Yes...I have hard cast Emrakul WAY more often than I thought I would. I actually hard cast him on turn three last night in a match up against Neoform. The combination of Garruk Wildpseaker and Nissa Who Shakes the World can be crazy powerful.
I did add the Superfriends/Doubling Season package to this one; but really it is just the "Core" I;ve been playing with for some time now with the "Superfriends Package" as the alternate wincondition.
These 28 cards allow for comfortable means of getting to 5-mana consistently by turn 3 even through a little hate. I have flirted with playing Simian Spirit Guide as well to ensure this...but I'm not certain the card disadvantage is worth it (if the speed of the format slows by a half turn or so).
I did play a list with Llanowar Tribe as well. Tribe is incredibly powerful. I just found there to be a lot of Bolts, Paths, Push, etc. out there; so I wanted anything over 2-CMC to replace itself. The one I played with Tribe was:
Nor sure the Ugin is really needed (thought it was a fun interaction with Karn due to all of the items you fetch being colorless....but you get the point...ramping to either Karn is pretty much the game plan.
Couldn't you just play Genesis Hydra and dig for Karn ? Even if you miss Karn you still hit wildspeaker plus many other things?... sorry if it's a stupid question it's just been years since I've played and I'm trying to learn the meta
Not a stupid question at all. You could absolutely use Genesis Hydra to dig for Karn. You would want to hold back 6-mana so that when you hit Karn you could grab Lattice and cast it (assuming you have a ton of mana). But even a turn 3 Hydra into Karn would lead to the combo on turn 4.
It’s actually something I play when/if Control becomes prevalent. Wave tends to be more powerful (because you get every permanent you hit so often could hit the Karn and the mana to cast lattice); but Wave is also weak to counter spells.
I love Hydra. I’ve been hoping they would print a Walker with a Blood or even a Fling effect.
We may be in a place where we can literally just go over the top of the meta...we may not need a combo or hyper fast card outside of ramp. Given that I’ve been able hardcast Emrakul...we may not anything crazy in the new meta.
______
Testing Findings
The combination of Garruk Wildspeaker and Nissa, Who Shakes the World has been very strong. Both are good on their own; but also have really strong synergy. Between them, the Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl package and Oath+Karn....there are only like 10-11 slots left in my deck. Right now i have a Doubling Season set of cards...but you could replace it with something different if you wanted to.
I do wonder whether i should play Simian Spirit Guide for the speed...but card advantage is important for Devotion...so it would require a lot of card draw. The idea of playing a Through the Breach package crossed my mind. Gives us a reason to play Emrakul (which we can often hardcast) and Primeval Titan is always good. I may try that out as well.
Dovin, Hand of Control has been very useful. It is a sneaky powerful card. It’s like a Thalia and a Fog put together
______
Throne of Eldraine spoilers start next week. Oko (the new Walker) sounds like he is Sultai and more importantly GARRUK IS BACK!!! So here is hoping for some awesome green cards and awesome green walkers (although I wouldn’t expect a Garruk Walker until the next set given he is kinda Oko’s slave at this point in the story.
_______
If the meta truly stays a “turn 4” meta; we are in really good shape. I do worry that the success of Tron and Titan decks could cause opponents to have sideboard hate they wouldn’t otherwise; but our ramp is so spread out (between enchantments, walkers, dorks, and Nykthos, that even some land hate doesn’t necessarily hinder us. I played against a Titianshift deck that played Mwonvuki Acid-Moss and they killed Nyktos...but the next turn I cast Nissa WSTW and between an Arbor Elf and a Garruk I was able to cast Karn And Ensnarimg Bridge. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out...but right now it seems like a better Modern for ramp and Devotion.
We may be in a place where we can literally just go over the top of the meta...we may not need a combo or hyper fast card outside of ramp. Given that I’ve been able hardcast Emrakul...we may not anything crazy in the new meta.
______
Testing Findings
The combination of Garruk Wildspeaker and Nissa, Who Shakes the World has been very strong. Both are good on their own; but also have really strong synergy. Between them, the Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl package and Oath+Karn....there are only like 10-11 slots left in my deck. Right now i have a Doubling Season set of cards...but you could replace it with something different if you wanted to.
I do wonder whether i should play Simian Spirit Guide for the speed...but card advantage is important for Devotion...so it would require a lot of card draw. The idea of playing a Through the Breach package crossed my mind. Gives us a reason to play Emrakul (which we can often hardcast) and Primeval Titan is always good. I may try that out as well.
Dovin, Hand of Control has been very useful. It is a sneaky powerful card. It’s like a Thalia and a Fog put together
______
Throne of Eldraine spoilers start next week. Oko (the new Walker) sounds like he is Sultai and more importantly GARRUK IS BACK!!! So here is hoping for some awesome green cards and awesome green walkers (although I wouldn’t expect a Garruk Walker until the next set given he is kinda Oko’s slave at this point in the story.
_______
If the meta truly stays a “turn 4” meta; we are in really good shape. I do worry that the success of Tron and Titan decks could cause opponents to have sideboard hate they wouldn’t otherwise; but our ramp is so spread out (between enchantments, walkers, dorks, and Nykthos, that even some land hate doesn’t necessarily hinder us. I played against a Titianshift deck that played Mwonvuki Acid-Moss and they killed Nyktos...but the next turn I cast Nissa WSTW and between an Arbor Elf and a Garruk I was able to cast Karn And Ensnarimg Bridge. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out...but right now it seems like a better Modern for ramp and Devotion.
How did you get around the bridge? We have some high powered creatures to swing with in our list.
Finally had a chance to play some magic in the last week.
I switched over to a tooth and nail build for some experimenting
i only went 2/2 officially but should of been 3/1
round 1 was against burn, games 1 and 2, I comboed out with Nissa and got tooth and nail to go off. However game 2, didn't kill him because he had a deflecting palm and redirected 30 damage of a xenago emrakul to me. wasn't happy about that. Game 3 he pulled the nuts on me instead of me.
round 2, control let me resolve a nissa, who shakes the world I pulled off exactly 15 mana for emrakul and killed him game 1, game 2, was a bit of a back and forth over a few creatures, but I hit 9 mana and he ran out counters for my top deck tooth and nail.
round 3, titanshift. didn't stand a chance game 1 he ramp and lands Mwonvuli Acid-Moss on my utopia sprawl land, few turns later combos. game 2, hits me again in the ramp, i scoop.
4. beat deaths shadow. game 1 I ramp into nissa, he mistakenly ignores her and go after my life, gets me to 3 life, next turn I tooth and nail. doesn't have any discard to stop me. game 2 I land thrun and he blocks my opponents only grimaw anglur. I with no way to remove thrun, he draws no answers for thrun, I get to 9 mana and go off with a tooth and nail to end it.
Black for liliana didn't do anything all night, idea was she'd be a tutor.
Didn't get titan out tonight so I never got the field of the dead to trigger. Nissa, did all the work.
with it might have been wizer to run grave titan over liliana vess.
other card that i'm thinking about is Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, his proliferate might be useful with the walkers, but also supports the man lands nissa is creating.
Human's isn't a good match up either, a pro human creature might mean something as well.
How did you get around the bridge? We have some high powered creatures to swing with in our list.
In matchups like this one in particular I traditionally kill them with Walking Ballista. Generally once ensnaring bridge and lattice are in play...they can’t do much of anything. I can then cast a Ballista large enough to ping them to death.
There are a few other ways to get around a bridge; but this is generally my “go to” method when I have to quickly get a bridge out.
Aww snap. Time to play Garruk Tribal! I love that his ult is just a constant O.G. Garruk's ult
I've been wanting to jam Apex Garruk into my list for a while now, especially against planeswalkers. Guess it's time to live the dream.
Aww snap. Time to play Garruk Tribal! I love that his ult is just a constant O.G. Garruk's ult
I've been wanting to jam Apex Garruk into my list for a while now, especially against planeswalkers. Guess it's time to live the dream.
You read my mind! Ha. The wolves even pump ALL of your Garruk’s loyalty! Just another excuse to play more Garruk :). I could totally see myself using the new Garruk’s -3 to kill my own wolf so I could overrun Garruk Wildspeaker the turn he comes down. Garruk Tribal Devotion (or even just a Garruk-package in superfriends deck) could possibly be Modern-Level powerful.
He actually is a pretty versatile walker if you put all his cards together, you get ramp, card draw, token generation, creature removal, Planeswalker removal and even dramatic entrance effect if you want. Fun indeed. I’m super excited to try him out.
_______
I’m just as pumped about Theros too! Not till January; but it will be here soon! I’m just hoping for some level of Green Devotion top-end/finisher. Something like Grey-Merchant for black and/or Master of Waves for blue.
My dream would be a pseudo-hoof (where when it enters the battlefield all creatures get +X/+X where X is your Devotion to Green...but it’s CMC would have to be crazy high (which is fine by us!). If we could get any powerful payoff for Devotion outside of Nykthos; the decklists would become far more homogeneous.
ya I would definitely play garruk tribal again, that as a top end garruk does a lot. unfortunately garruk, caller of beasts isn't a finisher, like garruk, apex predator is. Playing tribal walkers I've kind of gotten the feel that 7 is pushing the cost for finishers. 6 being the sweet spot because at 4 mana you are going from garruk wildspeaker to 6 mana cost typically.
-----------
also I think the closest thing you have to pseudo-hoof already exists, in God-Eternal Rhonas doubling all power is pretty close.
ya I would definitely play garruk tribal again, that as a top end garruk does a lot. unfortunately garruk, caller of beasts isn't a finisher, like garruk, apex predator is. Playing tribal walkers I've kind of gotten the feel that 7 is pushing the cost for finishers. 6 being the sweet spot because at 4 mana you are going from garruk wildspeaker to 6 mana cost typically.
-----------
also I think the closest thing you have to pseudo-hoof already exists, in God-Eternal Rhonas doubling all power is pretty close.
Great points.
Yeah, Rhonas is cool. The only reason I wanted a "Devotion-Hoof" is because I tend to play smaller creatures (mana dorks, Elvish Visionary, Wistful Selkie, Witness, etc.) so being able to pump them by devotion rather than doubling their 1-2 power would be HUGE. I know Craterhoof already effectively is amazing...but counting devotion means that your walkers and enchantments could add to the buff (so even a 2-3 creatures/tokens could be huge and overrun)
I'm testing Garruk Tribal tonight. I'll let you know how effective the proliferate wolves work out. I do love that the Garruks and Nissa are both good if cast with Doubling Season on the board and good when you cast Doubling Season AFTER they are in play (i.e. they all auto ultimate, but also have abilities that revolve around +1/+1 counters and/or tokens. Most likely you don't need or even want Doubling Season (they are powerful enough on their own and you may be better off just playing Wave or Genesis Hydra for card advantage (DS tends to be best as a pure combo piece); but I will start there and then build one without it.
About Throne spoilers:
I like that this set (and probably Theros as well) are about monocolor play. Hopefully we get something cool. What I'm most interested in at the moment is the cycle of lands with basic types that enter untapped if you have 3 others, and give an effect. We haven't seen a green one yet, and the downside of ETB tapped early might not be worth it, but I want to see what it does.
The last two weeks I have gone 1-2 and 3-0 with my Naya Call Tooth list. The first week I beat storm, lost to Tron, then lost to Esper Shadow (I got greedy and didn't play around Stubborn Denial when I should have, which cost me the match.)
Tonight I got the bye, then beat UW control, then beat Humans. Didn't drop a single game.
After a few tweaks, here's the list as it stands now.
Given that the format is full of Force of Negation, and my shop is full of Stubborn Denial, I decided to replace Nissa, Vital Force with more creatures. Her roles were recursion and haste threat, which has been split up between Eternal Witness and Shifting Ceratops. I played the dinosaur in the side tonight - only because I pulled it out of a pack and don't have a 4th Veil of Summer - but it over-performed. Trying in the main as to give call a haste target. The fact that it bodies humans and spirits is just gravy.
On the subject of Noble Hierarch tribal decks, they may come back now that they can't just be out-aggro'd by Hogaak and co. Between mainboard Voracious Hydra, Shifting Ceratops, and Fiery Justice, and sideboard Magus of the Moon, I should have no trouble with them. Tonight, hydra ate a Noble and a Gaddock Teeg, while Ceratops held down the fort. Also, calling hydra in response to meddling mage on call was fun.
As cool as Llanowar Tribe is, I think sticking to Garruk is what makes this deck work. Not needing GGG on turn two lets me do things like run Fiery Justice and a Blast Zone. Tonight, I ticked the Zone up to 3 after my UW opponent put two Overgrowths under Detention Sphere, then let it sit there daring him to cast a sword, Teferi, or Monastery Mentor.
The current list I am playing is a little crazy; but the first Karn list I built was more of a traditional build.
My current list is:
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Coiling Oracle
3x Sylvan Caryatid
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Encbantment (10)
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
3x Doubling Season
1x Dovin, Hand of Control
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Jace, Architect of Thought
3x Nissa, Who Shakes the World
4x Karn, the Great Creator
Land (21)
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Wooded Foothills
2x breeding Pool
6x Forest
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Waterlogged Grove
The other two lists played the same "Core" but had slightly different Win-Conditions.
The First was a Karn-heavy deck
(Posting....had to take a quick break for baby....)
I think your sideboard is anormal Karn, the Great Creator sideboard?
And Emrakul, the Aeons Torn with Jace, Architect of Thought ore have u enough devotion to hard cast him?
You are 100% right. It is a relatively traditional "Karn Board"... with the other cards being Force of Vigor, Ashiok, Dream Render, Dovin, Hand of Control, and Terferi, Time Reveler (and one copy of Narset every once and a while). I'll post it in the deck shortly.
Yes...I have hard cast Emrakul WAY more often than I thought I would. I actually hard cast him on turn three last night in a match up against Neoform. The combination of Garruk Wildpseaker and Nissa Who Shakes the World can be crazy powerful.
I did add the Superfriends/Doubling Season package to this one; but really it is just the "Core" I;ve been playing with for some time now with the "Superfriends Package" as the alternate wincondition.
The Core I've been playing is:
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
3x Mana Creature
3x Coiling Oracle
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Nissa, Who Shakes the World
4x Karn, the Great Creator
These 28 cards allow for comfortable means of getting to 5-mana consistently by turn 3 even through a little hate. I have flirted with playing Simian Spirit Guide as well to ensure this...but I'm not certain the card disadvantage is worth it (if the speed of the format slows by a half turn or so).
I did play a list with Llanowar Tribe as well. Tribe is incredibly powerful. I just found there to be a lot of Bolts, Paths, Push, etc. out there; so I wanted anything over 2-CMC to replace itself. The one I played with Tribe was:
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
3x Coiling Oracle
4x Llanowar Tribe
1x Acidic Slime
1x Voracious Hydra
1x Hornet Queen
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (13)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Nissa, Who Shakes the World
4x Karn the Great Creator
1x Ugin the Ineffable
2x Karn Liberated
Nor sure the Ugin is really needed (thought it was a fun interaction with Karn due to all of the items you fetch being colorless....but you get the point...ramping to either Karn is pretty much the game plan.
I would probably just play Genesis Wave instead of Wealth (just easier to cast and you can plan what you may hit); but the idea looks like a blast!
It’s actually something I play when/if Control becomes prevalent. Wave tends to be more powerful (because you get every permanent you hit so often could hit the Karn and the mana to cast lattice); but Wave is also weak to counter spells.
I love Hydra. I’ve been hoping they would print a Walker with a Blood or even a Fling effect.
______
Testing Findings
The combination of Garruk Wildspeaker and Nissa, Who Shakes the World has been very strong. Both are good on their own; but also have really strong synergy. Between them, the Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl package and Oath+Karn....there are only like 10-11 slots left in my deck. Right now i have a Doubling Season set of cards...but you could replace it with something different if you wanted to.
I do wonder whether i should play Simian Spirit Guide for the speed...but card advantage is important for Devotion...so it would require a lot of card draw. The idea of playing a Through the Breach package crossed my mind. Gives us a reason to play Emrakul (which we can often hardcast) and Primeval Titan is always good. I may try that out as well.
Dovin, Hand of Control has been very useful. It is a sneaky powerful card. It’s like a Thalia and a Fog put together
______
Throne of Eldraine spoilers start next week. Oko (the new Walker) sounds like he is Sultai and more importantly GARRUK IS BACK!!! So here is hoping for some awesome green cards and awesome green walkers (although I wouldn’t expect a Garruk Walker until the next set given he is kinda Oko’s slave at this point in the story.
_______
If the meta truly stays a “turn 4” meta; we are in really good shape. I do worry that the success of Tron and Titan decks could cause opponents to have sideboard hate they wouldn’t otherwise; but our ramp is so spread out (between enchantments, walkers, dorks, and Nykthos, that even some land hate doesn’t necessarily hinder us. I played against a Titianshift deck that played Mwonvuki Acid-Moss and they killed Nyktos...but the next turn I cast Nissa WSTW and between an Arbor Elf and a Garruk I was able to cast Karn And Ensnarimg Bridge. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out...but right now it seems like a better Modern for ramp and Devotion.
How did you get around the bridge? We have some high powered creatures to swing with in our list.
I switched over to a tooth and nail build for some experimenting
i only went 2/2 officially but should of been 3/1
round 1 was against burn, games 1 and 2, I comboed out with Nissa and got tooth and nail to go off. However game 2, didn't kill him because he had a deflecting palm and redirected 30 damage of a xenago emrakul to me. wasn't happy about that. Game 3 he pulled the nuts on me instead of me.
round 2,
round 3, titanshift. didn't stand a chance game 1 he ramp and lands Mwonvuli Acid-Moss on my utopia sprawl land, few turns later combos. game 2, hits me again in the ramp, i scoop.
4. beat deaths shadow. game 1 I ramp into nissa, he mistakenly ignores her and go after my life, gets me to 3 life, next turn I tooth and nail. doesn't have any discard to stop me. game 2 I land thrun and he blocks my opponents only grimaw anglur. I with no way to remove thrun, he draws no answers for thrun, I get to 9 mana and go off with a tooth and nail to end it.
Black for liliana didn't do anything all night, idea was she'd be a tutor.
Didn't get titan out tonight so I never got the field of the dead to trigger. Nissa, did all the work.
2 Eternal Witness
2 Birds of Paradise
3 genesis hydra
4 Arbor Elf
3 courser of kruphix
4 Primeval Titan
1 thrun, the last troll
3 Tooth and Nail
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 liliana vess
4 nissa, who shakes the world
3 Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
1 field of the dead
1 [snow-covered swamp
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Stomping Ground
1 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 overgrown tomb
1 Murmuring Bosk
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
2 snow-covered forest
with
other card that i'm thinking about is Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, his proliferate might be useful with the walkers, but also supports the man lands nissa is creating.
Human's isn't a good match up either, a pro human creature might mean something as well.
In matchups like this one in particular I traditionally kill them with Walking Ballista. Generally once ensnaring bridge and lattice are in play...they can’t do much of anything. I can then cast a Ballista large enough to ping them to death.
There are a few other ways to get around a bridge; but this is generally my “go to” method when I have to quickly get a bridge out.
Not a Green Devotion staple by any means; but a strong card for superfriends versions.
The next set is Theros...I’m so pumped.
wheres the new garruk spoiled?
throne of eldraine or another set?
It is from Throne of Eldraine
I've been wanting to jam Apex Garruk into my list for a while now, especially against planeswalkers. Guess it's time to live the dream.
You read my mind! Ha. The wolves even pump ALL of your Garruk’s loyalty! Just another excuse to play more Garruk :). I could totally see myself using the new Garruk’s -3 to kill my own wolf so I could overrun Garruk Wildspeaker the turn he comes down. Garruk Tribal Devotion (or even just a Garruk-package in superfriends deck) could possibly be Modern-Level powerful.
He actually is a pretty versatile walker if you put all his cards together, you get ramp, card draw, token generation, creature removal, Planeswalker removal and even dramatic entrance effect if you want. Fun indeed. I’m super excited to try him out.
_______
I’m just as pumped about Theros too! Not till January; but it will be here soon! I’m just hoping for some level of Green Devotion top-end/finisher. Something like Grey-Merchant for black and/or Master of Waves for blue.
My dream would be a pseudo-hoof (where when it enters the battlefield all creatures get +X/+X where X is your Devotion to Green...but it’s CMC would have to be crazy high (which is fine by us!). If we could get any powerful payoff for Devotion outside of Nykthos; the decklists would become far more homogeneous.
ya I would definitely play garruk tribal again, that as a top end garruk does a lot. unfortunately garruk, caller of beasts isn't a finisher, like garruk, apex predator is. Playing tribal walkers I've kind of gotten the feel that 7 is pushing the cost for finishers. 6 being the sweet spot because at 4 mana you are going from garruk wildspeaker to 6 mana cost typically.
-----------
also I think the closest thing you have to pseudo-hoof already exists, in God-Eternal Rhonas doubling all power is pretty close.
Great points.
Yeah, Rhonas is cool. The only reason I wanted a "Devotion-Hoof" is because I tend to play smaller creatures (mana dorks, Elvish Visionary, Wistful Selkie, Witness, etc.) so being able to pump them by devotion rather than doubling their 1-2 power would be HUGE. I know Craterhoof already effectively is amazing...but counting devotion means that your walkers and enchantments could add to the buff (so even a 2-3 creatures/tokens could be huge and overrun)
I'm testing Garruk Tribal tonight. I'll let you know how effective the proliferate wolves work out. I do love that the Garruks and Nissa are both good if cast with Doubling Season on the board and good when you cast Doubling Season AFTER they are in play (i.e. they all auto ultimate, but also have abilities that revolve around +1/+1 counters and/or tokens. Most likely you don't need or even want Doubling Season (they are powerful enough on their own and you may be better off just playing Wave or Genesis Hydra for card advantage (DS tends to be best as a pure combo piece); but I will start there and then build one without it.
I like that this set (and probably Theros as well) are about monocolor play. Hopefully we get something cool. What I'm most interested in at the moment is the cycle of lands with basic types that enter untapped if you have 3 others, and give an effect. We haven't seen a green one yet, and the downside of ETB tapped early might not be worth it, but I want to see what it does.
The last two weeks I have gone 1-2 and 3-0 with my Naya Call Tooth list. The first week I beat storm, lost to Tron, then lost to Esper Shadow (I got greedy and didn't play around Stubborn Denial when I should have, which cost me the match.)
Tonight I got the bye, then beat UW control, then beat Humans. Didn't drop a single game.
After a few tweaks, here's the list as it stands now.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Overgrowth
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Primeval Titan
3 Tooth and Nail
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
4 Eladamri's Call
1 Giver of Runes
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shifting Ceratops
1 Voracious Hydra
1 World Breaker
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Blast Zone
2 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
7 Forest
Side
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Collector Ouphe
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of Autumn
2 Thragtusk
2 Damping Sphere