, Wurmcoil Engine has to be in the 60. I've been sideboarding it in a ton.
Your point is definitely my concern with the list, however it is only 2-3 cards different than a stock list. The copter maindeck is something that could totally flop but I do want to test it. I agree that wurmcoil is a maindeck card at the moment, and basilisk collar is also not bad in the maindeck. I've been running one wurmcoil maindeck and one in the side for several weeks now and it's done pretty well.
Edit: Urza's Factory is a straight up mistake. I misread the card and thought it was a manland, not a 7 mana activation to make a dude.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Good stuff here and i cant find anything i disagree with except the control match up. I feel we are already so heavily favored in that match up especially if you run cavern of souls. New karn would be imo some insurance vs control.
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Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
I run a 2/2 split with endbringer and wurmcoil and 1 phyrexian metamorph to copy anything i may need. I agree wurmcoil is underplayed and it shouldnt be. Its very good atm
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Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Good stuff here and i cant find anything i disagree with except the control match up. I feel we are already so heavily favored in that match up especially if you run cavern of souls. New karn would be imo some insurance vs control.
I agree with this but in my experience Cavern is the reason why it's favorable, rather than something that's making it a blowout. If we didn't have access to that card it would be a pretty even matchup I think. I'll be interested to see if the new Karn can find a home in this deck. It would certainly improve this matchup if so.
Mutavault would be my choice if I ran a manland given that factory isn't what I thought it was, but the reason I liked factory was the fact that it was an artifact as well. I think Ghost Quarter would be safer as againt affinity and GX tron we really would like to see a quarter in the first couple of turns without having to fetch it with Expedition Map.
Didnt get it while it wwaa cheap.. idk what i was thinking
But i have found that vs lists like jeskai and UW we have too many fatties and they play for the late game
This deck even without caverns has just too strong of a late game that control cant do its thing. UW control has a better chance than jeskai bc of sweepers and d sphere but its a tough matchup for them none the less.
Now with cavern its just too much for the deck.
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Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
the man lands from affinity turn into artifacts as well and they fly and they only cost 1
EDIT: our deck came second in the modern challenge today and the list is spicy to say the least. thoughts?
That is an interesting list, sower lines up well against the currently played removal (push, dismember), and mimics in the side are something I haven't seen yet. It seems to have a plan of changing to eldrazi stompy against decks like Humans and hollow one rather than playing control.
I've been pretty impressed with Scion of Urza in the deck. It smoothes out clunky draws so well and I feel like this deck benefits a whole lot from digging through it's cards, I was continually impressed by how the card took over games and gave me so many cards. I definitely think it deserves a spot in the 75, card advantage against Jund, control, mardu mancer is so important and we get very punished for drawing a string of lands. Scion plus 1 alleviates flooding issues mid and late game so well, and also helps us get critical land drops 5++ when we fail to get broken amounts of mana early.
I am pretty solidified on my full 75 list, except for things like number of grafdiggers, relics and such in the side. But I'm really torn as to whether I want scion of Urza x2 maindeck and warping wail x2 sideboard or the other way around. It's often said that in modern you want to focus on executing your decks game plan game 1, rather than water it down. Scion of Urza keeps us in the game when our opening hand is fair rather than explosive, and it decreases the odds of the deck faltering altogether by missing land drops or excessive flooding. It feels r3ally good in those aspects. But only having dismember and all is dust game 1 against cards like devoted druid can feel real real bad. And while I've seen many e tron players complain about wail being dead in matchups, I feel like even in dead matchups you can use it somewhat effectively as people don't expect much instant speed interaction from us. Wail slots into turn 2 as removal really well because we don't have many turn 2 plays. I guess I need to look at the top of the meta and decide what decks I want to bear or be more competitive with game 1, and which is rather dodge or plan on beating post board. But what are your guys' thoughts on this?
Edit: another possibility is having both of those cards sideboard and relic x2 main, but this is my least favorite of the three as relic is about as useful game 1 as wail, and while it can cantrip when it's dead, it also non-bo's with chalice on 1 which is a large negative for me.
Let me first state that I am no Eldrazi Tron expert, but I am in this forum right now because I think Baby Karn has legs in this archetype.
Would it be out of the question to perhaps shave some Endbringers for Hangarback Walkers main, given the state of the meta? If there's a ton of Humans / Go-Wide / Affinity / Hollow One, it seems like a possible conclusion for furthering the strength of Karn's -2. Perhaps I am totally wrong, and I'll gladly hear your guys' opinions.
PS: I will be attending GP Vegas in a month and am trying to lock down a deck. Right now I'm between BGx variants and Eldrazi variants. Any opinions on this matter would be great!
Let me first state that I am no Eldrazi Tron expert, but I am in this forum right now because I think Baby Karn has legs in this archetype.
Would it be out of the question to perhaps shave some Endbringers for Hangarback Walkers main, given the state of the meta? If there's a ton of Humans / Go-Wide / Affinity / Hollow One, it seems like a possible conclusion for furthering the strength of Karn's -2. Perhaps I am totally wrong, and I'll gladly hear your guys' opinions.
PS: I will be attending GP Vegas in a month and am trying to lock down a deck. Right now I'm between BGx variants and Eldrazi variants. Any opinions on this matter would be great!
There are lists that run 4 Endbringers, and ones that run 2 Endbringers and replace the other two with Ulamog and Wurmcoil. I can definitely see the former going down to 2 Endbringer in favor of 2 Hangarback, which would help lower the curve of the deck and give more options for T2-T4 plays. Hangarback can be quite a liability though, especially against Path to Exile and Flickerwisp effects. Those reasons have usually kept in in the sideboard, for matches where it is all upside, but baby Karn may change that.
Edit: On a bit of a tangent, another reason to include Scion of Urza maindeck is to generate value out of Chalice in game 1's where the card is otherwise dead. Have 1-2 chalices in your hand in the mirror or against an aether vial/Cavern of souls deck? Cast the chalices for zero and they will anthem your Karn tokens. That is a neat thing that makes me lean more toward baby Karns in the main.
I’m still debating how to incorporate Baby Karn. My best guess is that I’d shave Mind Stones (I currently run 4, because the MTGO meta has a lot of Moon decks).
I’m still debating how to incorporate Baby Karn. My best guess is that I’d shave Mind Stones (I currently run 4, because the MTGO meta has a lot of Moon decks).
I'd lean towards optimizing Baby Karn by leaving in as many artifacts as possible. Cut 2 Endbringers in lists that run 4. In fact it may not fit, but if one had a flex land slot I'd consider running a copy of Darksteel Citadel as well.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I wasn't really considering the -2 as the ability worth maximizing; I just wanted the +1 and -1 for card advantage. Churning through the deck has a ton of value.
I wasn't really considering the -2 as the ability worth maximizing; I just wanted the +1 and -1 for card advantage. Churning through the deck has a ton of value.
It does but if you are staring down an army of Humans, Merfolk, Goblins or Hollow Ones/Anglers the -2 with a buff from other artifacts could save our hide. Just a thought.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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You don't know where I'm coming from? I literally said that I'm not coming here to crap on the deck, but that I was legitimately confused as to why people were continuing to play it, and asking questions, trying to rationalize it.
As for my deck choice, Gx Tron has been my main modern deck for years. I basically exclusively play online. E-Tron was better in that environment last year, now Gx Tron is better. I like both decks a lot and yes, I'm gonna play the one that gets me more wins. Nothing more to it than that. I'm not biased against Eldrazi Tron, lol. I just don't think it's well positioned now.
In regards to the new poster, all I did was refute his own condescension-laden arguments with my own, and using data to back it up. There's no malice here. To me data is king, and that's all I'm referring to in that statement. If someone can show me a large data sample that says Affinity or Humans aren't bad matchups for Eldrazi Tron, I'd love to see it, but I don't think it exists. That's all. How is that being a dick?
Peace, dude
And then this is what you lead off with...
> Just had to come in and express my amazement that this deck is still not only seeing quite a bit of play
> but it just seems terrible to me right now from a competitive perspective.
> But this is not really sustainable of course.
> New Karn is cool to have access to, for sure, but it does nothing to improve the deck against the fast-and-wide strategies that are plaguing it right now.
Can you see where Tituba9 is coming from? You seem to be a reasonably intelligent person. You knew what you were doing. If you want to discuss the deck, lets do it, but leave the snideness out please.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I admit I have felt a bit out of place in this thread at times because I'm a MTGO grinder and most people here are FNM grinders. We're taking different approaches to the game and seeing it through a different lens in many ways, so there is a disconnect there. Does anyone here grind MTGO? That dude with the Gohan avatar?
You can talk about the decks positives and negatives without sounding condescending or smarmy though. When you drop in the "pet deck" above that is just another instance of what we are talking about. It isn't a pet deck, its a Tier recognized powerful deck. You don't come into someones house and start criticizing it in such a fashion. Of course we want to hear productive criticism. But it needs to be that productive. Not backhanded or passive/aggressive. You have contributed before, lets hope you can contribute in a positive meaningful way, not the "your deck sucks and is on the decline, my deck is better and is on the way up" that has rubbed some of us the wrong way. And yes remember there ARE different approaches, some of ours may be just a valid.
Just keep it in mind please. Your angle can be very helpful. Just maybe tone done the "holier than thou" attitude. No hard feelings and I'll let Titubu9 respond as he sees fit, I don't want to talk for others. Remember things tend to be cyclical as well, a deck might be played less at one point but rebound at a later date.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
4 Walking Ballista
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Artifacts [12]
2 Mind Stone
4 Expedition Map
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Smuggler's Copter
1 Basilisk Collar
2 Dismember
1 All Is Dust
Planeswalkers [2]
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
Lands [24]
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Urza's Factory
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Wastes
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Hangarback Walker
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spatial Contortion
2 Pithing Needle
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 All is Dust
2 Warping Wail
This is my latest theoretical Scion of Urza build. It's also tuned a bit to be better against humans and hollow one.
Urza's Factory over GQ number 3 or Sea Gate; I like the idea of a manland in the current creature meta and factory counts as an artifact when it's activated.
Swapping the collar into the maindeck with the second all is dust; Dust is not very good against hollow one, VS tron, and affnity and collar is pretty good right now game 1 because people pack their artifact removsl in their boards. Collar helps outlast the aggresivd affinity, hollow one, and humans starts.
One maindeck smugglers copter over a skysovereign; skysovereign is a 5 drop and is a bit too slow for my tastes as a blocker for affinity flyers and mantis rider. Copter trades with mantis and beats the smaller affinity flyers in combat. Copter also pairs well with Scion of Urza to filter the cards we have in our hand. Also, Scion of Urza arfitsct tokens can crew copter, previously our best option for crewing was reshaper and that is not the best value.
The listed sideboard has 14 cards; the last copy could be a 3rd relic, 2nd Contortion, 2nd grafdiggers, or a 1-of skysovereign or torpor orb.
This list isn't anything I have confidence in, but I am interested in running some leagues with it once Scion of Urza is released. I think there is some real potential in Scion of Urza putting artifact bodies on the board against humans and hollow one, buying us turns to develop our mana and turn the corner with larger threats. I definitely want to do testing both with and without the artifacts I've put in the maindeck in this post. You guys have any thoughts or critiques on this angle? Particularly in reference to the list performing at an SCG open level event.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Your point is definitely my concern with the list, however it is only 2-3 cards different than a stock list. The copter maindeck is something that could totally flop but I do want to test it. I agree that wurmcoil is a maindeck card at the moment, and basilisk collar is also not bad in the maindeck. I've been running one wurmcoil maindeck and one in the side for several weeks now and it's done pretty well.
Edit: Urza's Factory is a straight up mistake. I misread the card and thought it was a manland, not a 7 mana activation to make a dude.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Mutavault would be my choice if I ran a manland given that factory isn't what I thought it was, but the reason I liked factory was the fact that it was an artifact as well. I think Ghost Quarter would be safer as againt affinity and GX tron we really would like to see a quarter in the first couple of turns without having to fetch it with Expedition Map.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Didnt get it while it wwaa cheap.. idk what i was thinking
But i have found that vs lists like jeskai and UW we have too many fatties and they play for the late game
This deck even without caverns has just too strong of a late game that control cant do its thing. UW control has a better chance than jeskai bc of sweepers and d sphere but its a tough matchup for them none the less.
Now with cavern its just too much for the deck.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
That is an interesting list, sower lines up well against the currently played removal (push, dismember), and mimics in the side are something I haven't seen yet. It seems to have a plan of changing to eldrazi stompy against decks like Humans and hollow one rather than playing control.
I've been pretty impressed with Scion of Urza in the deck. It smoothes out clunky draws so well and I feel like this deck benefits a whole lot from digging through it's cards, I was continually impressed by how the card took over games and gave me so many cards. I definitely think it deserves a spot in the 75, card advantage against Jund, control, mardu mancer is so important and we get very punished for drawing a string of lands. Scion plus 1 alleviates flooding issues mid and late game so well, and also helps us get critical land drops 5++ when we fail to get broken amounts of mana early.
I am pretty solidified on my full 75 list, except for things like number of grafdiggers, relics and such in the side. But I'm really torn as to whether I want scion of Urza x2 maindeck and warping wail x2 sideboard or the other way around. It's often said that in modern you want to focus on executing your decks game plan game 1, rather than water it down. Scion of Urza keeps us in the game when our opening hand is fair rather than explosive, and it decreases the odds of the deck faltering altogether by missing land drops or excessive flooding. It feels r3ally good in those aspects. But only having dismember and all is dust game 1 against cards like devoted druid can feel real real bad. And while I've seen many e tron players complain about wail being dead in matchups, I feel like even in dead matchups you can use it somewhat effectively as people don't expect much instant speed interaction from us. Wail slots into turn 2 as removal really well because we don't have many turn 2 plays. I guess I need to look at the top of the meta and decide what decks I want to bear or be more competitive with game 1, and which is rather dodge or plan on beating post board. But what are your guys' thoughts on this?
Edit: another possibility is having both of those cards sideboard and relic x2 main, but this is my least favorite of the three as relic is about as useful game 1 as wail, and while it can cantrip when it's dead, it also non-bo's with chalice on 1 which is a large negative for me.
WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Would it be out of the question to perhaps shave some Endbringers for Hangarback Walkers main, given the state of the meta? If there's a ton of Humans / Go-Wide / Affinity / Hollow One, it seems like a possible conclusion for furthering the strength of Karn's -2. Perhaps I am totally wrong, and I'll gladly hear your guys' opinions.
PS: I will be attending GP Vegas in a month and am trying to lock down a deck. Right now I'm between BGx variants and Eldrazi variants. Any opinions on this matter would be great!
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
There are lists that run 4 Endbringers, and ones that run 2 Endbringers and replace the other two with Ulamog and Wurmcoil. I can definitely see the former going down to 2 Endbringer in favor of 2 Hangarback, which would help lower the curve of the deck and give more options for T2-T4 plays. Hangarback can be quite a liability though, especially against Path to Exile and Flickerwisp effects. Those reasons have usually kept in in the sideboard, for matches where it is all upside, but baby Karn may change that.
Edit: On a bit of a tangent, another reason to include Scion of Urza maindeck is to generate value out of Chalice in game 1's where the card is otherwise dead. Have 1-2 chalices in your hand in the mirror or against an aether vial/Cavern of souls deck? Cast the chalices for zero and they will anthem your Karn tokens. That is a neat thing that makes me lean more toward baby Karns in the main.
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BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
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Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I'd lean towards optimizing Baby Karn by leaving in as many artifacts as possible. Cut 2 Endbringers in lists that run 4. In fact it may not fit, but if one had a flex land slot I'd consider running a copy of Darksteel Citadel as well.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
It does but if you are staring down an army of Humans, Merfolk, Goblins or Hollow Ones/Anglers the -2 with a buff from other artifacts could save our hide. Just a thought.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."