I did! It was SUPER interesting (as he makes some really interesting points about Bloodbraid Elf in Modern, discusses Devotion and how to play it, etc.)
LordDarkview will be happy to know he is a big fan of Primal Command
You know I haven't been on Command for almost a year right? Then again, I'd love an opportunity to give it some reconsideration.
The list he discusses in terms of Devotion looks like this:
...
Okay, this list is interesting. I was feeling dismissive this morning, but I'm taking another look here. Let's see what we have.
- typical 21 lands
- ramp set of 4 Elf, 4 Sprawl, 4 Garruk, 2 Birds
- loop set of 3 Command and 3 Witness
- small, 4-card toolbox of Behemoth, Titan, Sage, and Polukranos
- fast punching power provided by 15 cards: BTEs, Geists, SLCs, and BBEs
- an SB that looks speced to beat control
I've been playing more Legacy lately, so my Modern game might be a bit rusty. However, I think this is actually a reasonable way to approach the current environment. Against some decks, you can just throw beaters at them until they lose. This build also has the potential to go absurdly fast if you get either the Sprawl + Elf or double BTE + Nykthos draws leading into either BTE or Garruk and SLC. Backed up by the disruptive power of Command, it seems like a good blend.
The big problem that strikes me with this list is the risk of inconsistency. A draw with Forest and Nykthos where your first turn Elf gets Bolted has a substantial risk of going nowhere due to the double- and triple-G requirements on some cards. I haven't run analysis yet, but I think this is going to be an issue in somewhere around 25% of games. Fixing this is going to be difficult. I'm trying to figure out whether it's better to soak up the inconsistency, or pull some of the mediocre top-end stuff in order to add something that will smooth out the casting a but more (like Oath of Nissa, which risks diluting the BBE hits).
I've played a good amount of BBE devotion (though not recently), and it is indeed good with Steel Leaf Champion. I found it super amazing against Jund and Mardu Pyro type decks, however against combo decks and Hollow One it wasn't super hot. Definitely a great card though. Really nice with Jadelight Ranger as well.
Overall I see it better in a more Stompy devotion list for sure though.
I still just think that Witness loop is weak in this agressive shell. Looks like the weakest part of the deck, you can't win like a Craterhoof and you can't be fast like BBE.
I will always consider you the Command Champion in my heart Even if you don't play it...
I totally agree with you on the fixing too. It can be REALLY hard to cast the 3-CMC cards like Steel Leaf when you are running Nykthos and Kessig Wolf Run. On paper it doesn't seem like a big deal...but it often is difficult.
Right now, the Walker Combo has been serving me well...so I don't see a huge incentive to change just yet. It was just a thought as to whether we could be a "better" shell for the Resto/Kiki Combo. Just a random thought. I like to post random thoughts every once and a while just to present potential topics of discussion.
I'm gonna be drilling with the AS list to take to a team event. I've made all of two changes: one is the addition of Huntsmaster over the single Command, and the other is running either Alpine Moons or Detention Spheres in the SB over Blood Moon (because only one person on the team can play Blood Moon and they called dibs). Unless Huntsmaster performs amazingly, I anticipate replacing it with a Garruk Relentless and then pulling a Nissa for a Courser.
I think there is still potentially a good Eternal Command deck out there. The problem is that the format is extremely fast right now, and there isn't a lot of room between the hyper-aggro and -combo, and the slower UWx and Tron decks.
I'm gonna be drilling with the AS list to take to a team event. I've made all of two changes: one is the addition of Huntsmaster over the single Command, and the other is running either Alpine Moons or Detention Spheres in the SB over Blood Moon (because only one person on the team can play Blood Moon and they called dibs). Unless Huntsmaster performs amazingly, I anticipate replacing it with a Garruk Relentless and then pulling a Nissa for a Courser.
I think there is still potentially a good Eternal Command deck out there. The problem is that the format is extremely fast right now, and there isn't a lot of room between the hyper-aggro and -combo, and the slower UWx and Tron decks.
Good luck! I honestly really prefer the idea of Garruk Relentless over even Huntmaster. Just my two cents though.
Huntsmaster is better when it works, and is tutorable. Garruk Relentless is more reliable, and is a tutor. I don't like being too PW-heavy though, so I'd likely do a simultaneous swap of Nissa for Courser as I mentioned, to stay at the same number of PWs and to provide another source of incidental lifegain.
Huntmaster is a blue card. It's only good in Temur where you can reliably flip it almost every turn. It's actually insane in a blue countermagic deck, but elswhere, it's pretty lackluster.
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Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I find the hard part about Huntmaster is not getting a 2-spell turn: Oaths and Pacts make that pretty easy. The hard part is getting a 0-spell turn to do the initial flip: any deck with Instants can prevent that from happening. This is making me increasingly willing to try -1 Huntmaster, -1 Nissa, +1 Garruk R., +1 Courser. It will be unfortunate to lose the MB ability to just blast a creature, but that wasn't working out with Huntmaster anyway.
I agree on Wolfbriar. It has ended a lot of games for me. Having what works similar to an X-spell that can be tutored and/or hit by Oath, etc. is quite powerful too. I’ve been really impressed with Wolfbriar. It doesn’t win on the same turn (unless you have a haste-enabler) which can rarely be an issue against fast combo...but 9 times out of 10 that I cast Wolfbriar for a kicker of 3 or more the game ends on the next turn.
It is great with Garruk Wildspeaker because it gives bodies to both protect and overrun. I’m currently playing 1 copy (my past deck played up to 3; but 2 was really enough and really one copy is likely best). One copy alllws it to be powerful when need be but not too “fell bad” if it has to be cast without kicker (as even a kicker for 1 is fine).
I have to second that about Huntmaster, he is insane value if he happens to work, but most of the times he is killed, or just never flips. In all my tests I did with Anthonys list the best 4 drop has been Wolfbriar Elemental, that card is just soo insane with Garruk, a Wolfbrair for 7 or 8 usually ends the game next turn, or gives you some extra time to recover.
I am actually pretty excited to try Ross list, and splashing a bit of blue for Spell Pierce, Stubborn Denial or something of the sorts. I have been playing a lot of Amulet Titan latelly and I found out Spell Pierce to be such a good card. Running 3 in the sideboard could be of great help in increasing our Control Matchups, Tron, etc. Maybe unified Will makes more sense for us.
Once again, it might be a good idea to find some space in the list for a Woodland Bellower and not playing Hornet Queen, at least in the sideboard makes me a bit sad. I only have 2 Bloodbraid Elfs so I will give it a try with those 2 in their place.
Heres a quick decklist I put together:
I like the idea of Oath in this Ross list, chooising a card can be very intersting. I have my doubts with Visionary in this slot, he can be a chump block (I hate Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow) and even attack with Craterhoof, really nice card with BBE and BTE, but I can't "choose" my draw.
I still thinking about the Witness loop, looks unnecessary and slow in this build, but I must test.
This week I have to test another version of Gigantosarus, but in the next maybe I will try something like this:
I would not run BTE without Visionary or Ooze, she can't cast Strangleroot or STC without Nykthos.
Also I guess that I will miss Relic/Ooze and Baloth in the sideboard, but I don't know how to put they in.
I have never liked huntmaster. Arlin Kord is worth considering if you're in the market for a grindy 4-drop. At the very least you get a wolf token and she soaks up some damage/removal. Unchecked she'll take over the game with wolf - bolt - wolf.
Wolfbriar is _great_ in the deck, but it's more of a scalable top end that can be cast for four in a pinch... Fills a different role, imo.
I agree that Wolfbriar is a great card, but it's more valuable as a mana-outlet for winning than a grindy card. Arlinn Kord is interesting; I hadn't considered her, but she's somewhere between a Garruk Relentless and a Huntmaster of the Fells. This is definitely a card I should be giving more thought.
The meta shift recently has made Hunts less efficient so yea cutting him seems correct. It makes me sad as I love huntmaster but its just not his time. i am currently testing Thrashing brontodon in his slot as a way to handle enchantments and artifacts when needed as he makes a decent beater if his sac ability isn't needed.
I should note I have run brontodon off and on for a few weeks now and Im currntly liking him as a way to handle the few decks that he is truly needed for and as a one of he is tutorable via primal command but doesnt have to get naturally drawn too often. that is to say while naturally drawing him isn't terrible as he is a base 3/4 for 3 beater it isn't ideal to our game plan.
Last week Armasaur was meh, but today was a machine, won me games. I don't know how I feel about him yet.
BBE + SLC/Visionary belong to this deck, so powerful.
I guess that I need Bonfire in the board here too.
Next week I will try that list from last page based on Ross list.
Haven't been playing much devotion recently but I always keep reading the development you guys make, pretty cool stuff.
Seeing SLC being used makes Rhonas the Indomitable that much more appealing. Like a second Kessig Wolf Run on a Stick.
Good idea!
I can see 1of helping the deck, I will try this instead Domri or Command (other list). Maybe we can even cut Kessig off, this helps that Kessig+Elf opening hands.
We have extra mana most part of the time and Rhonas can target more than one creature in the same turn.
I've been playing a mono green version (kinda budget) of this deck, with some success. Now I want to try a red splash (the main reason for that is the ability to deal with creatures). Some questions/considerations:
1) Domri Rade runs fine with 28 creatures?
2) I don't really like Bloodbraid Elf in this deck. Unlike Ponza or other RG decks, I don't think it adds much to the strategy.
3) Wistful Selkie vs Elvish Visionary? I guess I prefer more devotion despite the occasional awkwardness with Emissary.
4) Birds of Paradise is very good. I wouldn't run less than 4.
5) Runic Armasaur is pulling weight? I've seen some lists running multiple, but I can't see a reason behind it.
I have been playing this list online with some sucess, I wanted to give collected company a try again with Rhonas and Steel Leaf Champion. Its pretty explossive and has some game against control, deck feels fun to play but im pretty sure the sideboard needs a lot of work, Primal Command is fun in the list, I like the timewalk effect it has but I might cut 1 in favour of an Acidic Slime, Primal Command -> Eternal Witness into next Turn Primal Command fetching an Acidic Slime is pretty devastating.
SLCs are amazing, Rhonas is a pretty powerfull mana sink and so is Duskwatch. Duskwatch + Tracker pretty much assured that I always had cards to play, they are such a powerfull card draw engine. Ballista is there as a mana sink to finish off some matches, and its a very goo thread when you have a ton of mana.
Turn 2 CoCo is pretty devastating, specially if you manage to hit 1 SLC or a Tracker that goes unaswered.
I've been playing a mono green version (kinda budget) of this deck, with some success. Now I want to try a red splash (the main reason for that is the ability to deal with creatures). Some questions/considerations:
1) Domri Rade runs fine with 28 creatures?
2) I don't really like Bloodbraid Elf in this deck. Unlike Ponza or other RG decks, I don't think it adds much to the strategy.
3) Wistful Selkie vs Elvish Visionary? I guess I prefer more devotion despite the occasional awkwardness with Emissary.
4) Birds of Paradise is very good. I wouldn't run less than 4.
5) Runic Armasaur is pulling weight? I've seen some lists running multiple, but I can't see a reason behind it.
1) Never saw Domri in the game, haha.
2) BBE turn 2 into SLC wins games, or BBE into BTE + Visionary from hand is incredible. She puts a lot of pressure in the battlefield and also digs for sideboard cards.
3) I like Visionary, my hand is never empty. If your Arbor Elf os bolted, you still have turn 2 Visionary draw.
4) I play 1-2 Birds just because BBE hits.
5) Sometimes he is amazing, sometimes not, need more tests.
Just my 2cents.
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-1 Witness
-1 Sage
-1 Land (?)
+3 Visionary
I can't test this list yet, but looks intersting, very similar with the Gigantosarus, but less draw engine.
You know I haven't been on Command for almost a year right? Then again, I'd love an opportunity to give it some reconsideration.
Okay, this list is interesting. I was feeling dismissive this morning, but I'm taking another look here. Let's see what we have.
- typical 21 lands
- ramp set of 4 Elf, 4 Sprawl, 4 Garruk, 2 Birds
- loop set of 3 Command and 3 Witness
- small, 4-card toolbox of Behemoth, Titan, Sage, and Polukranos
- fast punching power provided by 15 cards: BTEs, Geists, SLCs, and BBEs
- an SB that looks speced to beat control
I've been playing more Legacy lately, so my Modern game might be a bit rusty. However, I think this is actually a reasonable way to approach the current environment. Against some decks, you can just throw beaters at them until they lose. This build also has the potential to go absurdly fast if you get either the Sprawl + Elf or double BTE + Nykthos draws leading into either BTE or Garruk and SLC. Backed up by the disruptive power of Command, it seems like a good blend.
The big problem that strikes me with this list is the risk of inconsistency. A draw with Forest and Nykthos where your first turn Elf gets Bolted has a substantial risk of going nowhere due to the double- and triple-G requirements on some cards. I haven't run analysis yet, but I think this is going to be an issue in somewhere around 25% of games. Fixing this is going to be difficult. I'm trying to figure out whether it's better to soak up the inconsistency, or pull some of the mediocre top-end stuff in order to add something that will smooth out the casting a but more (like Oath of Nissa, which risks diluting the BBE hits).
Either way, this is certainly food for thought.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Overall I see it better in a more Stompy devotion list for sure though.
I will always consider you the Command Champion in my heart Even if you don't play it...
I totally agree with you on the fixing too. It can be REALLY hard to cast the 3-CMC cards like Steel Leaf when you are running Nykthos and Kessig Wolf Run. On paper it doesn't seem like a big deal...but it often is difficult.
Random Thought About Combo
I tend to play the deck more as a Combo deck than an Aggro deck or even a "Toolbox" deck. I was thinking the other day if I could possibly play the Restoration Angel + Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo at the top end. Creature based combos are strong in the deck because of cards like Oath of Nissa, Eldritch Evolution, Primal Command, Chord of Calling and multiple planeswalkers that search for creatures.
Right now, the Walker Combo has been serving me well...so I don't see a huge incentive to change just yet. It was just a thought as to whether we could be a "better" shell for the Resto/Kiki Combo. Just a random thought. I like to post random thoughts every once and a while just to present potential topics of discussion.
I think there is still potentially a good Eternal Command deck out there. The problem is that the format is extremely fast right now, and there isn't a lot of room between the hyper-aggro and -combo, and the slower UWx and Tron decks.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Good luck! I honestly really prefer the idea of Garruk Relentless over even Huntmaster. Just my two cents though.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
It is great with Garruk Wildspeaker because it gives bodies to both protect and overrun. I’m currently playing 1 copy (my past deck played up to 3; but 2 was really enough and really one copy is likely best). One copy alllws it to be powerful when need be but not too “fell bad” if it has to be cast without kicker (as even a kicker for 1 is fine).
I like the idea of Oath in this Ross list, chooising a card can be very intersting. I have my doubts with Visionary in this slot, he can be a chump block (I hate Gurmag Angler and Death's Shadow) and even attack with Craterhoof, really nice card with BBE and BTE, but I can't "choose" my draw.
I still thinking about the Witness loop, looks unnecessary and slow in this build, but I must test.
This week I have to test another version of Gigantosarus, but in the next maybe I will try something like this:
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Burning-Tree Emissary
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Steel Leaf Champion
3 Strangleroot Geist
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Primal Command
3 Blood Moon
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Chameleon Colossus
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Abrade
1 Choke
1 Reclamation Sage
I would not run BTE without Visionary or Ooze, she can't cast Strangleroot or STC without Nykthos.
Also I guess that I will miss Relic/Ooze and Baloth in the sideboard, but I don't know how to put they in.
Wolfbriar is _great_ in the deck, but it's more of a scalable top end that can be cast for four in a pinch... Fills a different role, imo.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I should note I have run brontodon off and on for a few weeks now and Im currntly liking him as a way to handle the few decks that he is truly needed for and as a one of he is tutorable via primal command but doesnt have to get naturally drawn too often. that is to say while naturally drawing him isn't terrible as he is a base 3/4 for 3 beater it isn't ideal to our game plan.
3-0-1 today.
Jund (2-1)
Humans (1-1)
RG Ponza (2-1)
Burn (2-0)
I had a really nice hand game 3 against Humans, probably would win that, but the other 2 games were very intense.
List:
7 Forest
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Windswept Heath
2 Runic Armasaur
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Arbor Elf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Gigantosaurus
1 Acidic Slime
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abrade
2 Natural State
3 Blood Moon
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Choke
Last week Armasaur was meh, but today was a machine, won me games. I don't know how I feel about him yet.
BBE + SLC/Visionary belong to this deck, so powerful.
I guess that I need Bonfire in the board here too.
Next week I will try that list from last page based on Ross list.
Seeing SLC being used makes Rhonas the Indomitable that much more appealing. Like a second Kessig Wolf Run on a Stick.
Good idea!
I can see 1of helping the deck, I will try this instead Domri or Command (other list). Maybe we can even cut Kessig off, this helps that Kessig+Elf opening hands.
We have extra mana most part of the time and Rhonas can target more than one creature in the same turn.
1) Domri Rade runs fine with 28 creatures?
2) I don't really like Bloodbraid Elf in this deck. Unlike Ponza or other RG decks, I don't think it adds much to the strategy.
3) Wistful Selkie vs Elvish Visionary? I guess I prefer more devotion despite the occasional awkwardness with Emissary.
4) Birds of Paradise is very good. I wouldn't run less than 4.
5) Runic Armasaur is pulling weight? I've seen some lists running multiple, but I can't see a reason behind it.
7 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
4 Nyktos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures [28]
4 Arbor Elf
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Steel Leaf Champion
2 Eternal Witness
2 Wistful Selkie
1 Primeval Titan
1 Gigantosaurus
1 Runic Armasaur
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Thrashing Brontodon
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Genesis Wave
2 Primal Command
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Domri Rade
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Abrade
2 Damping Sphere
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrashing Brontodon
1 Nylea's Disciple
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Choke
I like Company, but with all this non hits...even in BG Elves my Company failed, but it's something to test.
1) Never saw Domri in the game, haha.
2) BBE turn 2 into SLC wins games, or BBE into BTE + Visionary from hand is incredible. She puts a lot of pressure in the battlefield and also digs for sideboard cards.
3) I like Visionary, my hand is never empty. If your Arbor Elf os bolted, you still have turn 2 Visionary draw.
4) I play 1-2 Birds just because BBE hits.
5) Sometimes he is amazing, sometimes not, need more tests.
Just my 2cents.