Good with our creature-heavy nature...draws cards Everything I love in cards I know it sucks on an open board and is win-more...but We’ve always got bunches of creatures...
The "creature gets +X/+X for number of creatures" is funny because I've recently been trying to test a deck in secret with Devoted Druid and Elder of Laurels (it is infinite mana with 5 creatures which is not much for us)...can't say it is competitively viable yet...I just tend to like having an infinite combo available.
Just some initial thoughts. These thoughts are given from a spike's perspective i.e. competitive-level, and in reference to devotion (of course). My thoughts are blunt on purpose! (to start discussion) I'm sure in the coming weeks testing will be done and the cream of the crop will be discovered.
Path to Discovery: seems reasonable, but probably trash. Great in token strategies, though.
Tilonalli's Summoner: nice mana sink for those playing Red, but pretty bad in this deck otherwise. Most likely a build around for devotion decks, so seems like it won't be playable.
Huatli, Radiant Champion: trash. +1 does nothing, -1 and you might as well play Aspect of Hydra, and you're never getting that ult off unless you +1, which as established does nothing. Could be good for GW token strategies in Standard.
Jadelight Ranger: This is SUPER promising! Fixes the drawback of Wistful Selkie being unplayable T2 with a colorless land (aka Nykthos) in hand, is a strong T2 threat if the opponent does nothing, fixes mana screw as well! The possible options are:
- 4/3, "scry" 1, "scry" 1
- 3/2, draw 1, "scry" 1
- 2/1, draw 2
I think the card has great potential because late game it can mill dead cards off the top whilst being a threat at the same time. Also, in the case that it has 1 toughness, it has drawn you two lands as opposed to 1 card like Elvish Visionary, so it doesn't feel as bad to get Liliana, the Last Hoped or Electrolysed. And early game, drawing 2 lands gets you to gas quicker! I'm really excited for this card, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this card be a staple for devotion in the future.
Yeah...I would never call a card "trash" but I think/post on a different level than you...I think about brewing/discussion potential (which is part of what I feel an OP should do in a thread while still pointing out which deck lists/card are "competitively viable")...but I do understand your position as a "spike" and i think it is tremendously important to point out which cards are super competitive in general (as a majority on here want to get Devotion to Tier-status.)
I do agree that Jadelight Ranger is likely the most competitively viable card for Devotion (I am a sucker for ETB effects though). I was being a little "cute" with my "Pretty good too" post (tried sarcasm with a Smiley Face but as always sarcasm doesn't work online...
We do have a LOT of 3-drops to choose from. Despite this, I do think that this can hold up with the rest. I'm REALLY excited for this card.
I think Hualti can be better than you think...but is absolutely a "build around me" card (as it's really only worth it if you can get it to its ultimate quickly). While Aspect of Hydra is great in our deck...the direct comparison of a "modal" card (i.e. where you get to choose whether you want to use the effect or a different one multiple turns) vs. a single spell will often discount the modal card. In this case, however, given that the other two abilities really only lead to the ultimate (a permanent quasi-Glimpse of Nature...not exactly the same as cast/ETB) it probably makes more sense than most such comparisons.
I just love the idea of spending two turns pumping birds to 7/8 flyers as with all cards like this...however...if you have 5+ creatures; aren’t you winning anyways? This may not always be the case with us (with dorks, witness, courser, etc.) but we’ll see....I will definitely try it out and let you know. It just looks too fun not to
I do agree that Jadelight Ranger is the only card that can be put into a lot of devotion decks. That said; we had a 2-drop option that explored once...is a 3-drop that explores twice thAt much better? Interesting discussion indeed.
The red Summoner, and Hualti are both "build around" and/or 1-of's in certain decks...I do think, however, both can be good where they are played. Part of what I try to do as OP is generate discussions...so please feel free to say if you think a card is awful! It still makes for great discussion.
I wondered about Ghalta...I didn’t post it because we discussed it a little a while back when it was first spoiled...I do think there may be something there for stompy builds.
I am proxying Jadelight now and am going to test it today to see how it plays out.
Elder of Laurels is something I've been testing recently as a potential infinite combo with Devoted Druid. If you have those two and three other creatures on baord; Elder of Laurels gives the Druid +5/+5...this allows it to tap for 5-mana (netting one mana in the process). You then repeat this loop infinitely.
It's very "base" right now (and likely may need more high-drop cards) but I prefer to utilize mana-sinks where I can. I want to see how far I can take the mana-sink and "value" idea.
I do like the interaction between Duskwatch Recruiter, Jadellight Range, Courser of Kruphix, and Nissa, Steward of Elements and fetch lands with the top of the deck (gives us a LOT of manipulation there.
6 Mana 6/6 with that effect? Feels somewhat undercosted especially considering that it's a rare. Probably getting into "fun-of" Territory here but might as well try it in a R/G build
6 Mana 6/6 with that effect? Feels somewhat undercosted especially considering that it's a rare. Probably getting into "fun-of" Territory here but might as well try it in a R/G build
I agree it is likely "fun of" (although we do have a few ways to play around with the top of our deck)...but it would be a lot of fun
Jadelight seems like the best card spoiled so far, and would compete for Courser's slot but I'm not sure how much competition it really gives it.
Here's a brief comparison. Courser has the potential to draw a card every turn and gains life felling a much needed void against burn. Being able to see the top card and shuffle away anything you don't want to draw is another form of card advantage. Over a longer game, Courser has the potential to accrue a lot more value very quickly. How many turns exactly on average? Not sure, but I would bet not many.
Jadelight's greatest upside is that it accrues value immediately, which is great vs. decks playing a lot of removal. Having said that, a 4/3 that has the potential to pseudo-scry 1-2 cards is what we really need to compare to Courser. The 4/3 body isn't very exciting, and I'd rather have a better blocker that can defend Garruk and add more value. Athe aize doesn't really matter when the endgame tends to be overrunning anyways.
It's the best card spoiled for Green Devotion recently and warrants some testing. I'm fairly confident I will not wouldn't want to replace Courser
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Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Oh, when I said "from a spike's perspective", I literally meant A spike, not a metaphor for me! Though I do think competitively most of the time; if I was a full-time spike I'd probably be a regular in the Death's Shadow forums.
I forgot to mention Thrashing Brontodon, another super strong card for devotion. No question we should all pick up a few from draft piles and/or at pre-release, the real question is whether it replaces Acidic Slime and/or Reclamation Sage. Probably doesn't replace the deathtoucher but it has competition with the 2/1 elf. It's nice that you can play it on an empty board and not feel bad.
I can see how Jadelight Ranger could be compared to Courser of Kruphix. I never thought to compare the card to the 2/4 centaur because I don't think anything will ever replace Courser. I did have a feeling from games in the past, however, that Wistful Selkie could do with a replacement/alternative; specifically a 3 drop that draws cards but doesn't have GGG so it could be cast of a T2 Nykthos, as I mentioned previously. Now the merfolk doesn't exactly draw cards, but I think it has enough upside to to strongly contend with the uncommon from Eventide.
I say Huatli is bad on first impressions because its +1 and ultimate are anti-synergistic; the +1 wants you to have a lot of creatures, whilst the ultimate wants you to have creatures in hand to take advantage of it. The ult is certainly good with Garruk beasts and our mana dorks, but if we got to ult her then we've probably won anyway; the GW planeswalker could've instead been a Garruk, Wildspeaker that we protected for a turn, with a bunch of creatures on board just like Huatli, with an ult that actually wins the game instead of giving an emblem that requires even more effort for its reward. And all of this talk is about her ultimate: the first rule of planeswalkers is don't judge them solely by their ultimate! And unfortunately, in this case, her +1 leads you directly to her ultimate. "But she has a -1 as well" I hear you say. Well if she survives you'll be getting 3 pumps minimum out of her anyway, which is also situational and dependent of having many creatures; I hope none of you will -1 to pump a lone Birds to 1 power unless you're going for the kill! I just can't see her having any value in green devotion.
I was iffy on Brontodon, but being able to play it on an empty Board, plus it being better for Devotion means I'm willing to give it a try instead of my one SB Rec Sage. It's also Bolt-proof, which is very nice!
Oh, when I said "from a spike's perspective", I literally meant A spike, not a metaphor for me! Though I do think competitively most of the time; if I was a full-time spike I'd probably be a regular in the Death's Shadow forums.
I forgot to mention Thrashing Brontodon, another super strong card for devotion. No question we should all pick up a few from draft piles and/or at pre-release, the real question is whether it replaces Acidic Slime and/or Reclamation Sage. Probably doesn't replace the deathtoucher but it has competition with the 2/1 elf. It's nice that you can play it on an empty board and not feel bad.
I can see how Jadelight Ranger could be compared to Courser of Kruphix. I never thought to compare the card to the 2/4 centaur because I don't think anything will ever replace Courser. I did have a feeling from games in the past, however, that Wistful Selkie could do with a replacement/alternative; specifically a 3 drop that draws cards but doesn't have GGG so it could be cast of a T2 Nykthos, as I mentioned previously. Now the merfolk doesn't exactly draw cards, but I think it has enough upside to to strongly contend with the uncommon from Eventide.
I say Huatli is bad on first impressions because its +1 and ultimate are anti-synergistic; the +1 wants you to have a lot of creatures, whilst the ultimate wants you to have creatures in hand to take advantage of it. The ult is certainly good with Garruk beasts and our mana dorks, but if we got to ult her then we've probably won anyway; the GW planeswalker could've instead been a Garruk, Wildspeaker that we protected for a turn, with a bunch of creatures on board just like Huatli, with an ult that actually wins the game instead of giving an emblem that requires even more effort for its reward. And all of this talk is about her ultimate: the first rule of planeswalkers is don't judge them solely by their ultimate! And unfortunately, in this case, her +1 leads you directly to her ultimate. "But she has a -1 as well" I hear you say. Well if she survives you'll be getting 3 pumps minimum out of her anyway, which is also situational and dependent of having many creatures; I hope none of you will -1 to pump a lone Birds to 1 power unless you're going for the kill! I just can't see her having any value in green devotion.
Agree with pretty much all of this...
I generally play a few 3-drops and have always wanted a "better" card than Selkie (I often play Carven Caryatid) as the downside of not having 3 green happens more than I llike...I do think Jadelight Ranger does this...I have only played it a few games; but it seems quite promising.
I will definitely be picking up Thrashing Brontodon as I do think it superior in some cases to Reclamation Sage.
Fine...Huatli is only a "fun" walker (rather than a competitive one)...I'm still building something with her for the fun of it
I was iffy on Brontodon, but being able to play it on an empty Board, plus it being better for Devotion means I'm willing to give it a try instead of my one SB Rec Sage. It's also Bolt-proof, which is very nice!
Totally agree. Rendroc made some good points when I posted it initially (and I don't think it is an auto "switch out" for Reclamation Sage in every or even most decks)...but in play often times you may want to play out the creature prior to wanting to destroy an artifact. I think it is just a good tool available to us in certain situations. I think Rec Sage will be likely be better in a majority of situations; but I consider Thrashing Brontodon a tool we should add to our toolbox...and that there likely will be decks/situations where it is better.
Jadelight is definitely an upgraded Wistful Selkie. I think it might be about even with Courser, however they're better in different contexts. I like the immediate benefit as I've never gotten more than 2 lands for free with Courser, personally.
Brontodon is a decent body, I dig him. I'm liking the double gren symbols in this set so far. Hopefully there's some more decent ones!
Yeah...so Jadelight Ranger is good :). Just in my little bit of testing it has been incredibly powerful. I actually personally like it more than Courser (I know it’s blasphemy) as I tend to weight immediate benefits (ETB’s) highly.
Either way, however, the card is strong!
_____
Counter Devotion...viable?
Jadelight Ranger does have me wondering if a +1/+1 deck is viable in Devotion (now with this, Nissa, , Ballista, etc.)...you’d likely want something to with them...but we also have access to Gavony Township.
+1/+1 counters also nullify Devoted Druid’s -1/-1 counters (meaning he could tap for 2 or more mana multiple turns... it the. You get into cards like Avatar of the Resolute, etc. It’s definitely a fun idea nonetheless.
It does make Scavenging Ooze awesome and introduces a few new options...but really the thought would be if it was worth it just by enhancing already “good” Green Devotion cards. I try to bring up as many ideas as possible during spoiler season; but this one may have more “legs” than most.
In all likelihood; Jadelight Ranger will just be a great addition to already great Devotion decks! But it’s fun and important to go through both such thought-processes and testing to improve.
Jadelight Ranger isn't the source of long-run card advantage that Courser is, nor is he as strong of a blocker, nor does he give a trickle of lifegain. He does get you some sifting immediately, which is nice. I'm confident that this is better than Selkie, not that it's better than Courser or Finks.
Not to make this a war over "best 3 drop", but I just think that you'll have to evaluate your meta context to determine the better creature. Burn and aggro, Courser is better. Spell based and Tron decks, I would say this is better.
Midrange and control I lean towards Jadelight. With so few lands, it's hard to really get a ton of value out of Courser in the face of lots of removal.
Still waiting for some sweet green mythics though...
Hey all. Been lurking (on this thread in particular) for ages now. Have been piloting this deck for just as long with a ton of success as I've tinkered and brewed with it over the years. Always love checking back here when new sets are out to see what crazy ideas you all have come up with to see if it sparks any inspiration for my own MGD brews.
All that said, I definitely think Jadelight is a straight swap for Selkie in decks that are already running Courser and Witness. There's a few reasons for this, but it all really comes down to synergy, CA (virtual in this case), and tempo.
Lets examine Selkie first: puts you at +1 CA, with a small beat (no response needed). That's really the extent of it. Whether you hit it on curve, as a "free" drop before a nykthos activation, CC or Wave into it--that's all Selkie is: a bit of gas and a small threat.
Jadelight is a bit more complex: I won't rehash possible options because Uyan did a good job of laying them out. But I think it's wrong to think of Explore as Scry when we have access to E-Witness *and* Courser. With Courser already in play, we can know if Jadelight is going to draw us cards and help us dig out of a potential mana pocket. With E-Witness simply existing in our decks, we can freely send cards like P-Command, Gwave, Company, etc to the grave because then they're available for our use to extend our locks or waves when we try and go off. What's more Jadelight's interactions with Oath after being Waved in are absolutely lovely, allowing you to better shape what 3 you look at and potentially send Instants/Sorceries to the grave for a Waved Ewitness to pick up. And then there's the niche interactions it has with Scooze, letting you fuel it with unneeded dorks. And all of that is just the Explore portion of the card. That alone wouldn't quite be enough to make this card worthwhile. The fact that this synergy is attached to what can be a moderate to heavy threat that demands an answer *does* make this card a worthwhile inclusion.
So yeah...I think Jadelight is a straight swap for Selkie in pretty much all cases. But I think it'll do better *with* Courser not *instead of* Courser. It has too much going for it in terms of synergy and will often have more presence than Selkie to boot.
Not to make this a war over "best 3 drop", but I just think that you'll have to evaluate your meta context to determine the better creature. Burn and aggro, Courser is better. Spell based and Tron decks, I would say this is better.
Midrange and control I lean towards Jadelight. With so few lands, it's hard to really get a ton of value out of Courser in the face of lots of removal.
Still waiting for some sweet green mythics though...
10000% agree. I’ve had many decks that didn’t play Courser (for both meta and synergy reasons). I should have been more clear. My saying I “like” Jadelight more; I simply mean it fits my preferred play style more.
I agree with Grull that I care more about determining which three-drops are competitive/viable rather than their “rank”. I’m just playing both!!!
On a non-Jadelight note, this is the latest MGD idea I've been playing with, after taking a lot of inspiration from CurdBros playtesting with Druid, his discovery with Laurels and the classic Vizier combo:
I don't think this deck is super competitive as is (I'm not sure I would sleeve this up instead of my usual build just yet), but it does some fun things that are worth exploring.
Plan A is to dig, pact, CC, or Wave-for-value into one of two infinite mana combos, dump your deck on the field, and win from Lab Maniac after caryatid trigger with Memorial to protect him from bolts and pushes. Plan B--if you've seen paths, snags, and the like (and a big reason I chose Memorial instead of the usual fare of enchantments...besides the fact that if you wave into it alongside a fresh druid and another combo piece you can go off immediately) is to win across the redzone with Garruk, a Memorial Boosted swarm, and/or Craterhoof.
Singleton Witness is a concession to reduce whiffed Wave attempts and allow us a bit of reactive resilience when playing vs removal.
Caryatid is used instead of visionary because buying turns vs little dudes is a necessity and the extra devotion is needed in deck this light on symbols.
Deck is light on 2+ GG CMCs because we're technically in 4 colors and we potentially need to hit 3 of them by turn 3/4 (sprawls on white or blue can make up for this, potentially), which in my experience means more fetches than usable lands (a problem I'd care about more if not for the whole infinite mana thing).
Good with our creature-heavy nature...draws cards Everything I love in cards I know it sucks on an open board and is win-more...but We’ve always got bunches of creatures...
The "creature gets +X/+X for number of creatures" is funny because I've recently been trying to test a deck in secret with Devoted Druid and Elder of Laurels (it is infinite mana with 5 creatures which is not much for us)...can't say it is competitively viable yet...I just tend to like having an infinite combo available.
Pretty good too
Enter the Unknown: trash.
Path to Discovery: seems reasonable, but probably trash. Great in token strategies, though.
Tilonalli's Summoner: nice mana sink for those playing Red, but pretty bad in this deck otherwise. Most likely a build around for devotion decks, so seems like it won't be playable.
Huatli, Radiant Champion: trash. +1 does nothing, -1 and you might as well play Aspect of Hydra, and you're never getting that ult off unless you +1, which as established does nothing. Could be good for GW token strategies in Standard.
Jadelight Ranger: This is SUPER promising! Fixes the drawback of Wistful Selkie being unplayable T2 with a colorless land (aka Nykthos) in hand, is a strong T2 threat if the opponent does nothing, fixes mana screw as well! The possible options are:
- 4/3, "scry" 1, "scry" 1
- 3/2, draw 1, "scry" 1
- 2/1, draw 2
I think the card has great potential because late game it can mill dead cards off the top whilst being a threat at the same time. Also, in the case that it has 1 toughness, it has drawn you two lands as opposed to 1 card like Elvish Visionary, so it doesn't feel as bad to get Liliana, the Last Hoped or Electrolysed. And early game, drawing 2 lands gets you to gas quicker! I'm really excited for this card, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this card be a staple for devotion in the future.
I do agree that Jadelight Ranger is likely the most competitively viable card for Devotion (I am a sucker for ETB effects though). I was being a little "cute" with my "Pretty good too" post (tried sarcasm with a Smiley Face but as always sarcasm doesn't work online...
We do have a LOT of 3-drops to choose from. Despite this, I do think that this can hold up with the rest. I'm REALLY excited for this card.
I think Hualti can be better than you think...but is absolutely a "build around me" card (as it's really only worth it if you can get it to its ultimate quickly). While Aspect of Hydra is great in our deck...the direct comparison of a "modal" card (i.e. where you get to choose whether you want to use the effect or a different one multiple turns) vs. a single spell will often discount the modal card. In this case, however, given that the other two abilities really only lead to the ultimate (a permanent quasi-Glimpse of Nature...not exactly the same as cast/ETB) it probably makes more sense than most such comparisons.
I just love the idea of spending two turns pumping birds to 7/8 flyers as with all cards like this...however...if you have 5+ creatures; aren’t you winning anyways? This may not always be the case with us (with dorks, witness, courser, etc.) but we’ll see....I will definitely try it out and let you know. It just looks too fun not to
I do agree that Jadelight Ranger is the only card that can be put into a lot of devotion decks. That said; we had a 2-drop option that explored once...is a 3-drop that explores twice thAt much better? Interesting discussion indeed.
The red Summoner, and Hualti are both "build around" and/or 1-of's in certain decks...I do think, however, both can be good where they are played. Part of what I try to do as OP is generate discussions...so please feel free to say if you think a card is awful! It still makes for great discussion.
I wondered about Ghalta...I didn’t post it because we discussed it a little a while back when it was first spoiled...I do think there may be something there for stompy builds.
I am proxying Jadelight now and am going to test it today to see how it plays out.
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
3x Devoted Druid
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Courser of Kruphix
4x Jadelight Ranger
1x Elder of Laurels
1x Eternal Witness
1x Ant Queen
2x Acidic Slime
3x Walking Ballista
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Oath of Nissa
Planeswalker (7)
4x Kiora, Master of the Depths
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Land (20)
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Wooded Foothills
6x Forest
3x Breeding Pool
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
** EDIT **
Elder of Laurels Explanation
Elder of Laurels is something I've been testing recently as a potential infinite combo with Devoted Druid. If you have those two and three other creatures on baord; Elder of Laurels gives the Druid +5/+5...this allows it to tap for 5-mana (netting one mana in the process). You then repeat this loop infinitely.
It's very "base" right now (and likely may need more high-drop cards) but I prefer to utilize mana-sinks where I can. I want to see how far I can take the mana-sink and "value" idea.
I do like the interaction between Duskwatch Recruiter, Jadellight Range, Courser of Kruphix, and Nissa, Steward of Elements and fetch lands with the top of the deck (gives us a LOT of manipulation there.
6 Mana 6/6 with that effect? Feels somewhat undercosted especially considering that it's a rare. Probably getting into "fun-of" Territory here but might as well try it in a R/G build
I agree it is likely "fun of" (although we do have a few ways to play around with the top of our deck)...but it would be a lot of fun
Here's a brief comparison. Courser has the potential to draw a card every turn and gains life felling a much needed void against burn. Being able to see the top card and shuffle away anything you don't want to draw is another form of card advantage. Over a longer game, Courser has the potential to accrue a lot more value very quickly. How many turns exactly on average? Not sure, but I would bet not many.
Jadelight's greatest upside is that it accrues value immediately, which is great vs. decks playing a lot of removal. Having said that, a 4/3 that has the potential to pseudo-scry 1-2 cards is what we really need to compare to Courser. The 4/3 body isn't very exciting, and I'd rather have a better blocker that can defend Garruk and add more value. Athe aize doesn't really matter when the endgame tends to be overrunning anyways.
It's the best card spoiled for Green Devotion recently and warrants some testing. I'm fairly confident I will not wouldn't want to replace Courser
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I forgot to mention Thrashing Brontodon, another super strong card for devotion. No question we should all pick up a few from draft piles and/or at pre-release, the real question is whether it replaces Acidic Slime and/or Reclamation Sage. Probably doesn't replace the deathtoucher but it has competition with the 2/1 elf. It's nice that you can play it on an empty board and not feel bad.
I can see how Jadelight Ranger could be compared to Courser of Kruphix. I never thought to compare the card to the 2/4 centaur because I don't think anything will ever replace Courser. I did have a feeling from games in the past, however, that Wistful Selkie could do with a replacement/alternative; specifically a 3 drop that draws cards but doesn't have GGG so it could be cast of a T2 Nykthos, as I mentioned previously. Now the merfolk doesn't exactly draw cards, but I think it has enough upside to to strongly contend with the uncommon from Eventide.
I say Huatli is bad on first impressions because its +1 and ultimate are anti-synergistic; the +1 wants you to have a lot of creatures, whilst the ultimate wants you to have creatures in hand to take advantage of it. The ult is certainly good with Garruk beasts and our mana dorks, but if we got to ult her then we've probably won anyway; the GW planeswalker could've instead been a Garruk, Wildspeaker that we protected for a turn, with a bunch of creatures on board just like Huatli, with an ult that actually wins the game instead of giving an emblem that requires even more effort for its reward. And all of this talk is about her ultimate: the first rule of planeswalkers is don't judge them solely by their ultimate! And unfortunately, in this case, her +1 leads you directly to her ultimate. "But she has a -1 as well" I hear you say. Well if she survives you'll be getting 3 pumps minimum out of her anyway, which is also situational and dependent of having many creatures; I hope none of you will -1 to pump a lone Birds to 1 power unless you're going for the kill! I just can't see her having any value in green devotion.
Agree with pretty much all of this...
I generally play a few 3-drops and have always wanted a "better" card than Selkie (I often play Carven Caryatid) as the downside of not having 3 green happens more than I llike...I do think Jadelight Ranger does this...I have only played it a few games; but it seems quite promising.
I will definitely be picking up Thrashing Brontodon as I do think it superior in some cases to Reclamation Sage.
Fine...Huatli is only a "fun" walker (rather than a competitive one)...I'm still building something with her for the fun of it
Totally agree. Rendroc made some good points when I posted it initially (and I don't think it is an auto "switch out" for Reclamation Sage in every or even most decks)...but in play often times you may want to play out the creature prior to wanting to destroy an artifact. I think it is just a good tool available to us in certain situations. I think Rec Sage will be likely be better in a majority of situations; but I consider Thrashing Brontodon a tool we should add to our toolbox...and that there likely will be decks/situations where it is better.
Brontodon is a decent body, I dig him. I'm liking the double gren symbols in this set so far. Hopefully there's some more decent ones!
Either way, however, the card is strong!
_____
Counter Devotion...viable?
Jadelight Ranger does have me wondering if a +1/+1 deck is viable in Devotion (now with this, Nissa, , Ballista, etc.)...you’d likely want something to with them...but we also have access to Gavony Township.
+1/+1 counters also nullify Devoted Druid’s -1/-1 counters (meaning he could tap for 2 or more mana multiple turns... it the. You get into cards like Avatar of the Resolute, etc. It’s definitely a fun idea nonetheless.
Would we play Winding Restrictor, Hardened Scames, both, or neither?
It does make Scavenging Ooze awesome and introduces a few new options...but really the thought would be if it was worth it just by enhancing already “good” Green Devotion cards. I try to bring up as many ideas as possible during spoiler season; but this one may have more “legs” than most.
In all likelihood; Jadelight Ranger will just be a great addition to already great Devotion decks! But it’s fun and important to go through both such thought-processes and testing to improve.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Midrange and control I lean towards Jadelight. With so few lands, it's hard to really get a ton of value out of Courser in the face of lots of removal.
Still waiting for some sweet green mythics though...
All that said, I definitely think Jadelight is a straight swap for Selkie in decks that are already running Courser and Witness. There's a few reasons for this, but it all really comes down to synergy, CA (virtual in this case), and tempo.
Lets examine Selkie first: puts you at +1 CA, with a small beat (no response needed). That's really the extent of it. Whether you hit it on curve, as a "free" drop before a nykthos activation, CC or Wave into it--that's all Selkie is: a bit of gas and a small threat.
Jadelight is a bit more complex: I won't rehash possible options because Uyan did a good job of laying them out. But I think it's wrong to think of Explore as Scry when we have access to E-Witness *and* Courser. With Courser already in play, we can know if Jadelight is going to draw us cards and help us dig out of a potential mana pocket. With E-Witness simply existing in our decks, we can freely send cards like P-Command, Gwave, Company, etc to the grave because then they're available for our use to extend our locks or waves when we try and go off. What's more Jadelight's interactions with Oath after being Waved in are absolutely lovely, allowing you to better shape what 3 you look at and potentially send Instants/Sorceries to the grave for a Waved Ewitness to pick up. And then there's the niche interactions it has with Scooze, letting you fuel it with unneeded dorks. And all of that is just the Explore portion of the card. That alone wouldn't quite be enough to make this card worthwhile. The fact that this synergy is attached to what can be a moderate to heavy threat that demands an answer *does* make this card a worthwhile inclusion.
So yeah...I think Jadelight is a straight swap for Selkie in pretty much all cases. But I think it'll do better *with* Courser not *instead of* Courser. It has too much going for it in terms of synergy and will often have more presence than Selkie to boot.
My two cents...sorry for butting in. =P
10000% agree. I’ve had many decks that didn’t play Courser (for both meta and synergy reasons). I should have been more clear. My saying I “like” Jadelight more; I simply mean it fits my preferred play style more.
I agree with Grull that I care more about determining which three-drops are competitive/viable rather than their “rank”. I’m just playing both!!!
Spoiler season rocks! So much great conversation.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Carven Caryatid
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Devoted Druid
1x Elder of Laurels
1x Eternal Witness
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Vizier of Remedies
4x Collected Company
4x Summoner's Pact
Enchantments (8)
4x Oath of Nissa
4x Utopia Sprawl
Sorcery (4)
4x Genesis Wave
Artifact (1)
1x Akroma's Memorial
Planeswalker (3)
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Land (19)
1x Breeding Pool
3x Forest
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Misty Rainforest
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
I don't think this deck is super competitive as is (I'm not sure I would sleeve this up instead of my usual build just yet), but it does some fun things that are worth exploring.
Plan A is to dig, pact, CC, or Wave-for-value into one of two infinite mana combos, dump your deck on the field, and win from Lab Maniac after caryatid trigger with Memorial to protect him from bolts and pushes. Plan B--if you've seen paths, snags, and the like (and a big reason I chose Memorial instead of the usual fare of enchantments...besides the fact that if you wave into it alongside a fresh druid and another combo piece you can go off immediately) is to win across the redzone with Garruk, a Memorial Boosted swarm, and/or Craterhoof.
Singleton Witness is a concession to reduce whiffed Wave attempts and allow us a bit of reactive resilience when playing vs removal.
Caryatid is used instead of visionary because buying turns vs little dudes is a necessity and the extra devotion is needed in deck this light on symbols.
Deck is light on 2+ GG CMCs because we're technically in 4 colors and we potentially need to hit 3 of them by turn 3/4 (sprawls on white or blue can make up for this, potentially), which in my experience means more fetches than usable lands (a problem I'd care about more if not for the whole infinite mana thing).
If you want to goldfish it a bit to check for consistency (going off on turn 3 happened more than I thought it would), here's the tapped out link: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gw-devotion-combo/