The Elder Combo list now plays Pact instead of Chord (as the combo requires a mana-sink and the more you can save in the tutor the better)...wanted to see how it tests.
I’ve also tried a few different cards in the counters matter deck (funnily enough...Herald of Secret Streams may actually be the best “counters payoff” card :). Still have a lot to test. Want to play/try Nissa, Voice of Zendikar to make everyone unblockable (plus it’s just a good 3-drop) so the list looks a little different then before. I’ll post it tonight after some more games.
The Elder Combo list now plays Pact instead of Chord (as the combo requires a mana-sink and the more you can save in the tutor the better).
I’ve also tried a few different cards in the counters matter deck (funnily enough...Herald of Secret Streams may actually be the best “counters payoff” card :). Still have a lot to test. Want to play Nissa, Voice of Zendikar so the list looks a little different then before. I’ll post it tonight after some more games.
The cards I've looked at so far that might work have been in Bant colours. Herald is one of the cards I saw that was decent for evasion with the other being Abzan Falconer.
The Elder Combo list now plays Pact instead of Chord (as the combo requires a mana-sink and the more you can save in the tutor the better).
I’ve also tried a few different cards in the counters matter deck (funnily enough...Herald of Secret Streams may actually be the best “counters payoff” card :). Still have a lot to test. Want to play Nissa, Voice of Zendikar so the list looks a little different then before. I’ll post it tonight after some more games.
The cards I've looked at so far that might work have been in Bant colours. Herald is one of the cards I saw that was decent for evasion with the other being Abzan Falconer.
Edited:
I'm currently 20-1 with Plus or Minus Devotion lol. Not sure how. I've played against a few non-tier decks though. The one deck I lost to was a janky brew too.
-1 Teeg (since it shuts down Chord in addition to Teeg) - unsure about this
+1 Chameleon Colloussus (I saw a lot of Death's Shadow on SCG Colombus stream)
Possible Changes:
I'd really like to add a Duskwatch Recruiter to have a definite CHordable wincon, but I don't want to cut anything (maybe Courser ).
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Jadelight seems very good, but it's competing with some good 3-drop mainly Courser. I think that it could shine in a fast deck that wants to hit specific cards fast. Tony Spyrzack or w/e his name is that almost top 8'd SCG Columbus has a hyper-speed version of Green Devotion and I could see Jadelight being more viable in a deck where you just want to draw your key cards as fast as possible. Also, I know someone on here has been trying to get Delirium to work and Jadelight although not great at triggering Delirium, is a decent option for that deck.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
@Rendroc
How is the deck relative to the older Devoted + Primal Command decks from the fall? Does the Quillspike add any new play patterns? Do you see any benefit to using Summoners Pact since he is green?
Well, I only play Quillspike since it's good with Druid AND Finks. After an opponent expends removal or uses a Wrath, negating their work can be backbreaking, and Quillspike can also get big himself (infinite with Druid). I'm not as big of a fan of the Command decks because the Primal Command plus Witness lock is not always good and Command is 5 mana. With Druid, it means that I can more often get a bigger Ballista off early. I'm running Chord so I can get Vizier, but also it makes the sideboard better and it's a good card if you're producing a lot of mana consistently.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Jadelight seemed promising, as did Hadana's Climb. Did they just underperform?
Not at all. I just try out different cards as I test and tune to make sure I tried everything under a certain archetype. I currently kind of see it as “Hadana’s Climb vs. Herald” and “Tireless Tracker vs. Jadelight Ranger”...one of the two is more appropriate in their given “slot” (the “counter payoff” and the “Counter-value creature” slots respectively.
I traditionally just update decks until I’ve played enough to feel confident and comfortable...then in the final post I tend to say “this is the Set List” and talk about how no more changes (outside of tiny meta things, etc.) are expected/needed.
There’s every possibility that one or both end up in the deck (at this point Hadana’s Climb is something I kinda miss ). I’ll keep you updated immediately when I have a good grasp on what cards play the best together (and why I think so).
______
I have noticed that the Interaction with Garruk Primal Hunter and both Reverent Hunter and Genesis Hydra is really strong (draws a ton of cards and often allows you to hit means of untapping Nykthos to keep going).
Many of you that have been on here know I tried this interaction a long time ago (I’ve been trying to get Reverent Hunter and/or Genesis Hydra to work for years 😡); but with the new planes walker legend rule and a few of the new cards...it may finally have enough to be viable. We’ll see. Can’t know without trying.
Well, I only play Quillspike since it's good with Druid AND Finks. After an opponent expends removal or uses a Wrath, negating their work can be backbreaking, and Quillspike can also get big himself (infinite with Druid). I'm not as big of a fan of the Command decks because the Primal Command plus Witness lock is not always good and Command is 5 mana. With Druid, it means that I can more often get a bigger Ballista off early. I'm running Chord so I can get Vizier, but also it makes the sideboard better and it's a good card if you're producing a lot of mana consistently.
I can vouch for a lot of what he said here. My first Devoted Druid List was a non-Command list that utilized Chord (I’ll Go back and cite the page when I find it). It’s great because literally if you have Druid out and hit turn three you can just tap all three mana, tap/untap/tap Devited Druid and Chord for Vizier! I won a TON of games just doing that and it was fast when it worked. The ONLY downside I found (and this is with my version..I’m not saying Rendroc’s has the same issue) was that I didn’t have the card draw and resiliency I like. I have no doubt this can be improved on though; and can’t speak for Rendroc’s list as I haven’t played his 75. I also didn’t play Quillspike (but I think it works in his list because of the added interaction with Kitchen Finks).
And Chord Boards are some of the best we can run...gives you multiple effective copies of hoser creatures and fits your main game-plan anyways.
What do people think about just playing an Ooze instead of Ruric Thar? I think Ooze has a similar purpose but might be the better card. I've swapped it for Ruric Thar in both my decks for now.
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LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
So yeah, Jadelight is nowhere near the power level of Courser.
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Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Jadelight seemed promising, as did Hadana's Climb. Did they just underperform?
______
I have noticed that the Interaction with Garruk Primal Hunter and both Reverent Hunter and Genesis Hydra is really strong (draws a ton of cards and often allows you to hit means of untapping Nykthos to keep going).
Many of you that have been on here know I tried this interaction a long time ago (I’ve been trying to get Reverent Hunter and/or Genesis Hydra to work for years 😡); but with the new planes walker legend rule and a few of the new cards...it may finally have enough to be viable. We’ll see. Can’t know without trying.
I've had similar but very rewarding card draw off of a hydra, ulvenwald hydra, certainly isn't a genesis hydra but it fetches me nyxthos and is my choice for reach. couple games where I've used Primal hunters ability, i've had my hydra at 7-10 power.
on a typical garruk, primal hunter for the draw ability Rhonas the Indomitable has been my more frequent and best value for it to net more than 3 cards in a typical situation where i can use it.
So yeah, Jadelight is nowhere near the power level of Courser.
Over a longer game, Courser is absolutely more value (and has the stats to block and is out of bolt range). I would say most decks will want to play Courser first. Jadelight is a very different card from Courser. You get immediate value out of it and it is far more aggressive of a card. I found myself attacking with it a lot.
The only issue I had with it when I played it in my first list (the Devoted Elder Combo) was that I had too many 1-2 toughness creatures. i was "turning on" things that could ping, cheap board wipes, Elecrolyze, etc. With as much Jeskai as has been running around; it is important that our creatures outclass this kind of 2-for-1 or more removal.
Here is Anthony Skrzypczak's deck from the SCG open. Arbor Colossus being Arbor Elf of course.
So he's not running Garruk Relentless anymore, and in its place he has a 3rd Birds of Paradise and a singleton Primal Command. I don't know if I agree with that decision: while Relentless is definitely more situational, having more MD creature removal has a lot of value. I probably would have ran a Dragonlord Atarka over the Command, with this build.
I read upthread that he got beat by Humans, which is a shame. I look at his SB and wonder about some of the selection, especially Abrade; flexible, but not especially powerful.
What do people think about just playing an Ooze instead of Ruric Thar? I think Ooze has a similar purpose but might be the better card. I've swapped it for Ruric Thar in both my decks for now.
Why not both? AS does, and I typically have both in my 75.
As someone who played a fair amount of Primal Devotion, I found that Primal Command was fantastic with Druid: Druid alone allows you can cast it on turn 3 which wins a fair number of games automatically, and enabling a search for Vizier of Remedies to complete the infinite-combo (if you have an outlet available), Eternal Witness for the soft-lock, or simply anything else which can use the extra mana (Primeval Titan + Kessig Wolf Run, Polukranos, World-Eater, Wolfbriar Elemental, Walking Ballista). Turn 3/4 wins based on having Druid + Command were fairly frequent.
I’ve also tried a few different cards in the counters matter deck (funnily enough...Herald of Secret Streams may actually be the best “counters payoff” card :). Still have a lot to test. Want to play/try Nissa, Voice of Zendikar to make everyone unblockable (plus it’s just a good 3-drop) so the list looks a little different then before. I’ll post it tonight after some more games.
The cards I've looked at so far that might work have been in Bant colours. Herald is one of the cards I saw that was decent for evasion with the other being Abzan Falconer.
Protection wise, Plaxcaster Frogling seemed interesting.
I'll continue trawling through the cards and will make my post when I'm done.
In green, there is always Bramblewood Paragon too. It's nice for the fatties. Excited to see what else you find.
I'm currently 20-1 with Plus or Minus Devotion lol. Not sure how. I've played against a few non-tier decks though. The one deck I lost to was a janky brew too.
Plus or Minus Devotion
// 24 Creature
1 Acidic Slime
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Walking Ballista
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Hornet Queen
4 Devoted Druid
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Quillspike
1 Vizier of Remedies
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Oath of Nissa
// 2 Instant
3 Chord of Calling
// 21 Land
6 Forest
2 Stomping Ground
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Temple Garden
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Aven Mindcensor
3 Blood Moon
2 Abrade
2 Bonfire of the Damned
Made some changes, not sure if they'll stick.
-1 Teeg (since it shuts down Chord in addition to Teeg) - unsure about this
+1 Chameleon Colloussus (I saw a lot of Death's Shadow on SCG Colombus stream)
Possible Changes:
I'd really like to add a Duskwatch Recruiter to have a definite CHordable wincon, but I don't want to cut anything (maybe Courser ).
Would also like to add either Selfless Spirit or Whisperwood Elemental
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Here is Anthony Skrzypczak's deck from the SCG open. Arbor Colossus being Arbor Elf of course.
Devoted Elder Combo
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
1x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Elvish Visionary
3x Carven Caryatid
2x Elder of Laurels
1x Eternal Witness
2x Acidic Slime
1x Hornet Queen
3x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (4)
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
Instant/Sorcery (2)
2x Summoners Pact
Land (20)
7x Green Fetch
6x Forest
2x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Arch of Orazca
Counters Matter Devotion
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
3x Elvish Visionary
2x Reverent Hunter
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Eternal Witness
1x Herald of Secret Streams
1x Acidic Slime
3x Walking Ballista
3x Genesis Hydra
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (10)
3x Kiora, Master of the Depths
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Garruk, Primal Hunter
2x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Instant/Sorcery (1)
1x Chord of Calling
7x Green Fetch
6x Forest
3x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Ghost Quarter
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I forgot how much i loved the “combo(s)” of Reverent Hunter and Genesis Hydra with Garruk Primal Hunter
How is the deck relative to the older Devoted + Primal Command decks from the fall? Does the Quillspike add any new play patterns? Do you see any benefit to using Summoners Pact since he is green?
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Yeah...I wrote to SCG to let them know, so they will probably fix it soon.
Not at all. I just try out different cards as I test and tune to make sure I tried everything under a certain archetype. I currently kind of see it as “Hadana’s Climb vs. Herald” and “Tireless Tracker vs. Jadelight Ranger”...one of the two is more appropriate in their given “slot” (the “counter payoff” and the “Counter-value creature” slots respectively.
I traditionally just update decks until I’ve played enough to feel confident and comfortable...then in the final post I tend to say “this is the Set List” and talk about how no more changes (outside of tiny meta things, etc.) are expected/needed.
There’s every possibility that one or both end up in the deck (at this point Hadana’s Climb is something I kinda miss ). I’ll keep you updated immediately when I have a good grasp on what cards play the best together (and why I think so).
______
I have noticed that the Interaction with Garruk Primal Hunter and both Reverent Hunter and Genesis Hydra is really strong (draws a ton of cards and often allows you to hit means of untapping Nykthos to keep going).
Many of you that have been on here know I tried this interaction a long time ago (I’ve been trying to get Reverent Hunter and/or Genesis Hydra to work for years 😡); but with the new planes walker legend rule and a few of the new cards...it may finally have enough to be viable. We’ll see. Can’t know without trying.
I can vouch for a lot of what he said here. My first Devoted Druid List was a non-Command list that utilized Chord (I’ll Go back and cite the page when I find it). It’s great because literally if you have Druid out and hit turn three you can just tap all three mana, tap/untap/tap Devited Druid and Chord for Vizier! I won a TON of games just doing that and it was fast when it worked. The ONLY downside I found (and this is with my version..I’m not saying Rendroc’s has the same issue) was that I didn’t have the card draw and resiliency I like. I have no doubt this can be improved on though; and can’t speak for Rendroc’s list as I haven’t played his 75. I also didn’t play Quillspike (but I think it works in his list because of the added interaction with Kitchen Finks).
And Chord Boards are some of the best we can run...gives you multiple effective copies of hoser creatures and fits your main game-plan anyways.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I've had similar but very rewarding card draw off of a hydra, ulvenwald hydra, certainly isn't a genesis hydra but it fetches me nyxthos and is my choice for reach. couple games where I've used Primal hunters ability, i've had my hydra at 7-10 power.
on a typical garruk, primal hunter for the draw ability Rhonas the Indomitable has been my more frequent and best value for it to net more than 3 cards in a typical situation where i can use it.
Over a longer game, Courser is absolutely more value (and has the stats to block and is out of bolt range). I would say most decks will want to play Courser first. Jadelight is a very different card from Courser. You get immediate value out of it and it is far more aggressive of a card. I found myself attacking with it a lot.
The only issue I had with it when I played it in my first list (the Devoted Elder Combo) was that I had too many 1-2 toughness creatures. i was "turning on" things that could ping, cheap board wipes, Elecrolyze, etc. With as much Jeskai as has been running around; it is important that our creatures outclass this kind of 2-for-1 or more removal.
So he's not running Garruk Relentless anymore, and in its place he has a 3rd Birds of Paradise and a singleton Primal Command. I don't know if I agree with that decision: while Relentless is definitely more situational, having more MD creature removal has a lot of value. I probably would have ran a Dragonlord Atarka over the Command, with this build.
I read upthread that he got beat by Humans, which is a shame. I look at his SB and wonder about some of the selection, especially Abrade; flexible, but not especially powerful.
Why not both? AS does, and I typically have both in my 75.
As someone who played a fair amount of Primal Devotion, I found that Primal Command was fantastic with Druid: Druid alone allows you can cast it on turn 3 which wins a fair number of games automatically, and enabling a search for Vizier of Remedies to complete the infinite-combo (if you have an outlet available), Eternal Witness for the soft-lock, or simply anything else which can use the extra mana (Primeval Titan + Kessig Wolf Run, Polukranos, World-Eater, Wolfbriar Elemental, Walking Ballista). Turn 3/4 wins based on having Druid + Command were fairly frequent.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB