Sup guys, I've been testing the following list, and I must say Hydroid Krasis is REALLY GOOD...
I’ve been toying around with multiple cards as another big-drop/mana-sink and Krasis is likely just the best option. I remember when I played it that the life gain always worked out to be extremely important (obviously the card draw was huge; but I do remember being surprised how much the life gain mattered in many games ). It was an aggro-heavy meta then, but I can see this still being important. Thanks for pointing the out. I’ll have to give Krasis a try in my current list.
FYI - Hornet Queen does not trigger as you expect with Finale of Devastation. The finale resolves before the ETB trigger resolves, so only the Queen herself gets +10/+10.
Also I would temper your expectations for finale.. I think it's a good glue card, and it might be great in the Infinite Devoted druid devotions of last year...but it's not a game changer... we still need to generate 12 mana to get the benefit of both parts of the card. That is the main issue this deck has already and the card doesn't do anything to ease that.
Neoform is more suited for a turbo Allosaurus Rider deck than typical devotion...we don't currently play Eldritch Evolution so I don't see it having any use here either.
Just wanted to lay down some perspective before people buy into pre-release hype prices haha.
I also have some doubts about Finale, since GGx instead of just Gx like GSZ means it's a lot more expensive.... Double the cost to be precise. BUT! It can fetch nongreen cards, which opens up a lot more possibilities. I would pay less attention to the +10+10 clause. Though it's a nice bonus that can end games sometimes, the real power is being a slightly more expensive GSZ, and unlike GSZ it can be rebought with E-witness.
So now let's compare it to the most similar legal modern card, Chord of Calling. It's actually only 1 less expensive than Chord, and we can't use all our creatures to pay the cost, so in some instances it's not cheaper, plus it's Sorcery speed. The Chord and Druid turn 3 infinite combo has not found its way into Green Devotion very successfully, because there aren't as many immediate wincons as the traditional devoted vizier decks to have a reliable win as soon as the combo is enabled.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
It was Fulgence/Noname. I don't know why the website gave me this name...
To get your old name back let Feyd know on here. It has to do with Eu privacy laws when we changed parent companies. If you have more question on that let me know. If anyone has issues on the site, always feel free to Pm me.
I've been taking my hiatus on devotion but im excited to play some this weekend. I caved and am back to silkies and my new addition of Krasis. I hoped to wait a little longer for Krasis but my testing with 1 copy of it has been amazing.
I think Finale has some decent potential in the lists that are the toolbox version as it offers a recursion option also.
Strange that Jerry gives a shoutout now, since Fulgence hasn’t posted a finish for a while now, but he was playing a ton with that Naya Devotion list in 2018. It’s a good list, I played the list a lot but with my own modifications (improvements), and it’s potentially the best devotion list available. Definitely in the top 3, and I’ve mad A TON of devotion decks.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I think the shoutout had to do with Fulgence’s Standard performance as well...but that is AWESOME!! Fulgence has been a Devotion aficionado for a long time...so happy to have a MTGO ambassador for the archetype we all love.
Hopefully we can all start posting some 5-0’s! I’d have to actually find the time to get on an actually play MTGO but it would be worth it.
So cool and happy for you Fulgence. I’ll post your recent results this evening in the Primer.
I HATE that Goldfish and others never call them Devotion decks (it’s always “Naya Value”, Gruul, WGr, etc.). I’ll write to them again to show them the 5-0’s are for DEVOTION (hello...Nykkthos, BTE, Hoof, etc.).
I don’t know if it is against the rules; but I can give you Gerry’s email if you want to write him directly so you guys can talk. I obviously would never normally do that; but since he is publicly looking for you I think it’s ok. It’s also likely his email is public record somewhere (articles, etc.) I’ve honestly not looked.
I’ll check with the mods and PM you (wasn’t certain if your name changed yet and if so to what it changed...so posting here for your response).
P.S. I wrote him to ensure I got his permission...so it’s not just randomly sending someone else’s info.
It was Fulgence/Noname. I don't know why the website gave me this name...
To get your old name back let Feyd know on here. It has to do with Eu privacy laws when we changed parent companies. If you have more question on that let me know. If anyone has issues on the site, always feel free to Pm me.
I've been taking my hiatus on devotion but im excited to play some this weekend. I caved and am back to silkies and my new addition of Krasis. I hoped to wait a little longer for Krasis but my testing with 1 copy of it has been amazing.
I think Finale has some decent potential in the lists that are the toolbox version as it offers a recursion option also.
You rock! Thanks for your help with Fulgence.
I’m excited to see your results. You have me really wanting to play Krasis again...I’ve only got a few slots left; but it feels right in a Wave list (despite being a Nombo off of a Wave). That really is my biggest concern...but sometimes it’s ok to have a nombo when both cards are great.
Promised end's costs comes down to about 9 on average in most games. (creature, land, planeswalker and/or enchantment), your opponent interacting with you gets that delirium going.
also being creature you can primal command for it. Unlike tooth and nail
if your ramp hits 12 mana, mind slaver and 13/13 trample is just as devastating a final devastation.
I was testing some lists with Finale of Devastation and finally just decided that it was better to get to 9 mana and entwine Tooth and Nail for Emmy/Xenagos than try for 12 with Finale, even in a more traditional style Devotion shell (i.e. not running Overgrowth or Voyaging Satyr). The only pro for running Finale is that you can use it at x=anything, but Summoner's Pact already does that for free at instant speed. You have to really want a non-green finisher to run Finale over Pact, I think.
I also have some doubts about Finale, since GGx instead of just Gx like GSZ means it's a lot more expensive.... Double the cost to be precise. BUT! It can fetch nongreen cards, which opens up a lot more possibilities. I would pay less attention to the +10+10 clause. Though it's a nice bonus that can end games sometimes, the real power is being a slightly more expensive GSZ, and unlike GSZ it can be rebought with E-witness.
So now let's compare it to the most similar legal modern card, Chord of Calling. It's actually only 1 less expensive than Chord, and we can't use all our creatures to pay the cost, so in some instances it's not cheaper, plus it's Sorcery speed. The Chord and Druid turn 3 infinite combo has not found its way into Green Devotion very successfully, because there aren't as many immediate wincons as the traditional devoted vizier decks to have a reliable win as soon as the combo is enabled.
on similar topic, i've been messing around with convoke for 4 chord of calling 4 March of the Multitudes. results have been pretty nice, End of Opponents Turn put some tokens on the field, or chord for ramp creatures, next turn garruk wildspeaker or Nissa, voice of zendikar what ever the situation allows. However I want to drop March of secure the wastes due to mana efficientcy (plus i didn't know it existed when i started this.)
but i find you need the life link from March's soldier tokens again Izzet Pheonix, and sometimes other burn variants. X 1/1 life link tokens cancel out arclight Pheonix or holds back the transformed thing in the ice
Hey thanks for your encouragements. I just noticed Gerry's tweet. He's one of my favorite players. It makes me very happy that you guys share these compliments. I probably would not have concentrated as much on the deck if I had not interacted with you all on this forum. As I said once, people often criticize my card choices (even if I don't really enjoy playing the best decks when I am not having fun) so it feels super encouraging.
Thanks as well to your advices on how to restore my name. I've asked the mod so i hope it will be fixed soon.
About the Krasis, it reminds me about Sphinx's revelation, one of the best standard cards of its time but not focused enough to be that great in modern. Finale of Devastation is probably a better effect that scales, if that's what you are looking for. Genesis wave as well, although the threshold may be higher than Krasis' (6 mana).
I think the most important things about krasis is I can't think of a matchup that you don't want to gain life or draw cards. And it's attatched to the casting of it, not coming into play so it dodges counterspells. And it's tutorable.
Assuming we both believe Krasis for x less than 4 is unplayable, I can see 80 percent of the matchups where you don't need 2 or 3 life and 2 or 3 cards. Same number of the time, i'd better play the card you chose not to play for krasis. 6 mana Krasis does not win, bellower or titan does. 6 mana Krasis does not beat 1 mana Gurmag Angler(assuming the opponent made a few efforts yeah ;). 8 mana Krasis is lucky. Harmonize style cards don't belong to devotion, even attached to a small body. If you want to draw, play midrange or control and have cheap answers. If you want to play around counterspell, play at a pace where they need the perfect hand unless you swarm them or have to respond to threats individually (coco/planeswalkers/primal command). Why lose tempo and play krasis so maybe it's ok in some matchups whereas a good curve is what you want in most matchups?
The only issue with the list I am currently playing is that it differs greatly from what is considered the "normal" Green Devotion list. It is a Wave/Combo list. Here is the list:
There are a few items I’m not sure of and some simply there for meta-considerations. The Polukranos is because 50% of the decks I’ve played against recently have been humans, Affinity, etc. with tiny creatures. It’s fine on it’s own and draws off Kiora; so it doesn’t Hurt much to play it main.
Current items I’m testing/have no idea if they will work:
1. Abundant Growth vs. Oath of Nissa
Oath is a better card; but I am trying out Abundant Growth as many of my payoff cards are artifacts and/or sorceries.
2. Main Deck Assassin’s Trophy
I may be better off just playing more cards that fit better in the game one plan (I have a package of Acidic Slime, Chord, etc.) but I wanted to test straight removal for some time.
3. Krasis in the Board
It’s great against aggro and control; but lends itself better to slower games. It’s one of those, “when it’s good it’s amazing...but not always great” cards that helps in particular matchups
This is more of a “trade” for Genesis Wave in Control.
Krasis is a tough card; because it is only good at the high end...and then you are trading for other 6+ drops. I can’t say it’s “worth” it yet. I wouldn’t advise it necessarily in a “traditional” build (mine plays more of a combo role). Even given this, I can’t say it’s a surefire choice. I do like having something to board in against control though.
4. Only two copies of Birds of Paradise
Since the introduction of the London Mulligan, I've been trying one less mana dork. Don't know if this will be effective or not...but I wanted to see if that was a possibility.
The other cards outside of the above are relatively “standard” stuff for me. I’ll let you know how each idea works.
Assuming we both believe Krasis for x less than 4 is unplayable, I can see 80 percent of the matchups where you don't need 2 or 3 life and 2 or 3 cards. Same number of the time, i'd better play the card you chose not to play for krasis. 6 mana Krasis does not win, bellower or titan does. 6 mana Krasis does not beat 1 mana Gurmag Angler(assuming the opponent made a few efforts yeah ;). 8 mana Krasis is lucky. Harmonize style cards don't belong to devotion, even attached to a small body. If you want to draw, play midrange or control and have cheap answers. If you want to play around counterspell, play at a pace where they need the perfect hand unless you swarm them or have to respond to threats individually (coco/planeswalkers/primal command). Why lose tempo and play krasis so maybe it's ok in some matchups whereas a good curve is what you want in most matchups?
Do you have a current list you’re playing? I know it’s been a little while since you’ve played Devotion (and you have been playing Standard) but was just interested if you picked it back up lately.
I agree with Fulgence on Hydroid Krasis. It's a value card that is good against control, but in the vast majority of matchups it's just a "decent" or "bad" card. In Tooth and Nail lists, it is decent as a 1-2 of, since that deck is actively digging for a combo piece, while generating mana faster than traditional Devotion. In normal devotion though, it is merely a roleplayer. This deck doesn't need any more value, it needs cards that say: "answer this or you're dead", or "I effectively win the game/boardstate".
I think some players will get caught up in the thought of eeking out as much value/mana as possible, and grinding harder that the opponent. The deck is already decent versus midrange, so the only benefit that would give is versus control...which can be reset by a simple sweeper. Sometimes you just gotta get rid of the fluff, and just kill the opponent. I don't think Hydroid Krasis does that to any degree.
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I’ve been toying around with multiple cards as another big-drop/mana-sink and Krasis is likely just the best option. I remember when I played it that the life gain always worked out to be extremely important (obviously the card draw was huge; but I do remember being surprised how much the life gain mattered in many games ). It was an aggro-heavy meta then, but I can see this still being important. Thanks for pointing the out. I’ll have to give Krasis a try in my current list.
Also I would temper your expectations for finale.. I think it's a good glue card, and it might be great in the Infinite Devoted druid devotions of last year...but it's not a game changer... we still need to generate 12 mana to get the benefit of both parts of the card. That is the main issue this deck has already and the card doesn't do anything to ease that.
Neoform is more suited for a turbo Allosaurus Rider deck than typical devotion...we don't currently play Eldritch Evolution so I don't see it having any use here either.
Just wanted to lay down some perspective before people buy into pre-release hype prices haha.
Thanks
So now let's compare it to the most similar legal modern card, Chord of Calling. It's actually only 1 less expensive than Chord, and we can't use all our creatures to pay the cost, so in some instances it's not cheaper, plus it's Sorcery speed. The Chord and Druid turn 3 infinite combo has not found its way into Green Devotion very successfully, because there aren't as many immediate wincons as the traditional devoted vizier decks to have a reliable win as soon as the combo is enabled.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Nice shout-out from Gerry T for you Fulgence.
To get your old name back let Feyd know on here. It has to do with Eu privacy laws when we changed parent companies. If you have more question on that let me know. If anyone has issues on the site, always feel free to Pm me.
I've been taking my hiatus on devotion but im excited to play some this weekend. I caved and am back to silkies and my new addition of Krasis. I hoped to wait a little longer for Krasis but my testing with 1 copy of it has been amazing.
I think Finale has some decent potential in the lists that are the toolbox version as it offers a recursion option also.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Hopefully we can all start posting some 5-0’s! I’d have to actually find the time to get on an actually play MTGO
So cool and happy for you Fulgence. I’ll post your recent results this evening in the Primer.
I HATE that Goldfish and others never call them Devotion decks (it’s always “Naya Value”, Gruul, WGr, etc.). I’ll write to them again to show them the 5-0’s are for DEVOTION (hello...Nykkthos, BTE, Hoof, etc.).
I’ll check with the mods and PM you (wasn’t certain if your name changed yet and if so to what it changed...so posting here for your response).
P.S. I wrote him to ensure I got his permission...so it’s not just randomly sending someone else’s info.
You rock! Thanks for your help with Fulgence.
I’m excited to see your results. You have me really wanting to play Krasis again...I’ve only got a few slots left; but it feels right in a Wave list (despite being a Nombo off of a Wave). That really is my biggest concern...but sometimes it’s ok to have a nombo when both cards are great.
Promised end's costs comes down to about 9 on average in most games. (creature, land, planeswalker and/or enchantment), your opponent interacting with you gets that delirium going.
also being creature you can primal command for it. Unlike tooth and nail
if your ramp hits 12 mana, mind slaver and 13/13 trample is just as devastating a final devastation.
on similar topic, i've been messing around with convoke for 4 chord of calling 4 March of the Multitudes. results have been pretty nice, End of Opponents Turn put some tokens on the field, or chord for ramp creatures, next turn garruk wildspeaker or Nissa, voice of zendikar what ever the situation allows. However I want to drop March of secure the wastes due to mana efficientcy (plus i didn't know it existed when i started this.)
but i find you need the life link from March's soldier tokens again Izzet Pheonix, and sometimes other burn variants. X 1/1 life link tokens cancel out arclight Pheonix or holds back the transformed thing in the ice
Thanks as well to your advices on how to restore my name. I've asked the mod so i hope it will be fixed soon.
About the Krasis, it reminds me about Sphinx's revelation, one of the best standard cards of its time but not focused enough to be that great in modern. Finale of Devastation is probably a better effect that scales, if that's what you are looking for. Genesis wave as well, although the threshold may be higher than Krasis' (6 mana).
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Wistful Selkie
1x Eternal Witness
1x Polukranos, World Eater
Enchantment/Artifact (9)
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Abundant Growth
2x Cloudstone Curio
Planeswalker (9)
3x Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Karn Liberated
4x Genesis Wave
3x Assassin's Trophy
Land (21)
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Breeding Pool
8x Forest
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Spellskite
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Hydroid Krasis
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1x Flex
There are a few items I’m not sure of and some simply there for meta-considerations. The Polukranos is because 50% of the decks I’ve played against recently have been humans, Affinity, etc. with tiny creatures. It’s fine on it’s own and draws off Kiora; so it doesn’t Hurt much to play it main.
Current items I’m testing/have no idea if they will work:
1. Abundant Growth vs. Oath of Nissa
Oath is a better card; but I am trying out Abundant Growth as many of my payoff cards are artifacts and/or sorceries.
2. Main Deck Assassin’s Trophy
I may be better off just playing more cards that fit better in the game one plan (I have a package of Acidic Slime, Chord, etc.) but I wanted to test straight removal for some time.
3. Krasis in the Board
It’s great against aggro and control; but lends itself better to slower games. It’s one of those, “when it’s good it’s amazing...but not always great” cards that helps in particular matchups
This is more of a “trade” for Genesis Wave in Control.
Krasis is a tough card; because it is only good at the high end...and then you are trading for other 6+ drops. I can’t say it’s “worth” it yet. I wouldn’t advise it necessarily in a “traditional” build (mine plays more of a combo role). Even given this, I can’t say it’s a surefire choice. I do like having something to board in against control though.
4. Only two copies of Birds of Paradise
Since the introduction of the London Mulligan, I've been trying one less mana dork. Don't know if this will be effective or not...but I wanted to see if that was a possibility.
The other cards outside of the above are relatively “standard” stuff for me. I’ll let you know how each idea works.
Do you have a current list you’re playing? I know it’s been a little while since you’ve played Devotion (and you have been playing Standard) but was just interested if you picked it back up lately.
I think some players will get caught up in the thought of eeking out as much value/mana as possible, and grinding harder that the opponent. The deck is already decent versus midrange, so the only benefit that would give is versus control...which can be reset by a simple sweeper. Sometimes you just gotta get rid of the fluff, and just kill the opponent. I don't think Hydroid Krasis does that to any degree.