There are many competitive players on Cockatrice. I used to have a playgroup that I mostly played with, until it dissipated recently, and everyone in it was a solid magic player.
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Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
It's good if you can block forever. It's better to win the Game in a instant.
The Craterhoof Behemoth win the Game and the supreme blocker is the Hornet Queen, because the Bees are very hard to remove. Ok, it cost a bit more Mana, but it is worth.
I'm a brewer. If i would play Vigor, i just put a lot of "fight a creature you don't control" effects in the Deck, and a lot undercost big creatures - That's all. A clean and strong concept. Big beaters and creature removals. Now you must be fast enough against Combo. Good Luck.
It's good if you can block forever. It's better to win the Game in a instant.
The Craterhoof Behemoth win the Game and the supreme blocker is the Hornet Queen, because the Bees are very hard to remove. Ok, it cost a bit more Mana, but it is worth.
I'm a brewer. If i would play Vigor, i just put a lot of "fight a creature you don't control" effects in the Deck, and a lot undercost big creatures - That's all. A clean and strong concept. Big beaters and creature removals. Now you must be fast enough against Combo. Good Luck.
I can see him 1of in Gigantossaur Devotion, maybe instead of Ruric Thar or even Gigantosaurus, Thragtusk, etc. With this Humans and Death's Shadow around we can use our Birds as a weapon to win.
Can be Vigor a good option? Even mana dorks can block forever.
I once built a fun Deck with Vigor, Walking Ballista, and Hardened Scales (can use Snake too...but at the time I used Scales...) for what I assumed was an "infinite counter into infinite damage" combo deck. It was a blast to play. I had built it as a Devotion deck, so its possible there is a better build out there with those cards; but I enjoyed playing it (as the cards are pretty good by themselves even if you don't build the combo).
@CurdBros
Ok, thats a cool Combo. Every Card in this Combo is useful on its own . Maybe its time for a Golgari Counters Devotion Deck .
Maybe i did a brew next Time.
I also play Devotion as a Combo Deck (rather than a toolbox deck or value deck) as I tend to base all my decks on my "Devotion Philosophy"...not that this is a novel idea. I think most Devotion decks on here (even those playing a lot of value cards) still play much like a combo deck too (Craterhoof often acts like a 1-card combo ). Attacking with creatures is normally my secondary option for winning the game.
I started this post with my long-winded philosophy on Devotion...until I realized that most people wouldn't want to read it! Ha! Needless to say, I'm happy to let anyone that wants to know; but am not so "smart" to think that my opinion on how to play Devotion is better than anyone else. I just love learning from everyone on here and being part of an awesome community.
Below is the Walker Deck I've been playing recently.
Obviously, it is the same essetial core as most of my Walker decks; but the interaction includes Jace's bounce,a single Vraska for her Abrupt Decay, Acidic Slime, and Polukranos (and then of coruse a board of nearly all interaction). Very similar to the Red version (just different walkers for the most part). This deck in particular plays very much the way I like to play Devotion (lower CMC, more card draw, more advantage, more mana sinks, etc.)
I've been trying a few different boards. One actually utilizes white (as I really don't HAVE to use an Overgrown tomb as the only black card in the main is Vraska, Golgari Queen. I have really like Vraska, however. She is a great "global answer" to non-land permanent (having access to Abrubpt Decay is nice in any match up) in the main...but between Oath, Birds, and Utopia Sprawl I can still play her even if the deck doesn't splash black. I REALLY want to be able to play Knight of Autumn (as it takes up so few slots while providing life-gain, artifact/enchantment hate, and potential beats...but it's going to take a few more games for me to be certain if white is needed to deal with the match ups I want to deal with.
I know the deck currently plays 61 cards. I haven't decided whether I want to play 20 or 21 lands...but I feel like 21 is better even if it pushes the deck to 61 cards. There is nothing I want to remove; so if the deck plays better at 61 (with 21 lands) than so be it!
If the meta moves into a meta fully of Jund, Spirits, Humans, etc. it really helps us in my opinion. We can gum up the board and go over the top of such decks. Obviously I tend to play decks that have a little more "value" than some others, but nearly all Green Devotion decks perform better when creature-based, board-based opponents compared to the hyper-linear/stack-based decks like Storm, Infect, etc. The board options available ot us make it very easy to utilize the best form of interaction possible in games 2 and 3; while we also have general interaction like Acidic Slime, Command, Vraska, etc. and now potentially Assassin's Trophy in the main for any problem permanents.
@CurdBros
Ok, thats a cool Combo. Every Card in this Combo is useful on its own . Maybe its time for a Golgari Counters Devotion Deck .
Maybe i did a brew next Time.
I’d love to see it! There was a time I was all about +/l1/+1 counters (Nissa VOZ, Balista, Ajani Mentor, and Finks are all great with counter synergy); but I tried to cram too much in one deck. Probably just having the combo, Nissa, and good Devotion cards is all it would take really. We can also learn some things from the current counters decks.
__________
Questions for the Community
Quick questions on the above list:
1. You think I can get away with 3 copies but of Bird of Paradise instead of 4? I Would likely replace it with another Nissa Steward of Elements, Courser, or a Singleton.
2. Is Assassin’s trophy a 3-of in a board with black?
Grats on another 5-0 Nonamealreadytaken. I've been playing the deck a fair bit recently and was wondering what are your mulligan strategies, if you have any at all.
1. You think I can get away with 3 copies but of Bird of Paradise instead of 4? I Would likely replace it with another Nissa Steward of Elements, Courser, or a Singleton.
2. Is Assassin’s trophy a 3-of in a board with black?
1. Yes. The difference is marginal.
2. Possibly. It provides instant and unconditional targeted removal of creatures and planeswalkers, both of which are sometimes quite problematic. For various reasons, I am considering the black splash quite strongly.
I’ve recently noticed that both Polukranos and Acidic slime have been performing well. Polukranos in particular. Thought I’d point that out because it is something that has been a more recent finding.
**EDIT**
The synergies between Kiora, Courser, Jace, Nissa Steward of Elements, and Oath of Nissa (along with fetch lands) are truly a “sum is stronger than the parts” situation. This was seen a little when Todd and others played “Turbo Lands” but when things like Oath and Kiora+Witness allow you to REALLY dig and untap. The untapping somewhat replaces their use of “play extra land effects. I didn’t really think about it until I recently watched a “Modern Turbo Lands” video.
An example popped up this evening (Friday). I just had a game with a turn 3 Wave for 14 due to synergies between Garruk, Nissa SOE, an Oath, a Witness, and Arbor Elf+ 2x Sprawl. Granted...it took a few Nykthos (with 1 coming from Nissa’s 0 ability); so it is not something that happens every few games...but it was still interesting.
That in a nutshell is why I love playing Devotion. We have the ability to do things no other deck in the format can. We have the ability to build decks that CAN “go off” by turn 3 or 4; but also that are extremely resilient at the same time so that they don’t HAVE to go off early to win. This is a rare combo.
Just a few days back I saw NoName (Fulgence) win against Holydiva via a Woodland Bellower into BTE to trigger another Nykthos to cast the Craterhoof in hand...no other deck can go 6-drop, 8-drop that early (I can’t say for certain what turn it was on; but I’m pretty certain it was turn 3, 4, or 5. It was fast enough she couldn’t do anything about it!). Again, it took a few Nykthos...but that was just an explosive win. There were plenty other Grundy ones too. Devotion is awesome
I was looking for other ways to “deal” with creatures and remembered that Jace still can bounce any problem creature in game one! So why not play a third Jace?
I do love Tireless Tracker with Genesis Wave; but I was finding:
A. In games where I Wave for X=5 or more...I tend to win anyways (have no real need for the clues).
B. I really don’t NEED another threat in the main deck. I win with the combo a good portion of the time...some games you just bury the opponent in cards...and both Polukranos and Nissa can end games very quickly with a lot of mana.
I’ll have the sideboard up this evening (along with a few game summaries).
I will also have the new Primer up on Thursday of this coming week (with the newer decks in there as well). I kinda stopped working on it when I got frustrated with the formatting; but have since slowly removed/fixed things in my free time to get it there.
Played an Anthony Skrzypczak devotion deck for a couple outings. Wasn't bad and won a couple matches each time. But burning tree emissary and oath of nissa have been terrible. https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18090&d=312273&f=MO
By the way, I think the arbor colossus is a typo, supposed to be arbor elf.
Knight of Autumn is okay, I don't see the first mode being used much. I guess it's better than reclamation sage.
Blood moon has been great out of the sideboard. It's been great against jund. I think it would be okay against tron too, I think our clock is fast enough to capitalize on it.
@ edo6288
I have played a lot of sideboard blood moons, and have found them to be quite good. Funny story, I recently went to an FNM and decided on a whim to not bring the moons, to see what happens. Was promptly paired against Tron and humans. Moons are going back in the board.
I have not had too many chances to test this yet, but it seems fun. Woodland Bellower can fill the grave with wayfinder, grab something back with ewit, or just present another threat with flayer. Also using Garruk and Nykthos to chain Bellower>Ewit>Command/Traverse>Emrakul seems good.
What's the most competitive version of Devotion right now? I get that there's a few different philosophies and that you can tune to a local meta...etc but surely there's at least a core 50 cards with half of a sideboard that is "generally accepted as" a core list to build on? For instance, I'd imagine Pact is generally more competitive than P.Command because its a faster kill...we generally want 4x Wildspeakers... Is Gigantosaurus a core creature now?
So, I found this thread searching for Fulgence' name, as I found this deck because he's been doing well enough consistently enough on mtgo to show up on MTGGOldfish's Modern page. Now, IK that page isn't perfect, as it can't account for nearly all the data even from modo, but the records and deck impressed me enough that I wanted to look into it. Due to A: Devotion being on of my original loves but didn't follow through with it out of worry it wouldn't work, and B: Because it's one of the few decks I like that's within my budget range.
So, this is his current list; https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1342080#paper (Also, if Fulgence is still around and sees this, feel free to comment ;P.)
Thoughts?
I have a few criticisms myself, but I'm not the *best* player. In any case, personally I feel there aren't enough company targets to not use chord instead. Second, and he likely changes this, Knight of Autumns instead of Sage and Finks. Third, it needs more grave hate IMO. Personally I'd go with 2 Remorseful Clerics over Rade and the sparkmage, as the clerics are reusable and searchable, and the things they're replacing aren't huge counters to anything.
I've tested this version of mine some, and I think it's doing ok. But in part due to me being new (I played dredge and lost to a titanshift deck that didn't play shift the whole match), and because anything can do "well" in modern, I wanted other opinions.
EDIT: In case you didn't know, Fulgence came up once before in this thread, but from what I can tell his list has changed almost completely since then.
EDIT #2; After analyzing past posts more, I can tell there's also a huge difference in Fulgence' and your lists, the latter of which are far more focused on land enchants it seems. I'm fine with whatever works, however this means in order to make a good comparison I'd like to echo the above statement by ARK to see a "core" list of cards (for your guys version).
Played an Anthony Skrzypczak devotion deck for a couple outings. Wasn't bad and won a couple matches each time. But burning tree emissary and oath of nissa have been terrible. https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18090&d=312273&f=MO
By the way, I think the arbor colossus is a typo, supposed to be arbor elf.
Knight of Autumn is okay, I don't see the first mode being used much. I guess it's better than reclamation sage.
Blood moon has been great out of the sideboard. It's been great against jund. I think it would be okay against tron too, I think our clock is fast enough to capitalize on it.
Ok, so, it took a bit but I'm caught up now. Turns out Fulgence' list *insn't* that far off from everyone else's... however it seems in general lists are a bit all over the place. Sure each list is doing decently, but I'm not sure there *is* a core other then "green devotion". I'm not really upset by this per- se, but it is something I think should be fixed. Have a post or something outlining the different kinds of green devotion and what they usually entail. Due to this ambiguity, I'm working on my own ideas atm based on what I've seen ,but it'll be a while before I have anything.
I'd say Devotion has too many variants to have a single "core" list beyond:
4 Arbor Elf
2-4 Birds of Paradise
4 Utopia Sprawl
3-4 Nykthos
1 Kessig Wolf Run
There are Planeswalker heavy lists that run low creature count, Collected Company lists that run high creature count and no Planeswalkers, Pact lists that focus on fast explosive games, and Command lists that try to grind out value in a longer game. You're not gonna get 50 cards that match among them.
And then separately from those are the Tooth and Nail lists which have a different gameplan.
Lastly, there's a lot of experimentation going on in this thread with people trying different colors and focuses, either for fun, or to see how competitive they can be (or both) so some recently posted lists are not well tested against a wide meta.
I would suggest proxying a couple different variations if you have some friends to test against and see which you like best. I built a Command-style version but am slowly piecing together the other parts to change it up if I want to.
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MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
The Craterhoof Behemoth win the Game and the supreme blocker is the Hornet Queen, because the Bees are very hard to remove. Ok, it cost a bit more Mana, but it is worth.
I'm a brewer. If i would play Vigor, i just put a lot of "fight a creature you don't control" effects in the Deck, and a lot undercost big creatures - That's all. A clean and strong concept. Big beaters and creature removals. Now you must be fast enough against Combo. Good Luck.
I can see him 1of in Gigantossaur Devotion, maybe instead of Ruric Thar or even Gigantosaurus, Thragtusk, etc. With this Humans and Death's Shadow around we can use our Birds as a weapon to win.
I once built a fun Deck with Vigor, Walking Ballista, and Hardened Scales (can use Snake too...but at the time I used Scales...) for what I assumed was an "infinite counter into infinite damage" combo deck. It was a blast to play. I had built it as a Devotion deck, so its possible there is a better build out there with those cards; but I enjoyed playing it (as the cards are pretty good by themselves even if you don't build the combo).
Ok, thats a cool Combo. Every Card in this Combo is useful on its own . Maybe its time for a Golgari Counters Devotion Deck
Maybe i did a brew next Time.
I started this post with my long-winded philosophy on Devotion...until I realized that most people wouldn't want to read it! Ha! Needless to say, I'm happy to let anyone that wants to know; but am not so "smart" to think that my opinion on how to play Devotion is better than anyone else. I just love learning from everyone on here and being part of an awesome community.
Below is the Walker Deck I've been playing recently.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Courser of Kruphix
2x Eternal Witness
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Acidic Slime
Enchantment/Artifact (9)
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
2x Cloudstone Curio
1x Nissa, Steward of Elements
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Kiora, Master of the Depths
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Vraska, Golgari Queen
Instant/Sorcery (3)
3x Genesis Wave
Land (21)
7x Green Fetch Land
7x Forest
2x Breeding Pool
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Obviously, it is the same essetial core as most of my Walker decks; but the interaction includes Jace's bounce,a single Vraska for her Abrupt Decay, Acidic Slime, and Polukranos (and then of coruse a board of nearly all interaction). Very similar to the Red version (just different walkers for the most part). This deck in particular plays very much the way I like to play Devotion (lower CMC, more card draw, more advantage, more mana sinks, etc.)
I've been trying a few different boards. One actually utilizes white (as I really don't HAVE to use an Overgrown tomb as the only black card in the main is Vraska, Golgari Queen. I have really like Vraska, however. She is a great "global answer" to non-land permanent (having access to Abrubpt Decay is nice in any match up) in the main...but between Oath, Birds, and Utopia Sprawl I can still play her even if the deck doesn't splash black. I REALLY want to be able to play Knight of Autumn (as it takes up so few slots while providing life-gain, artifact/enchantment hate, and potential beats...but it's going to take a few more games for me to be certain if white is needed to deal with the match ups I want to deal with.
I know the deck currently plays 61 cards. I haven't decided whether I want to play 20 or 21 lands...but I feel like 21 is better even if it pushes the deck to 61 cards. There is nothing I want to remove; so if the deck plays better at 61 (with 21 lands) than so be it!
If the meta moves into a meta fully of Jund, Spirits, Humans, etc. it really helps us in my opinion. We can gum up the board and go over the top of such decks. Obviously I tend to play decks that have a little more "value" than some others, but nearly all Green Devotion decks perform better when creature-based, board-based opponents compared to the hyper-linear/stack-based decks like Storm, Infect, etc. The board options available ot us make it very easy to utilize the best form of interaction possible in games 2 and 3; while we also have general interaction like Acidic Slime, Command, Vraska, etc. and now potentially Assassin's Trophy in the main for any problem permanents.
I’d love to see it! There was a time I was all about +/l1/+1 counters (Nissa VOZ, Balista, Ajani Mentor, and Finks are all great with counter synergy); but I tried to cram too much in one deck. Probably just having the combo, Nissa, and good Devotion cards is all it would take really. We can also learn some things from the current counters decks.
__________
Questions for the Community
Quick questions on the above list:
1. You think I can get away with 3 copies but of Bird of Paradise instead of 4? I Would likely replace it with another Nissa Steward of Elements, Courser, or a Singleton.
2. Is Assassin’s trophy a 3-of in a board with black?
1. Yes. The difference is marginal.
2. Possibly. It provides instant and unconditional targeted removal of creatures and planeswalkers, both of which are sometimes quite problematic. For various reasons, I am considering the black splash quite strongly.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
**EDIT**
The synergies between Kiora, Courser, Jace, Nissa Steward of Elements, and Oath of Nissa (along with fetch lands) are truly a “sum is stronger than the parts” situation. This was seen a little when Todd and others played “Turbo Lands” but when things like Oath and Kiora+Witness allow you to REALLY dig and untap. The untapping somewhat replaces their use of “play extra land effects. I didn’t really think about it until I recently watched a “Modern Turbo Lands” video.
An example popped up this evening (Friday). I just had a game with a turn 3 Wave for 14 due to synergies between Garruk, Nissa SOE, an Oath, a Witness, and Arbor Elf+ 2x Sprawl. Granted...it took a few Nykthos (with 1 coming from Nissa’s 0 ability); so it is not something that happens every few games...but it was still interesting.
That in a nutshell is why I love playing Devotion. We have the ability to do things no other deck in the format can. We have the ability to build decks that CAN “go off” by turn 3 or 4; but also that are extremely resilient at the same time so that they don’t HAVE to go off early to win. This is a rare combo.
Just a few days back I saw NoName (Fulgence) win against Holydiva via a Woodland Bellower into BTE to trigger another Nykthos to cast the Craterhoof in hand...no other deck can go 6-drop, 8-drop that early (I can’t say for certain what turn it was on; but I’m pretty certain it was turn 3, 4, or 5. It was fast enough she couldn’t do anything about it!). Again, it took a few Nykthos...but that was just an explosive win. There were plenty other Grundy ones too. Devotion is awesome
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Courser of Kruphix
2x Eternal Witness
1x Polukranos, World Eater
1x Acidic Slime
Enchantment/Artifact (9)
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
2x Cloudstone Curio
1x Nissa, Steward of Elements
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Kiora, Master of the Depths
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Instant/Sorcery (3)
3x Genesis Wave
Land (21)
8x Green Fetch Land
7x Forest
2x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
I was looking for other ways to “deal” with creatures and remembered that Jace still can bounce any problem creature in game one! So why not play a third Jace?
I do love Tireless Tracker with Genesis Wave; but I was finding:
A. In games where I Wave for X=5 or more...I tend to win anyways (have no real need for the clues).
B. I really don’t NEED another threat in the main deck. I win with the combo a good portion of the time...some games you just bury the opponent in cards...and both Polukranos and Nissa can end games very quickly with a lot of mana.
I’ll have the sideboard up this evening (along with a few game summaries).
I will also have the new Primer up on Thursday of this coming week (with the newer decks in there as well). I kinda stopped working on it when I got frustrated with the formatting; but have since slowly removed/fixed things in my free time to get it there.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
By the way, I think the arbor colossus is a typo, supposed to be arbor elf.
Knight of Autumn is okay, I don't see the first mode being used much. I guess it's better than reclamation sage.
Blood moon has been great out of the sideboard. It's been great against jund. I think it would be okay against tron too, I think our clock is fast enough to capitalize on it.
I have played a lot of sideboard blood moons, and have found them to be quite good. Funny story, I recently went to an FNM and decided on a whim to not bring the moons, to see what happens. Was promptly paired against Tron and humans. Moons are going back in the board.
Anyways, I have been brewing:
Gbr Delirious Devotion
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Grim Flayer
3 Eternal Witness
3 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
4 Faithless Looting
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
2 Primal Command
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
8 Green Fetch
5 Forest
I have not had too many chances to test this yet, but it seems fun. Woodland Bellower can fill the grave with wayfinder, grab something back with ewit, or just present another threat with flayer. Also using Garruk and Nykthos to chain Bellower>Ewit>Command/Traverse>Emrakul seems good.
So, this is his current list; https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1342080#paper (Also, if Fulgence is still around and sees this, feel free to comment ;P.)
Thoughts?
I have a few criticisms myself, but I'm not the *best* player. In any case, personally I feel there aren't enough company targets to not use chord instead. Second, and he likely changes this, Knight of Autumns instead of Sage and Finks. Third, it needs more grave hate IMO. Personally I'd go with 2 Remorseful Clerics over Rade and the sparkmage, as the clerics are reusable and searchable, and the things they're replacing aren't huge counters to anything.
I've tested this version of mine some, and I think it's doing ok. But in part due to me being new (I played dredge and lost to a titanshift deck that didn't play shift the whole match), and because anything can do "well" in modern, I wanted other opinions.
EDIT: In case you didn't know, Fulgence came up once before in this thread, but from what I can tell his list has changed almost completely since then.
EDIT #2; After analyzing past posts more, I can tell there's also a huge difference in Fulgence' and your lists, the latter of which are far more focused on land enchants it seems. I'm fine with whatever works, however this means in order to make a good comparison I'd like to echo the above statement by ARK to see a "core" list of cards (for your guys version).
that typo list is still floating around???
arbor elf not arbor colossus like a combo deck without its signature combo piece.
4 Arbor Elf
2-4 Birds of Paradise
4 Utopia Sprawl
3-4 Nykthos
1 Kessig Wolf Run
There are Planeswalker heavy lists that run low creature count, Collected Company lists that run high creature count and no Planeswalkers, Pact lists that focus on fast explosive games, and Command lists that try to grind out value in a longer game. You're not gonna get 50 cards that match among them.
And then separately from those are the Tooth and Nail lists which have a different gameplan.
Lastly, there's a lot of experimentation going on in this thread with people trying different colors and focuses, either for fun, or to see how competitive they can be (or both) so some recently posted lists are not well tested against a wide meta.
I would suggest proxying a couple different variations if you have some friends to test against and see which you like best. I built a Command-style version but am slowly piecing together the other parts to change it up if I want to.