I like March of the Multitudes in theory....convoke can be extremely powerful...but in play I fear it may be a little “win-more” or “win-slow” for us.
What i mean by “win-slow” is that even if casting them for X=a lot; you still have to wait another turn...I like my X-spells in general to have to potential to win the game...in my deck a Wave for X=6+ is generally going to end in a win that Same turn. Modern unfortunately for us is too fast to give an opponent an additional thrn after we tap out. Of course haste enablers can change this; but that requires adding another card to the deck to make it run efficiently.
Having said this, I am interested to see how the card plays/how quickly it can get out of hand.
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I’ll be testing a black splash version of my deck tonight with Assassin’s Trophy in the board (and possibly one main).
I'm testing your list and it's very good. SLC puts the pressure that AS list was missing.
Another option os change the Witness Loop for Pacts and more toolbox creatures, but I don't have idea for this changes now.
The pressure from the SLC definitely helps keep the opponent on the back foot while you build towards a lethal board. Getting stuck on green mana when you need 3 for SLC does happen, but infrequently enough that I still think the card is strong enough on its own merit to include 4x. I wouldn't question anyone for dropping to 3 but I still want to keep at least 3. It was my highest damage dealer on the night and forced my opponents to make bad trades to get it off the table. Plopping another one down right after they dealt with one was backbreaking. I never tutored for or cast Craterhoof.
As for the Witness, I just made a conscious decision when I bought the deck to go the Eternal-Command route instead of BTE-Pact b/c I expected to be playing more grindy decks. Witness was invaluable for me in the Wildfire matchup, where I cast & rebought Fracturing Gust 3x. And having the different modes of Primal Command is super flexible. I used every mode at least once- +7 life vs Wildfire/Burn, Bounce noncreature vs pretty much everything, shuffle graveyard vs the Abzan deck who had Grim Flayer for Delirium, and search for creature just about every time.
I'm testing your list and it's very good. SLC puts the pressure that AS list was missing.
Another option os change the Witness Loop for Pacts and more toolbox creatures, but I don't have idea for this changes now.
The pressure from the SLC definitely helps keep the opponent on the back foot while you build towards a lethal board. Getting stuck on green mana when you need 3 for SLC does happen, but infrequently enough that I still think the card is strong enough on its own merit to include 4x. I wouldn't question anyone for dropping to 3 but I still want to keep at least 3. It was my highest damage dealer on the night and forced my opponents to make bad trades to get it off the table. Plopping another one down right after they dealt with one was backbreaking. I never tutored for or cast Craterhoof.
As for the Witness, I just made a conscious decision when I bought the deck to go the Eternal-Command route instead of BTE-Pact b/c I expected to be playing more grindy decks. Witness was invaluable for me in the Wildfire matchup, where I cast & rebought Fracturing Gust 3x. And having the different modes of Primal Command is super flexible. I used every mode at least once- +7 life vs Wildfire/Burn, Bounce noncreature vs pretty much everything, shuffle graveyard vs the Abzan deck who had Grim Flayer for Delirium, and search for creature just about every time.
Yeah, I really love SLC too, my opponent is forced to removal him saving the real threats, it is a staple for Green Devotion IMO.
Agreed, Primal Command is very strong against the most common decks, I just feel that I can't cast it sometimes.
Another idea is Trinisphere, if you change Scooze and another thing for 2 copies, looks very strong too. This can slow almost all the actual meta without hurt your list (maybe just Oath).
Knullhide Ferox is crazy powerful...but super weird. I think Stompy definitely wants it...I’m going to have to play it to get a true sense of it. 4-cmc is a good number for us though.
Lack of evasion really hurts too. It’s a no-go for me due to high amount of Enchantment, Walker, and Waves...but I would t think someone playing a heavy-creature deck was absolutely nuts for trying it out.
Super interesting card though. I like to see some of these more “deep” or “odd” designs at mythic. I think the “generally good” or constructed cards should be uncommon or rare (depending on their limited effect) and mythic should encompass the wackier designs like this. Definitely has high power level; but not sure the sum of abilities are enough for most Devotion decks (unless they are very Creature-heavy which can be done).
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I quite like Goblin Cratermaker. Creature-based removal of small creatures and a way to deal with artifacts, kci, eldrazi, and some Tron permanents...May try it in my abrade slots (as Oath can grab it).
Hmmm...Knullhide Ferox, is more a Card for Ponza or Green Control. Or a weird tax Deck with green
Its been a while since I've seen "Any player may activate this ability" on a card. Clever Design. Everyone got a reason to use the ability.
Anyways, i think about: Obstinate Baloth and Loxodon Smiter. Both had seen plays in Modern, but not that much. If Jund goes big again i would boarding the Ferox.
Goblin Cratermaker, It blows up Eldrazi, it blows up Tron parts, it blows up Aether Vial. It blows up Ensnaring Bridge. It blows up Cranial Plating. It blows up swords. It blows up all kinds of stuff. It's not the best, but it's very good at being a utility goblin. It might see main boards as creature hate and artifact hate. Pretty good for a uncommon.
Nullhide Ferox is a good card. It's basically just very undercosted 6/6 with upside. It essentially reads, "your first noncreature spell each turn costs 2 more to cast," and "whenever an opponent casts a spell that targets Ferox, if it's the first spell he or she targeted Ferox with this turn, counter that spell unless he or she pays 2."
I'm not sure it will find a home in Green Devotion or Stompy, since it's four devotion and a bit awkward, but it's perhaps there is some Hexproof Stompy tribal deck that this card can bring together.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I liked Nullhide Ferox, mainly in Gigantosaurus Devotion with small count of non creatures spells. And 2 is very easy for us if necessary. Maybe would be better with Fauna Shaman or something like this.
Beast Whisperer is a card I will 100% play/test. I know it dies to bolt...but it has everything I love in a card (Creature with TONS of potential card draw!!!). Likely better in Elves...but 4-CMC is really better for us than them.
It is a 4-drop with no immediate effect and only a 2/3...so in reality it probably is not strong enough to see Modern play (that is a LOT of strikes against it)...but I am going to try it anyways
I am at least going to try it and give it my all. I’m a sucker for permanent-based card draw (especially creatures) and most of my Devotion decks are play like combo decks...so this MAY have a shot. It’s the cheapest this effect has ever been printed; but I’ve played multiple 4-drops in my experience with Devotion and have found that 90% of the time if the card has no immediate effect...it simply is not good enough (most “engines” really need to be 3-cmc or less).
Nevertheless, I love the card and hope it plays better than I assume it will (as I REALLY want to run at least 1 in my deck )
SO I've tested the Temur Devotion Flash list a lot now and it's very competitive. In fact I think it's pretty well positioned in the current meta. It's my favorite Green Devotion list to play atm. Playing a reactive game with Green Devotion is very unorthodox, and combined with the ability to enable many Huntmaster tranformations makes for great gameplay and powerful Magic.
It has a good matchup vs. U/W control, and hardly any creature decks can claim that these days. The maindeck lifegain from double scooze and quadruple Huntmaster makes the Burn matchup decent. It can disrupt combo with counterspells and Scooze and kill with quick beats. If the mega ramp is disrupted it has a strong value and fair game. It has removal from Huntmaster flips.
It's quite possible the deck just wants more Crumble to Dust instead of Blood Moon to secure the Tron matchup.
Being able to Pact for Snake is super sweet.
I do like me some Temur. Not sure if it's really right in this shell. When I look at this list, it seems like sweet Temur Midrange with the Arbor Elf ramp plan, plus some top end. How often do you see yourself actually using Garruk and the top end Devotion finishers in the deck? Without much devotion and a less turbo ramp plan, it seems like Garruk and the Nykthos' might provide some tension in a 3 color deck. Just curious.
I do like me some Temur. Not sure if it's really right in this shell. When I look at this list, it seems like sweet Temur Midrange with the Arbor Elf ramp plan, plus some top end. How often do you see yourself actually using Garruk and the top end Devotion finishers in the deck? Without much devotion and a less turbo ramp plan, it seems like Garruk and the Nykthos' might provide some tension in a 3 color deck. Just curious.
Sometimes you can play Garruk, untap lands and hold up a Mystic Snake. Then each turn you can do the same; activate Garruk, cast spells and hold up mana for Snake, on your turn and their turn. Soon enough you'll kill them with beaters or an overrun.
And yes, this deck still makes use of the go-big devotion plan, it's resilient and disruptive and value-filled but has potential to go way over the top. It might be slower, but it allows me to to setup up while disrupting my opponent.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
So Beast Whisperer is a BLAST to play. There were some really fun turns (and it got silly with Curio at points). Having said that, I don't think it is fast enough for Modern unfortunately. Granted, I was only able to test it for a dozen or so matches (so the sample size is by no means viable for actual results)...but I did feel at times that a Harmoize would likely just better. I could see it as a 1-of in some decks (as it does mitigate the issue of drawing smaller creatures late and generated a silly amount of cards in some games...and I didn't play enough creatures to really get the full benefit of the card.
I will still be keeping it in my "Green Box" of cards that have potential to be busted. My testing was EXTREMELY limited, and the deck I put it in was not the right deck for it (it needs to be much more creature centric). I did, however, want to at least provide what I have noticed about the card thus far. I do think if the meta does move more towards Jund that being killed by Bolt could be a very large issue as well. 4-CMC creatures are not what they once were (as avoiding Decay won't be as important with the addition of Assassin's Trophy to the meta, and it can still die to a "triggered" Fatal Push.
I will test it some more where I can and let people know how it plays. Thus far, I'm not sure this set has much for us main board...but I already ordered a playset of Assassin's Trophy as a removal spell for the board (and I do find Goblin Cratermaker an option for us in the "Abrade" slot as well...)
Goblin Cratermaker is an amazing card. I don't think I'd be playing it over abrade though, since I care more about the cheaper spell than the 2/2 body.
Beast Whisperer seems too expensive, I still like COurser more. And I don't think Elves wants it either, but I could be wrong about that.
I really wish WOTC would stop printing cards that are good vs. Nykthos. Trophy is yet another way to hurt us. Though when we play against B/x fair decks like Jund or The Rock, I'm not on the Nykthos plan a lot of the time anyways. Having them destroy it and ramping us, could actually be an advantage. It does deal with Garruk which is annoying.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
So this is going in my list. It fills the "ad hoc" slot (that I was trying the other cards in). Mine is a walker list with Eternal Witness and two copies of Nissa, Vital Force (plenty of ways to recur the permanent from her +1...so the synergy is really strong. I always wanted a "removal on a stick" card at 4 or less...so with her and Acidic Slime I'm good.
The board has changed significantly (due to change in colors) and I will post it later upon testing at least 20 matches. I do think the color change is warranted given Assasin's Trophy potential...and at that point, Xenagos just isn't needed.
Not entirely certain of the Assassin's trophy main...but I do like the ability to have a few answers in the main between it and Vraska.
LOL every time a green card is spoiled you just shove it in your deck.
What's your win percentage vs. the current Modern top tier meta?
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I do LOVE spoiler season! I will always try out/playtest every great green card printed! I see it as part of my job as OP. I like to discuss each card as they are spoiled and then a recap at the end of each week as to how each card tested and which cards “make Having said that, you make a good point I should be more clear about.
I love trying out new cards...in the end though; only a few are considered for my particular list. I provide HONEST opinions about how cards play out and the VAST majority don’t make the cut. Also, most of the cards I discuss, I don’t discuss in their relationship to my specific deck. My deck (Walker Devotion) doesn’t change much set to set.
I try to discuss playtesting cards and if they are even powerful enough with the “general” Green Devotion cards to continue testing. I try many out in their relationship to “Traditional” green Devotion and/or how they play in different Devotion decks (Pact decks, Traditional/Command decks, Tooth and Nail, and Walker Devotion) etc). I actually have five different Devotion decks built that i test cards in.
That’s the reason why I haven’t actually provided an “updated” list of my deck until today (despite discussing Knullhide, Beast Whisperer, and Assassin’s Trophy). In reality, even Assassin’s Trophy likely is just a really good sideboard card for us...but it does a lot for me in terms of opening up slots on my board (as you don’t have to run artifact hate, land hate, Enchantment hate, creature hate, etc...it hits them all!
Vraska, however, likely will play well in my Walker Devotion deck that I actually play. I am fairly confident of that even without testing. This is why I posted it. She is a 4-drop (important number) with good synergy (graveyard and card draw) and can answer a lot of problem permanents. I’ve said it a million times in the past; but even if the deck can go “oops I win” on turn 3-4 (which mine can); Green Devotion decks in general have to have interaction to make it in Modern (we are not consistently fast enough to beat the most linear decks). Your recent Flash lists follow this.
In truth, my deck list has been relatively similar for years...its a core of Elf, Bird, Sprawl, Visionary, Witness, Oath, Garruk, Nissa, Curio, and either Wave or Hydra depending on the meta (with generally 6-8 “variable” slots for interactive/meta specific cards). As was said before my last posting, “...it it just the normal Curdbros Walker deck?” To which I replied “pretty much”
I have posted fun “ideas” in the past (+1/+1 counters matter, Elf Devotion, etc.) but those we’re more “fun ideas” than what I would call “my” deck (what I would bring to a tournament). Some were surprisingly strong; but I try to point out where their weaknesses lie. In terms of playing and keeping long-standing records on; I have focused heavily on Walker Devotion (one Curio/Combo Version and one non-combo that essentially changes out Curios and 1-2 other cards)
Thus far, there are a total of two cards I would actively consider (Vraska and Assassin’s Trophy) in my own deck. But yes, it is true that I try pretty much every viable Planeswalker that can either develop card advantage or deal with problem permanents (or in the best case both).
I think Knullhide is a really cool design and that Beast Whisperer was a REALLY fun card (although I didn’t think would make it...which it didn’t in testing). This is the first list I’ve posted of my own list since GRN spoilers started and I’ve changed a total of two Cards in my list.
I do, however, think it is part of my job as OP to examine new cards in their context/relation to Green Devotion (even if they are on the fringes). This doesn’t, however, mean they will make my list. Very few cards do. I can totally see how some of my prior posts seemed to indicate I examine cards only on how they would play in my Walker list.
My deck actually stays relatively similar. Don’t get me wrong...I LOVE brewing; and will post ideas on here from time to time. I would say you are the only person that provides more “idea decks” than I do! :). You’ve got Constructor Devotion, Temur Flash, and many others. Despite loving to Brew; I will always let you know if any idea has long-term viability just as you do (thus far, the only versions that have are Command decks, Pact Decks, Tooth and Nail unless the meta is very hostile to lands, and Walker Devotion).
I’ll post more tonight after I’ve tested Vraska out (and have more data on Assassin’s Trophy and it’s abilty to open up our board options)...but to answer your main question I have a lifetime match win rate of 66.3% with “Walker Devotion” against “meta” decks. I will, however, post current “meta” decks and the match up info later tonight (as match ups from 14 months ago don’t really matter now )
I just tested your Walker Devotion deck out for the first time. I played against some 4c BWGU Gifts deck. I think it was 4c Solar Flare. Basically a Sultai Midrange list with Gifts/Unburial Rites from what I saw.
Holy moly, the match was insane. I ended up winning 2-1. THe last game was insane. My last turn took like 30 minutes. I ddin't think I could win, but I just tried to take the best lines, trying desperately to pull together a combo kill, and somehow after jumping through many hoops I managed to combo kill. It was perhaps the most insane Green Devotion turn I've ever taken.
It's funny how this deck doesn't have infinite dmg with a card like Ballista or Shalai or even just near infinite with Craterhoof. You can win by untapping all your lands with Nissa and and swinging with a bunch of 5/5's, as well as destroying your opponents board with Acidic slime. It seems like a Ballista could be a fine addition, but I guess it's just not necessary. Luckily my opponent was patient and he wanted to see me try to combo kill.
Definitely a lot of fun, but I'm worried many opponents will be rage quitting while I'm doing my thing.
Btw, Vraska was good. Killed Trackers and sacrificed my useless dorks or a visionary which I could just rebuy.
Still, while Walker devotion is a sweet deck, I'm afraid it doesn't have enough interaction to be competitive. Without interactions you can't beat the combo decks or HUmans. And I imagine this deck will struggle with U/W control.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I just tested your Walker Devotion deck out for the first time. I played against some 4c BWGU Gifts deck. I think it was 4c Solar Flare. Basically a Sultai Midrange list with Gifts/Unburial Rites from what I saw.
Holy moly, the match was insane. I ended up winning 2-1. THe last game was insane. My last turn took like 30 minutes. I ddin't think I could win, but I just tried to take the best lines, trying desperately to pull together a combo kill, and somehow after jumping through many hoops I managed to combo kill.
It's funny how this deck doesn't have infinite dmg with a card like Ballista or Shalai or even just near infinite with Craterhoof. You can win by untapping all your lands with Nissa and and swinging with a bunch of 5/5's, as well as destroying your opponents board with Acidic slime. It seems like a Ballista could be a fine addition, but I guess it's just not necessary. Luckily my opponent was patient and he wanted to see me try to combo kill. It was perhaps the most insane Green Devotion turn I've ever taken.
Haha! I can't tell you how hard it has been to get fast enough with playing the deck on MTGO I'm still practicing with my friends and brother in matches every chance I get just to feel omfortable enough with the clicks so I can play it in competitive leagues/tournaments (as I really honestly don't want people to have a "feel bad" moment like people do against Eggs, KCI, etc.)
You are right about some form of direct damage being great. Xenagos can make infinite 2/2 hasters, and like you said, Nissa makes enough damage 99% of the time...but it is nice indeed. I took out Ballista when I put Wave in (switched it for polukranos due to the "nombo") as yout "technically" win the game when you "go off" (as even without Xenagos you can destroy their entire board and create enough hastey creatures to kill them unless they have over + 70+ life without fear of decking yourself)...
I know it is an odd deck to play...that's generally why I tell new players to focus on Pact lists, Command lists, etc. despite my preference for playing the list (that and those lists have a more documented history of success in competitive tournaments).
Definitely a lot of fun, but I'm worried many opponents will be rage quitting while I'm doing my thing.
Btw, Vraska was good. Killed Trackers and sacrificed my useless dorks or a visionary which I could just rebuy.
Still, while Walker devotion is a sweet deck, I'm afraid it doesn't have enough interaction to be competitive. Without interactions you can't beat the combo decks or HUmans. And I imagine this deck will struggle with U/W control.
Yeah...it would be great if they could figure out how to make a "show a loop" function where after you have shown the loop you can just say "do this 20 times" (as you do in paper). Someday hopefully they will be able to do so...for the time being I've gotten very good at hot keys and 1 and 2 for yes and no
I'm glad Vraska worked out. I'm excited to give her a try in a heavy amount of matches.
There are tough match ups for sure (Storm, Infect, Tron if on the draw twice.... I haven't found Humans to be one of them yet; but that may be just my experience with the deck. For me, rather than having main-deck interaction for the worst match ups; I tend to focus more board for those. Between Acidic Slime, Polukranos, Vraska, and one Removal Spell (sometimes Beast Within, sometimes Path, sometimes bolt or abrade...now Assassin's trophy) I feel like I've "maxed" on main deck interaction without hurting the combo nature of the deck. Having said that, this means that the board has to be entirely interactive.
Control, suprisingly, has not been a tough match up. I keep thinking it will be; and keep assuming that the more I play it the more the numbers will invert...but every time I play it I still win a majority of matches...I think it is due to the fact that Control struggles with a many different permanents and with decks that just keep throwing things at them. I haven't determined the exact reason for my U/W Control match up to be "positive" yet...Genesis Hydra helps too.
I don't even play on MTGO. I play on a free third party app, Cockatrice. Once I have the loop it actually goes super quick because Cockatrice is more like paper magic I can just show the opponent the loop and ask if I can shortcut. I played two matches with this deck, and the first opponent ragequit even before I had a loop set up. What took some time was everything up to that point. The game may not have even gone long, but some players don't like to play against combo decks that take long turns before they kill you. Maybe they'd just scoop if it was against a well-known deck.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I don't even play on MTGO. I play on a free third party app, Cockatrice. Once I have the loop it actually goes super quick because Cockatrice is more like paper magic I can just show the opponent the loop and ask if I can shortcut. I played two matches with this deck, and the first opponent ragequit even before I had a loop set up. What took some time was everything up to that point. The game may not have even gone long, but some players don't like to play against combo decks that take long turns before they kill you. Maybe they'd just scoop if it was against a well-known deck.
Yeah...you are right. If it ever became a known quantity; pretty much once you hit the combo people would just scoop...that would be nice I don't know if it will ever get to a point of being known at all (unless I start playing competitive's and getting 5-0's to get it posted by someone way more important than me!). Todd Stevens may play it if I asked; but I wouldn't want to do that to him. Ha! I worry so much about "feel bad" moments that I try often to make the deck without the combo...but it just doesn't seem as good (although I really like the non-combo version with Nissa Steward of Elements and Jace...it is SO overwhelming....maybe I should just make a Sultai one without the oombo).
I haven't determined the exact reason for my U/W Control match up to be "positive" yet...Genesis Hydra helps too.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that against a walker list, all the removal and board wipes in Control decks are dead against planeswalkers, and their counterspells can't stop planewalker activations so you still manage to keep a board presence and grind out advantage that they just can't interact with very easily.
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What i mean by “win-slow” is that even if casting them for X=a lot; you still have to wait another turn...I like my X-spells in general to have to potential to win the game...in my deck a Wave for X=6+ is generally going to end in a win that Same turn. Modern unfortunately for us is too fast to give an opponent an additional thrn after we tap out. Of course haste enablers can change this; but that requires adding another card to the deck to make it run efficiently.
Having said this, I am interested to see how the card plays/how quickly it can get out of hand.
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I’ll be testing a black splash version of my deck tonight with Assassin’s Trophy in the board (and possibly one main).
The pressure from the SLC definitely helps keep the opponent on the back foot while you build towards a lethal board. Getting stuck on green mana when you need 3 for SLC does happen, but infrequently enough that I still think the card is strong enough on its own merit to include 4x. I wouldn't question anyone for dropping to 3 but I still want to keep at least 3. It was my highest damage dealer on the night and forced my opponents to make bad trades to get it off the table. Plopping another one down right after they dealt with one was backbreaking. I never tutored for or cast Craterhoof.
As for the Witness, I just made a conscious decision when I bought the deck to go the Eternal-Command route instead of BTE-Pact b/c I expected to be playing more grindy decks. Witness was invaluable for me in the Wildfire matchup, where I cast & rebought Fracturing Gust 3x. And having the different modes of Primal Command is super flexible. I used every mode at least once- +7 life vs Wildfire/Burn, Bounce noncreature vs pretty much everything, shuffle graveyard vs the Abzan deck who had Grim Flayer for Delirium, and search for creature just about every time.
Yeah, I really love SLC too, my opponent is forced to removal him saving the real threats, it is a staple for Green Devotion IMO.
Agreed, Primal Command is very strong against the most common decks, I just feel that I can't cast it sometimes.
Another idea is Trinisphere, if you change Scooze and another thing for 2 copies, looks very strong too. This can slow almost all the actual meta without hurt your list (maybe just Oath).
Lack of evasion really hurts too. It’s a no-go for me due to high amount of Enchantment, Walker, and Waves...but I would t think someone playing a heavy-creature deck was absolutely nuts for trying it out.
Super interesting card though. I like to see some of these more “deep” or “odd” designs at mythic. I think the “generally good” or constructed cards should be uncommon or rare (depending on their limited effect) and mythic should encompass the wackier designs like this. Definitely has high power level; but not sure the sum of abilities are enough for most Devotion decks (unless they are very Creature-heavy which can be done).
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I quite like Goblin Cratermaker. Creature-based removal of small creatures and a way to deal with artifacts, kci, eldrazi, and some Tron permanents...May try it in my abrade slots (as Oath can grab it).
Its been a while since I've seen "Any player may activate this ability" on a card. Clever Design. Everyone got a reason to use the ability.
Anyways, i think about: Obstinate Baloth and Loxodon Smiter. Both had seen plays in Modern, but not that much. If Jund goes big again i would boarding the Ferox.
Goblin Cratermaker, It blows up Eldrazi, it blows up Tron parts, it blows up Aether Vial. It blows up Ensnaring Bridge. It blows up Cranial Plating. It blows up swords. It blows up all kinds of stuff. It's not the best, but it's very good at being a utility goblin. It might see main boards as creature hate and artifact hate. Pretty good for a uncommon.
I'm not sure it will find a home in Green Devotion or Stompy, since it's four devotion and a bit awkward, but it's perhaps there is some Hexproof Stompy tribal deck that this card can bring together.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Beast Whisperer is a card I will 100% play/test. I know it dies to bolt...but it has everything I love in a card (Creature with TONS of potential card draw!!!). Likely better in Elves...but 4-CMC is really better for us than them.
It is a 4-drop with no immediate effect and only a 2/3...so in reality it probably is not strong enough to see Modern play (that is a LOT of strikes against it)...but I am going to try it anyways
I am at least going to try it and give it my all. I’m a sucker for permanent-based card draw (especially creatures) and most of my Devotion decks are play like combo decks...so this MAY have a shot. It’s the cheapest this effect has ever been printed; but I’ve played multiple 4-drops in my experience with Devotion and have found that 90% of the time if the card has no immediate effect...it simply is not good enough (most “engines” really need to be 3-cmc or less).
Nevertheless, I love the card and hope it plays better than I assume it will (as I REALLY want to run at least 1 in my deck )
Sometimes you can play Garruk, untap lands and hold up a Mystic Snake. Then each turn you can do the same; activate Garruk, cast spells and hold up mana for Snake, on your turn and their turn. Soon enough you'll kill them with beaters or an overrun.
And yes, this deck still makes use of the go-big devotion plan, it's resilient and disruptive and value-filled but has potential to go way over the top. It might be slower, but it allows me to to setup up while disrupting my opponent.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I will still be keeping it in my "Green Box" of cards that have potential to be busted. My testing was EXTREMELY limited, and the deck I put it in was not the right deck for it (it needs to be much more creature centric). I did, however, want to at least provide what I have noticed about the card thus far. I do think if the meta does move more towards Jund that being killed by Bolt could be a very large issue as well. 4-CMC creatures are not what they once were (as avoiding Decay won't be as important with the addition of Assassin's Trophy to the meta, and it can still die to a "triggered" Fatal Push.
I will test it some more where I can and let people know how it plays. Thus far, I'm not sure this set has much for us main board...but I already ordered a playset of Assassin's Trophy as a removal spell for the board (and I do find Goblin Cratermaker an option for us in the "Abrade" slot as well...)
Beast Whisperer seems too expensive, I still like COurser more. And I don't think Elves wants it either, but I could be wrong about that.
I really wish WOTC would stop printing cards that are good vs. Nykthos. Trophy is yet another way to hurt us. Though when we play against B/x fair decks like Jund or The Rock, I'm not on the Nykthos plan a lot of the time anyways. Having them destroy it and ramping us, could actually be an advantage. It does deal with Garruk which is annoying.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
So this is going in my list. It fills the "ad hoc" slot (that I was trying the other cards in). Mine is a walker list with Eternal Witness and two copies of Nissa, Vital Force (plenty of ways to recur the permanent from her +1...so the synergy is really strong. I always wanted a "removal on a stick" card at 4 or less...so with her and Acidic Slime I'm good.
Here is the new list:
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Eternal Witness
2x Acidic Slime
1x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
2x Cloudstone Curio
Planeswalker (7)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Vraska, Golgari Queen
2x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Genesis Wave
1x Assassin's Trophy
Lands (21)
7x Green Fetch Land
6x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Horizon Canopy
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
The board has changed significantly (due to change in colors) and I will post it later upon testing at least 20 matches. I do think the color change is warranted given Assasin's Trophy potential...and at that point, Xenagos just isn't needed.
Not entirely certain of the Assassin's trophy main...but I do like the ability to have a few answers in the main between it and Vraska.
LOL every time a green card is spoiled you just shove it in your deck.
What's your win percentage vs. the current Modern top tier meta?
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I love trying out new cards...in the end though; only a few are considered for my particular list. I provide HONEST opinions about how cards play out and the VAST majority don’t make the cut. Also, most of the cards I discuss, I don’t discuss in their relationship to my specific deck. My deck (Walker Devotion) doesn’t change much set to set.
I try to discuss playtesting cards and if they are even powerful enough with the “general” Green Devotion cards to continue testing. I try many out in their relationship to “Traditional” green Devotion and/or how they play in different Devotion decks (Pact decks, Traditional/Command decks, Tooth and Nail, and Walker Devotion) etc). I actually have five different Devotion decks built that i test cards in.
That’s the reason why I haven’t actually provided an “updated” list of my deck until today (despite discussing Knullhide, Beast Whisperer, and Assassin’s Trophy). In reality, even Assassin’s Trophy likely is just a really good sideboard card for us...but it does a lot for me in terms of opening up slots on my board (as you don’t have to run artifact hate, land hate, Enchantment hate, creature hate, etc...it hits them all!
Vraska, however, likely will play well in my Walker Devotion deck that I actually play. I am fairly confident of that even without testing. This is why I posted it. She is a 4-drop (important number) with good synergy (graveyard and card draw) and can answer a lot of problem permanents. I’ve said it a million times in the past; but even if the deck can go “oops I win” on turn 3-4 (which mine can); Green Devotion decks in general have to have interaction to make it in Modern (we are not consistently fast enough to beat the most linear decks). Your recent Flash lists follow this.
In truth, my deck list has been relatively similar for years...its a core of Elf, Bird, Sprawl, Visionary, Witness, Oath, Garruk, Nissa, Curio, and either Wave or Hydra depending on the meta (with generally 6-8 “variable” slots for interactive/meta specific cards). As was said before my last posting, “...it it just the normal Curdbros Walker deck?” To which I replied “pretty much”
I have posted fun “ideas” in the past (+1/+1 counters matter, Elf Devotion, etc.) but those we’re more “fun ideas” than what I would call “my” deck (what I would bring to a tournament). Some were surprisingly strong; but I try to point out where their weaknesses lie. In terms of playing and keeping long-standing records on; I have focused heavily on Walker Devotion (one Curio/Combo Version and one non-combo that essentially changes out Curios and 1-2 other cards)
Thus far, there are a total of two cards I would actively consider (Vraska and Assassin’s Trophy) in my own deck. But yes, it is true that I try pretty much every viable Planeswalker that can either develop card advantage or deal with problem permanents (or in the best case both).
I think Knullhide is a really cool design and that Beast Whisperer was a REALLY fun card (although I didn’t think would make it...which it didn’t in testing). This is the first list I’ve posted of my own list since GRN spoilers started and I’ve changed a total of two Cards in my list.
I do, however, think it is part of my job as OP to examine new cards in their context/relation to Green Devotion (even if they are on the fringes). This doesn’t, however, mean they will make my list. Very few cards do. I can totally see how some of my prior posts seemed to indicate I examine cards only on how they would play in my Walker list.
My deck actually stays relatively similar. Don’t get me wrong...I LOVE brewing; and will post ideas on here from time to time. I would say you are the only person that provides more “idea decks” than I do! :). You’ve got Constructor Devotion, Temur Flash, and many others. Despite loving to Brew; I will always let you know if any idea has long-term viability just as you do (thus far, the only versions that have are Command decks, Pact Decks, Tooth and Nail unless the meta is very hostile to lands, and Walker Devotion).
I’ll post more tonight after I’ve tested Vraska out (and have more data on Assassin’s Trophy and it’s abilty to open up our board options)...but to answer your main question I have a lifetime match win rate of 66.3% with “Walker Devotion” against “meta” decks. I will, however, post current “meta” decks and the match up info later tonight (as match ups from 14 months ago don’t really matter now )
Holy moly, the match was insane. I ended up winning 2-1. THe last game was insane. My last turn took like 30 minutes. I ddin't think I could win, but I just tried to take the best lines, trying desperately to pull together a combo kill, and somehow after jumping through many hoops I managed to combo kill. It was perhaps the most insane Green Devotion turn I've ever taken.
It's funny how this deck doesn't have infinite dmg with a card like Ballista or Shalai or even just near infinite with Craterhoof. You can win by untapping all your lands with Nissa and and swinging with a bunch of 5/5's, as well as destroying your opponents board with Acidic slime. It seems like a Ballista could be a fine addition, but I guess it's just not necessary. Luckily my opponent was patient and he wanted to see me try to combo kill.
Definitely a lot of fun, but I'm worried many opponents will be rage quitting while I'm doing my thing.
Btw, Vraska was good. Killed Trackers and sacrificed my useless dorks or a visionary which I could just rebuy.
Still, while Walker devotion is a sweet deck, I'm afraid it doesn't have enough interaction to be competitive. Without interactions you can't beat the combo decks or HUmans. And I imagine this deck will struggle with U/W control.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Haha! I can't tell you how hard it has been to get fast enough with playing the deck on MTGO I'm still practicing with my friends and brother in matches every chance I get just to feel omfortable enough with the clicks so I can play it in competitive leagues/tournaments (as I really honestly don't want people to have a "feel bad" moment like people do against Eggs, KCI, etc.)
You are right about some form of direct damage being great. Xenagos can make infinite 2/2 hasters, and like you said, Nissa makes enough damage 99% of the time...but it is nice indeed. I took out Ballista when I put Wave in (switched it for polukranos due to the "nombo") as yout "technically" win the game when you "go off" (as even without Xenagos you can destroy their entire board and create enough hastey creatures to kill them unless they have over + 70+ life without fear of decking yourself)...
I know it is an odd deck to play...that's generally why I tell new players to focus on Pact lists, Command lists, etc. despite my preference for playing the list (that and those lists have a more documented history of success in competitive tournaments).
Yeah...it would be great if they could figure out how to make a "show a loop" function where after you have shown the loop you can just say "do this 20 times" (as you do in paper). Someday hopefully they will be able to do so...for the time being I've gotten very good at hot keys and 1 and 2 for yes and no
I'm glad Vraska worked out. I'm excited to give her a try in a heavy amount of matches.
There are tough match ups for sure (Storm, Infect, Tron if on the draw twice.... I haven't found Humans to be one of them yet; but that may be just my experience with the deck. For me, rather than having main-deck interaction for the worst match ups; I tend to focus more board for those. Between Acidic Slime, Polukranos, Vraska, and one Removal Spell (sometimes Beast Within, sometimes Path, sometimes bolt or abrade...now Assassin's trophy) I feel like I've "maxed" on main deck interaction without hurting the combo nature of the deck. Having said that, this means that the board has to be entirely interactive.
Control, suprisingly, has not been a tough match up. I keep thinking it will be; and keep assuming that the more I play it the more the numbers will invert...but every time I play it I still win a majority of matches...I think it is due to the fact that Control struggles with a many different permanents and with decks that just keep throwing things at them. I haven't determined the exact reason for my U/W Control match up to be "positive" yet...Genesis Hydra helps too.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Yeah...you are right. If it ever became a known quantity; pretty much once you hit the combo people would just scoop...that would be nice I don't know if it will ever get to a point of being known at all (unless I start playing competitive's and getting 5-0's to get it posted by someone way more important than me!). Todd Stevens may play it if I asked; but I wouldn't want to do that to him. Ha! I worry so much about "feel bad" moments that I try often to make the deck without the combo...but it just doesn't seem as good (although I really like the non-combo version with Nissa Steward of Elements and Jace...it is SO overwhelming....maybe I should just make a Sultai one without the oombo).
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that against a walker list, all the removal and board wipes in Control decks are dead against planeswalkers, and their counterspells can't stop planewalker activations so you still manage to keep a board presence and grind out advantage that they just can't interact with very easily.