okay gotcha... I luckily pulled a lattice from Iconic Masters so i got all the pieces... If you dont have karn on turn 2 or 3 then you just go with the original gameplan, correct?
Yep! You can just do your normal game plan. Looks like the deck Tom Ross wrote about also played the Madcap + Collosus combo too. That’s actually not a bad idea...basically any “I win” with a cmc of 4 is something we can be the best at.
That is awesome you pulled that! Can you imagine how many people got upset thy they pulled Lattice only to now be SOOOO happy
Ok, I am super confused. With no artifacts in the main board, how exactly do you use Madcap properly? I’m not seeing it...lol
They play a 1-of Platinum Emperion. With no other artifacts; Madcap will always hit Emperion. It’s a separate combo from Karn+Lattice...this brewer just crammed both combos in the same deck!
Thoughts on Potential Green Walker in Modern Horizons
I was so super excited for that treefolk Planeswalker in the back of Planebound Accomplice’s art (as it had to be green being a Treefolk or more likely a Caryatid...)then I remembered the art from the preview show...Now I think it might be five-colors
I know it’s speculation; but I thought it could be one of the important cards for Devotion at first...
At first I thought it may be Gaea (with like GGGG casting cost) so I was super excited...then I thought, “why would they put her in the back of Accomplice’s art?”....Then I looked at the art from the March 1st show. It contains every color relatively prominently...and Caryatids often tap for any color. That made me feel that it was more likely to be 5-color (hence the sneak attack being great) than heavy green...crap.
Granted, if it’s good enough we can play it (between Utopia Sprawl, Abundant Growth, Birds, Oath, etc. we can actually play a 5-color Walker)...but I was hoping it would be a Devotion-heavy card too.
Let’s keep our fingers crossed it’s awesome either way!
* I put it in a spoiler as it is speculation and people may not want any previews even if it is just discussing available art. *
I was so excited to see a 1-drop green card at Mythic! And a mana-sink! Then I read the Translation. I’m not quite sure what to think. It is a mana sink; so that’s nice. Protection from everything is cool...but they can respond to you leveling it up...so you pour mana into it and they just kill it before it has protection. And it still does to most board wipes. I’m afraid unfortunately as cool as it is that this may not help us (which makes me super sad as I thought the green mythic in the “Modern set” would be bonkers for us). Hopefully, however, I am wrong.
It is nice to be able to play it on turn one for the Devotion and then just put all your excess mana into it (I.e. mana that you wouldn’t use anyways each turn)...so it may be worth testing...but right now I just don’t see it. Fun, but underwhelming. Let me know your guys/gals thoughts. Am I missing something?
I'm not a buyer on Hexdrinker. Considering it only goes up to a 6/6 for 9 mana doesn't seem like a great return. In the early game I want to be ramping, not playing a do-nothing 2/1 that requires even more mana to do anything. Even if I have the mana to plop him down and go straight to lvl8, 6 dmg isn't exactly game-winning. I'd rather have Crafterhoof and just win on the spot. This could be "fine" in a grindier shell that wants to go long, but it's just not all that exciting.
I guess it's better for more attrition-style decks that want to play for the long game and have a long-term threat. Rock would probably like this card, but can they make space for it, and is it better than Tarmogoyf?
I can also see it in mono-green stompy where getting an early 2/1 creature can be a quick start, but it requires mana to grow, instead of growing naturally like Pelt Collector or Experiment One. I know some lists run Dryad Militant, which seems like a good upgrade slot.
Yeah nah I'm super sad about hexdrinker. I don't understand what deck it is meant to go into. Best kind of deck for it is a grinder midrange deck that ramps through two drops. So I don't see it going into anything let alone a devotion build.
Wrenn and Six is quite interesting...a 2-drop Walker with two good but not great abilities (and a relatively useless ultimate for us).
I’m going to test 1-2 (as I now play Blast Zone and the Horizon lands and fetch lands...and it never hurts to get a second Nykthos back each turn :). It’s also infinite damage in my combo which is nice. It’s really hard for a 2-drop walker to not be good. Even if all it does is work as a mini-Crucible it may be worth it at 2-cmc. Granted, for me it’s infinite damage within the combo so I am over-valuing it a bit.
It’s not 100% on plan though. Just too hard for me to theory craft...but I feel certain it will be a 1-of in my deck.
Looks like they are working hard for lands to be a thing in Modern. I wonder if Nykthos would make for a good lands deck? Between Courser, all the land enchantments, our walkers that deal with lands, etc. I think there is likely a land Devotion deck now.
Wow...may be win-more...but may just be “win” too :). We have a lot of X options (Finale, Kessig Wolf Run, Ballista,, Wave, Genesis Hydra, etc.) ; but 3-mana “do nothing on its own” cards are extremely hard to make work in Modern unless you build the deck around them...and even then they are a stretch.
But that is a super powerful effect...finale grabbing two creatures, etc. is unreal. It looks like rather than porting in to some Devotion decks; It may just need to be built around for a new deck more focused on x-spells.
I feel like they should have named this set “EDH Horizons” as so many of the cards seem bonkers in EDH but may not quite make the cut in Modern :). This one is close though...that is a very powerful effect.
_____
On a different note.... Pillage is a good reprint that might go in some red sideboards.
I honestly don't know what to think about Unbound Flourishing...I feel like it is possible to be busted if you build around it...but then that part of my head that says "you really can't play cards with no immediate impact that rely on other cards to work" chimes back in.
What does everyone think? I'm sad because we haven't got that card yet that makes me go "Wow...this is a great new Devotion card..." but I don’t want to sound like they should have developed anything just for us...it just stinks seeing some really interesting design in green (hexdrinker, Unbound flourishing, Wrenn & Six) and we may not be able to utilize them. I want this truly bonkers power-level card to work...I just worry that it may not be fast enough for Modern.
Nah I think it's fair to be pooped that there isn't one really obvious 'one that's great in green devotion'. This whole set was meant to push fringe decks and mono green devotion is exactly that. At this point I'm not even expecting wall of blossoms to be printed and when they announced the set I thought that card would be a given
The thing with Unbound Flourishing is that you can get use out of it as soon as it enter because of the second clause. For instance, if you have a creature like Magus of the Candelabra, you can potentially get use out of Flourishing immediately even if they try to kill it. Also, it’s an enchantment so it’s harder to kill. It’s a mana ramp source as well as a combo piece.
I think it has some potential, I’m at least curious how it can be used even if it’s not super competitive.
Hexdrinker is not meant Green Devotion, despite the fact that we can make it big, that’s just a waste of our mana. We have better things to do with lots of mana.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Unbound Flourishing triggers on cast...so it could be an interesting way to play around counter magic (even if they counter the wave you still get the other one). Of course now Flusterstorm exists; but if I’m thinking of the rules correctly (which is always a crapshoot with me this may. E an interesting way to play against control.
The thing with Unbound Flourishing is that you can get use out of it as soon as it enter because of the second clause. For instance, if you have a creature like Magus of the Candelabra, you can potentially get use out of Flourishing immediately even if they try to kill it. Also, it’s an enchantment so it’s harder to kill. It’s a mana ramp source as well as a combo piece.
I think it has some potential, I’m at least curious how it can be used even if it’s not super competitive.
Hexdrinker is not meant Green Devotion, despite the fact that we can make it big, that’s just a waste of our mana. We have better things to do with lots of mana.
I do love the idea of Magus of the moon as well. Great with Sprawl and other land enchantments and busted with Flourishing. I actually played Magus in a list over a year ago (as it ran both Sprawl and Fertile Ground) but didn’t like that if played on turn 1 and you didn’t have a Sprawl for turn two it did nothing for two turns. It does some crazy stuff with Nykthos though. It felt like the speed sacrifice wasn’t worth the potential. Flourishing may change that.
I was more worried about the turn-2 Flourishing’s doing not much (if anything). Like where you go T1 Bird, T2 Flourishing....but it’s pure power could be worth it. With Magus, Wolf Run, Wave, Finale, Banefire, Bonfire, and a million other options...I could see a deck that does some absolutely bonkers things by turns 4-5 (with the turn 3 god hands every once in a while.
If Wild Growth does get a reprint; Magus of the Candelabradoes become significantly better. If I didn’t already have a few sets; I’d pick one up.
* yes I know it is 61 cards. I’ve liked playing one extra and 3 Horizon lands...allows you to avoid BOTH flooding and land screw more consistently.
* Trying out only 2 copies of bird...so far so good. Could play three (but would likely have to cut an Oath).
* not certain Acidic Slime is necessary anymore in the main...but we’ll see.
* Karn has become the main win-con in the deck. Even with Wave it’s awesome as you hit Karn and land/and untap walker and can the. Tutor for Lattice and cast it the same turn. I will always have the Cloudstone Curio Combo available for Walkers; but Karn is simply a better option at this point. He also works within the combo.
Eladamri’s Call is real good. Compare it to Finale. With Eladamri’s Call, if you don’t have the full mana to get the creature you want, you can still spend 2 mana and cast it the following turn. Plus Call is an instant which is always a plus.
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Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I read the first line of Springbloom Druid about the sac a land clause and briefly got super excited we actually got a Crop Rotation variant, but then it turned out to just be Harrow and I was sad again.
Wild Growth is still possible according to the number crunch. I'm not saying we're definitely getting Wild Growth, but we're definitely getting Wild Growth.
Wild Growth is still possible according to the number crunch. I'm not saying we're definitely getting Wild Growth, but we're definitely getting Wild Growth.
If I'm wrong, I'll eat an orange.
Haha! Love it!
That is good news though.
________
SCG put up some Vs. videos today and one plays “Mono Green Ramp”...No nykthos (plays snow covered lands and scrying sheets)...but plays a full set of Primal Command, a full set of Finale, the Vizier Combo, a set of Karn, and many of our normal toolbox cards.
Personally, i think Karn is a mainstay in Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl decks for the future (including many Devotion decks). It has just been so good in my play experience.
I do like the idea of the Devoted Druid Combo with Finale as well...not entirely certain is put them in the same deck; but the Vizier Combo is really only one extra card if you can make use of Devoted Druid for things like Command on turn 3, etc....it is nice guy Karn can grab Ballista once you have infinite mana though.
I do wonder, however, how Devotion can improve such a deck (I.e. if the Druid/Vizier Combo works well without Devotion, how does devotion make it better?)
We can do Karn better than others because:
(A) we can get to 10 mana by turn 3 (and definitely by turn 4) so even if you don’t play him on turn 2 you can still lock the opponent on turn 3 or 4.
(B) we play Oath of Nissa to dig for him. We can play Ancient Stirrings as well if we wanted to (to also hit lands, Curio...I’ve been tying this out a bit)
(C) we often have excess mana to make use of Kafn’s Tutor ability the turn we play him.
Having said this, is there a reason to not play the Druid combo in a Finale deck? Does Eldamri’s Call change things? Interesting questions for us to figure out.
Both Primal Command and Force of Vigor have been amazing out of the board. I actually really like where command is now.
For us it's a 3 mana deal 3 damage to every creature. It hits our own creatures but I think some level of build around could make this a pretty dope piece of early interaction.
Maybe devotion isn't the best deck for this (maybe a deck with a lot of land tutoring, coursers, etc would be better?)
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Yep! You can just do your normal game plan. Looks like the deck Tom Ross wrote about also played the Madcap + Collosus combo too. That’s actually not a bad idea...basically any “I win” with a cmc of 4 is something we can be the best at.
That is awesome you pulled that! Can you imagine how many people got upset thy they pulled Lattice only to now be SOOOO happy
They play a 1-of Platinum Emperion. With no other artifacts; Madcap will always hit Emperion. It’s a separate combo from Karn+Lattice...this brewer just crammed both combos in the same deck!
Thoughts on Potential Green Walker in Modern Horizons
I was so super excited for that treefolk Planeswalker in the back of Planebound Accomplice’s art (as it had to be green being a Treefolk or more likely a Caryatid...)then I remembered the art from the preview show...Now I think it might be five-colors
I know it’s speculation; but I thought it could be one of the important cards for Devotion at first...
At first I thought it may be Gaea (with like GGGG casting cost) so I was super excited...then I thought, “why would they put her in the back of Accomplice’s art?”....Then I looked at the art from the March 1st show. It contains every color relatively prominently...and Caryatids often tap for any color. That made me feel that it was more likely to be 5-color (hence the sneak attack being great) than heavy green...crap.
Granted, if it’s good enough we can play it (between Utopia Sprawl, Abundant Growth, Birds, Oath, etc. we can actually play a 5-color Walker)...but I was hoping it would be a Devotion-heavy card too.
Let’s keep our fingers crossed it’s awesome either way!
* I put it in a spoiler as it is speculation and people may not want any previews even if it is just discussing available art. *
I was so excited to see a 1-drop green card at Mythic! And a mana-sink! Then I read the Translation. I’m not quite sure what to think. It is a mana sink; so that’s nice. Protection from everything is cool...but they can respond to you leveling it up...so you pour mana into it and they just kill it before it has protection. And it still does to most board wipes. I’m afraid unfortunately as cool as it is that this may not help us (which makes me super sad as I thought the green mythic in the “Modern set” would be bonkers for us). Hopefully, however, I am wrong.
It is nice to be able to play it on turn one for the Devotion and then just put all your excess mana into it (I.e. mana that you wouldn’t use anyways each turn)...so it may be worth testing...but right now I just don’t see it. Fun, but underwhelming. Let me know your guys/gals thoughts. Am I missing something?
I guess it's better for more attrition-style decks that want to play for the long game and have a long-term threat. Rock would probably like this card, but can they make space for it, and is it better than Tarmogoyf?
I can also see it in mono-green stompy where getting an early 2/1 creature can be a quick start, but it requires mana to grow, instead of growing naturally like Pelt Collector or Experiment One. I know some lists run Dryad Militant, which seems like a good upgrade slot.
Wrenn and Six is quite interesting...a 2-drop Walker with two good but not great abilities (and a relatively useless ultimate for us).
I’m going to test 1-2 (as I now play Blast Zone and the Horizon lands and fetch lands...and it never hurts to get a second Nykthos back each turn :). It’s also infinite damage in my combo which is nice. It’s really hard for a 2-drop walker to not be good. Even if all it does is work as a mini-Crucible it may be worth it at 2-cmc. Granted, for me it’s infinite damage within the combo so I am over-valuing it a bit.
It’s not 100% on plan though. Just too hard for me to theory craft...but I feel certain it will be a 1-of in my deck.
Looks like they are working hard for lands to be a thing in Modern. I wonder if Nykthos would make for a good lands deck? Between Courser, all the land enchantments, our walkers that deal with lands, etc. I think there is likely a land Devotion deck now.
Wow...may be win-more...but may just be “win” too :). We have a lot of X options (Finale, Kessig Wolf Run, Ballista,, Wave, Genesis Hydra, etc.) ; but 3-mana “do nothing on its own” cards are extremely hard to make work in Modern unless you build the deck around them...and even then they are a stretch.
But that is a super powerful effect...finale grabbing two creatures, etc. is unreal. It looks like rather than porting in to some Devotion decks; It may just need to be built around for a new deck more focused on x-spells.
I feel like they should have named this set “EDH Horizons” as so many of the cards seem bonkers in EDH but may not quite make the cut in Modern :). This one is close though...that is a very powerful effect.
_____
On a different note.... Pillage is a good reprint that might go in some red sideboards.
What does everyone think? I'm sad because we haven't got that card yet that makes me go "Wow...this is a great new Devotion card..." but I don’t want to sound like they should have developed anything just for us...it just stinks seeing some really interesting design in green (hexdrinker, Unbound flourishing, Wrenn & Six) and we may not be able to utilize them. I want this truly bonkers power-level card to work...I just worry that it may not be fast enough for Modern.
The thing with Unbound Flourishing is that you can get use out of it as soon as it enter because of the second clause. For instance, if you have a creature like Magus of the Candelabra, you can potentially get use out of Flourishing immediately even if they try to kill it. Also, it’s an enchantment so it’s harder to kill. It’s a mana ramp source as well as a combo piece.
I think it has some potential, I’m at least curious how it can be used even if it’s not super competitive.
Hexdrinker is not meant Green Devotion, despite the fact that we can make it big, that’s just a waste of our mana. We have better things to do with lots of mana.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Unbound Flourishing triggers on cast...so it could be an interesting way to play around counter magic (even if they counter the wave you still get the other one). Of course now Flusterstorm exists; but if I’m thinking of the rules correctly (which is always a crapshoot with me
I do love the idea of Magus of the moon as well. Great with Sprawl and other land enchantments and busted with Flourishing. I actually played Magus in a list over a year ago (as it ran both Sprawl and Fertile Ground) but didn’t like that if played on turn 1 and you didn’t have a Sprawl for turn two it did nothing for two turns. It does some crazy stuff with Nykthos though. It felt like the speed sacrifice wasn’t worth the potential. Flourishing may change that.
I was more worried about the turn-2 Flourishing’s doing not much (if anything). Like where you go T1 Bird, T2 Flourishing....but it’s pure power could be worth it. With Magus, Wolf Run, Wave, Finale, Banefire, Bonfire, and a million other options...I could see a deck that does some absolutely bonkers things by turns 4-5 (with the turn 3 god hands every once in a while.
If Wild Growth does get a reprint; Magus of the Candelabradoes become significantly better. If I didn’t already have a few sets; I’d pick one up.
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Eternal Witness
1x Acidic Slime
1x Genesis Hydra
Enchantment/Artifact (9)
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Oath of Nissa
1x Cloudstone Curio
Planeswalker (12)
3x Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Karn, the Great Creator
1x Karn Liberated
4x Genesis Wave
Lands (22)
6x Green Fetch
7x Forest
1x Breeding Pool
3x Waterlogged Grove
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Blast Zone
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Grafdiggers Cage
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Walking Ballista
1x Spellskite
1x Tormods Crypt
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Trinisphere
1x Genesis Hydra
2x Narset, Parter of Veils
2x Primal Command
2x Force of Vigor
* yes I know it is 61 cards. I’ve liked playing one extra and 3 Horizon lands...allows you to avoid BOTH flooding and land screw more consistently.
* Trying out only 2 copies of bird...so far so good. Could play three (but would likely have to cut an Oath).
* not certain Acidic Slime is necessary anymore in the main...but we’ll see.
* Karn has become the main win-con in the deck. Even with Wave it’s awesome as you hit Karn and land/and untap walker and can the. Tutor for Lattice and cast it the same turn. I will always have the Cloudstone Curio Combo available for Walkers; but Karn is simply a better option at this point. He also works within the combo.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
If I'm wrong, I'll eat an orange.
Haha! Love it!
That is good news though.
________
SCG put up some Vs. videos today and one plays “Mono Green Ramp”...No nykthos (plays snow covered lands and scrying sheets)...but plays a full set of Primal Command, a full set of Finale, the Vizier Combo, a set of Karn, and many of our normal toolbox cards.
Personally, i think Karn is a mainstay in Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl decks for the future (including many Devotion decks). It has just been so good in my play experience.
I do like the idea of the Devoted Druid Combo with Finale as well...not entirely certain is put them in the same deck; but the Vizier Combo is really only one extra card if you can make use of Devoted Druid for things like Command on turn 3, etc....it is nice guy Karn can grab Ballista once you have infinite mana though.
I do wonder, however, how Devotion can improve such a deck (I.e. if the Druid/Vizier Combo works well without Devotion, how does devotion make it better?)
We can do Karn better than others because:
(A) we can get to 10 mana by turn 3 (and definitely by turn 4) so even if you don’t play him on turn 2 you can still lock the opponent on turn 3 or 4.
(B) we play Oath of Nissa to dig for him. We can play Ancient Stirrings as well if we wanted to (to also hit lands, Curio...I’ve been tying this out a bit)
(C) we often have excess mana to make use of Kafn’s Tutor ability the turn we play him.
Having said this, is there a reason to not play the Druid combo in a Finale deck? Does Eldamri’s Call change things? Interesting questions for us to figure out.
Both Primal Command and Force of Vigor have been amazing out of the board. I actually really like where command is now.
For us it's a 3 mana deal 3 damage to every creature. It hits our own creatures but I think some level of build around could make this a pretty dope piece of early interaction.
Maybe devotion isn't the best deck for this (maybe a deck with a lot of land tutoring, coursers, etc would be better?)