I agree, it does feel like there is a lot more we can do with that card. We don't have to completely build around it either. I still kept 3x Summoner's Pact in my build along with my 3 big beaters (Craterhoof, Hornet Queen, Primeval Titan) and still won games without drawing Eldritch Evolution. I'm excited to see what results you can come up with. My dream scenario was to also sneak in a cheat to cast Iona, Shield of Emeria on turn 2 or 3. I think this can be accomplished by having 1x Allosaurus Rider with 4x Summoner's Pact, but that is still more of a christmas situation to get her out on turn two and not lose to Summoner's Pact on the following turn.
I've also been searching for a 4 cmc creature with costing cast GGGG, but I don't think that exists. It would be nice to throw down GGGG on turn two to better pair up with Nykthos.
I think this deck can also be more of a control devotion deck with multiple Acidic slimes coming off Kitchen Finks + Elditch Evolution. Not to mention having a very consistent way to cast Magus of the Moon on turn two by sacrificing your arbor elf or bird of paradise. I also can't wait to shut down Affinity using Katakari War Wage.
ok so tonight was thursday modern night there were 20 something players (usually we have 30+) I finished 5-0 undefeated.
As promised I will be posting my decklist but that will have to wait until tommorrow its currently 1:30 am.
match 1, vs gw hatebears, 2-0 victory. both games he played stuff, both games i played more bigger stuff and won. game 2 was weird i have 15+ creatures out and then played craterhoof lol.
match 2, vs nihiri jeskai, 2-0 victory.
games one lasted 30 mins because he refused to concede dispite being at 1 health and having 0 outs. Game 2 i beat him in 6 mins with 14min to spare.
match 3, vs dredge, 2-1 victory.
game 1 he double conflagrates me. game 2 i play a few titans and primal command his grave for a quick win. game 3 i scavenging ooze him and swing for 25 using kessig to buff my creature.
match 4, vs gr scapeshift, 2-0.
not much to say he never really did anything special outside of anger of the god on turn 3 in game 1.
match 5, vs bant eldrazi, 2-0 victory. he got really angry because i said it was a close game :|
game 1 lagged but primeval titan + primal command won it. game 2 i was losing but eventualy got a foothold, I won by using genesis wave on 7 followed by genesis wave on 11 the following turn. hornet queen was the mvp in game 2, i would not have survived without her to block his flyer.
won 30 dollars, wanted to buy 30 snacks but it was not allowed so i got a modernmaster pack annd 3 twixs. pack gave crap cards because of course, currently have 7$ store credit left.
ok so tonight was thursday modern night there were 20 something players (usually we have 30+) I finished 5-0 undefeated.
As promised I will be posting my decklist but that will have to wait until tommorrow its currently 1:30 am.
match 1, vs gw hatebears, 2-0 victory. both games he played stuff, both games i played more bigger stuff and won. game 2 was weird i have 15+ creatures out and then played craterhoof lol.
match 2, vs nihiri jeskai, 2-0 victory.
games one lasted 30 mins because he refused to concede dispite being at 1 health and having 0 outs. Game 2 i beat him in 6 mins with 14min to spare.
match 3, vs dredge, 2-1 victory.
game 1 he double conflagrates me. game 2 i play a few titans and primal command his grave for a quick win. game 3 i scavenging ooze him and swing for 25 using kessig to buff my creature.
match 4, vs gr scapeshift, 2-0.
not much to say he never really did anything special outside of anger of the god on turn 3 in game 1.
match 5, vs bant eldrazi, 2-0 victory. he got really angry because i said it was a close game :|
game 1 lagged but primeval titan + primal command won it. game 2 i was losing but eventualy got a foothold, I won by using genesis wave on 7 followed by genesis wave on 11 the following turn. hornet queen was the mvp in game 2, i would not have survived without her to block his flyer.
won 30 dollars, wanted to buy 30 snacks but it was not allowed so i got a modernmaster pack annd 3 twixs. pack gave crap cards because of course, currently have 7$ store credit left.
if you guys have any questions feel free to ask.
quick note in preparation for the 1k ptq this sunday i swapped out the 1 of bonefire of the damned for Ruric Thar, the Unbowed. Reason being that I am expecting some storm and ad nauseam plus having one extra card to block flyers doesn't hurt.
@Lorddarkview: I think your categorizing of cards to display a deck you showed two pages back makes it a lot easier to analyze a deck. (That's why I used it here). Although Kiora is either Ramp or Utility, harder to categorize.
There was a great discussion about Oath of Nissa. After losing a game off Oath(revealed 2 Genesis Wave 1 Nykthos (already in play)) I was innerly ordering myself back to the drawing table.
Decklist I was playing:
The first thing I noticed with this way of listing decklist ist that Planeswalker cut into the Power cards (except Karn). This is quite important as threat density is one of the core issues of the deck. You need to be playing expensive spells with devastating impact. While Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Kiora, Master of the Depths do great things, they're not game ending on their own.
Choosing the power cards: I noticed that this should be done before selecting your utility creatures. If you go Spell Heavy (Genesis Wave) or Creature based (Genesis Hyra, Wolfbriar) strongly influences the utility cards that empower the specific power cards. While this seems rather obvious, it's something I was not paying enough attention to.
With these considerations in mind, this is what I came up with:
Oath can hit Everything except 7 Spells (4xSprawls & 3x Primal Command).
Kiora hits everything but 14 cards (4x Sprawl, 3x Primal Command, 7x Planeswalkers). BUT all but 3 Power cards.
Kitchen finks (which has been my MVP lately) and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar synergy.
Trying to reduce the nonbo of Genesis Hydra into Wolfbriar Elemental with just a 1of.
Back to the basics as lorddarkview calls it. More Timmy, less combo.
On the Fertile Ground / Overgrowth vs Voyaging Satyr: I think the biggest drawbacks of the enchantments are that they cannot be hit with either Oath or Kiora. But the enchantments are a lot more useful than a (worst case) 2 mana creature that ramps for +1 mana.
Considering this, Oath is propably the card you can cut for Fertile Ground/Overgrowth.
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Modern: GNykthos Devotion - Eldrazi Tron - RW Boros Burn - UW UW Control
In terms of power level it cannot compete with some of the staples.
But the card gives you a choice, something I always like about a card (big fan of all charms and commands). When you look at the choices it offers they do not overwhelm:
1B: Best case scenario: Tap a Cranial Plating equipped creature and hit them for some 8+ damage. All of this at sorcery speed. This means they can still attack you next turn. And you've only added a 2/2 without evasion to the board.
2U: Might be great in a grindy matchup. Absolutely useless against some decks (e.g. dredge). However they get to choose the cards they discard, so they can just get rid of everything but what they need to win.
But it is a creature and can be tutored in many ways, except Woodland Bellower (dont think you want to cast it w/o kicker).
If Ana Battlemage had Flash, he might be playable. As is, he is underwhelming.
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Modern: GNykthos Devotion - Eldrazi Tron - RW Boros Burn - UW UW Control
Hey guys, I've been interested in this deck for a while now, and have finally gotten around to building it. I have most of the Tooth and Nail stock list from the primer built, and have questions on some of the interactions. If you have a Utopia Sprawl in play enchanting a stomping grounds, and you cast blood moon, does the moon turn off the Utopia Sprawl?
Also if you enchant Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx with Overgrowth, does activating Nykthos' devotion abitlity add two mana from overgrowth as well? It is a mana ability, and overgrowth states that specifically.
This looks like a great deck, with a strong community behind it. I hope I can contribute in some way.
Hey everyone! What awesome discussions and lusts. I'm going to respond to each as there's so much there (a few awesome performances, some really awesome theory/ideas, and of course great lists.)
It seems like we've kind narrowed down the best "green devotion cards" and depending on at style preference you can play more combo/aggro or midrange/disruptive.
When Overgrowth is enchanting a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and you activate the 2t: ability it will add the GG at the same time your mana for the devotion you choose enters the mana pool. In other words the Overgrowth cant pay for the ability.
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Modern: GNykthos Devotion - Eldrazi Tron - RW Boros Burn - UW UW Control
jaccjacc: Thank you! I'm making some changes already, the rest of the deck won't be in until next week, and I play modern on monday, and every other friday, so I'll try to get some reports going.
So I went ahead and started building my toolbox deck around Eldritch Evolution and the results were interesting. I'm not winning very much right now, but I was able to get out a turn two Phyrexian Obliterator in more than half of the games I played. Turn 1 mana dork, turn two burning-tree emissary into the eldritch evolution into ANY four drop creature imaginable. Maybe I was being a little too cute by having that 4 drop be Pherexian Obliterator, but I also had 1x Wilt-leaf liege which I thought would work well with my 4x Strangleroot Geist and 4x kitchen finks. I've also been able to add cards like magus of the moon and katakari war wage to my side board because they can be easily tutored with eldritch evolution. I may drop the idea soon, but I was hoping someone with a little better deck building abilities could take this idea and run with it..
Wow...this seems kinda brilliant. The BTE thing makes a heck of a lot of sense. Then it's just a matter of having the best 6-drops around. Of course Strangleroot and Kitchen finks work amazingly well as well given the fact that they come right back What a cool idea.
There absolutely HAS to be something here....if you don't mind I may take a little stab at it and see if I can add anything; but what you've already come up with seems pretty impressive. I can't claim to be any better at building decks than anyone else; but I certainly enjoy it. The more minds on it the merrier. I think the best decks come out of an entire community too.
Thanks for spearheading this! I'm excited to see what comes of this. I'll let you know if I think of anything.
Anybody able to do more testing of this concept lately? I've been theorizing but unable to play for a few weeks. Really want to see what creatures we can get into play off the ramp into Eldritch Evolution. The main drawback to the card is the ability of your opponent to sit back and counter the evolution after you sac a creature. Using undying creatures helps but ramping into it and playing before they can get ready for it just might make it worth the risk.
Also, creatures that make tokens on death are stronger as the tokens could also be sacrificed in a pinch. Makes me at least want to try Wurmcoil again as a 1-of.
I'm a big newbie, but great fan of green. Love the color but never find a competitive deck to play. This option is amazing!
i follow this thread a few month ago and just now i decided to post something.
First i've so much doubt between run Tooth and Nail or Genesis wave, kind of choose the genesis wave (despite not having yet GW).
Mana base is almost the same of all you posted,just want know why Gaea Revenge can not be an option? I run 1 of together a Cratehoof and another crap things meanwhile doens't take a Atarka or something else. I've trainning with a friend and his UW Tron version and i think was pretty sweet, he can't deal with Gaes when ETB.
Sure i loose another game when he cast Iona.
So, it is, i know that is seems like a dumb question but i'll apreciate all opinion you guys can give to me.
2 Primal Command
4 Utopia Sprawl ( using temporally 3 Fertile Ground)
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Garruk Wild Speak
2 Harmonize
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gaea Revenge
1 Kozilek the great distortion ( i'll change)
1 Terra Stomper (is in my bulk so why not? xD)
It's not the final version that i've been tinking, of course, but i use this cards 'cause it is what i have in this moment. It is preety sweet.
Again, i apologize if i making some mistake.
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Modern W Death & Taxes W WB Eldrazi & Taxes WB BW BW Eldrazi BW G Green Devotion G RW Norin Sisters RW GB Delirium Emrakul's end GB
Duel CmD W Thalia, Guardian of Thraben W BW Karlov BW
I started with the stock Tooth and Nail/Blood Moon list from the primer, I cut two forests, and a harmonize for three Oath's of Nissa, and also switched out a blood moon for a magus so I can tutor with primal command if I needed it. I took thislist to a local tournament last night.
Lesson learned: Because this list ran so many non-creature spells, Oath does not work all that well. From this experience it also feels like Tooth and Nail decks need Vines of Vastwood, or some kind of interaction badly, I was blown out in three games due to losing a mana dork.
I went 2-2
My sideboard:
1 Spellskite,
1 Crumble to Dust,
1 Creeping Corrosion,
2 Nature's Claim,
1 Wurmcoil Engine,
1 Boseiju,
2 Obstinate Baloth,
2 Boil,
1 Blood Moon,
3 Guttural Response
Match 1 against Dave with Scapeshift 2 - 1
Game 1: We both started with slow hands he suspended a search for tomorrow, and just kept on making land drops, I played satyr on curve, and was hoping to play overgrowth the turn after, he electrolized my satyr, and Cryptic counter/draw my overgrowth the turn after, then went on to scapeshift and kill me
SB:
-3 Oath of Nissa, forest, 2 command
+3 Guttural Response, 1 Boseiju, 1 Blood Moon, Crumble to dust
Game 2: I had to mull a trash hand, and kept one with arbor elf, blood moon, utopia sprawl, a command, a fetchland, and some other stuff.
It was a really slow game, I dropped a late blood moon, and drew into alot of fetches, but he had enough basics up to cast Cryptic command, and I just powered through the counters, I also remember countering an Electrolize with Guttural Response to save a dork.
Game three I had an early blood moon, and counter back up, and it ended with a turn five or six tooth and nail, because I couldn't find a ramp enchantment.
Match 2 against Tran with r/g scapeshift 0 - 2
Game 1: We durdle for a few turns, on turn three he bolts my dork a turn before I go off, droped a fetch, then cast through the breech, into titan, into valakuts, into more valakuts, and fetched a mountain and I died that same turn. He didn't even know what I was playing.
SB:
- 3 Oaths of Nissa
+ Blood Moon, crumble to dust, and a spellskite
Game 2: I mulled a trash hand with, Emrakul, while some one mentioned having to mull because of having an Emrakul as well, and we all joked about Emrakuls.
He made five land drops, played through the breech, Emrakul, while I went land, dork, land, land, Garruk, land. I just scooped after he wiped my board.
I found out after he just sided in some more Emrakuls, and through the breeches, because he saw so little of my deck.
Match 3 Sean with Blue Tron 2 - 1
Game 1: I went turn 1 dork into turn two overgrowth, turn three fetched for a stomping grounds to hard cast Xenagod, he tries to condescend, but didn't realize that overgrowth added two, and that I had mana to pay, I cast oath, and withness the turn after, attacked with witness, and Xenagod, he doesn't assemble tron, and scoops.
SB:
-3 oaths, -3 blood moons
+3 Guttural Response, 2 Boil, 1 crumble to dust
I've played against this match up plenty of times, and blood moon actually doesn't do very much, so out they went.
Game 2
He goes turn one Graft Digger's cage
I land drop, play dork, and started to sweat,
He spatial contortion my dork
I land drop and played another dork
He land drops and passes turn
I miss my land drop, and try to cast overgrowth, he counters
He land drops, and plays Thought Knot, asks to read the tooth and nail that I had in hand, and exiled the crumble to dust that I was trying to ramp into.
I drew another tooth and nail, but only had eight mana, and thought that Graft Digger's cage prevented me pulling creatures out of my library any ways, so I just casted, and chose tutor mode, and pulled my win cons. End of turn he tries to cast Epiphany at the Drownyard that I countered with Guttural Response, but he top decks an O stone any ways.
he has tron assembled at this point, and drops the O stone.
At this point I was at three life, enough mana to cast my second tooth and nail and put win cons in, but he had O stone mana up. I drew a boil, boiled away his lands, and passed, he fated his thought knot eot.
His turn he blows the O stone and won.
Lesson Learned: Graft Diggers cage does not stop tooth and nail, since cards go to your hand, and then you put them into play. I didn't know this, though I didn't have the mana up any ways.
Game 3:
I went dork into overgrowth, into titan, with protection back up, and he died to titan/Kessig.
match 4 with Chuck, and mono red Burn
Game 1:
He plays three vexing devils in succession, and I died very quickly.
SB:
-3 Blood moon
+ 2 Baloth, and 1 Wurmcoil
Game 2:
I keep a decent hand, but didn't matter, He played mountain into swift spear, into mountain into swift spear bolt your dork, swing, into abbot of keral keep revealing a mountain which he plays, lava spike me, swing with team, into abbot of keral keep reveal land, play land, searing blaze, and I died.
This deck can very clunky at times, and is pretty soft to disruption, but its pretty fun, I'm gonna tweak it a little more, and try to make room for some Vines of Vastwood. We'll see how it turns out. Happy gaming my fellow Green Devouts!
BlindDefender1 welcome to Green Devo! It's a blast to play and had lots of different builds. The choice between Tooth and Nail / GWave is a classic. I prefer GWave but both can do serious work if built to suit them. I also love to include Gaea's Revenge as a finisher, but you'll find lots of options in the primer. I think the best thing about Green Devo is that there is no "best" build yet. It's just a ton of different fun and competitive builds.
I have been thinking about getting into devotion for a while and had a question: do any lists focus exclusively on getting the eternal witness primal command loop? And in general how often does it come up in games?
Thanks ahead of time.
On phone will add card tags later.
Thanks! I suspect there might actually be room for Wolf Run in the list, as I suspect it might be viable to go down to 2 Valakut. I just haven't had the time to really test it. I'd suggest throwing the deck together on Cockatrice (or whatever the kids are using these days), just to see how it feels. It doesn't look like that much of a deviation from the usual Wave lists, but Valakut does a ton of work to make casting even value Genesis Waves game ending.
@jaccjacc
Don't forge that Oath can't hit other oaths, so that'd bump the number to 10 cards each oath might whiff on. For whatever that might do to your math.
I agree completely on your suggestions on how to categorize the cards and where to start from when building a Nykthos list. I think doing so also highlights a major advantage to Garruk Wildspeaker compared to the two planeswalkers you listed. As he very often represents lethal on the next turn. Especially in lists with more creatures on the low end.
My random thoughts on Eldritch Evolution:
I think you're either going to have to convert to full combo, or find a more midrangey shell in order to make it work. I don't think combo is the way to go, as project X, or a similar Melira-esque combo will simply do the same thing but better. Midrange seems like a good place to be. I'd likely start with a very old mono-green list, the ones that used to run a full set of Acidic Slime in addition to command. Having them as a consistent 5 drop to jump to means you can work to slow the opponent down while you get ahead.
The only other things I was thinking about were:
- Your 4 drops seem pretty crucial. We're typically pretty thin there, and being able to jump to Titans seems important.
- Evolution likely requires a much higher creature count, and it's entirely possible it just won't jive with the Utopia Sprawl core.
- Decimator of the Provinces seems like it belongs in a deck with Acidic Slines, but it also occupies a weird mana slot where you can't evolve Titans to get it. Reveillark also seems very well placed with Slime and Evolution (in terms of value potential).
(Edited for clarity, and because text codes are torture on the phone)
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Hey man. I'm running one of the tooth and nail lists from the primer at the moment, and its one of few that run a full set of commands, so I think that would be the list you're looking for.
Almost everytime I cast Command, my second mode was to go grab witness to recur it, I would think that its pretty relevant, gain life, grave shuffle, and artifact/enchantment removal are both very powerful in modern, but I've mostly used it to put lands on top, and buying time while I hope to draw into something to close out the game.
I have been thinking about getting into devotion for a while and had a question: do any lists focus exclusively on getting the eternal witness primal command loop? And in general how often does it come up in games?
Thanks ahead of time.
On phone will add card tags later.
Hey man. I'm running one of the tooth and nail lists from the primer at the moment, and its one of few that run a full set of commands, so I think that would be the list you're looking for.
Almost everytime I cast Command, my second mode was to go grab witness to recur it, I would think that its pretty relevant, gain life, grave shuffle, and artifact/enchantment removal are both very powerful in modern, but I've mostly used it to put lands on top, and buying time while I hope to draw into something to close out the game.
I consider the Command-Witness loop to be one of the best ways to win games. Maybe even the best way. There is a reason that 4 Command and 3-4 Witnesses have been in every build since I got them. The combo starts at 5 mana (most other wins require 6+, like Titan), and even on its first iteration it starts accumulating card advantage (and, if you have Nykthos, mounting mana advantage). Sometimes I even run Temur Sabertooth, which can make the loop infinitely recursive.
lord_darkview: Thanks for the response, I like your Nyx Prime list, and will try it this coming Monday, I'm struggling with what to cut when sideboarding, do you have any advice? Also could you share some side board choices? Thank you!
I've also been searching for a 4 cmc creature with costing cast GGGG, but I don't think that exists. It would be nice to throw down GGGG on turn two to better pair up with Nykthos.
I think this deck can also be more of a control devotion deck with multiple Acidic slimes coming off Kitchen Finks + Elditch Evolution. Not to mention having a very consistent way to cast Magus of the Moon on turn two by sacrificing your arbor elf or bird of paradise. I also can't wait to shut down Affinity using Katakari War Wage.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
?x Summoner's Pact
4x Arbor Elf
?x Birds of Paradise
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Nykthos
4x Garruk
This is the core that I would like to work around and find a place for eldritch evolution if possible.
As promised I will be posting my decklist but that will have to wait until tommorrow its currently 1:30 am.
match 1, vs gw hatebears, 2-0 victory. both games he played stuff, both games i played more bigger stuff and won. game 2 was weird i have 15+ creatures out and then played craterhoof lol.
match 2, vs nihiri jeskai, 2-0 victory.
games one lasted 30 mins because he refused to concede dispite being at 1 health and having 0 outs. Game 2 i beat him in 6 mins with 14min to spare.
match 3, vs dredge, 2-1 victory.
game 1 he double conflagrates me. game 2 i play a few titans and primal command his grave for a quick win. game 3 i scavenging ooze him and swing for 25 using kessig to buff my creature.
match 4, vs gr scapeshift, 2-0.
not much to say he never really did anything special outside of anger of the god on turn 3 in game 1.
match 5, vs bant eldrazi, 2-0 victory. he got really angry because i said it was a close game :|
game 1 lagged but primeval titan + primal command won it. game 2 i was losing but eventualy got a foothold, I won by using genesis wave on 7 followed by genesis wave on 11 the following turn. hornet queen was the mvp in game 2, i would not have survived without her to block his flyer.
won 30 dollars, wanted to buy 30 snacks but it was not allowed so i got a modernmaster pack annd 3 twixs. pack gave crap cards because of course, currently have 7$ store credit left.
if you guys have any questions feel free to ask.
quick note in preparation for the 1k ptq this sunday i swapped out the 1 of bonefire of the damned for Ruric Thar, the Unbowed. Reason being that I am expecting some storm and ad nauseam plus having one extra card to block flyers doesn't hurt.
Thank you jaccjacc.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Voyaging Satyr
Utility / Defense (13)
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Eternal Witness
2 Wistful Selkie
1 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Oath of Nissa
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Primal Command
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Hornet Queen
2 Genesis Wave
4 Primeval Titan
Lands (21)
8 forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Stomping Ground
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
@Lorddarkview: I think your categorizing of cards to display a deck you showed two pages back makes it a lot easier to analyze a deck. (That's why I used it here). Although Kiora is either Ramp or Utility, harder to categorize.
There was a great discussion about Oath of Nissa. After losing a game off Oath(revealed 2 Genesis Wave 1 Nykthos (already in play)) I was innerly ordering myself back to the drawing table.
Decklist I was playing:
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
Utility / Defense (19)
3 Kiora, Master of the Depths
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Wistful Selkie
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Tireless Tracker
3 Genesis Wave
2 Primal Commands
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
Lands (20)
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
5 Forest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
The first thing I noticed with this way of listing decklist ist that Planeswalker cut into the Power cards (except Karn). This is quite important as threat density is one of the core issues of the deck. You need to be playing expensive spells with devastating impact. While Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Kiora, Master of the Depths do great things, they're not game ending on their own.
Choosing the power cards: I noticed that this should be done before selecting your utility creatures. If you go Spell Heavy (Genesis Wave) or Creature based (Genesis Hyra, Wolfbriar) strongly influences the utility cards that empower the specific power cards. While this seems rather obvious, it's something I was not paying enough attention to.
With these considerations in mind, this is what I came up with:
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
Utility (16)
4 Oath of Nissa
2 Kiora, Master of the Depths
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
4 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Primeval Titan
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Wolfbriar Elemental
2 Genesis Hydra
1 Dragonlord Atarka
1 Hornet Queen
3 Primal Command
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
7 Forest
Oath can hit Everything except 7 Spells (4xSprawls & 3x Primal Command).
Kiora hits everything but 14 cards (4x Sprawl, 3x Primal Command, 7x Planeswalkers). BUT all but 3 Power cards.
Kitchen finks (which has been my MVP lately) and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar synergy.
Trying to reduce the nonbo of Genesis Hydra into Wolfbriar Elemental with just a 1of.
Back to the basics as lorddarkview calls it. More Timmy, less combo.
On the Fertile Ground / Overgrowth vs Voyaging Satyr: I think the biggest drawbacks of the enchantments are that they cannot be hit with either Oath or Kiora. But the enchantments are a lot more useful than a (worst case) 2 mana creature that ramps for +1 mana.
Considering this, Oath is propably the card you can cut for Fertile Ground/Overgrowth.
It's an interesting card. Lets look at some cards it competes with:
In the 3 drop slot (the worst case scenario, a 2/2 for 3): Courser of Kruphix, Tireless Tracker, Kitchen Finks.
In the 5 Drop slot (1B Kicker): Acidic Slime, Primal Command
In the 6 Drop slot (2U Kicker): Primeval Titan and a lot more.
In terms of power level it cannot compete with some of the staples.
But the card gives you a choice, something I always like about a card (big fan of all charms and commands). When you look at the choices it offers they do not overwhelm:
1B: Best case scenario: Tap a Cranial Plating equipped creature and hit them for some 8+ damage. All of this at sorcery speed. This means they can still attack you next turn. And you've only added a 2/2 without evasion to the board.
2U: Might be great in a grindy matchup. Absolutely useless against some decks (e.g. dredge). However they get to choose the cards they discard, so they can just get rid of everything but what they need to win.
But it is a creature and can be tutored in many ways, except Woodland Bellower (dont think you want to cast it w/o kicker).
If Ana Battlemage had Flash, he might be playable. As is, he is underwhelming.
Also if you enchant Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx with Overgrowth, does activating Nykthos' devotion abitlity add two mana from overgrowth as well? It is a mana ability, and overgrowth states that specifically.
This looks like a great deck, with a strong community behind it. I hope I can contribute in some way.
RIP Karn EDH
It seems like we've kind narrowed down the best "green devotion cards" and depending on at style preference you can play more combo/aggro or midrange/disruptive.
I've been playing lot with Woodland Bellower which I know sounds odd; but I've really liked the interaction between Summoners Pact, Bellower, and Eternal Witness...
Of course it's great with Wistful Selkie in most games; and is good with sideboard cards like Kitchen Finks, Reclamation Sage, Loaming Shaman, etc.
Just thought I'd throw it out there. I'm also now running 4x Kiora (as her -2 can just take games over if you draw 3-4 cards over 2 turns.
I so badly wanted to make a combo deck; but I'll have to make due with Craterhoof as essentially my "combo" card
RIP Karn EDH
Anybody able to do more testing of this concept lately? I've been theorizing but unable to play for a few weeks. Really want to see what creatures we can get into play off the ramp into Eldritch Evolution. The main drawback to the card is the ability of your opponent to sit back and counter the evolution after you sac a creature. Using undying creatures helps but ramping into it and playing before they can get ready for it just might make it worth the risk.
Also, creatures that make tokens on death are stronger as the tokens could also be sacrificed in a pinch. Makes me at least want to try Wurmcoil again as a 1-of.
Some of my decks:
Oath Walker Devo - Modern
Stompy - Modern
Battle of Wits - Modern
Teysa's Sac Circus - EDH
Rob's 450 Unpowered - Cube
How you doing?
I'm a big newbie, but great fan of green. Love the color but never find a competitive deck to play. This option is amazing!
i follow this thread a few month ago and just now i decided to post something.
First i've so much doubt between run Tooth and Nail or Genesis wave, kind of choose the genesis wave (despite not having yet GW).
Mana base is almost the same of all you posted,just want know why Gaea Revenge can not be an option? I run 1 of together a Cratehoof and another crap things meanwhile doens't take a Atarka or something else. I've trainning with a friend and his UW Tron version and i think was pretty sweet, he can't deal with Gaes when ETB.
Sure i loose another game when he cast Iona.
So, it is, i know that is seems like a dumb question but i'll apreciate all opinion you guys can give to me.
Actually my "green devotion" it's it:
4 Arbor Elf
4 Llanowar Elves (i'll change)
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Eternal Witness
4 Burn-Tree Emissary
2 Courser of Kruphyx
2 Primal Command
4 Utopia Sprawl ( using temporally 3 Fertile Ground)
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Garruk Wild Speak
2 Harmonize
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Gaea Revenge
1 Kozilek the great distortion ( i'll change)
1 Terra Stomper (is in my bulk so why not? xD)
It's not the final version that i've been tinking, of course, but i use this cards 'cause it is what i have in this moment. It is preety sweet.
Again, i apologize if i making some mistake.
W Death & Taxes W
WB Eldrazi & Taxes WB
BW BW Eldrazi BW
G Green Devotion G
RW Norin Sisters RW
GB Delirium Emrakul's end GB
Duel CmD
W Thalia, Guardian of Thraben W
BW Karlov BW
Lesson learned: Because this list ran so many non-creature spells, Oath does not work all that well. From this experience it also feels like Tooth and Nail decks need Vines of Vastwood, or some kind of interaction badly, I was blown out in three games due to losing a mana dork.
I went 2-2
My sideboard:
1 Spellskite,
1 Crumble to Dust,
1 Creeping Corrosion,
2 Nature's Claim,
1 Wurmcoil Engine,
1 Boseiju,
2 Obstinate Baloth,
2 Boil,
1 Blood Moon,
3 Guttural Response
Match 1 against Dave with Scapeshift 2 - 1
Game 1: We both started with slow hands he suspended a search for tomorrow, and just kept on making land drops, I played satyr on curve, and was hoping to play overgrowth the turn after, he electrolized my satyr, and Cryptic counter/draw my overgrowth the turn after, then went on to scapeshift and kill me
SB:
-3 Oath of Nissa, forest, 2 command
+3 Guttural Response, 1 Boseiju, 1 Blood Moon, Crumble to dust
Game 2: I had to mull a trash hand, and kept one with arbor elf, blood moon, utopia sprawl, a command, a fetchland, and some other stuff.
It was a really slow game, I dropped a late blood moon, and drew into alot of fetches, but he had enough basics up to cast Cryptic command, and I just powered through the counters, I also remember countering an Electrolize with Guttural Response to save a dork.
Game three I had an early blood moon, and counter back up, and it ended with a turn five or six tooth and nail, because I couldn't find a ramp enchantment.
Match 2 against Tran with r/g scapeshift 0 - 2
Game 1: We durdle for a few turns, on turn three he bolts my dork a turn before I go off, droped a fetch, then cast through the breech, into titan, into valakuts, into more valakuts, and fetched a mountain and I died that same turn. He didn't even know what I was playing.
SB:
- 3 Oaths of Nissa
+ Blood Moon, crumble to dust, and a spellskite
Game 2: I mulled a trash hand with, Emrakul, while some one mentioned having to mull because of having an Emrakul as well, and we all joked about Emrakuls.
He made five land drops, played through the breech, Emrakul, while I went land, dork, land, land, Garruk, land. I just scooped after he wiped my board.
I found out after he just sided in some more Emrakuls, and through the breeches, because he saw so little of my deck.
Match 3 Sean with Blue Tron 2 - 1
Game 1: I went turn 1 dork into turn two overgrowth, turn three fetched for a stomping grounds to hard cast Xenagod, he tries to condescend, but didn't realize that overgrowth added two, and that I had mana to pay, I cast oath, and withness the turn after, attacked with witness, and Xenagod, he doesn't assemble tron, and scoops.
SB:
-3 oaths, -3 blood moons
+3 Guttural Response, 2 Boil, 1 crumble to dust
I've played against this match up plenty of times, and blood moon actually doesn't do very much, so out they went.
Game 2
He goes turn one Graft Digger's cage
I land drop, play dork, and started to sweat,
He spatial contortion my dork
I land drop and played another dork
He land drops and passes turn
I miss my land drop, and try to cast overgrowth, he counters
He land drops, and plays Thought Knot, asks to read the tooth and nail that I had in hand, and exiled the crumble to dust that I was trying to ramp into.
I drew another tooth and nail, but only had eight mana, and thought that Graft Digger's cage prevented me pulling creatures out of my library any ways, so I just casted, and chose tutor mode, and pulled my win cons. End of turn he tries to cast Epiphany at the Drownyard that I countered with Guttural Response, but he top decks an O stone any ways.
he has tron assembled at this point, and drops the O stone.
At this point I was at three life, enough mana to cast my second tooth and nail and put win cons in, but he had O stone mana up. I drew a boil, boiled away his lands, and passed, he fated his thought knot eot.
His turn he blows the O stone and won.
Lesson Learned: Graft Diggers cage does not stop tooth and nail, since cards go to your hand, and then you put them into play. I didn't know this, though I didn't have the mana up any ways.
Game 3:
I went dork into overgrowth, into titan, with protection back up, and he died to titan/Kessig.
match 4 with Chuck, and mono red Burn
Game 1:
He plays three vexing devils in succession, and I died very quickly.
SB:
-3 Blood moon
+ 2 Baloth, and 1 Wurmcoil
Game 2:
I keep a decent hand, but didn't matter, He played mountain into swift spear, into mountain into swift spear bolt your dork, swing, into abbot of keral keep revealing a mountain which he plays, lava spike me, swing with team, into abbot of keral keep reveal land, play land, searing blaze, and I died.
This deck can very clunky at times, and is pretty soft to disruption, but its pretty fun, I'm gonna tweak it a little more, and try to make room for some Vines of Vastwood. We'll see how it turns out. Happy gaming my fellow Green Devouts!
RIP Karn EDH
Some of my decks:
Oath Walker Devo - Modern
Stompy - Modern
Battle of Wits - Modern
Teysa's Sac Circus - EDH
Rob's 450 Unpowered - Cube
Thanks ahead of time.
On phone will add card tags later.
Thanks! I suspect there might actually be room for Wolf Run in the list, as I suspect it might be viable to go down to 2 Valakut. I just haven't had the time to really test it. I'd suggest throwing the deck together on Cockatrice (or whatever the kids are using these days), just to see how it feels. It doesn't look like that much of a deviation from the usual Wave lists, but Valakut does a ton of work to make casting even value Genesis Waves game ending.
@jaccjacc
Don't forge that Oath can't hit other oaths, so that'd bump the number to 10 cards each oath might whiff on. For whatever that might do to your math.
I agree completely on your suggestions on how to categorize the cards and where to start from when building a Nykthos list. I think doing so also highlights a major advantage to Garruk Wildspeaker compared to the two planeswalkers you listed. As he very often represents lethal on the next turn. Especially in lists with more creatures on the low end.
My random thoughts on Eldritch Evolution:
I think you're either going to have to convert to full combo, or find a more midrangey shell in order to make it work. I don't think combo is the way to go, as project X, or a similar Melira-esque combo will simply do the same thing but better. Midrange seems like a good place to be. I'd likely start with a very old mono-green list, the ones that used to run a full set of Acidic Slime in addition to command. Having them as a consistent 5 drop to jump to means you can work to slow the opponent down while you get ahead.
The only other things I was thinking about were:
- Your 4 drops seem pretty crucial. We're typically pretty thin there, and being able to jump to Titans seems important.
- Evolution likely requires a much higher creature count, and it's entirely possible it just won't jive with the Utopia Sprawl core.
- Decimator of the Provinces seems like it belongs in a deck with Acidic Slines, but it also occupies a weird mana slot where you can't evolve Titans to get it. Reveillark also seems very well placed with Slime and Evolution (in terms of value potential).
(Edited for clarity, and because text codes are torture on the phone)
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
Almost everytime I cast Command, my second mode was to go grab witness to recur it, I would think that its pretty relevant, gain life, grave shuffle, and artifact/enchantment removal are both very powerful in modern, but I've mostly used it to put lands on top, and buying time while I hope to draw into something to close out the game.
RIP Karn EDH
I consider the Command-Witness loop to be one of the best ways to win games. Maybe even the best way. There is a reason that 4 Command and 3-4 Witnesses have been in every build since I got them. The combo starts at 5 mana (most other wins require 6+, like Titan), and even on its first iteration it starts accumulating card advantage (and, if you have Nykthos, mounting mana advantage). Sometimes I even run Temur Sabertooth, which can make the loop infinitely recursive.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
RIP Karn EDH