WRT Death's Shadow, it's worth noting that you can make them gain 7 with Primal Command, which will often kill the namesake.
I haven't tried it but I really want to answer their strategy with direct damage. What's the fireball with flashback?
Edit to add Devil's Play is the card I was thinking of. Triple red is pretty rough on the flashback cost, but at least it isn't totally dead if they hit it with discard.
Yes, Primal Command is a decent card against Death's Shadow. The problem lies in the fact that it costs 5 mana. With all of the disruption they have, it's unlikely you'll be able to cast it. That's the problem with 8 maindeck discard spells unfortunately.
As for Devil's Play, it seems pretty impossible to get enough X mana generated to burn out a big goyf or shadow. I don't think we want to try any sort of damage-based destroy effects for their creatures.
Ooze can continually keep them off Delirium, although it will die quickly. Loaming Shaman gets rid of all of it, potentially keeping them off delirium for a couple turns.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Always wear protection kids, sleeve up your deck.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Right, if they have a big death's shadow I just want to burn 'em out of the game. They do so much damage to themselves I want to finish the job directly. I'd seriously consider Lava Axe. I don't know if it's a good plan, but I do know it's a fun plan.
Deathtouch blockers might help; they are usually winning with disruption plus one or two beefy under costed beaters. We need something that doesn't die to Tarfire... I guess Narnam Renegade could work in lists that consistently hit revolt.
Primal Command though can deal with both their Death's Shadows and their GY, it is by far our best card in the match-up imho (and the best card in the deck as well).
Ah yes, sorry I misunderstood the Devil's Play bit. It seems like a decent plan, but I wouldn't value it too highly...it costs far too much mana to flashback for a lethal kill than is reasonable for our matchup. I think stalling for a finisher is a better plan personally.
As for cards like Scavenging Ooze and Loaming Shaman, I hate to say it, but they are too slow! The Death Shadow deck runs so much discard that they will no doubt see it before turn 3, when they are useful! My thoughts on Relic was such that it was fast enough to dodge the discard, as well as negating their maindeck removal suite of Fatal Push and Tarfire. In addition, it exiles BOTH graveyards, which I think is incredibly relevant. When playing against Death's Shadow initially, it seemed like a one-time Primal Command was good enough to slow them down (by gaining them 7 life and shuffling their graveyard in). However, their deck is incredibly scrappy. By not removing your own graveyard, their goyfs will still be at least 3/4's, and grow bigger from there. Relic neuters this plan completely, and provides a consistent source of graveyard hate. That's why it's my tech of preference.
It's worth noting that this is mostly in respect to the Jund version of DS. I think the same rules could be applied to Grixis too though, since they also lean on their graveyard as a resource. Esper I have no idea
I'm testing against death's shadow quite a bit today; so I'll let you know what I find.
The list I've been testing recently has been relatively straight forward. I decided to try a very linear take on my "overwhelm" (and focus mainly on maximizing Garruk Wildspeaker, Chord of Calling, and Craterhoof Behemoth...
The board is based on two current ideas in testing ( Trinisphere and Lush Growth )....beyond that it is the "normal" cards.
The choice of Nest Invader came about because I've played it in the past and it just came to me while I was playing a match against a Kiki-Chord deck...I thought about Wall of Roots counting as 2-mana for Chord and thought "that would be great for my deck if it didn't have defender...". Then I remembered Nest Invader
Nest Invader can actually count as 3-mana for a Chord of Calling. You can tap both the Invader and the token and then sacrifice the token for another mana. It's also good with Garruk and Craterhoof as it is two bodies in one card.
Invader also provides means of ramping in an additional way...I can't guarantee it's great in the deck yet (I've only tested it for a few days now); but I wanted to simplify the Chord deck (main deck) to focus on "overwhelming" with bodies. I'll let you know how it goes.
I do think we are going to get 1-2 new cards in Amonkhet; however with their focus on swinging the answer/creature pendulum back again I don't see us getting as much as we did in the past few years (I.e. Not as many viable permanents on a per-set basis).
Let's just hope the Green God is amazing🤞🏻
______
** EDIT **
Trying Ranger of Eos and Waking Ballista main rather than Fairground Warden and Duskwatch Recruiter...makes me a little weaker to "can't search library" effects and very weak to "not ETB" effects (Torpor Orb, etc.) but that is something to worry about if and when they become part of the meta.
______
I may try the Cycle-Land (Scattered Groves) today too...if I do I'll let you know how it goes.
What do you guys think of making some kind of Ponza/Devotion hybrid? They both utilize the same ramp base and it is quite easy to splash red for a deck like this. I'm mainly thinking about this because Blood Moon is a good card in the meta, although it does turn off the Nykthos so it might have to rely on more enchantments. I'm also unsure if the payoff is worth going another color but it's tempting to think about casting a miracled bonfire for 20.
There might be something to that. But the decks already have a lot of similarity. Currently R/G LD is a better deck. This is a list I liked that came in 9th at the recent Dallas Open that Devotion placed 24th in.
LEGACY: Soldier Stompy WW // Blue Stompy UU // Fit Variants BGRW // Sol Land Brews BGRUWC MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Nest Invader can actually count as 3-mana for a Chord of Calling. You can tap both the Invader and the token and then sacrifice the token for another mana. It's also good with Garruk and Craterhoof as it is two bodies in one card.
I'm 99% sure that this doesn't work.
You either have to sac the token for mana or tap it, you can't do both with convoke.
It has to do with the current wording of the spell.
That being said i still like nest invader in our deck and will probably try it in my whisperwood list.
I also tried cutting the BTEs for lotus cobra, don't know yet whether i like this or not.
I'll look into this a littler harder to be safe (as I just took my initial understanding and past experiences with the cards without consulting a judge). It does work on MTGO; which I know is not always a 100$ guarantee something is legal...but at minimum even in the strictest of "stack" senses it still works. I've not had a player that I played against tell me it didn't work (again, doesn't mean much; but is my experience).
I did't see how the wording stops this from happening. Much like how Wall of Roots's mana-generating ability does not cause it to tap, the same is true of Eldrazi Spawns...
Convoke states" "Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 1 or one mana of that creature's color."
Spawns state: "Sacrifice this creature: Add 1 to your mana pool.
So when you cast Chord of Calling, you "convoke" the token (by tapping it). This, however, does not "turn off" the Spawn's activated ability of sacrificing it for 1-mana (as the ability does not require tapping the spawn). They are separate of one another. Since this can be activated at "instant speed" it can be used to generate mana for casting Chord of Calling.
I tried to think of other examples...I thought of perhaps of Fullminator Mage. "Convoking" Fullminator Mage (at least in my understanding) would not "turn off" its ability to be sacrificed to destroy a land (even while you are convoking).
I, however, am not a judge. If anyone on here is a judge; please do chime in and let us know in a more "judge-like" manner (as I'm sure my explanation is rife with errors/poor wording). There could also be a bug in MTGO that allows it (it could be just a coincidence that my understanding of how it works simply works in MTGO because the programmer had the same understanding).
I certainly hope it works because thus far it's been really cool! I have been working on finding one more way to "pump" everyone. The board fills up VERY quickly and while Garruk and Craterhoof will win a majority of the time; I'd like one more "pump" if I can do it. Right now, my two options are:
1. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar - Right now, I'm working on replacing one card for a Nissa. She works well because she can both pump and provide creatures to be overran/convoked. I currently removed an Eternal Witness (only because an early one is not that great) but I will test the removal of a single copy of multiple cards.
2. Gavony Township - Obviously, mana-sinks are amazing in Devotion. I don't know if it is possible to just replace a Horizon Canopy or fetch land with this and not see too many issues...but when you get into 5 or more colorless lands you start getting into "could effect your early turns" territory.
I'm currently trying both. I'll let you know how it goes.
Another random card I wanted to get in the sideboard (due to all the ETB effects) was Eldrazi Displacer...the issue is that I just haven't figured out a way to consistently produce enough colorless mana (as most times you will use Nykthos for Green mana). Oh well...can't have it all
No. Your opportunity to activate mana abilities comes before the payment of costs when casting a spell. If you announce an intent to tap Spawn for convoke, but you sacrifice them for mana before you get to point where you're paying the costs, you are no longer able to tap the now-dead Spawn for convoke. The casting of the spell is now illegal, and you have to back up to just before you announced the spell.
This card makes for some VERY fun infinite decks with Cloudstone Curio and BTE. Obviously, more of a "cute/fun" deck idea; but this is a card that could be strong in a lot of decks running 20+ creatures. Thoughts? May not be playable in Modern; but fun design for sure
I like all of the Monuments. The white one creates a token (which I WISH this green one did...would be strong in Chord decks) but I find the design really cool.
As an aside, this -1/-1 counter stuff looks pretty amazing for Stompy decks. There has to be some form of interaction with Strangleroot Geist, Avatar of the Resolute, Rishkar, etc. (and/or any other cards that can generate +1/+1 counters (Nissa, etc.) that can make one or two of these cards worthwhile in Stompy builds. It is fun to think about the possibilities even when nothing jumps out as a "playable" devotion card.
No. Your opportunity to activate mana abilities comes before the payment of costs when casting a spell. If you announce an intent to tap Spawn for convoke, but you sacrifice them for mana before you get to point where you're paying the costs, you are no longer able to tap the now-dead Spawn for convoke. The casting of the spell is now illegal, and you have to back up to just before you announced the spell.
:<
** EDIT **
Thanks for your help guys/gals! I spent a lot of time looking today to find a good explanation (for future readers here) that came after the rules change to Convoke (just to be certain). I've spoiler tagged it below.
Here is the best explanation I could find. The short answer is basically "that's the way Convoke works". It first started as a cost reduction tool, then was considered an "alternate cost"...now it's just a means to "pay" for cost of the spell. Regardless, however, convoke requires that you pay mana abilities prior to declaring the convoke total.
I know to many it seems counter-intuitive when compared to the way a lot of things work (it did to me, and this is most likely why it still works on MTGO). I had always assumed it worked the same way as Wall of Roots for a similar reason...but it makes sense given the above as technically you do play Wall of Roots's mana ability prior to the Convoke "cost". While some people "fudge" in practice (and can do so on MTGO)...they really are suppose to do the mana ability first and then cast/pay for the convoke spell. The mana from the ability should technically be in your mana pool before you declare your cost for Chord. The difference is that the Spawn sac's itself for it's mana ability (so it's not there to convoke).
Here are the rullings on Gathering for further detail (post the Convoke rules change):
7/18/2014 - The rules for convoke have changed slightly since it last appeared in an expansion. Previously, convoke reduced the cost to cast a spell. Under current rules, you tap creatures at the same time you pay the spell’s costs. Tapping a creature this way is simply another way to pay.
7/18/2014 - Convoke doesn’t change a spell’s mana cost or converted mana cost.
7/18/2014 - When calculating a spell’s total cost, include any alternative costs, additional costs, or anything else that increases or reduces the cost to cast the spell. Convoke applies after the total cost is calculated.
7/18/2014 - Because convoke isn’t an alternative cost, it can be used in conjunction with alternative costs.
7/18/2014 - Tapping a multicolored creature using convoke will pay for 1 or one mana of your choice of any of that creature’s colors.
7/18/2014 - When using convoke to cast a spell with Variable Colorless in its mana cost, first choose the value for X. That choice, plus any cost increases or decreases, will determine the spell’s total cost. Then you can tap creatures you control to help pay that cost. For example, if you cast Chord of Calling (a spell with convoke and mana cost Variable XGGG and choose X to be 3, the total cost is 3GGG . If you tap two green creatures and two red creatures, you’ll have to pay 1Green.
7/18/2014 - If a creature you control has a mana ability with Tap symbol in the cost, activating that ability while casting a spell with convoke will result in the creature being tapped when you pay the spell’s costs. You won’t be able to tap it again for convoke. Similarly, if you sacrifice a creature to activate a mana ability while casting a spell with convoke, that creature won’t be on the battlefield when you pay the spell’s costs, so you won’t be able to tap it for convoke.
I hope this helps for those who took it to be more like other activated abilities...a more detailed discussion is below.
These Gods are starting to worry me. Don't get me wrong. I think they are GREAT design (and I am generally much more for cards that are extremely powerful in narrow situations rather than just "pushed" in overall power...I just hope the Green God works for us Selfish I know...
What will be the Green God's "can't attack/block" set back? I'm ok with (a) a certain number of creatures on board and/or (b) a certain power/toughness on board. Let's keep our fingers crossed
P.S. Even if the double mana for the Spawn doesn't work...I'm still keeping Nest Invader for now. I will think about how lines would differ it if was a Burning-Tree Emissary as I play...but right now I feel the two bodies and potential for future ramp is more important (to my deck) than the 2-mana on ETB. This may not be the case with most decks (i.e. Pact decks) as BTE is amazing with Pact...but for Chord decks there they are much closer.
P.S. Ross Merriam provided a video where he plays a single round with a Pact deck a few days back. I can't remember if I posted it or not so I wanted to post here too:
He loses; but there is very little you can take from his single round. Regardless, however, he does discuss the deck and what he likes about it! He too discussed Pact-ing for BTE (as I did when I played the deck) to string together BTE's for big turns...and how it becomes a "ritual effect". This is the perfect wording for what I often discuss as the reason to play the Pact deck when compared to other lists. BTE is so good with Pact and Nykthos that it is not just a way to have more copies of "win cons" or hate; but can literally facilitate the smoothing/explosiveness of the deck as well. I wish I was able to word it as well as he had
Yea, I'm a little hesitant about Rhona as well. It looks like she will only have 1 green symbol, if the other two are any indication, which is a little disappointing. I'm hoping that her activated ability is useful as a mana sink.
I watched the Digest from Ross when it came out. He kind of got worked over unfortunately. Also, he had the ability to play Prime Time at the end but didn't, I was pulling my hair out
Yea, I'm a little hesitant about Rhona as well. It looks like she will only have 1 green symbol, if the other two are any indication, which is a little disappointing. I'm hoping that her activated ability is useful as a mana sink.
I watched the Digest from Ross when it came out. He kind of got worked over unfortunately. Also, he had the ability to play Prime Time at the end but didn't, I was pulling my hair out
Yeah...I had a feeling he didn't really study the deck before playing it. One of the comments is a guy saying he was screaming at his phone The prime-time miss was pretty bad...
But he did give a little more exposure to the deck; so that's a good thing.
This card makes for some VERY fun infinite decks with Cloudstone Curio and BTE. Obviously, more of a "cute/fun" deck idea; but this is a card that could be strong in a lot of decks running 20+ creatures. Thoughts? May not be playable in Modern; but fun design for sure
Hidden Herbalists also generates infinite green mana if paired with another one or infinite red mana with BTE, but I agree it's probably on the too cute side of things.
It seems that this would work, but why would you play Young Wolf in this deck in the first place ? Strangleroot Geist is much better and doesn't see play.
I haven't tried it but I really want to answer their strategy with direct damage. What's the fireball with flashback?
Edit to add Devil's Play is the card I was thinking of. Triple red is pretty rough on the flashback cost, but at least it isn't totally dead if they hit it with discard.
As for Devil's Play, it seems pretty impossible to get enough X mana generated to burn out a big goyf or shadow. I don't think we want to try any sort of damage-based destroy effects for their creatures.
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
Deathtouch blockers might help; they are usually winning with disruption plus one or two beefy under costed beaters. We need something that doesn't die to Tarfire... I guess Narnam Renegade could work in lists that consistently hit revolt.
Primal Command though can deal with both their Death's Shadows and their GY, it is by far our best card in the match-up imho (and the best card in the deck as well).
As for cards like Scavenging Ooze and Loaming Shaman, I hate to say it, but they are too slow! The Death Shadow deck runs so much discard that they will no doubt see it before turn 3, when they are useful! My thoughts on Relic was such that it was fast enough to dodge the discard, as well as negating their maindeck removal suite of Fatal Push and Tarfire. In addition, it exiles BOTH graveyards, which I think is incredibly relevant. When playing against Death's Shadow initially, it seemed like a one-time Primal Command was good enough to slow them down (by gaining them 7 life and shuffling their graveyard in). However, their deck is incredibly scrappy. By not removing your own graveyard, their goyfs will still be at least 3/4's, and grow bigger from there. Relic neuters this plan completely, and provides a consistent source of graveyard hate. That's why it's my tech of preference.
It's worth noting that this is mostly in respect to the Jund version of DS. I think the same rules could be applied to Grixis too though, since they also lean on their graveyard as a resource. Esper I have no idea
The list I've been testing recently has been relatively straight forward. I decided to try a very linear take on my "overwhelm" (and focus mainly on maximizing Garruk Wildspeaker, Chord of Calling, and Craterhoof Behemoth...
4x Arbor Elf
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Nest Invader
3x Eternal Witness
2x Wistful Selkie
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Ranger of Eos
1x Walking Ballista
2x Woodland Bellower
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Hornet Queen
4x Utopia Sprawl
Planeswalkers
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
Instants
4x Chord of Calling
Lands
8x Green Fetch Land
6x Forest
1x Temple Garden
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Harmonic Sliver
1x Loaming Shaman
3x Trinisphere
3x Lush Growth
1x Walking Ballista
2x Genesis Hydra
1x Flex
The board is based on two current ideas in testing ( Trinisphere and Lush Growth )....beyond that it is the "normal" cards.
The choice of Nest Invader came about because I've played it in the past and it just came to me while I was playing a match against a Kiki-Chord deck...I thought about Wall of Roots counting as 2-mana for Chord and thought "that would be great for my deck if it didn't have defender...". Then I remembered Nest Invader
Nest Invader can actually count as 3-mana for a Chord of Calling. You can tap both the Invader and the token and then sacrifice the token for another mana. It's also good with Garruk and Craterhoof as it is two bodies in one card.
Invader also provides means of ramping in an additional way...I can't guarantee it's great in the deck yet (I've only tested it for a few days now); but I wanted to simplify the Chord deck (main deck) to focus on "overwhelming" with bodies. I'll let you know how it goes.
I do think we are going to get 1-2 new cards in Amonkhet; however with their focus on swinging the answer/creature pendulum back again I don't see us getting as much as we did in the past few years (I.e. Not as many viable permanents on a per-set basis).
Let's just hope the Green God is amazing🤞🏻
______
** EDIT **
Trying Ranger of Eos and Waking Ballista main rather than Fairground Warden and Duskwatch Recruiter...makes me a little weaker to "can't search library" effects and very weak to "not ETB" effects (Torpor Orb, etc.) but that is something to worry about if and when they become part of the meta.
______
I may try the Cycle-Land (Scattered Groves) today too...if I do I'll let you know how it goes.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=112210
MODERN: Pure Pili-ness GU // Red Devotion RR // Green Devotion Variants GRWUG // U/G Emerge CGU // Lots and Lots of Brews BGRUWC
I'll look into this a littler harder to be safe (as I just took my initial understanding and past experiences with the cards without consulting a judge). It does work on MTGO; which I know is not always a 100$ guarantee something is legal...but at minimum even in the strictest of "stack" senses it still works. I've not had a player that I played against tell me it didn't work (again, doesn't mean much; but is my experience).
I did't see how the wording stops this from happening. Much like how Wall of Roots's mana-generating ability does not cause it to tap, the same is true of Eldrazi Spawns...
Convoke states" "Your creatures can help cast this spell. Each creature you tap while casting this spell pays for 1 or one mana of that creature's color."
Spawns state: "Sacrifice this creature: Add 1 to your mana pool.
So when you cast Chord of Calling, you "convoke" the token (by tapping it). This, however, does not "turn off" the Spawn's activated ability of sacrificing it for 1-mana (as the ability does not require tapping the spawn). They are separate of one another. Since this can be activated at "instant speed" it can be used to generate mana for casting Chord of Calling.
I tried to think of other examples...I thought of perhaps of Fullminator Mage. "Convoking" Fullminator Mage (at least in my understanding) would not "turn off" its ability to be sacrificed to destroy a land (even while you are convoking).
I, however, am not a judge. If anyone on here is a judge; please do chime in and let us know in a more "judge-like" manner (as I'm sure my explanation is rife with errors/poor wording). There could also be a bug in MTGO that allows it (it could be just a coincidence that my understanding of how it works simply works in MTGO because the programmer had the same understanding).
I certainly hope it works because thus far it's been really cool! I have been working on finding one more way to "pump" everyone. The board fills up VERY quickly and while Garruk and Craterhoof will win a majority of the time; I'd like one more "pump" if I can do it. Right now, my two options are:
1. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar - Right now, I'm working on replacing one card for a Nissa. She works well because she can both pump and provide creatures to be overran/convoked. I currently removed an Eternal Witness (only because an early one is not that great) but I will test the removal of a single copy of multiple cards.
2. Gavony Township - Obviously, mana-sinks are amazing in Devotion. I don't know if it is possible to just replace a Horizon Canopy or fetch land with this and not see too many issues...but when you get into 5 or more colorless lands you start getting into "could effect your early turns" territory.
I'm currently trying both. I'll let you know how it goes.
Another random card I wanted to get in the sideboard (due to all the ETB effects) was Eldrazi Displacer...the issue is that I just haven't figured out a way to consistently produce enough colorless mana (as most times you will use Nykthos for Green mana). Oh well...can't have it all
No. Your opportunity to activate mana abilities comes before the payment of costs when casting a spell. If you announce an intent to tap Spawn for convoke, but you sacrifice them for mana before you get to point where you're paying the costs, you are no longer able to tap the now-dead Spawn for convoke. The casting of the spell is now illegal, and you have to back up to just before you announced the spell.
:<
This card makes for some VERY fun infinite decks with Cloudstone Curio and BTE. Obviously, more of a "cute/fun" deck idea; but this is a card that could be strong in a lot of decks running 20+ creatures. Thoughts? May not be playable in Modern; but fun design for sure
I like all of the Monuments. The white one creates a token (which I WISH this green one did...would be strong in Chord decks) but I find the design really cool.
As an aside, this -1/-1 counter stuff looks pretty amazing for Stompy decks. There has to be some form of interaction with Strangleroot Geist, Avatar of the Resolute, Rishkar, etc. (and/or any other cards that can generate +1/+1 counters (Nissa, etc.) that can make one or two of these cards worthwhile in Stompy builds. It is fun to think about the possibilities even when nothing jumps out as a "playable" devotion card.
** EDIT **
Thanks for your help guys/gals! I spent a lot of time looking today to find a good explanation (for future readers here) that came after the rules change to Convoke (just to be certain). I've spoiler tagged it below.
Here is the best explanation I could find. The short answer is basically "that's the way Convoke works". It first started as a cost reduction tool, then was considered an "alternate cost"...now it's just a means to "pay" for cost of the spell. Regardless, however, convoke requires that you pay mana abilities prior to declaring the convoke total.
I know to many it seems counter-intuitive when compared to the way a lot of things work (it did to me, and this is most likely why it still works on MTGO). I had always assumed it worked the same way as Wall of Roots for a similar reason...but it makes sense given the above as technically you do play Wall of Roots's mana ability prior to the Convoke "cost". While some people "fudge" in practice (and can do so on MTGO)...they really are suppose to do the mana ability first and then cast/pay for the convoke spell. The mana from the ability should technically be in your mana pool before you declare your cost for Chord. The difference is that the Spawn sac's itself for it's mana ability (so it's not there to convoke).
Here are the rullings on Gathering for further detail (post the Convoke rules change):
7/18/2014 - Convoke doesn’t change a spell’s mana cost or converted mana cost.
7/18/2014 - When calculating a spell’s total cost, include any alternative costs, additional costs, or anything else that increases or reduces the cost to cast the spell. Convoke applies after the total cost is calculated.
7/18/2014 - Because convoke isn’t an alternative cost, it can be used in conjunction with alternative costs.
7/18/2014 - Tapping a multicolored creature using convoke will pay for 1 or one mana of your choice of any of that creature’s colors.
7/18/2014 - When using convoke to cast a spell with Variable Colorless in its mana cost, first choose the value for X. That choice, plus any cost increases or decreases, will determine the spell’s total cost. Then you can tap creatures you control to help pay that cost. For example, if you cast Chord of Calling (a spell with convoke and mana cost Variable XGGG and choose X to be 3, the total cost is 3GGG . If you tap two green creatures and two red creatures, you’ll have to pay 1Green.
7/18/2014 - If a creature you control has a mana ability with Tap symbol in the cost, activating that ability while casting a spell with convoke will result in the creature being tapped when you pay the spell’s costs. You won’t be able to tap it again for convoke. Similarly, if you sacrifice a creature to activate a mana ability while casting a spell with convoke, that creature won’t be on the battlefield when you pay the spell’s costs, so you won’t be able to tap it for convoke.
I hope this helps for those who took it to be more like other activated abilities...a more detailed discussion is below.
What will be the Green God's "can't attack/block" set back? I'm ok with (a) a certain number of creatures on board and/or (b) a certain power/toughness on board. Let's keep our fingers crossed
P.S. Even if the double mana for the Spawn doesn't work...I'm still keeping Nest Invader for now. I will think about how lines would differ it if was a Burning-Tree Emissary as I play...but right now I feel the two bodies and potential for future ramp is more important (to my deck) than the 2-mana on ETB. This may not be the case with most decks (i.e. Pact decks) as BTE is amazing with Pact...but for Chord decks there they are much closer.
P.S. Ross Merriam provided a video where he plays a single round with a Pact deck a few days back. I can't remember if I posted it or not so I wanted to post here too:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34833_Video-Daily-Digest-A-Motion-To-Devotion.html
He loses; but there is very little you can take from his single round. Regardless, however, he does discuss the deck and what he likes about it! He too discussed Pact-ing for BTE (as I did when I played the deck) to string together BTE's for big turns...and how it becomes a "ritual effect". This is the perfect wording for what I often discuss as the reason to play the Pact deck when compared to other lists. BTE is so good with Pact and Nykthos that it is not just a way to have more copies of "win cons" or hate; but can literally facilitate the smoothing/explosiveness of the deck as well. I wish I was able to word it as well as he had
I watched the Digest from Ross when it came out. He kind of got worked over unfortunately. Also, he had the ability to play Prime Time at the end but didn't, I was pulling my hair out
Yeah...I had a feeling he didn't really study the deck before playing it. One of the comments is a guy saying he was screaming at his phone The prime-time miss was pretty bad...
But he did give a little more exposure to the deck; so that's a good thing.
Hidden Herbalists also generates infinite green mana if paired with another one or infinite red mana with BTE, but I agree it's probably on the too cute side of things.
Strangleroot Geist is much better and doesn't see play.
It might be more suited to the "Mono Green Stompy" deck though they already have decent 2-drops
(Avatar of the Resolute, Kalonian Tusker/Garruk's Companion and maybe also the new Greenwheel Liberator).