little gun shy on the Hydroid Krasis due to its current cost but it seems so good that it be worth dusting off the Rosheen Meanderer decks.
was moderns popularity for fatal pushsomething that keeps roshen meanderer X/X decks from being effective?
Krasis has been actually quite good. I initially assumed it was too slow; but so far that has not been the case. The life-gain has been way more important than I initially anticipated. I will post more if the list is viable after 100+ games.
I did luck out because I pre-ordered a set when they were only $7 or $8 on SCG (that’s what they started them at). I didn’t have any “foresight” or anything like that (I’d love to take credit for it...but no...) I just tend to buy sets of anything that is mythic or rare that:
1. Allows for cost reduction
2. Is a man-sink/X-spell
3. Plays something for free (like Electrodominance & Phoenix)
4. If the power level is Modern playable (I.e. Trophy, etc.)
Sometimes you get lucky like here...sometimes you get burned (I paid a lot for As Foretold )
In terms of the lists; we are just kinda in a lull in the format. When the format was essentially everyone racing everyone; the Pact/BTE list was the best by far (and still is based on results). There is just SOOOO much you can do with the base of Sprawl, Arbor Elf, Garruk, Nykthos that it leads to us always asking “exactly how can I break things with the mana and exploit the current meta?”
There is not a “set” list; but as long as Green Devotion is a big mana deck...the main choices for each builder are what they are going to do in turns 3, 4, and 5 (and beyond with interaction). We can go over the top of every deck in the format...so really we just have to have a 75 that can lead our opponents where we want them to go.
The constraints are the toughest part of brewing Devotion. Green in general and Garruk Wildspeaker in practice both concern themselves with creatures...and Devotion wants green permanents; so each brew requires a balance other decks don’t have to worry about.
I'm back. Had to go to Florida (as our Grandfather was hospitalized) for a few days. I am here now and will work having the primer be public. It is done; so it shouldn't take but 1-2 fixes to make public and under the page.
hey Curd Let me know if you having more issues on getting the primer posted. I can edit your posts so i can always take a look and fix errors as needed.
I have a feeling the errors have to deal with the apostrophes used.
lol Curd, I feel like you've been saying you're going to post a new Primer for 2 years.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I haven't been brewed with genesis hydra in quite sometimes. But i remember you had some good lists with it.
-------------------------------
On another note,
this is the last list I had before I put the game down for a little while, It was centered around landing either Primeval titan or landing rune-scarred demon then using there tutor abilities to get the pump lands for winning the game in the next turn. In demons case on could tool box spells some what, despite being 7 mana for a demonic tutor often I have enough extra mana for casting push or trophy in the same turn.
I haven't been brewed with genesis hydra in quite sometimes. But i remember you had some good lists with it.
a good List with Genesis Hydra ? My strongest build with the Genesis Hydra was brew around Freed from the Real. This Hydra can dig AND cast in the same time aura's and artifacts or any other nonland card. This is a very rare ability for green.
This Hydra had 1 Problem. Cast it with only 4 Mana, we can dig only 2 cards deep, cast it with 10 Mana, we get at least a big creature (without trample!) and get only 1 card. Ok, this one founded card can be a GameChanger/Win-Condition or to be whatever a good card. In my Eyes is the Hydra more a Support and Tool creature and not a threat.
Hydroid Krasis is the better card imo. The cast trigger is gold against control, because even with a counter this creature self-replaced itself. It can be a card advantage against other Midrange decks, against aggro even a 2/2 , 1 Life + 1 Card is not that bad in the early turns. The modes are not all that thrilling, but all together did that creature in nearly every stage a good Job.
The other part as a ramp deck. We need (mostly) no free cast effects, we almost have the mana to cast all the cards in our hand. In most cases we run out of Gas. I will using the Hydroid Krasis to finsih the Game the next 1-2 turns as a big threat with double evasion and at best with counter or protection with my extra draws.
At first sight both creature are similar, but at second look, both are very different.
Current Modern Meta (http://mtgtop8.com) Aggro:
Red Deck Wins 11%
UR Aggro 9 %
Death's Shadow 7 % Control:
UrzaTron 5 % Combo:
Dredge 6 %
The Big five, are 38% of the Meta.
LifeGain and Removal are both good against Aggro. But i didn't see anything against Tron or Dredge - at least hard to tell what are you will be doing without a Sideboard
Looks pretty slick. I know somebody tried out Hope Tender a while ago in T&N and eventually came to the conclusion that it was meh. Sometimes that extra clunk of using one mana can gum things up. I would keep an eye out for this in your testing...it might just be better as another satyr.
Also, I dig Dromoka. Very good versus burn/lightning bolt decks. I do think your list is missing a sweeper of some sort in the main. Dragonlord Atarka or Walking Ballista are very good and oftentimes worthwhile preboard. If your meta is very combo or control heavy though, I can see relegating them to the side like you have.
Looks pretty slick. I know somebody tried out Hope Tender a while ago in T&N and eventually came to the conclusion that it was meh. Sometimes that extra clunk of using one mana can gum things up. I would keep an eye out for this in your testing...it might just be better as another satyr.
Also, I dig Dromoka. Very good versus burn/lightning bolt decks. I do think your list is missing a sweeper of some sort in the main. Dragonlord Atarka or Walking Ballista are very good and oftentimes worthwhile preboard. If your meta is very combo or control heavy though, I can see relegating them to the side like you have.
The decks im most likely to face are Grixis Death Shadow, affinity, burn, storm, and dredge,
This primer is never going up, is it lol. I remember reading back since late 2017/early 2018 that it's gonna go up. Fast forward and two months of 2019 have passed
A few additional lists...will be in primer (approximately one hour).
Had to stay in Florida for a few weeks (as grandfather went to hospidal); but I have already begun posting what I can (just doing it in peices so I can see where the issue lies...just copy pasting section by section).
Will write again in 30 minutes to let you know what sections are up.
P.S. Removed all but the most "stock lists" for now (and we can add as we go when we feel a lists warrants it).
I've been having fun with a version of your Titan Domri Riot Deck. Only played casual with the deck so far, tho against good decks (burn, death shadow and elves), but I'm taking it to FNM when I get some ordered cards.
I saw in the primer Alexanders alternative Tooth N' Nail-deck with Lotus Cobra and Knight of the Reliquary, not sure it was there before the update but it piqued my interest. Does anyone have any experience with the deck, does it run well compared to the more traditional list? And does anyone have any thoughts on updates to the deck since it's from 2015? It seems to be lacking in the removal section, not even running enchantment- or artifact-hate. It seems a bit slower but more resilient against opponent screwing up our ramp and with the knight fetching utility lands when needed.
I started playing ramp with Tooth N' Nail, but after consistently getting my ramp screwed by my opponents, and I started lurking in this thread, I went over to playing Craterhoof Behemoth devotion, but I guess I miss swinging with Emrakul
Finally the primer's up! Good work Curdbros! I've one suggestion for the Support Card explanation section. You've got a slot listed for Leatherback Baloth, but no mention of Steel-Leaf Champion, which can be included in that same section and provides a similar role. Having the option to swing thru chump blockers if you don't have a Kessig online is valuable and worth a mention along with the Leatherback Baloth blurb.
Finally the primer's up! Good work Curdbros! I've one suggestion for the Support Card explanation section. You've got a slot listed for Leatherback Baloth, but no mention of Steel-Leaf Champion, which can be included in that same section and provides a similar role. Having the option to swing thru chump blockers if you don't have a Kessig online is valuable and worth a mention along with the Leatherback Baloth blurb.
There is still a LOT more to copy/paste (but it’s going up now)...but I’m excited to have everyone see what I can see on my end! I’ll post shortly today when the other sections are up.
I've been having fun with a version of your Titan Domri Riot Deck. Only played casual with the deck so far, tho against good decks (burn, death shadow and elves), but I'm taking it to FNM when I get some ordered cards.
I saw in the primer Alexanders alternative Tooth N' Nail-deck with Lotus Cobra and Knight of the Reliquary, not sure it was there before the update but it piqued my interest. Does anyone have any experience with the deck, does it run well compared to the more traditional list? And does anyone have any thoughts on updates to the deck since it's from 2015? It seems to be lacking in the removal section, not even running enchantment- or artifact-hate. It seems a bit slower but more resilient against opponent screwing up our ramp and with the knight fetching utility lands when needed.
I started playing ramp with Tooth N' Nail, but after consistently getting my ramp screwed by my opponents, and I started lurking in this thread, I went over to playing Craterhoof Behemoth devotion, but I guess I miss swinging with Emrakul
That’s always been the toughest problem with playing a more straight-forward “ramp” list....the opponent only has to attack half of the deck (leaving you with either a ton of mana and no big cards or a few big cards and no way to cast them.). That’s generally why I tend to play more card-draw/mana-sink style decks.
Having said this...Tooth and Nail, Emrakul, etc. (I.e. more linear ramp decks) can win FAST. In the right meta; it can be very difficult for anyone to beat you (as they can’t go over the top of you...but if they don’t have interaction they also can’t stop you from auto-winning with your 10+ drop.
I think both options have a place in Modern. Our job is to show players the options and when they work best (so Decotion players can choose what works best for them in their particular meta).
_____
P.S. I love the combo of Domri and Titans :). Kinda like our own Breach deck :). But he can also draw cards!
This primer is never going up, is it lol. I remember reading back since late 2017/early 2018 that it's gonna go up. Fast forward and two months of 2019 have passed
There were a few changes in 2017 (mostly Stompy amd some stuff with Anthony’s list); but the overhaul has been in the works for several months. My first go at it took up more than the entire first page...so I had to figure out how to go about doing spoilers/removing stuff.
The card images still have to be reduced...but the remainder is done (ready for copy/pasting). I did have a few health/family issues pop up so I do apologize for the delay. I’ll post today when the remainder is up!
was moderns popularity for fatal pushsomething that keeps roshen meanderer X/X decks from being effective?
Krasis has been actually quite good. I initially assumed it was too slow; but so far that has not been the case. The life-gain has been way more important than I initially anticipated. I will post more if the list is viable after 100+ games.
I did luck out because I pre-ordered a set when they were only $7 or $8 on SCG (that’s what they started them at). I didn’t have any “foresight” or anything like that (I’d love to take credit for it...but no...) I just tend to buy sets of anything that is mythic or rare that:
1. Allows for cost reduction
2. Is a man-sink/X-spell
3. Plays something for free (like Electrodominance & Phoenix)
4. If the power level is Modern playable (I.e. Trophy, etc.)
Sometimes you get lucky like here...sometimes you get burned (I paid a lot for As Foretold )
In terms of the lists; we are just kinda in a lull in the format. When the format was essentially everyone racing everyone; the Pact/BTE list was the best by far (and still is based on results). There is just SOOOO much you can do with the base of Sprawl, Arbor Elf, Garruk, Nykthos that it leads to us always asking “exactly how can I break things with the mana and exploit the current meta?”
There is not a “set” list; but as long as Green Devotion is a big mana deck...the main choices for each builder are what they are going to do in turns 3, 4, and 5 (and beyond with interaction). We can go over the top of every deck in the format...so really we just have to have a 75 that can lead our opponents where we want them to go.
The constraints are the toughest part of brewing Devotion. Green in general and Garruk Wildspeaker in practice both concern themselves with creatures...and Devotion wants green permanents; so each brew requires a balance other decks don’t have to worry about.
I'm back. Had to go to Florida (as our Grandfather was hospitalized) for a few days. I am here now and will work having the primer be public. It is done; so it shouldn't take but 1-2 fixes to make public and under the page.
I have a feeling the errors have to deal with the apostrophes used.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I haven't been brewed with genesis hydra in quite sometimes. But i remember you had some good lists with it.
-------------------------------
On another note,
this is the last list I had before I put the game down for a little while, It was centered around landing either Primeval titan or landing rune-scarred demon then using there tutor abilities to get the pump lands for winning the game in the next turn. In demons case on could tool box spells some what, despite being 7 mana for a demonic tutor often I have enough extra mana for casting push or trophy in the same turn.
How would you tweak it for the current meta?
4 rune-scarred demon
4 arbor elf
1 craterhoof behemoth
1 birds of paradise
2 thragtusk
1 eternal witness
1 rhonas the indomitable
2 courser of kruphix
3 kitchen finks
4 utoptia sprawl
3 fatal push
1 slaughter pact
3 assassin's trophy
1 kessig wolf run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 field of ruin
1 khalni garden
1 cavern of souls
20 lands and fetches
a good List with Genesis Hydra ? My strongest build with the Genesis Hydra was brew around Freed from the Real. This Hydra can dig AND cast in the same time aura's and artifacts or any other nonland card. This is a very rare ability for green.
This Hydra had 1 Problem. Cast it with only 4 Mana, we can dig only 2 cards deep, cast it with 10 Mana, we get at least a big creature (without trample!) and get only 1 card. Ok, this one founded card can be a GameChanger/Win-Condition or to be whatever a good card. In my Eyes is the Hydra more a Support and Tool creature and not a threat.
Hydroid Krasis is the better card imo. The cast trigger is gold against control, because even with a counter this creature self-replaced itself. It can be a card advantage against other Midrange decks, against aggro even a 2/2 , 1 Life + 1 Card is not that bad in the early turns. The modes are not all that thrilling, but all together did that creature in nearly every stage a good Job.
The other part as a ramp deck. We need (mostly) no free cast effects, we almost have the mana to cast all the cards in our hand. In most cases we run out of Gas. I will using the Hydroid Krasis to finsih the Game the next 1-2 turns as a big threat with double evasion and at best with counter or protection with my extra draws.
At first sight both creature are similar, but at second look, both are very different.
Current Modern Meta (http://mtgtop8.com)
Aggro:
Red Deck Wins 11%
UR Aggro 9 %
Death's Shadow 7 %
Control:
UrzaTron 5 %
Combo:
Dredge 6 %
The Big five, are 38% of the Meta.
LifeGain and Removal are both good against Aggro. But i didn't see anything against Tron or Dredge - at least hard to tell what are you will be doing without a Sideboard
(https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2019-02-19)
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Kiora, Master of the Depths
Creature (19)
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Eternal Witness
1 Hornet Queen
3 Kiora's Follower
1 Primeval Titan
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Walking Ballista
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
3 Primal Command
1 Time Warp
3 Tooth and Nail
Enchantment (8)
4 Overgrowth
4 Utopia Sprawl
Land (22)
3 Breeding Pool
6 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dismember
1 Dragonlord Atarka
2 Negate
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Trinisphere
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Interesting 1 of Timewarp in there. Kiora's Follower instead of Voyaging Satyr.
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Hope Tender
3 Voyaging Satyr
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
2 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells:19
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Overgrowth
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Kiora, Master of the Depths
3 Primal Command
4 Tooth and Nail
2 Breeding Pool
9 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Walking Ballista
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Creeping Corrosion
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Also, I dig Dromoka. Very good versus burn/lightning bolt decks. I do think your list is missing a sweeper of some sort in the main. Dragonlord Atarka or Walking Ballista are very good and oftentimes worthwhile preboard. If your meta is very combo or control heavy though, I can see relegating them to the side like you have.
The decks im most likely to face are Grixis Death Shadow, affinity, burn, storm, and dredge,
A few additional lists...will be in primer (approximately one hour).
Had to stay in Florida for a few weeks (as grandfather went to hospidal); but I have already begun posting what I can (just doing it in peices so I can see where the issue lies...just copy pasting section by section).
Will write again in 30 minutes to let you know what sections are up.
P.S. Removed all but the most "stock lists" for now (and we can add as we go when we feel a lists warrants it).
I've been having fun with a version of your Titan Domri Riot Deck. Only played casual with the deck so far, tho against good decks (burn, death shadow and elves), but I'm taking it to FNM when I get some ordered cards.
1x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
2x Courser of Kruphix
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
3x Elvish Visionary
2x Inferno Titan
3x Primeval Titan
1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Walking Ballista
2x Domri, Chaos Bringer
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
Land
1x Cinder Glade
6x Forest
1x Kessig Wolf Run
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Acidic Slime
2x Blood Moon
2x Bonfire of the Damned
1x Dragonlord Dromoka
1x Genesis Hydra
2x Obstinate Baloth
2x Rest in Peace
1x Rhythm of the Wild
1x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
I saw in the primer Alexanders alternative Tooth N' Nail-deck with Lotus Cobra and Knight of the Reliquary, not sure it was there before the update but it piqued my interest. Does anyone have any experience with the deck, does it run well compared to the more traditional list? And does anyone have any thoughts on updates to the deck since it's from 2015? It seems to be lacking in the removal section, not even running enchantment- or artifact-hate. It seems a bit slower but more resilient against opponent screwing up our ramp and with the knight fetching utility lands when needed.
I started playing ramp with Tooth N' Nail, but after consistently getting my ramp screwed by my opponents, and I started lurking in this thread, I went over to playing Craterhoof Behemoth devotion, but I guess I miss swinging with Emrakul
Restore Balance
Green Devotion x
——
Table of Contents is up and each link section is going up now. Will post again when entire primer is up.
The starting deck lists are based on extremely recent data (with a section talking about past archetypes separate).
There is still a LOT more to copy/paste (but it’s going up now)...but I’m excited to have everyone see what I can see on my end! I’ll post shortly today when the other sections are up.
That’s always been the toughest problem with playing a more straight-forward “ramp” list....the opponent only has to attack half of the deck (leaving you with either a ton of mana and no big cards or a few big cards and no way to cast them.). That’s generally why I tend to play more card-draw/mana-sink style decks.
Having said this...Tooth and Nail, Emrakul, etc. (I.e. more linear ramp decks) can win FAST. In the right meta; it can be very difficult for anyone to beat you (as they can’t go over the top of you...but if they don’t have interaction they also can’t stop you from auto-winning with your 10+ drop.
I think both options have a place in Modern. Our job is to show players the options and when they work best (so Decotion players can choose what works best for them in their particular meta).
_____
P.S. I love the combo of Domri and Titans :). Kinda like our own Breach deck :). But he can also draw cards!
_________
There were a few changes in 2017 (mostly Stompy amd some stuff with Anthony’s list); but the overhaul has been in the works for several months. My first go at it took up more than the entire first page...so I had to figure out how to go about doing spoilers/removing stuff.
The card images still have to be reduced...but the remainder is done (ready for copy/pasting). I did have a few health/family issues pop up so I do apologize for the delay. I’ll post today when the remainder is up!