Hey all. Been lurking (on this thread in particular) for ages now. Have been piloting this deck for just as long with a ton of success as I've tinkered and brewed with it over the years. Always love checking back here when new sets are out to see what crazy ideas you all have come up with to see if it sparks any inspiration for my own MGD brews.
All that said, I definitely think Jadelight is a straight swap for Selkie in decks that are already running Courser and Witness. There's a few reasons for this, but it all really comes down to synergy, CA (virtual in this case), and tempo.
Lets examine Selkie first: puts you at +1 CA, with a small beat (no response needed). That's really the extent of it. Whether you hit it on curve, as a "free" drop before a nykthos activation, CC or Wave into it--that's all Selkie is: a bit of gas and a small threat.
Jadelight is a bit more complex: I won't rehash possible options because Uyan did a good job of laying them out. But I think it's wrong to think of Explore as Scry when we have access to E-Witness *and* Courser. With Courser already in play, we can know if Jadelight is going to draw us cards and help us dig out of a potential mana pocket. With E-Witness simply existing in our decks, we can freely send cards like P-Command, Gwave, Company, etc to the grave because then they're available for our use to extend our locks or waves when we try and go off. What's more Jadelight's interactions with Oath after being Waved in are absolutely lovely, allowing you to better shape what 3 you look at and potentially send Instants/Sorceries to the grave for a Waved Ewitness to pick up. And then there's the niche interactions it has with Scooze, letting you fuel it with unneeded dorks. And all of that is just the Explore portion of the card. That alone wouldn't quite be enough to make this card worthwhile. The fact that this synergy is attached to what can be a moderate to heavy threat that demands an answer *does* make this card a worthwhile inclusion.
So yeah...I think Jadelight is a straight swap for Selkie in pretty much all cases. But I think it'll do better *with* Courser not *instead of* Courser. It has too much going for it in terms of synergy and will often have more presence than Selkie to boot.
My two cents...sorry for butting in. =P
You’re not butting in at all! You’re part of the community. Everyone should feel comfortable saying whatever they want when they want on here. That’s how we all get better. I often bring up a card/idea knowing I likely will not end up playing it just to open conversation, peek, someone’s interest, get perspectives I hadn’t thought of, etc.
And your point about Jadelight Ranger is a good one. I too am just playing both!! They are both great separate and are even better together :). Between Courser, Jadelight, Duskwatch Recruiter, Oath of Nissa, Fetches, and Kiora...we can dig through/draw half the deck in only a few turns....I’m playing 20 lands now. While it makes Courser a little worse; I still feel like it’s hard to get mana screwed.
Isn't that a true infinite loop anyways? There's no may on either of those so you'd draw the game. But I'm sure there's a way to borderline abuse it. Just look at Hearthstone and Grim Patron
Polyraptor + Kiora emblem + Doubling Season is an interruptable infinite that also wipes an opponents board, and they each synergize well with one another regardless of if you have all three at the same time. If you want to make full use of doubling season and enable additional ways to grow/search for Polyraptor or the other combo pieces then Walking Ballista and Genesis Hydra are good choices. From there you just need to focus on ramp and gas in your two and three slots and you've got yourself some good fun, methinks.
"Elder of Laurels is something I've been testing recently as a potential infinite combo with Devoted Druid. If you have those two and three other creatures on baord; Elder of Laurels gives the Druid +5/+5...this allows it to tap for 5-mana (netting one mana in the process). You then repeat this loop infinitely."
that essentially pumps the whole team, anything to give them trample and your set to go. going wide rarely ever needs trample though.
"Elder of Laurels is something I've been testing recently as a potential infinite combo with Devoted Druid. If you have those two and three other creatures on baord; Elder of Laurels gives the Druid +5/+5...this allows it to tap for 5-mana (netting one mana in the process). You then repeat this loop infinitely."
that essentially pumps the whole team, anything to give them trample and your set to go. going wide rarely ever needs trample though.
Great point (and one I should have made before). To be honest with you, I started it as an "infinite mana" combo and didn't realize until testing that it just won the game outright in most cases It does indeed pump your entire board. Thus far, I’ve really liked the combo. It’s fragile for sure; but they are both good cards in the deck without the combo. It feels natural to the deck...like there is a combo "hidden" in it without being a full-on combo deck. It’s not as fast as the “oops I win” nature of Vizier can be with Chord, etc.; but doesn’t feel like I’m playing an otherwise useless card either...and it is mono-green!
A few ideas I've been testing/brewing with (within the deck):
1. Given they are both green creatures; I may have to play a few Summoners Pact as well.
2. Woodland Bellower seems good here (as it can grab either combo piece or Duskwatch Recruiter, Witness, or Jadelight Ranger for value.
3. I've thought about playing Coiling Oracle, Elvish Visionary, or Carven Caryatid to "speed up" the deck; but the only card I could imagine them replacing is Courser of Kruphix...and it comes with the added benefit of 4 toughness, life-gain, good synergy with other cards, etc...so I may test the others...but if the speed feels fine I won't be replacing Courser.
4. Considering taking out Oath of Nissa (I know it's crazy good...it's just a thought...) as the deck has a lot of digging already and a creature like Coiling Oracle or even Merfolk Branshwalker (see below) may just be better. Posted a "Version Two" below. Let me know what you guys/gals think.
5. I'm honestly not sure you need a full set of Devoted Druid...I may just play three...this will come with testing.
** Also, With as good as Jadelight Ranger has been...I’m seriously tempted to play Merfolk Branchwalker in the 2-slot. A 3/2 for two isn’t bad (and drawing a card (if land) and a 2/1 is better than Elvish Visionary **
You’d be surprised how often when you have both you have five creatures...it is a fragile combo; but I’ve won two games tonight just giving another creature(s) pumps with Elder of Laurels.
It does make me want to play Nylea, Rhonas, Wolf Run, or some other way to give trample though (or play Managorger Hydra or something) like you said; but thus far I’ve either had more creatures than them or had a Ballista or Recruiter to take advantage of the infinite mana.
I am actually going to try to test Arch of Orazca in decks where I’m not playing Wolf Run (non -red). We hit Ascend easily and often have 5 extra mana. It’s not a powerful land; but if it doesn’t harm gameplay much then it may be worth it. Worth testing at least (especially since we can untap it and draw again!)
I was hoping for a broken Ascend card; but it looks like they’ve played it very safe thus far. It doesn’t come into play tapped...so there is certainly potential there.
______
I me try a mono-green deck (likely splashing for sideboard) and replacing Kiora with a fourth Garruk and Nissa Vital Force. The Explore triggers make for more permanents in the yard and making lands in to creatures is strong. Nissa Worldwaker May work too. I’ll try it out.
The untapping ability is what makes our deck do silly things; but having four garruks and at least one nissa may be enough. I’m testing a good portion today so I’ll let you know how it goes.
I manage to get a ton of value out of Courser very quickly if it survives a couple turns, you need to maximize its value potential.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I manage to get a ton of value out of Courser very quickly if it survives a couple turns, you need to maximize its value potential.
I like Courser and you are right it can generate a TON of value...the only part I disagree with is the "quickly". It is a fantastic card (its rate is great, and over a game going 4+ turns it will generate great value). I've just found I tend to win games that go longer anyways...so it is a matter of if the value is necessary to win the majority of games (vs. something a little faster). I'm just trying out Merfolk Branchwalker in the "Courser Slot" tonight to see how it works. There is every possibility that those just turn back into Courser (and would just be a full set )
** EDIT ** I did change one Witness and the Vizier to Courser of Kruphix so that there are now two of them.
Current "Devoted Exploration" List Testing (Under Spoiler to Save Space)
I think there's enough counters-matter cards to warrant some brewing. I've had it one my mind for a while now, and Jadelight should be a very nice addition, though the counters are not reliable which might be a bit awkward.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
If you're looking at counters matters, then I think the deck would likely have a more aggro focus with some late game viability.
Experiment One and/or Avatar of the Resolute would probably be cards I'd put in a counters matters deck. Avatar is good for early devotion and can become huge if there's a decent number of creatures with +1/+1 Counters.
I think there's enough counters-matter cards to warrant some brewing. I've had it one my mind for a while now, and Jadelight should be a very nice addition, though the counters are not reliable which might be a bit awkward.
If you're looking at counters matters, then I think the deck would likely have a more aggro focus with some late game viability.
Experiment One and/or Avatar of the Resolute would probably be cards I'd put in a counters matters deck. Avatar is good for early devotion and can become huge if there's a decent number of creatures with +1/+1 Counters.
I have a few lists and a "counters matter cards" folder...but thus far I don't think there is enough payoff for generating lots of counters (outside of having larger creatures.
I have a few lists and a "counters matter cards" folder...but thus far I don't think there is enough payoff for generating lots of counters (outside of having larger creatures.
You might be able to get away with pulling off a combo like Fate Transfer a creature with counters (your favorite Reverent Hunter or an Avatar) onto a Walking Ballista, but I see most of the damage would be just beating down with big creatures.
I have a few lists and a "counters matter cards" folder...but thus far I don't think there is enough payoff for generating lots of counters (outside of having larger creatures.
You might be able to get away with pulling off a combo like Fate Transfer a creature with counters (your favorite Reverent Hunter or an Avatar) onto a Walking Ballista, but I see most of the damage would be just beating down with big creatures.
True. I had a deck with Bioshift in it for a while that played Reverent Hunter, Genesis Hydra, and Garruk, Primal Hunters...generally once you hit Garruk PH you could draw out the deck by "stringing" Garruks and drawing huge sums of cards...then you Bioshift the counters from your last Hunter on to a Walking Ballista...if I'm being entirely honest, I never actually gave the deck a chance (I didn't take the time to tune it like I would normally).
The problem with Counters Devotion is that while it may be able to do some cool stuff, you'd have remove some cards that are quite essential for Green Devotion.
If anyone wants to compile a large list of good counter-matters cards that would be helpful.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Realistically, both W and R is probably too much to readily ask. Which is a shame, because those also happen to be great mana sinks.
Haha! Just wanted to make sure we saw the card. I use Imgur; but it likely just depends on where you originally copied the image.
It is a crazy good card though...It can be "Pact-ed" for which is nice....if you can reliably get all three colors I could see this being played in a list or two. Not a "staple" for Devotion...but definitely a way to end the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Enthusiasts
Current Decks/Archetypes
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If only we had access to Aether Flash.
You’re not butting in at all! You’re part of the community. Everyone should feel comfortable saying whatever they want when they want on here. That’s how we all get better. I often bring up a card/idea knowing I likely will not end up playing it just to open conversation, peek, someone’s interest, get perspectives I hadn’t thought of, etc.
And your point about Jadelight Ranger is a good one. I too am just playing both!! They are both great separate and are even better together :). Between Courser, Jadelight, Duskwatch Recruiter, Oath of Nissa, Fetches, and Kiora...we can dig through/draw half the deck in only a few turns....I’m playing 20 lands now. While it makes Courser a little worse; I still feel like it’s hard to get mana screwed.
I’m up to a full set of Jadelight Ranger already
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
3x Devoted Druid
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Courser of Kruphix
4x Jadelight Ranger
1x Elder of Laurels
1x Eternal Witness
1x Ant Queen
2x Acidic Slime
3x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (7)
4x Kiora, Master of the Depths
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Land (20)
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Wooded Foothills
6x Forest
3x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
** You could easily add a 1-if Nylea, God of the Hunt or Rhonas the Indomitable as well and I likely will once I figure out what to remove **
Isn't that a true infinite loop anyways? There's no may on either of those so you'd draw the game. But I'm sure there's a way to borderline abuse it. Just look at Hearthstone and Grim Patron
that essentially pumps the whole team, anything to give them trample and your set to go. going wide rarely ever needs trample though.
the resemblance of both cards artwork is cool.
but on a more serious note, that Aether Flash would cause that to make an infinite loop and the game would draw.
I think explore is still better. drawing card > scrying. Not sure why i need a single +1/+1 counter on creatures in this deck.
Great point (and one I should have made before). To be honest with you, I started it as an "infinite mana" combo and didn't realize until testing that it just won the game outright in most cases It does indeed pump your entire board. Thus far, I’ve really liked the combo. It’s fragile for sure; but they are both good cards in the deck without the combo. It feels natural to the deck...like there is a combo "hidden" in it without being a full-on combo deck. It’s not as fast as the “oops I win” nature of Vizier can be with Chord, etc.; but doesn’t feel like I’m playing an otherwise useless card either...and it is mono-green!
A few ideas I've been testing/brewing with (within the deck):
1. Given they are both green creatures; I may have to play a few Summoners Pact as well.
2. Woodland Bellower seems good here (as it can grab either combo piece or Duskwatch Recruiter, Witness, or Jadelight Ranger for value.
3. I've thought about playing Coiling Oracle, Elvish Visionary, or Carven Caryatid to "speed up" the deck; but the only card I could imagine them replacing is Courser of Kruphix...and it comes with the added benefit of 4 toughness, life-gain, good synergy with other cards, etc...so I may test the others...but if the speed feels fine I won't be replacing Courser.
4. Considering taking out Oath of Nissa (I know it's crazy good...it's just a thought...) as the deck has a lot of digging already and a creature like Coiling Oracle or even Merfolk Branshwalker (see below) may just be better. Posted a "Version Two" below. Let me know what you guys/gals think.
5. I'm honestly not sure you need a full set of Devoted Druid...I may just play three...this will come with testing.
** Also, With as good as Jadelight Ranger has been...I’m seriously tempted to play Merfolk Branchwalker in the 2-slot. A 3/2 for two isn’t bad (and drawing a card (if land) and a 2/1 is better than Elvish Visionary **
You’d be surprised how often when you have both you have five creatures...it is a fragile combo; but I’ve won two games tonight just giving another creature(s) pumps with Elder of Laurels.
It does make me want to play Nylea, Rhonas, Wolf Run, or some other way to give trample though (or play Managorger Hydra or something) like you said; but thus far I’ve either had more creatures than them or had a Ballista or Recruiter to take advantage of the infinite mana.
Current Devoted Elders List (s):
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Courser of Kruphix
4x Jadelight Ranger
1x Elder of Laurels
1x Eternal Witness
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Acidic Slime
3x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
Instant/Sorcery (1)
1x Summoner's Pact
Planeswalker (6)
3x Kiora, Master of the Depths
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Land (20)
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Wooded Foothills
6x Forest
3x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Arbor Elf
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
3x Coiling Oracle
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Courser of Kruphix
4x Jadelight Ranger
1x Elder of Laurels
1x Eternal Witness
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Acidic Slime
3x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
Planeswalker (6)
3x Kiora, Master of the Depths
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Land (20)
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Wooded Foothills
6x Forest
3x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
** Coiling Oracle could be Merfolk Branchwalker if superior **
I was hoping for a broken Ascend card; but it looks like they’ve played it very safe thus far. It doesn’t come into play tapped...so there is certainly potential there.
______
I me try a mono-green deck (likely splashing for sideboard) and replacing Kiora with a fourth Garruk and Nissa Vital Force. The Explore triggers make for more permanents in the yard and making lands in to creatures is strong. Nissa Worldwaker May work too. I’ll try it out.
The untapping ability is what makes our deck do silly things; but having four garruks and at least one nissa may be enough. I’m testing a good portion today so I’ll let you know how it goes.
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
3x Merfolk Branchwalker
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
4x Jadelight Ranger
2x Courser of Kruphix
1x Elder of Laurels
1x Eternal Witness
2x Acidic Slime
3x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (5)
1x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
Land (20)
7x Green Fetch
6x Forest
2x Temple Garden
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Arch of Orazca
1x Sigarda, Heron's Grace
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Thrashing Brontodon
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Whisperwood Elemental
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Primal Command
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2x Path to Exile
I have been toying playing Vizier of the Menagerie as well...but Duskwatch Recruiter may just be enough.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I like Courser and you are right it can generate a TON of value...the only part I disagree with is the "quickly". It is a fantastic card (its rate is great, and over a game going 4+ turns it will generate great value). I've just found I tend to win games that go longer anyways...so it is a matter of if the value is necessary to win the majority of games (vs. something a little faster). I'm just trying out Merfolk Branchwalker in the "Courser Slot" tonight to see how it works. There is every possibility that those just turn back into Courser (and would just be a full set )
** EDIT ** I did change one Witness and the Vizier to Courser of Kruphix so that there are now two of them.
Current "Devoted Exploration" List Testing (Under Spoiler to Save Space)
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
3x Merfolk Branchwalker
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
4x Jadelight Ranger
2x Courser of Kruphix
1x Elder of Laurels
1x Eternal Witness
2x Acidic Slime
3x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (5)
1x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
Land (20)
7x Green Fetch
6x Forest
2x Temple Garden
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Arch of Orazca
1x Sigarda, Heron's Grace
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Creeping Corrosion
1x Thrashing Brontodon
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Whisperwood Elemental
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Primal Command
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2x Path to Exile
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Experiment One and/or Avatar of the Resolute would probably be cards I'd put in a counters matters deck. Avatar is good for early devotion and can become huge if there's a decent number of creatures with +1/+1 Counters.
Yeah...you could likely just play Winding Constrictor and Avatar of the Resolute and the remainder of cards we already play (incldusing Merfolk Branchwalker, Jadelight Ranger, and Walking Ballista)...of course you may want a copy or two of Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and possibly Ajani, Mentor of Heros...I would have really loved a few more "counters matter" cards (that allow movement of counters, turning counters into damage, turning counters into card draw, etc.) all of the above along with Reverent Hunter and Genesis Hydra would be AWESOME.
I have a few lists and a "counters matter cards" folder...but thus far I don't think there is enough payoff for generating lots of counters (outside of having larger creatures.
You might be able to get away with pulling off a combo like Fate Transfer a creature with counters (your favorite Reverent Hunter or an Avatar) onto a Walking Ballista, but I see most of the damage would be just beating down with big creatures.
True. I had a deck with Bioshift in it for a while that played Reverent Hunter, Genesis Hydra, and Garruk, Primal Hunters...generally once you hit Garruk PH you could draw out the deck by "stringing" Garruks and drawing huge sums of cards...then you Bioshift the counters from your last Hunter on to a Walking Ballista...if I'm being entirely honest, I never actually gave the deck a chance (I didn't take the time to tune it like I would normally).
If anyone wants to compile a large list of good counter-matters cards that would be helpful.
-
Zacama, Primal Calamity
This is on our splash colors and has a lot of utility. Probably too hard to cast reliably though.
EDIT:
woh that image is huge! not sure how to shrink it, removed image
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Thought you did that deliberately for emphasis!
Realistically, both W and R is probably too much to readily ask. Which is a shame, because those also happen to be great mana sinks.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Yeah I had that issue last time cards were spoiled. You can still refer to the card because it's been added to the MTGSalvation website.
Zacama, Primal Calamity
I'd be keen to compile a list of cards that would be interesting in a "Counters Matter" deck, I think I'll start on that later tonight.
That would be awesome!
Haha! Just wanted to make sure we saw the card. I use Imgur; but it likely just depends on where you originally copied the image.
It is a crazy good card though...It can be "Pact-ed" for which is nice....if you can reliably get all three colors I could see this being played in a list or two. Not a "staple" for Devotion...but definitely a way to end the game.