Until the new site is launched, I think Discord would be the place to go for questions/discussion in the next couple months.
As for the landbase...I think bumping up the land count to 22 could help cast GGG. Also, trimming Nykthos down to 3 may be needed in traditional Devotion. I don't think manlands are what the deck wants to do...those are mainly for decks trying to eek out edges in midrange matchups...this deck mostly smashes in one turn so it's not as useful. As for blast zone, I'm intrigued, but also skeptical with the number of non-green lands at that point.
Also in regards to the tribe - this may be heresy, but I could see a future where it replaces Garruk Wildspeaker and the list goes down a Coco avenue. Garruk can sometimes be clunky, and also sometimes only produces 2 mana...so a 3 drop that effectively ramps the same could be really beneficial.
"Better" is hard to qualify. Llanowar Tribe is more vulnerable than Overgrowth, but it makes more mana in the absence of cards like Arbor Elf. I'm definitely going to play Llanowar Tribein addition to Overgrowth. They just look like the best ramp cards you can possibly play after turn 1 by a large margin.
Also in regards to the tribe - this may be heresy, but I could see a future where it replaces Garruk Wildspeaker and the list goes down a Coco avenue. Garruk can sometimes be clunky, and also sometimes only produces 2 mana...so a 3 drop that effectively ramps the same could be really beneficial.
I don't think it's heresy. In fact, I cut my Garruks a long time ago. He was always too vulnerable, and especially so without cheaper creatures to block for him. Granted, I'm not a Nykthos deck exactly, so he isn't as crucial for me as he probably is for other players, but Llanowar Tribe will often come down sooner than Garruk (it's a lot easier to make 3 on turn 2 than it is to make 4), and will frequently tap for just as much if not more during most stages of the game without also being any more vulnerable on average.
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Until the new site is launched, I think Discord would be the place to go for questions/discussion in the next couple months.
As for the landbase...I think bumping up the land count to 22 could help cast GGG. Also, trimming Nykthos down to 3 may be needed in traditional Devotion. I don't think manlands are what the deck wants to do...those are mainly for decks trying to eek out edges in midrange matchups...this deck mostly smashes in one turn so it's not as useful. As for blast zone, I'm intrigued, but also skeptical with the number of non-green lands at that point.
Also in regards to the tribe - this may be heresy, but I could see a future where it replaces Garruk Wildspeaker and the list goes down a Coco avenue. Garruk can sometimes be clunky, and also sometimes only produces 2 mana...so a 3 drop that effectively ramps the same could be really beneficial.
I don't think that is a horrible idea at all. It does make the deck VERY vulnerable to board wipes and/or creature removal; but with enough resilience this could be mitigated to an extent (and every deck is weak to something).
I don't play Garruk in my creature-based build. Of course he sees ample play in the Walker build (as that build gets its absurd hands by untapping multiple times in one turn)...but unless you are in a place to utilize his ultimate consistently Llanowar Tribe could absolutely be a superior card. 3-CMC is a HUGE difference from 4 and being able to tap for 3 AND add 3 devotion makes up a lot for the crazy mana you can get untapping Nykthos. I think CoCo Devootion (with CoCo and Finale) is going to be fast, resilient, and powerful.
I may even, however, go back to my very first Devotion deck...Elf Devotion That is literally how I got into Devotion (moved from Elves when Nykthos was printed)...I could see potentially Ezuri or Joraga Warcaller be options if we run enough elves. It is an exciting card for sure.
The list I currently have runs
3x [[kiora, behemoth summoner]]
and
4x [[garruk wildspeaker]]
When I look at the other ramp pieces that I play I think cutting [[garruk wildspeaker]] is the best option. I don't think we should cut [[overgrowth]] and cutting any of our one drops is a no no. The reason I think cutting [[kiora, behemoth summoner]] is a bad idea is because she untaps land enchantments AND untaps [[llanowar tribe]]. Garruk, although a great card, is harder to reach, doesn't untap creatures, doesn't give as much devotion and unless he's untapping two enchanted lands he doesn't give any more mana than Kiora would be untapping an enchanted land or [[llanowar tribe]]
Garruk being able to make bodies is a bonus but I don't think we want to be playing the grind game. His ult is great and does work with [[llanowar tribe]] but I don't think that outweighs the negatives.
This is the deck I'm planning on running. Just slot in three [[llanowar tribe]]. It makes our starts soooo much more consistent. We've always been weak to spot removal but it makes having a ton of mana on turn 3 happen so much more often.
If wall of blossoms gets printed I think we could be seeing mono green devotion make some competitive play in the right metas.
So, Llanowar Tribe has worked me into a frenzy. With its printing, I now suspect 6-drops will be especially important. Between Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, Overgrowth, and Llanowar Tribe, there are just so many ways to get to 6 by turn 3 with only 4 or 5 cards.
That's SO MANY. And now you don't need exactly Overgrowth or some ludicrous number of Arbor Elves and Utopia Sprawls to get there. You can just play Llanowar Tribe in conjunction with two lands and any 1-drop. And sure, you could have always made 6 by turn 3 with something like Greenweaver Druid, but those lines always required 5 cards: a 1-drop, a 3-drop, and 3 lands. Llanowar Tribe now makes those same lines one card shorter, significantly increasing the odds you'll assemble them.
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I member your old Elf Devotion decks from the early pages Seems like just yesterday!
I Know! I've been so sad and reminiscent sine I heard about Salvations shutting down Seems like everything has come full circle...We'll make sur ewe have somewhere to talk. Can you believe it has been that long. There is still a few of us here since the very early days (you may have been here before even me if I can remember)...we'll keep going until we are tier 1!
This is the deck I'm planning on running. Just slot in three [[llanowar tribe]]. It makes our starts soooo much more consistent. We've always been weak to spot removal but it makes having a ton of mana on turn 3 happen so much more often.
If wall of blossoms gets printed I think we could be seeing mono green devotion make some competitive play in the right metas.
'
I like where you are here. I haven't played enough to be certain; but I do think you are right that Kiora is likely better to utilize (simply due to speed and the ability to untap Tribe) rather than Garruk. She is tougher to kill (I've found even by herself the opponent is not sure whether to try to attack her down from 6-7) and as you said untaps creatures too.
So, Llanowar Tribe has worked me into a frenzy. With its printing, I now suspect 6-drops will be especially important. Between Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, Overgrowth, and Llanowar Tribe, there are just so many ways to get to 6 by turn 3 with only 4 or 5 cards.
That's SO MANY. And now you don't need exactly Overgrowth or some ludicrous number of Arbor Elves and Utopia Sprawls to get there. You can just play Llanowar Tribe in conjunction with two lands and any 1-drop. And sure, you could have always made 6 by turn 3 with something like Greenweaver Druid, but those lines always required 5 cards: a 1-drop, a 3-drop, and 3 lands. Llanowar Tribe now makes those same lines one card shorter, significantly increasing the odds you'll assemble them.
This is a really great point. I mean...at 6 there is probably nothing better than Primeval Titan; but even Primal Command is great to be able to consistently cast on 5-CMC.
I don't really see the point in playing the new lands that sac to draw. I think it's incoorect to play below 16 forests. You would mulligan too much and the deck already mulligans a lot (in the dark, only keep first hand with a 1 drop accelerator). You have to go above 21 lands if you already have 4 nykthos and 1 kessig to integrate other value lands. I tried Horizon Canopy and it did not do enough. I am playing Coco, Witness, Primal Command etc, so I am not flooding that much and most problems I encounter are more about having my guys getting killed and missing 4th or 5th land than flooding.
I have been trying Jadelight Ranger over Courser of Kruphix. Courser is generally better than Jadelight over the long run, but I was thinking that the ability to dig could help the deck to be slightly faster, and pitching cards with Jadelight, thus not doing card advantage, would not be that much of a disadvantage since i was looking for precise cards(like coco, primal command). However, I feel like the deck is not consistent enough and as a result, it's probably often better to sit behind the courser waiting to draw something(plus there's a great synergy with fetches and the Knight if you are lucky to have both in play). I have then been trying 1 Yavimaya Dryad over a Courser and it seemed good. With 21 lands, I often brick and if my mana guys die, I still have a good amount of lands, plus the upside is not too bad since it provides 2 devotion and searches for a land.
By the way, I noticed there are some cards in the Collected Company that you would much prefer to hit off the Coco than play from your hand. Fauna Shaman as an example is cluncky since she does not do much at first (only Craterhoof as a target, and Knight if you have nothing to do, Bellower sometimes, sb slots), and does not do any mana or relevant devotion. It's good if you hit it of Company but hard to integrate in the curve from your hand. Wistful Selkie was a bit the same, because she costs GGG and the draw's not always impactful. I suspect the new GGG elf is suffering the same problem, since it is fragile as well. Given that the chances playing cards of your hand versus hitting them of the coco is about 70/30, I am not that confident about him for my deck. Still, given its upside, I'll try him and will probably be suprised.
Thanks Curdbros for taking care about the forum despite MtgSalvation being about to close (why are they by the way?)
They didn’t really give an exact reason (or I haven’t seen/understood it) but from what I understand the return on their time was much higher in their newer/other ventures. It sounds like they have more lucrative sites/options they want to spend their time/efforts on. It stinks; but can’t blame someone for doing what’s best for them/focusing on their opportunity.
They did say they will be providing a new site; so it may not be a relatively painless transition
I've been playing around with the deck on tapped out and my lord it's like playing a different deck now. It's still not as consistent as tron but my god it's soooooo much fun consistently craterhoofing for 30 damage on turn 4
All this deck now is some better draw/scry/cycle effects to make our draws more consistent and BAM this deck works
So basically for this to happen you need to have a bunch of the same kind of 1-drop, be it Arbor Elf or Utopia Sprawl, and no 3-drops because if you cast a 3-drop on turn 2, you're going to make it to 6 provided that none of your stuff gets blown up with one exception. (Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Land, Overgrowth doesn't get to 6 on turn 3 if you don't have a 3rd land.) Alternatively, if you have exactly two lands, exactly one Arbor Elf, and exactly one Utopia Sprawl, that also only gets you to 5, but one additional land, one additional Arbor Elf, or one additional Utopia Sprawl would each still get you to 6 provided that the additional Arbor Elf was cast turn 2.
This really demonstrates the importance of the 3-drop ramp spells. Not only do they make more mana, but they typically do so with fewer cards and with fewer redundant copies of cards, so they're more likely to happen. Ironically, that makes 6-drops easier to cast on turn 3 than 5-drops.
This is a really great point. I mean...at 6 there is probably nothing better than Primeval Titan; but even Primal Command is great to be able to consistently cast on 5-CMC.
Yeah, I'm kind of at a crossroads. I've peeked at all the 6-drops, and I'm really unsure which I should be playing. Primeval Titan is the obvious frontrunner. He enables your more expensive cards even if he's killed, and in the event that he isn't he runs away with the game. My biggest fear is that, despite Llanowar Tribe making it easier than ever to land a turn 3 Primeval Titan, Llanowar Tribe might just reduce the number of meaningful lands Primeval Titan can fetch by encouraging you to run only untapped green sources. Maybe you don't need more than two good lands to make Primeval Titan worthwhile (I'm thinking Nykthos and Kessig Wolf Run), but I'm leery nonetheless.
My next three considerations (in no particular order) are Carnage Tyrant, Ravager Wurm, and Hydroid Krasis. Carnage Tyrant is sweet in that it's virtually unkillable. It doesn't do anything other than be a big idiot, but it also applies a lot of pressure, and if your opponent doesn't have exactly a sweeper, then they're not going to get rid of it unless they also have enough power to block it. Ravager Wurm is perhaps the most devastating card. The dream is to cast this turn 3 on the play and destroy one of your opponent's lands, setting them back to the stone age. The Wurm boasts a less than stellar body though, and it's entirely possible there aren't any cards in play that it can kill if you play it too early, so I'm wary this is the right call. Hydroid Krasis isn't the most impressive monster at x equals 4, but a 4/4 flample that refunds you two cards is tolerable enough that it may be worth playing anyway. I generally hate X spells in general, but the flexibility here might make this one of the best choices.
Another card I'm looking at is Karn, the Great Creator. At 6 mana turn 3, you can cast Karn for 4, -2 him, and then cast whatever relevant 2-drop artifact you want with the rest of your mana (Spellskite, Sorcerous Spyglass, Defense Grid, Torpor Orb, Vivien's Arkbow). Then, on the following turn, provided the coast is still clear, you just -2 Karn again, find Mycosynth Lattice, and win the game. While there will certainly be instances where he isn't very good (like if you're staring down a board full of creatures), he's incredibly flexible. You can play him turn 2 with the right opener, and with 10 mana you can even throw down Lattice immediately.
EDIT2: Something I just realized is that, if you want to cast a multicolor 6-drop off the back of a Llanowar Tribe opener, you're 100% going to need a shockland because both Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl have to make G in order to cast Llanowar Tribe turn 2. That isn't the end of the world, mind you. With enough fetches, you can likely find a shockland the first two turns of the game anyway. It just constrains what 6-drops you probably want to cast since, unless you fill your deck to the brim with fetchlands, not every opener with two lands, a 1-drop, and Llanowar Tribe will have fetches and shocks. Sometimes those two lands are just going to be basic Forests, and it's really going to suck if you can make 6 turn 3 but can't cast your 6-drop because you can only make GGGGGG. Not to mention, if you only have shocks and neither fetches nor basics, then Utopia Sprawl is going to have to enchant a shock, making it much more vulnerable to stuff like Field of Ruin. For these reasons, I suspect multicolor 6-drops are probably undesirable.
I'm not really seeing any benefit here to llanowar tribe over Somberwald Sage. We've had sage for years and its never made the cut due to vulnerability. just because tribe is immune to shock doesn't make it much better than somberwald.
All of a sudden we want to be less vulnerable to turn 2 negate when casting our 3cc mana dork/enchantment?
There are a few benefits to Llanowar Tribe that may make a difference.
1) A 3/3 body can block 2/x aggro dudes early game.
2) It provides 3 pips for Devotion
3) It can help you cast your non-creature spells like planeswalkers, Commands, Finales, Cocos, what-have-you. Sage is limited to just creatures.
Yes it still dies to anything, just like any other Llanowar Elves would. Time and testing will tell if this is too fragile.
Somberwald Sage is so much worse than Tribe, that should be apparent. As for fragility...literally all of Devotion's creatures are fragile to removal, so using that as a metric is not worthwhile.
The main boon I see for Tribe is that it demands an answer that turn. If the opponent doesn't have one at that moment, it is bad news. I am much more willing to play a creature that either a) dies to bolt or b) wins the game, than a middling midrange creature. Tribe allows normal Devotion to have a quicker ramp strategy similar to T&N, which I would argue is a more competitive deck. Having a linear gameplan is where you want to be in Modern, and since the color green has no interaction, that's the path we should follow as well. Sometimes you just have to keep it simple and go T1 dork, T2 Tribe, T3 Hornet Queen. No cutesie ***** just gimme dat ramp.
Somberwald Sage is so much worse than Tribe, that should be apparent. As for fragility...literally all of Devotion's creatures are fragile to removal, so using that as a metric is not worthwhile.
The main boon I see for Tribe is that it demands an answer that turn. If the opponent doesn't have one at that moment, it is bad news. I am much more willing to play a creature that either a) dies to bolt or b) wins the game, than a middling midrange creature. Tribe allows normal Devotion to have a quicker ramp strategy similar to T&N, which I would argue is a more competitive deck. Having a linear gameplan is where you want to be in Modern, and since the color green has no interaction, that's the path we should follow as well. Sometimes you just have to keep it simple and go T1 dork, T2 Tribe, T3 Hornet Queen. No cutesie ***** just gimme dat ramp.
These are my thoughts verbatim. Not everything you play is going to have hexproof, indestructible, and an ETB trigger. Some of your cards will inevitably be destroyed. That doesn't mean those cards aren't worth playing. Nay, we play such cards despite the fact they will sometimes be destroyed because they're just so impactful in the moments they aren't. Granted, I think there are still instances where being resilient matters. Specifically, when it comes to payoff cards, I think you definitely want something that won't be easily thwarted. After all, if you invest multiple turns worth of cards and mana into ramping out some giant-but-easily-dispatched threat, you risk having everything you've done up until that point invalidated if your opponent does answer it.
Also, this should go without saying, but Llanowar Tribe is in a completely different ball park than Somberwald Sage. Not only is a 3/3 body much more relevant than an 0/1, but unless your top end is exactly creatures, you can't to use Somberwald Sage to help you cast, say, Tooth and Nail.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
I've missed this thread and you guys. I got into commander specifically because I tried getting cute with my version of this build. I ended up with a bunch of non green bombs and a list of nearly 80 cards. Oh boy.
Anyhow, reading this last page has me hard as granite for this deck.
I'm glad that I still have all but a couple new cards to build this again.
I hope that the transition to the new site is easy on everybody.
Man. Off to swipe through my pile o' green for PRIME TIME!
I've been playing around with the deck on tapped out and my lord it's like playing a different deck now. It's still not as consistent as tron but my god it's soooooo much fun consistently craterhoofing for 30 damage on turn 4
All this deck now is some better draw/scry/cycle effects to make our draws more consistent and BAM this deck works
I've missed this thread and you guys. I got into commander specifically because I tried getting cute with my version of this build. I ended up with a bunch of non green bombs and a list of nearly 80 cards. Oh boy.
Anyhow, reading this last page has me hard as granite for this deck.
I'm glad that I still have all but a couple new cards to build this again.
I hope that the transition to the new site is easy on everybody.
Man. Off to swipe through my pile o' green for PRIME TIME!
Great to hear from you again ThorsHammer! We have got some really interesting cards as of late. The majority are just faster/more efficient versions of effects we've had access to before...but that sometimes is all a deck needs (we had the power...we just needed the speed/consistency).
As for the landbase...I think bumping up the land count to 22 could help cast GGG. Also, trimming Nykthos down to 3 may be needed in traditional Devotion. I don't think manlands are what the deck wants to do...those are mainly for decks trying to eek out edges in midrange matchups...this deck mostly smashes in one turn so it's not as useful. As for blast zone, I'm intrigued, but also skeptical with the number of non-green lands at that point.
Also in regards to the tribe - this may be heresy, but I could see a future where it replaces Garruk Wildspeaker and the list goes down a Coco avenue. Garruk can sometimes be clunky, and also sometimes only produces 2 mana...so a 3 drop that effectively ramps the same could be really beneficial.
I don't think it's heresy. In fact, I cut my Garruks a long time ago. He was always too vulnerable, and especially so without cheaper creatures to block for him. Granted, I'm not a Nykthos deck exactly, so he isn't as crucial for me as he probably is for other players, but Llanowar Tribe will often come down sooner than Garruk (it's a lot easier to make 3 on turn 2 than it is to make 4), and will frequently tap for just as much if not more during most stages of the game without also being any more vulnerable on average.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
I don't think that is a horrible idea at all. It does make the deck VERY vulnerable to board wipes and/or creature removal; but with enough resilience this could be mitigated to an extent (and every deck is weak to something).
I don't play Garruk in my creature-based build. Of course he sees ample play in the Walker build (as that build gets its absurd hands by untapping multiple times in one turn)...but unless you are in a place to utilize his ultimate consistently Llanowar Tribe could absolutely be a superior card. 3-CMC is a HUGE difference from 4 and being able to tap for 3 AND add 3 devotion makes up a lot for the crazy mana you can get untapping Nykthos. I think CoCo Devootion (with CoCo and Finale) is going to be fast, resilient, and powerful.
I may even, however, go back to my very first Devotion deck...Elf Devotion That is literally how I got into Devotion (moved from Elves when Nykthos was printed)...I could see potentially Ezuri or Joraga Warcaller be options if we run enough elves. It is an exciting card for sure.
The list I currently have runs
3x [[kiora, behemoth summoner]]
and
4x [[garruk wildspeaker]]
When I look at the other ramp pieces that I play I think cutting [[garruk wildspeaker]] is the best option. I don't think we should cut [[overgrowth]] and cutting any of our one drops is a no no. The reason I think cutting [[kiora, behemoth summoner]] is a bad idea is because she untaps land enchantments AND untaps [[llanowar tribe]]. Garruk, although a great card, is harder to reach, doesn't untap creatures, doesn't give as much devotion and unless he's untapping two enchanted lands he doesn't give any more mana than Kiora would be untapping an enchanted land or [[llanowar tribe]]
Garruk being able to make bodies is a bonus but I don't think we want to be playing the grind game. His ult is great and does work with [[llanowar tribe]] but I don't think that outweighs the negatives.
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Arbor Elf
1 Eternal Witness
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Hornet Queen
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Primeval Titan
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Overgrowth
4 Oath of Nissa
Land
16 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Stomping Ground
4 Summoner's Pact
Sorcery
2 Primal Command
Planeswalker
3 Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
This is the deck I'm planning on running. Just slot in three [[llanowar tribe]]. It makes our starts soooo much more consistent. We've always been weak to spot removal but it makes having a ton of mana on turn 3 happen so much more often.
If wall of blossoms gets printed I think we could be seeing mono green devotion make some competitive play in the right metas.
7 mana, 4 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Land, Overgrowth
6 mana, 4 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Land, Llanowar Tribe
6 mana, 4 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl
6 mana, 4 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Utopia Sprawl, Utopia Sprawl
6 mana, 4 cards:Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Land, Llanowar Tribe
6 mana, 4 cards:Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Arbor Elf, Arbor Elf
6 mana, 4 cards:Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl
6 mana, 5 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Land
6 mana, 5 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Utopia Sprawl
6 mana, 5 cards:Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Land, Overgrowth —> Land
That's SO MANY. And now you don't need exactly Overgrowth or some ludicrous number of Arbor Elves and Utopia Sprawls to get there. You can just play Llanowar Tribe in conjunction with two lands and any 1-drop. And sure, you could have always made 6 by turn 3 with something like Greenweaver Druid, but those lines always required 5 cards: a 1-drop, a 3-drop, and 3 lands. Llanowar Tribe now makes those same lines one card shorter, significantly increasing the odds you'll assemble them.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
I Know! I've been so sad and reminiscent sine I heard about Salvations shutting down Seems like everything has come full circle...We'll make sur ewe have somewhere to talk. Can you believe it has been that long. There is still a few of us here since the very early days (you may have been here before even me if I can remember)...we'll keep going until we are tier 1!
I like where you are here. I haven't played enough to be certain; but I do think you are right that Kiora is likely better to utilize (simply due to speed and the ability to untap Tribe) rather than Garruk. She is tougher to kill (I've found even by herself the opponent is not sure whether to try to attack her down from 6-7) and as you said untaps creatures too.
This is a really great point. I mean...at 6 there is probably nothing better than Primeval Titan; but even Primal Command is great to be able to consistently cast on 5-CMC.
I have been trying Jadelight Ranger over Courser of Kruphix. Courser is generally better than Jadelight over the long run, but I was thinking that the ability to dig could help the deck to be slightly faster, and pitching cards with Jadelight, thus not doing card advantage, would not be that much of a disadvantage since i was looking for precise cards(like coco, primal command). However, I feel like the deck is not consistent enough and as a result, it's probably often better to sit behind the courser waiting to draw something(plus there's a great synergy with fetches and the Knight if you are lucky to have both in play). I have then been trying 1 Yavimaya Dryad over a Courser and it seemed good. With 21 lands, I often brick and if my mana guys die, I still have a good amount of lands, plus the upside is not too bad since it provides 2 devotion and searches for a land.
By the way, I noticed there are some cards in the Collected Company that you would much prefer to hit off the Coco than play from your hand. Fauna Shaman as an example is cluncky since she does not do much at first (only Craterhoof as a target, and Knight if you have nothing to do, Bellower sometimes, sb slots), and does not do any mana or relevant devotion. It's good if you hit it of Company but hard to integrate in the curve from your hand. Wistful Selkie was a bit the same, because she costs GGG and the draw's not always impactful. I suspect the new GGG elf is suffering the same problem, since it is fragile as well. Given that the chances playing cards of your hand versus hitting them of the coco is about 70/30, I am not that confident about him for my deck. Still, given its upside, I'll try him and will probably be suprised.
Thanks Curdbros for taking care about the forum despite MtgSalvation being about to close (why are they by the way?)
They did say they will be providing a new site; so it may not be a relatively painless transition
YEEEEEEEEEES HERE WE GO BOIS
I've been playing around with the deck on tapped out and my lord it's like playing a different deck now. It's still not as consistent as tron but my god it's soooooo much fun consistently craterhoofing for 30 damage on turn 4
All this deck now is some better draw/scry/cycle effects to make our draws more consistent and BAM this deck works
5 mana, 4 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Land, Utopia Sprawl
5 mana, 5 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Land, Arbor Elf, Arbor Elf
5 mana, 5 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Land, Arbor Elf —> Land
5 mana, 5 cards:Land, Arbor Elf —> Arbor Elf, Arbor Elf —> Land
5 mana, 5 cards:Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Land, Utopia Sprawl, Utopia Sprawl
5 mana, 5 cards:Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Land
5 mana, 5 cards:Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Utopia Sprawl, Utopia Sprawl —> Land
So basically for this to happen you need to have a bunch of the same kind of 1-drop, be it Arbor Elf or Utopia Sprawl, and no 3-drops because if you cast a 3-drop on turn 2, you're going to make it to 6 provided that none of your stuff gets blown up with one exception. (Land, Utopia Sprawl —> Land, Overgrowth doesn't get to 6 on turn 3 if you don't have a 3rd land.) Alternatively, if you have exactly two lands, exactly one Arbor Elf, and exactly one Utopia Sprawl, that also only gets you to 5, but one additional land, one additional Arbor Elf, or one additional Utopia Sprawl would each still get you to 6 provided that the additional Arbor Elf was cast turn 2.
This really demonstrates the importance of the 3-drop ramp spells. Not only do they make more mana, but they typically do so with fewer cards and with fewer redundant copies of cards, so they're more likely to happen. Ironically, that makes 6-drops easier to cast on turn 3 than 5-drops.
Yeah, I'm kind of at a crossroads. I've peeked at all the 6-drops, and I'm really unsure which I should be playing. Primeval Titan is the obvious frontrunner. He enables your more expensive cards even if he's killed, and in the event that he isn't he runs away with the game. My biggest fear is that, despite Llanowar Tribe making it easier than ever to land a turn 3 Primeval Titan, Llanowar Tribe might just reduce the number of meaningful lands Primeval Titan can fetch by encouraging you to run only untapped green sources. Maybe you don't need more than two good lands to make Primeval Titan worthwhile (I'm thinking Nykthos and Kessig Wolf Run), but I'm leery nonetheless.
My next three considerations (in no particular order) are Carnage Tyrant, Ravager Wurm, and Hydroid Krasis. Carnage Tyrant is sweet in that it's virtually unkillable. It doesn't do anything other than be a big idiot, but it also applies a lot of pressure, and if your opponent doesn't have exactly a sweeper, then they're not going to get rid of it unless they also have enough power to block it. Ravager Wurm is perhaps the most devastating card. The dream is to cast this turn 3 on the play and destroy one of your opponent's lands, setting them back to the stone age. The Wurm boasts a less than stellar body though, and it's entirely possible there aren't any cards in play that it can kill if you play it too early, so I'm wary this is the right call. Hydroid Krasis isn't the most impressive monster at x equals 4, but a 4/4 flample that refunds you two cards is tolerable enough that it may be worth playing anyway. I generally hate X spells in general, but the flexibility here might make this one of the best choices.
Another card I'm looking at is Karn, the Great Creator. At 6 mana turn 3, you can cast Karn for 4, -2 him, and then cast whatever relevant 2-drop artifact you want with the rest of your mana (Spellskite, Sorcerous Spyglass, Defense Grid, Torpor Orb, Vivien's Arkbow). Then, on the following turn, provided the coast is still clear, you just -2 Karn again, find Mycosynth Lattice, and win the game. While there will certainly be instances where he isn't very good (like if you're staring down a board full of creatures), he's incredibly flexible. You can play him turn 2 with the right opener, and with 10 mana you can even throw down Lattice immediately.
EDIT2: Something I just realized is that, if you want to cast a multicolor 6-drop off the back of a Llanowar Tribe opener, you're 100% going to need a shockland because both Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl have to make G in order to cast Llanowar Tribe turn 2. That isn't the end of the world, mind you. With enough fetches, you can likely find a shockland the first two turns of the game anyway. It just constrains what 6-drops you probably want to cast since, unless you fill your deck to the brim with fetchlands, not every opener with two lands, a 1-drop, and Llanowar Tribe will have fetches and shocks. Sometimes those two lands are just going to be basic Forests, and it's really going to suck if you can make 6 turn 3 but can't cast your 6-drop because you can only make GGGGGG. Not to mention, if you only have shocks and neither fetches nor basics, then Utopia Sprawl is going to have to enchant a shock, making it much more vulnerable to stuff like Field of Ruin. For these reasons, I suspect multicolor 6-drops are probably undesirable.
As someone who wasn't already playing Elvish Visionary, I'm not sure how excited I should be about this.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
All of a sudden we want to be less vulnerable to turn 2 negate when casting our 3cc mana dork/enchantment?
1) A 3/3 body can block 2/x aggro dudes early game.
2) It provides 3 pips for Devotion
3) It can help you cast your non-creature spells like planeswalkers, Commands, Finales, Cocos, what-have-you. Sage is limited to just creatures.
Yes it still dies to anything, just like any other Llanowar Elves would. Time and testing will tell if this is too fragile.
The main boon I see for Tribe is that it demands an answer that turn. If the opponent doesn't have one at that moment, it is bad news. I am much more willing to play a creature that either a) dies to bolt or b) wins the game, than a middling midrange creature. Tribe allows normal Devotion to have a quicker ramp strategy similar to T&N, which I would argue is a more competitive deck. Having a linear gameplan is where you want to be in Modern, and since the color green has no interaction, that's the path we should follow as well. Sometimes you just have to keep it simple and go T1 dork, T2 Tribe, T3 Hornet Queen. No cutesie ***** just gimme dat ramp.
Also, this should go without saying, but Llanowar Tribe is in a completely different ball park than Somberwald Sage. Not only is a 3/3 body much more relevant than an 0/1, but unless your top end is exactly creatures, you can't to use Somberwald Sage to help you cast, say, Tooth and Nail.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Anyhow, reading this last page has me hard as granite for this deck.
I'm glad that I still have all but a couple new cards to build this again.
I hope that the transition to the new site is easy on everybody.
Man. Off to swipe through my pile o' green for PRIME TIME!
That's AWESOME! So excited to play this weekend.
Great to hear from you again ThorsHammer! We have got some really interesting cards as of late. The majority are just faster/more efficient versions of effects we've had access to before...but that sometimes is all a deck needs (we had the power...we just needed the speed/consistency).