What do we think? One card and mana to get a creature off the top....definite value.
I also had one spoiler Question for those playing Tooth and Nail:
Does Nissa , Who Shakes the World work in Tooth and Nail decks...a 5-drop that turns your 5-mana into 10 (not including untapping them, other Utopia Sprawls, etc.). This seems like a great way to go from 5-mana to 11-mana the next turn...what are your thoughts?
Is the new Kiora just better in Tooth and Nail decks? I do think she has a slot in many devotion decks.
PRIMER UPDATES
P.S. The updated Primer data (on sets over the last year) will be added tonight/tomorrow morning (i.e. pictures of cards like the others, new sideboarding options, etc.)
Kiora is really something of interest. 1 Turn can be very important. Garruk does a 3/3 Beast untap 1 more and uh - the final is great, Kiora, Master of the Depths can dig the library and untap 1xLand AND 1x creature like the Arbor Elf.
But Modern is a fast format, 1 less Mana is big deal. More speed, or more flexibilty. Hard choice for me
Say someone digging the library? +1 Devotion, and as a artifact, there is no summon sickness. In the mid/lategame we can recycle Sprawl or other One Drops we didn't need anymore.
Or: "Oh, hi wilderness reclamation payoff..."
Edit: A bit to slow . And this card is really a strong one.
Kiora is really something of interest. 1 Turn can be very important. Garruk does a 3/3 Beast untap 1 more and uh - the final is great, Kiora, Master of the Depths can dig the library and untap 1xLand AND 1x creature like the Arbor Elf.
But Modern is a fast format, 1 less Mana is big deal. More speed, or more flexibilty. Hard choice for me
Say someone digging the library? +1 Devotion, and as a artifact, there is no summon sickness. In the mid/lategame we can recycle Sprawl or other One Drops we didn't need anymore.
Or: "Oh, hi wilderness reclamation payoff..."
Edit: A bit to slow . And this card is really a strong one.
Totally agree....I think the speed may end up being more important (at least to certain decks)...although I'll end up playing both Kiora and Garruk.
The Arkbow looks sneaky good...it is slow; but being able to turn late 1-drops or excess lands into creatures is a big deal (not to mention the fun decks you can build with crazy 5-color creatures, etc. for the fun). I'm sure there will be decks that play it to get creatures on the battlefield with negative cast triggers...but I'm looking at it just in terms of our deck. It reminds me a lot of Fauna Shaman in play pattern...but like you said it (a) doesn't have to concern itself with summoning sickness, (b) can't be bolted, but (c) is much more mana-intensive and (d) doesn't tutor (just digs for potential creatures in the top X).
I am surprised how good the green cards have been thus far (I see use for Domri, Kiora, and Vivien's Arkbow) when compared to other colors (although Gideon, Chandra, and Ral seem good too). All this before Modern Horizons!
_________
P.S. I know I am a little higher on Kiora than most...but for many on here that are somewhat new...I've tried to push a Walker Combo and Walker-Based Devotion decks for years...and this one just happens to fit in the combo one very well. I know there are other cards that are good. I want to keep the discussions going for all cards (Domri, Vivien, Vivien's Arkbow, Nissa, etc.). I do apologize if I get a little excited. I just love spoilers...and I love Walkers...so this set is a little much for me More than anything I love seeing other players/brewers decks on here...so please keep em coming!
The comparison with Fauna Shaman is a good one. Toolboxing isn't possible with the Arcbow. My first thoughts was a bit more like a repeatable Collected Company - more mana intensiv, but without the CMC3 restriction.
Kiora just doing a fine Job to untap Nykthos or enchanted Lands, but with her i would playing enough cards to draw cards or generate enough value.
The new Nissa is a good T&N card imo, but she didn't solve the problems. Imho, the ramp was never the problem, it needed the Namesake cards and disruption resilence to improve this deck.
There is a LOT of chatter about the new Karn (mainly about Tron and Whir Prison); but I thought I’d discuss it here as well.
The new Karn is its own 2-card combo with Myoscynth Lattice. It requires 10 mana in one turn or 4-then-6; but shuts off the opponents lands for the rest of the game.
It also can grab an assortment of hate from the sideboard. I considered running one in the Walker Combo deck just because it can also grab a Cloudstone Curio from the board (so you don’t have to dedicate a slot to it) and Oath of Nissa can hit it...but in that case why not just play Lattice?
Anywho, thought it was worth the discuss as it (a) has an ability that turns off a lot of stuff and hurts Whir Prison, Trom, Affinity, Anvil, etc, while (b) giving us a “toolbox” for trinisphere, engineered explosives, Tormod a crypt, etc., while also (c) giving us a 2-card Combo we can cast by turn 4.
I hate to use something that the first ability isn’t great for us...but it may be a useful tool in some decks. We likely are not the best Karn/Lattice deck...but thought it was worth discussing as it was getting love in Tron.
I will be testing Kiora tonight; so I’ll let you know how it goes.
Having Kiora and Garruk can lead to some nutty turns (and allows you to get a lot on board quickly). I’m working now with different builds to see what way best incorporates it; but it seems like it just gives us a little more speed then we had before which is great!
I'd like to see a deck including the new Kiora as soon as you get one CurdBros. It's got me real excited
I really like Domri and Vivien for creatures builds too, will try them !
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French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
I'm liking Vivien in combination with Wilderness Reclamation. New Nissa seems interesting in a T&N shell as well...but her loyalty abilities are a little questionable. Double mana is always appreciated though.
I'd like to see a deck including the new Kiora as soon as you get one CurdBros. It's got me real excited
I really like Domri and Vivien for creatures builds too, will try them !
I totally agree on Domri and Vivien. Domri to me seems blatantly powerful (as having the uncountable clause on ramp, being removal in a pinch, and being a pseudo-anthem seems crazy at 3-CMC).
Vivien seems more build-around; but flash is stronger than it seems on paper and again, 3-CMC...I’m excited to see how these both play.
________
In terms of the combo build; I worry that Karn/Lattice is just superior to the Curio Combo. I know Curio does loops with other cards...but once we hit 10-mana Karn kinda just wins the game. With the ability to “hit” off both Oath of Nissa (and Ancient Stirrings if we went there); I worry we could become the go-to combo. It’s not a bad thing...I just love Curio
But an Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl on turn 2 leads to turn 2 Karn. Turn three (even with just a land drop) hits 6-mana which means we have a turn 3 combo. That’s not including the late games where just hitting Karn ends the game on the spot if we have 10 mana...granted they can kill Karn (and they still have their board even if they can’t tap their lands)....but it seems well worth it for what is essentially a 1-card Combo.
I’ll let you know how it goes :). I don’t want to get too far down the rabbit hole on new cards...but what is essentially a 1-card combo for “big mana” decks may be something we have to at least test. I know they are already saying it’s going into Tron and whir-prison....but it may be something we want to use too (as we take advantage of Oath of Nissa).
Let me know your thoughts.
I still have a TON of testing to do...and Kiora may (or possibly Nissa) may work so well in Tooth and Nail that it becomes the go-to Devotion deck. That’s the fun of spoilers! So much to test...and if we are really lucky something will work!
Good Work with the Sideboard. That is a real nice Artifact Toolbox.
You got your Combo, but the most important Piece had only 2 Copys. +2 Karn, or at least 3 at minimum. With the white Splash an additional option is Glittering Wish.
Imho an Auto-Addin with W in Devotion is Knight of the Reliquary. Cheating in a Nykthos or a second one to get more Mana is really "finish the Game"
Did i make mistake at reading? With Karn's +1 you can oppponents Land Bomb every round (P/T will be 0) or +1 on himfelf did him to a 4/4. That's too absurd good.
Yeah...but with Lattice in play the lands can’t be tapped anyway (due to his static ability) so they are essentially useless.
You are right that I should play 3 copies (possibly 4). Fixed it in the list above. I just figured with so much draw/dig I would get to him...but given the potential speed of the combo it is likely fine or even preferable to have in the opening hand.
Trom players have been trying it out and state that they end up using the “toolbox” as much as the combo. I will have to make sure this isn’t just better in Tron...but we have the advantage of turn-3 that they don’t.
I’m gonna test heavily over the weekend. I want to try out both the Karn list and the Curio list to see which is preferable.
I’d love to see other lists as well. Before spoilers I was focusing on a “top of the deck” list with Courser, Mul-day a Channelerz, Nissa (UG), and Coiling Oracle. It was a blast and came from an idea a member on here presented....the more we post the more we see.
_____
P.S. new Primer data will be up tomorrow that was mentioned before along with a link to Corbin H’s recent Devotion video.
I’m sure there are many more (and likely in other colors); but I just wanted to get the idea out there to see if anyone had any ideas/lists etc.
Of course you can always also use x-creatures and 4-drops like Chameleon Colossus, Wolfbriar Elemental, Polukranos, etc...I was just thinking of those creatures with 4+ power with CMC of 2-3.
Not a big fan of the Karn inclusion. It seems powerful and out of flavor at the same time ^^
Also it is an expensive Wish in a sense. I've tried playing Glittering Wish in the past in other decks and wasn't satisfied.
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French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
My struggle with Glittering Wish in the past was the color restriction (you had to play 3-4 colors to get the full potential). I too have not had a ton of success with it.
Karn is really just a (a) powerful finisher option and (b) a potentially interactive tool. It is just another option for the deck. I can’t say it’s better or worse than any other options yet. I do agree, however, that it “feels” odd (you are right about the flavor). It will take far more testing for me to have a true grasp on the combo’s Potential in Devotion (it is a “big mana” combo so we should try it out); but i do agree it’s not as fun as Pacting for Hornet Queen
Having said that, when cards are spoiled; it more likely than not that they won’t make the cut. The fun part is the exploration and the discussion. I’m the end; the only proven list thus far is Anthony S.’s Pact list (and a Tooth and Nail list from a while back). I think we all know, however, that something else is out there that will break Green Devotion...it’s just so darn powerful
I’m sure there are many more (and likely in other colors); but I just wanted to get the idea out there to see if anyone had any ideas/lists etc.
Of course you can always also use x-creatures and 4-drops like Chameleon Colossus, Wolfbriar Elemental, Polukranos, etc...I was just thinking of those creatures with 4+ power with CMC of 2-3.
i think the problem with what you are going for makes the deck unfocused. Kiora should be used as a ramp spell with an upside. I think playing tutors with the big fatties is a bette solution than try to get some extra value from
Kiora. It just dilutes the deck. My 2 cents
Great points! That is one of the tougher points of Devotion...
1. If we build the deck as a pure, focused, ramp deck we are easy to disrupt and about 1/2 - 1 turn too slow (see Ross Merriam’s comments as he says it perfectly...)
2. Nearly all other ideas make really good hands win quickly but also fracture the focus of the deck.
Kiora may help by simply giving a Potential half turn bump to already existing decks.
Having said this; while spoiler season is always a blast...tried and true Devotion lists still perform well. Here is a very recent video of Anthony’s list:
Between this and Tooth and Nail; I’m going to steer the focus of h Primer in those directions (just for newer players to see what has performed well).
_______
The above doesn’t mean brews won’t be highlighted and discussed at length. We have a GREAT community here; so the more ideas the merrier!
Ok...so it looks like I should probably stick to my Walker builds :). I will of course always present ideas that I think may spark conversation or may be useful to Devotion players; but in terms of lists I will likely just present those decks performing well and my Walker builds that I have far more experience with.
Haha! I say that and then They print a creature with ETB proliferate at 2-CMC and a crazy landfall proliferate at 3-cmc! Both potential in the Curio build..but Evolution Druid has potential all by itself with Genesis Wave...
Even just allowing for Garruk to overrun the turn he comes down is likely enough (for that build in particular). Without a "combo" in the deck; just having (a) Garruk Wildspeaker, (b) Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, (c ) Walking Ballista, (d) Tireless Tracker (e) any other walker, etc. makes them worth it. The overrun and pump effects alone with just our "base" walkers of Garruk and Nissa may be enough for inclusion.
I don’t know whether Evolution Druid or Pollenbright Druid is better in the deck...but I have a feeling in Curio build that Pollenbright May be better; but a stand-alone build with just Planeswalkers, Genesis Wave, and Evolution Druids May be just as good if not better. something liks:
With Evolution Druid and Genesis Wave...you may not need The Curio Combo (just walkers to ultimate). It’s all just a guess until I test enough.
_____
UPDATE
Testing notes thus far:
1. Genesis Wave is REALLY good
2. I forgot that 2 copies of Garruk (or two copies of Kiora) and Eternal Witness can be an infinite combo with Curio as well...found that out in game two vs. Phoenix.
3. Kiora untaps any permanent; so you don’t have to worry about tapping creatures that may later be pumped to attack (as she can untapped them all during the combo).
4. With the combo deck, I may be just as well off playing Karn’s Bastion and a 1-of Sakura-Tribe Scout than a Pollenbright Druid....it’s gettinf into the weeds a little (I’ll make a little mini-Primer for the Combo Walker deck later) but Scout can be good early and may have more use to the overall deck while Karn’s Bastion has the same functionality once you have the combo as Pollenbright (as you have infinite mana and infinite untaps).
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I could totally see a deck with Evolution Sage, Garruk, Nissa VF, and Genesis Wave being incredible. It may be time to start brewing Wave decks again.
With Rhythm of the Wild, Sarkhan Vol, or even the new Samut (any haste enabler) or even just playing Strangleroot Geist...being able to overrun Garruk immediately changes everything.
I believe there will be at least one new Modern Superfriends deck popping up...and i think we (Green Devotion) can be the best option
What can they print that would help push the Pact deck to Tier-1? Or any Devotion deck for that matter...
In honesty, it’s really kinda already there (with the correct Pact targets and board I honestly believe it can win a Modern Tournament)...but is there anything in particular you have said, “man...if they just print X...”...like I always say “I was they would m print a GG Elvish Visionary..”
Obviously we ALL are hoping for Wild Growth in Modern Horizons...but what else could they print to help us?
What can they print that would help push the Pact deck to Tier-1? Or any Devotion deck for that matter...
In honesty, it’s really kinda already there (with the correct Pact targets and board I honestly believe it can win a Modern Tournament)...but is there anything in particular you have said, “man...if they just print X...”...like I always say “I was they would m print a GG Elvish Visionary..”
Obviously we ALL are hoping for Wild Growth in Modern Horizons...but what else could they print to help us?
Wild Growth is probably the most likely contender to be reprinted, but there are a slew of other options that would greatly benefit us. Natural Order immediately comes to mind, being a cheap way of just getting what we need directly on the battlefield (Progenitus builds?).
Ahn-Crop Rotator GG
Creature - Elf Druid
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice a land. If you do, search your library for a land card and put it into play tapped.
1/1
We are basically looking for ways to: 1) Increase devotion while still getting value 2) Find our payoff cards more reliably to cast them as soon as possible.
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What do we think? One card and mana to get a creature off the top....definite value.
I also had one spoiler Question for those playing Tooth and Nail:
Does Nissa , Who Shakes the World work in Tooth and Nail decks...a 5-drop that turns your 5-mana into 10 (not including untapping them, other Utopia Sprawls, etc.). This seems like a great way to go from 5-mana to 11-mana the next turn...what are your thoughts?
Is the new Kiora just better in Tooth and Nail decks? I do think she has a slot in many devotion decks.
PRIMER UPDATES
P.S. The updated Primer data (on sets over the last year) will be added tonight/tomorrow morning (i.e. pictures of cards like the others, new sideboarding options, etc.)
I removed the "turbo fog" portion as
But Modern is a fast format, 1 less Mana is big deal. More speed, or more flexibilty. Hard choice for me
Say someone digging the library? +1 Devotion, and as a artifact, there is no summon sickness. In the mid/lategame we can recycle Sprawl or other One Drops we didn't need anymore.
Or: "Oh, hi wilderness reclamation payoff..."
Edit: A bit to slow . And this card is really a strong one.
Totally agree....I think the speed may end up being more important (at least to certain decks)...although I'll end up playing both Kiora and Garruk.
The Arkbow looks sneaky good...it is slow; but being able to turn late 1-drops or excess lands into creatures is a big deal (not to mention the fun decks you can build with crazy 5-color creatures, etc. for the fun). I'm sure there will be decks that play it to get creatures on the battlefield with negative cast triggers...but I'm looking at it just in terms of our deck. It reminds me a lot of Fauna Shaman in play pattern...but like you said it (a) doesn't have to concern itself with summoning sickness, (b) can't be bolted, but (c) is much more mana-intensive and (d) doesn't tutor (just digs for potential creatures in the top X).
I am surprised how good the green cards have been thus far (I see use for Domri, Kiora, and Vivien's Arkbow) when compared to other colors (although Gideon, Chandra, and Ral seem good too). All this before Modern Horizons!
_________
P.S. I know I am a little higher on Kiora than most...but for many on here that are somewhat new...I've tried to push a Walker Combo and Walker-Based Devotion decks for years...and this one just happens to fit in the combo one very well. I know there are other cards that are good. I want to keep the discussions going for all cards (Domri, Vivien, Vivien's Arkbow, Nissa, etc.). I do apologize if I get a little excited. I just love spoilers...and I love Walkers...so this set is a little much for me
Kiora just doing a fine Job to untap Nykthos or enchanted Lands, but with her i would playing enough cards to draw cards or generate enough value.
The new Nissa is a good T&N card imo, but she didn't solve the problems. Imho, the ramp was never the problem, it needed the Namesake cards and disruption resilence to improve this deck.
Vivien, Champion of the Wilds itself is strong and bonkers with Wilderness Reclamation in a creature deck full of X in the CMC
There is a LOT of chatter about the new Karn (mainly about Tron and Whir Prison); but I thought I’d discuss it here as well.
The new Karn is its own 2-card combo with Myoscynth Lattice. It requires 10 mana in one turn or 4-then-6; but shuts off the opponents lands for the rest of the game.
It also can grab an assortment of hate from the sideboard. I considered running one in the Walker Combo deck just because it can also grab a Cloudstone Curio from the board (so you don’t have to dedicate a slot to it) and Oath of Nissa can hit it...but in that case why not just play Lattice?
Anywho, thought it was worth the discuss as it (a) has an ability that turns off a lot of stuff and hurts Whir Prison, Trom, Affinity, Anvil, etc, while (b) giving us a “toolbox” for trinisphere, engineered explosives, Tormod a crypt, etc., while also (c) giving us a 2-card Combo we can cast by turn 4.
I hate to use something that the first ability isn’t great for us...but it may be a useful tool in some decks. We likely are not the best Karn/Lattice deck...but thought it was worth discussing as it was getting love in Tron.
I will be testing Kiora tonight; so I’ll let you know how it goes.
I really like Domri and Vivien for creatures builds too, will try them !
Modern :
Legacy :
I totally agree on Domri and Vivien. Domri to me seems blatantly powerful (as having the uncountable clause on ramp, being removal in a pinch, and being a pseudo-anthem seems crazy at 3-CMC).
Vivien seems more build-around; but flash is stronger than it seems on paper and again, 3-CMC...I’m excited to see how these both play.
________
In terms of the combo build; I worry that Karn/Lattice is just superior to the Curio Combo. I know Curio does loops with other cards...but once we hit 10-mana Karn kinda just wins the game. With the ability to “hit” off both Oath of Nissa (and Ancient Stirrings if we went there); I worry we could become the go-to combo. It’s not a bad thing...I just love Curio
But an Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl on turn 2 leads to turn 2 Karn. Turn three (even with just a land drop) hits 6-mana which means we have a turn 3 combo. That’s not including the late games where just hitting Karn ends the game on the spot if we have 10 mana...granted they can kill Karn (and they still have their board even if they can’t tap their lands)....but it seems well worth it for what is essentially a 1-card Combo.
Here is the list I’m testing tonight:
4x Arbor Elf
3x Bird of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Wistful Selkie
2x Acidic Slime
2x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Walking Balista
ENCHANTMENT
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Karn, the Great Creator
LAND
7x Green Fetch Land
6x Forest
1x Temple Garden
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Karn’s Bastion
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Myoscynth Lattice
2x Spellskite
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Grafdiggers Cage
1x Trinisphere
1x Tormonds Crypt
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Damping Sphere
1x Walking Balista
1x Wurmcoil Engine
2x Knight of Autum
2x Path to Exile
I’ll let you know how it goes :). I don’t want to get too far down the rabbit hole on new cards...but what is essentially a 1-card combo for “big mana” decks may be something we have to at least test. I know they are already saying it’s going into Tron and whir-prison....but it may be something we want to use too (as we take advantage of Oath of Nissa).
Let me know your thoughts.
I still have a TON of testing to do...and Kiora may (or possibly Nissa) may work so well in Tooth and Nail that it becomes the go-to Devotion deck. That’s the fun of spoilers! So much to test...and if we are really lucky something will work!
You got your Combo, but the most important Piece had only 2 Copys. +2 Karn, or at least 3 at minimum. With the white Splash an additional option is Glittering Wish.
Imho an Auto-Addin with W in Devotion is Knight of the Reliquary. Cheating in a Nykthos or a second one to get more Mana is really "finish the Game"
Did i make mistake at reading? With Karn's +1 you can oppponents Land Bomb every round (P/T will be 0) or +1 on himfelf did him to a 4/4. That's too absurd good.
You are right that I should play 3 copies (possibly 4). Fixed it in the list above. I just figured with so much draw/dig I would get to him...but given the potential speed of the combo it is likely fine or even preferable to have in the opening hand.
Trom players have been trying it out and state that they end up using the “toolbox” as much as the combo. I will have to make sure this isn’t just better in Tron...but we have the advantage of turn-3 that they don’t.
_______
Updated List:
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Wistful Selkie
2x Acidic Slime
2x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Walking Ballista
ENCHANTMENT
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Karn, the Great Creator
LAND
7x Green Fetch Land
6x Forest
1x Temple Garden
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Karn’s Bastion
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Mycosynth Lattice
2x Spellskite
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Trinisphere
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Silent Arbiter
1x Damping Sphere
1x Walking Ballista
1x Wurmcoil Engine
2x Knight of Autumn
2x Path to Exile
I’m gonna test heavily over the weekend. I want to try out both the Karn list and the Curio list to see which is preferable.
I’d love to see other lists as well. Before spoilers I was focusing on a “top of the deck” list with Courser, Mul-day a Channelerz, Nissa (UG), and Coiling Oracle. It was a blast and came from an idea a member on here presented....the more we post the more we see.
_____
P.S. new Primer data will be up tomorrow that was mentioned before along with a link to Corbin H’s recent Devotion video.
I’m order to fully take advantage of Kiora; it would be great to play low-CMC creatures with 4-power. Here are some examples:
1. Steel Leaf Champion
2. Leatherback Baloth
3. Talara’s Battalion
4. Rhonas, the Indomitable
5. Wayward Swordtooth
6. Loxodon Smiter
7. Prowling Serpopod
8. Boon Satyr
I’m sure there are many more (and likely in other colors); but I just wanted to get the idea out there to see if anyone had any ideas/lists etc.
Of course you can always also use x-creatures and 4-drops like Chameleon Colossus, Wolfbriar Elemental, Polukranos, etc...I was just thinking of those creatures with 4+ power with CMC of 2-3.
Also it is an expensive Wish in a sense. I've tried playing Glittering Wish in the past in other decks and wasn't satisfied.
Modern :
Legacy :
Karn is really just a (a) powerful finisher option and (b) a potentially interactive tool. It is just another option for the deck. I can’t say it’s better or worse than any other options yet. I do agree, however, that it “feels” odd (you are right about the flavor). It will take far more testing for me to have a true grasp on the combo’s Potential in Devotion (it is a “big mana” combo so we should try it out); but i do agree it’s not as fun as Pacting for Hornet Queen
Having said that, when cards are spoiled; it more likely than not that they won’t make the cut. The fun part is the exploration and the discussion. I’m the end; the only proven list thus far is Anthony S.’s Pact list (and a Tooth and Nail list from a while back). I think we all know, however, that something else is out there that will break Green Devotion...it’s just so darn powerful
Kiora. It just dilutes the deck. My 2 cents
1. If we build the deck as a pure, focused, ramp deck we are easy to disrupt and about 1/2 - 1 turn too slow (see Ross Merriam’s comments as he says it perfectly...)
2. Nearly all other ideas make really good hands win quickly but also fracture the focus of the deck.
Kiora may help by simply giving a Potential half turn bump to already existing decks.
Having said this; while spoiler season is always a blast...tried and true Devotion lists still perform well. Here is a very recent video of Anthony’s list:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8hBR7Y2Sx8
Between this and Tooth and Nail; I’m going to steer the focus of h Primer in those directions (just for newer players to see what has performed well).
_______
The above doesn’t mean brews won’t be highlighted and discussed at length. We have a GREAT community here; so the more ideas the merrier!
Ok...so it looks like I should probably stick to my Walker builds :). I will of course always present ideas that I think may spark conversation or may be useful to Devotion players; but in terms of lists I will likely just present those decks performing well and my Walker builds that I have far more experience with.
Pollenbright Druid
Evolution Sage
Even just allowing for Garruk to overrun the turn he comes down is likely enough (for that build in particular). Without a "combo" in the deck; just having (a) Garruk Wildspeaker, (b) Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, (c ) Walking Ballista, (d) Tireless Tracker (e) any other walker, etc. makes them worth it. The overrun and pump effects alone with just our "base" walkers of Garruk and Nissa may be enough for inclusion.
Now I just have to think of what to cut
Here is my starting point:
Combo Walker Devotion
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
1x Sakura-Tribe Scout
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Wistful Selkie
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Eternal Witness
ENCHANTMENT
3x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
OTHER
4x Genesis Wave
2x Cloudstone Curio
3x Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
1x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Karn Liberated
LAND
8x Green Fetch Land
7x Forest
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Karn’s Bastion
3x Assassin’s Trophy
2x Spellskite
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Walking Ballista
2x Genesis Hydra
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Acidic Slime
Evolution Superfriends Devotion
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Evolution Sage
1x Tireless Tracker
2x Courser of Kruphix
1x Walking Ballista
ENCHANTMENT
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
OTHER
4x Genesis Wave
3x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Vraksa, Relic Seeker
1x Crazy Ultimate Walker
LAND
8x Green Fetch Land
7x Forest
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Karn’s Bastion
3x Assassin’s Trophy
2x Spellskite
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Trinisphere
2x Genesis Hydra
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Flex
With Evolution Druid and Genesis Wave...you may not need The Curio Combo (just walkers to ultimate). It’s all just a guess until I test enough.
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UPDATE
Testing notes thus far:
1. Genesis Wave is REALLY good
2. I forgot that 2 copies of Garruk (or two copies of Kiora) and Eternal Witness can be an infinite combo with Curio as well...found that out in game two vs. Phoenix.
3. Kiora untaps any permanent; so you don’t have to worry about tapping creatures that may later be pumped to attack (as she can untapped them all during the combo).
4. With the combo deck, I may be just as well off playing Karn’s Bastion and a 1-of Sakura-Tribe Scout than a Pollenbright Druid....it’s gettinf into the weeds a little (I’ll make a little mini-Primer for the Combo Walker deck later) but Scout can be good early and may have more use to the overall deck while Karn’s Bastion has the same functionality once you have the combo as Pollenbright (as you have infinite mana and infinite untaps).
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I could totally see a deck with Evolution Sage, Garruk, Nissa VF, and Genesis Wave being incredible. It may be time to start brewing Wave decks again.
With Rhythm of the Wild, Sarkhan Vol, or even the new Samut (any haste enabler) or even just playing Strangleroot Geist...being able to overrun Garruk immediately changes everything.
I believe there will be at least one new Modern Superfriends deck popping up...and i think we (Green Devotion) can be the best option
What can they print that would help push the Pact deck to Tier-1? Or any Devotion deck for that matter...
In honesty, it’s really kinda already there (with the correct Pact targets and board I honestly believe it can win a Modern Tournament)...but is there anything in particular you have said, “man...if they just print X...”...like I always say “I was they would m print a GG Elvish Visionary..”
Obviously we ALL are hoping for Wild Growth in Modern Horizons...but what else could they print to help us?
https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/tooth-and-nail-decklist-by-suke-788991
And another last week:
https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/tooth-and-nail-decklist-by-kenzothehardhearted-787722
Hydroid Krasis was certainly powerful when I played it and is GREAT against any Aggro build. Looks like it is a serious option for us.
Wild Growth is probably the most likely contender to be reprinted, but there are a slew of other options that would greatly benefit us.
Natural Order immediately comes to mind, being a cheap way of just getting what we need directly on the battlefield (Progenitus builds?).
As for new card ideas, maybe a new devotion-helping Crop Rotation to help us find Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx faster. Something like:
Ahn-Crop Rotator GG
Creature - Elf Druid
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice a land. If you do, search your library for a land card and put it into play tapped.
1/1
We are basically looking for ways to: 1) Increase devotion while still getting value 2) Find our payoff cards more reliably to cast them as soon as possible.