The initial thought behind Assault Formation was that it is an "infinite mana sink" on top of it's use of making defenders big attackers. By giving "all creatures +0/+1 it essentially gives all creatures +1/+0; so with infinite mana you have infinitely large creatures (at 2-CMC). Like I said, I still don't think the deck is "there" yet; so I will most certainly try out the Treefolk version as well.
Cheating in an Emrakul into play is by far my favorite thing to do in magic. This list came across my decked app last night as a 4-0. It is a far cry from what we are trying to do on this forum. The list seems raw and some of the card choices are questionable. But it captured my imagination and there is still a lot of good going on here.
The lack Noble Hierarch and Path to Exile is notable. Summoner's Trap seems really well suited in Twin and Delver heavy meta. Just an interesting list that may need a touch of devotion
See that list already looks better. I would love to see it in action and see how often you hit what you are trying to hit. I know the point is to hit Emmy and "auto-win", but it wouldn't be hard to add a couple of Dragonlord Dromoka, Iona, Shield of Emeria or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite to max out your "winning" Traps and hideaways. And if you do that how much of a stretch is it swap out the weaker hideaway for some Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx for an additional ramp strategy? I'm just spitballing as this is the first time I've seen something like this.
Not sure how consistent it was; but it did beat out the field at the IQ. I did see him hideaway in Emrakul to block a lethal attack. That was pretty slick. It was a pretty heated match. The other player (affinity) was mad about a judge call RE layers. He assumed that Blood Moon changed the card so the hideaway card was lost. He was getting pretty salty about it and appealed to the head judge multiple times.
I can see adding a couple other bombs for alt win cons. I think Nykthos might not work as well as we'd want though. I am considering giving it a go though. It seemed really fun.
Although to be honest I like the looks of this list the most http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7482&d=242887&f=MO. The fusion I envision might not be possible though, like you said. I can be bad about trying to pull an idea in too many directions.
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Hi guys
I've been following this thread for a bit and i'm really pumped to build green devotion
i used to have an old casual deck set up around this so i'm happy to turn it into something good
Anyway i'm thinking of building the tooth and nail version of the deck any advice?
I haven't had the chance to test this build out, but this is more about ramping straight into my late game creatures and the like. However, I'm still adjusting things, so it may not compare to what you people build. Any advice?
Hi guys
I've been following this thread for a bit and i'm really pumped to build green devotion
i used to have an old casual deck set up around this so i'm happy to turn it into something good
Anyway i'm thinking of building the tooth and nail version of the deck any advice?
Personally, I think the Tooth and Nail versions play best when they kind of go "all in" and really focus on the combo nature of Tooth and nail. Personally, given the way the current meta is, I would focus on (a) "combo-ing off" with Tooth and Nail as path one, and (b) having Kessig Wolf Run and/or additional mana-sinks as my additional win-conditions. Of course Garruk can always end up wining via his "overrun" ultimate; but I like having at least three ways to win....I would start with the Tooth and Nail "combo core" of:
By playing the package of Arbor Elf, Voyaging Satyr, Garruk Wildspeaker, Utopia Sprawl, and Overgrowth, and of course Nykthos...you ramp as quickly as is humanly possible
The second aspect is card draw...you have to get to the Tooth and Nail's...I would probably play:
This draw package gives you little guys that (a) can be pumped via Kessig Wolf Run for a secondary win-condition and (b) dig deep into your deck while pushing your devotion WAY up (in both Wistful Selkie and Abundant Growth's place they add devotion equal to their CMC which is HUGE). Eidolon of Blossoms as a 1-of just helps you take advantage of all of the enchantments in the deck can creates a crazy stupid draw engine. I am a HUGE proponent of permanent-based card draw in devotion...it just seems to play more smoothly.
As far as win-cons go, I'd probably just have the Tooth and Nail package, a Kessig Wolf Run or two, maybe a Nylea, God of the Hunt (as she can also pump your little guys like crazy, is a 6/6 nearly every time she comes into play, is VERY hard to kill, and is another enchantment for Eidolon....
So I guess if I was building my "Level Zero" Tooth and Nail deck (obviously it would get honed as I tested and played): it would look like this:
I hope this helps...it would require a lot of testing and honing of the deck; but I think that since the deck has no real disruption that it has to be FAST and focus headily on ramping into Tooth and Nail. I hope this helps!
Hi guys
I've been following this thread for a bit and i'm really pumped to build green devotion
i used to have an old casual deck set up around this so i'm happy to turn it into something good
Anyway i'm thinking of building the tooth and nail version of the deck any advice?
Personally, I think the Tooth and Nail versions play best when they kind of go "all in" and really focus on the combo nature of Tooth and nail. Personally, given the way the current meta is, I would focus on (a) "combo-ing off" with Tooth and Nail as path one, and (b) having Kessig Wolf Run and/or additional mana-sinks as my additional win-conditions. Of course Garruk can always end up wining via his "overrun" ultimate; but I like having at least three ways to win....I would start with the Tooth and Nail "combo core" of:
By playing the package of Arbor Elf, Voyaging Satyr, Garruk Wildspeaker, Utopia Sprawl, and Overgrowth, and of course Nykthos...you ramp as quickly as is humanly possible
The second aspect is card draw...you have to get to the Tooth and Nail's...I would probably play:
This draw package gives you little guys that (a) can be pumped via Kessig Wolf Run for a secondary win-condition and (b) dig deep into your deck while pushing your devotion WAY up (in both Wistful Selkie and Abundant Growth's place they add devotion equal to their CMC which is HUGE). Eidolon of Blossoms as a 1-of just helps you take advantage of all of the enchantments in the deck can creates a crazy stupid draw engine. I am a HUGE proponent of permanent-based card draw in devotion...it just seems to play more smoothly.
As far as win-cons go, I'd probably just have the Tooth and Nail package, a Kessig Wolf Run or two, maybe a Nylea, God of the Hunt (as she can also pump your little guys like crazy, is a 6/6 nearly every time she comes into play, is VERY hard to kill, and is another enchantment for Eidolon....
So I guess if I was building my "Level Zero" Tooth and Nail deck (obviously it would get honed as I tested and played): it would look like this:
I hope this helps...it would require a lot of testing and honing of the deck; but I think that since the deck has no real disruption that it has to be FAST and focus headily on ramping into Tooth and Nail. I hope this helps!
Thank you very much and i'll get right on testing it out
i might make some personal touches but your list looks very strong thanks heaps
Last night I played in our stores weekly modern tournament. Had a pretty good turnout this week with 24 people, a lot of non-regulars and as such we actually had a pretty diverse meta (which kinda boned my sideboard strategy of burn/tron hate - faced neither).
Entry was $10, prizing was Foil Cryptic Command for the top 4-0, or $80 credit to 1st if no 4-0. 2nd got $60 credit, 3rd and 4th $30 credit, 5th and 6th $20 credit.
I ended up 4th for $30 credit, beating out a 3-0 I got paired up against in the last round, and having lost to the player who placed 2nd (of which me beating the 3-0 let him have).
I ran the following Tooth and Nail list, based off Uegjo's list on MTGO that has been 3-1ing dailies for a couple months (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9674&d=255616&f=MO). I altered the sideboard slightly but left the maindeck intact since I've had no play with this deck and wanted to get a feel for the cards myself first before making any changes other than SB alterations.
The sideboard changes I made from this list were:
-1 Creeping Corrosion
-1 Nature's Claim
-1 Nylea's Disciple (the list I actually used was a more recent result that MTGTop8 didn't pull for some reason, it only had 1 disciple)
-1 Scavenging Ooze
+2 Blood Moon
+1 Thragtusk
+1 Rending Volley (this was in the list I pulled from in place of the disciple)
Reasonings for these changes, last week the meta was pretty much Tron, Infect and burn. There's no affinity (turns out there was one last night but I didn't play him) so Creeping Corrosion just isn't great. Nature's Claim I didn't feel I needed either and wanted space to try some other cards. The ooze I felt was redundant, and honestly I wasn't impressed with the maindeck ones after last night anyways. I wanted to give Thragtusk a try for the burn matchup, just because I feel like dropping it would crush their spirit, and also Thragtusk is awesome. Unfortunately I never got to play him. The 2 extra Blood Moons were for the prevalence of Tron and also the usual 1 Amulet Bloom player (wasn't there).
Round 1 (2-1): R/G Aura Tricks (honestly don't know what to call it. It was not a competitive list though).
G1: (L) Didn't have much of anything going on and lost to a Madcap Skills + Flesh // Blood
G2: (W) He kept a hand without the right mana hoping to get there in 3 draws, I beat down with a Scavenging Ooze all the way to victory.
G3: (W) Managed to stall out the board with Garruk long enough to drop the Tooth and Nail combo and swing for 30 to the face.
Notes: Only boarding I did here was to bring in 3 Lightning Bolts and sided out the 2 Harmonize and 1 Eternal Witness - Harmonize just seemed like it would be too slow in this match.
1-0
Round 2 (0-2): Collected Elves (as far as I was concerned it was just Elves. He didn't even need Collected Company to roll over my face, nor did he even cast one)
G1: (L) I kept a decent hand but it wasn't fast enough to contend with a Chorded in Ezuri after turn 3 that rolled through for 26+ damage.
Sideboard: -2 Harmonize, -1 Eternal Witness +3 Lightning Bolt. It's here that I really wish I had put 2 Pyroclasms in my sideboard like I had been thinking of doing
G2: (L) Mulligan to 5 keeping a Kessig, Forest, 2 Bolts and some other spell I couldn't cast anyways. Got rolled over after drawing another bolt but no red source which would have helped or even any source of mana.
Notes: This player previously played burn which I loathed when I played him with Grixis Delver last week...when we got paired up he said "at least I'm not playing burn this week" to which I replied..."damnit". Definitely putting 2 Pyroclasms in the board now, previously hadn't seen elves or any sort of board aggro at the store.
1-1
Round 3 (2-0): Hate Bears
I don't remember much of the specifics of this match, since my last round was also hate bears and it was a lot more grindy of a match. I ended up rolling him over with Emrakul both games and he had no real plan against it. The only thing of note was he was able to Path to Exile my Xenagos in Game 1 because I had 7 devotion to RG on the board, so I had to wait a turn to kill him. Game 2 wasn't even close really.
Round 4 (2-0): Hate Bears (but more hatey)
G1: (W) This match was really grindy. I started off with an Arbor Elf but didn't have an enchantment to follow up with, and his T2 Thalia really did a number of my plays since they were all 4+ non-creatures. Leonin Arbiter also was a bit of a pain. I cast Primal Command 3 times gaining 7 and putting his Stirring Wildwood on the top for the first 2 (with him only on 3 lands) and then gained 7 and grabbed + cast Eternal Witness on the 3rd one to grab Primal Command back. I ended up comboing out with Tooth and Nail to just kill him, but this game was very grindy and I was dead without those Primal Commands. Of note I had Nissa and Garruk on the board for several turns, and they really helped gum up the board. He also had a Ghost Quarter on the board since turn 2 that he never used. I'm not sure if he didn't realize the implications of blowing up my overgrowthed forest - maybe he didn't realize it could target basic lands.
G2: (W) The first game took so long that a few turns in we got the 5 minute warning. I had again a pretty stalled out board, although he had Leonin Arbiter again which was making things difficult to cast. I started Arbor Elf into Voyaging Satyr and he blew both of them up with a Path to Exile each that I couldn't fetch lands for because of the Arbiter. I dropped another Arbor Elf the next turn and curved into Garruk, then Nissa. At one point I was facing down a Stirring Wildwood, Loxodon Smiter, Arbiter on board. I had one card in my hand which was a Primal Command, so my thought was to cast it, grab a Titan and then play it. Unfortunately I made a savage misplay here, getting greedy to try and fade him a draw step and set his board back by targeting the Stirring Wildwood that could be activated. So he activated it and fizzled my Command. I should have just bounced the Aether Vial that was sitting on 3. I ended up drawing Tooth and Nail the next turn and killed him with Emragos. on Turn 1 of turns.
Notes; I sideboarded in Lightning Bolts but never saw them. Pyroclasm would be great in the board for this matchup too.
Overall I was fairly happy with the results for the first night out. The list definitely needs Pyroclasm, I feel like I would have had a real chance against Elves with it. I didn't get to see how any of my sideboard hate really worked because I didn't face the matchups. So my sideboard changes will be a bit more difficult to evaluate. I have a modern FNM on Friday which I will take almost the same list to and see how it fares.
I don't particularly like the Scavenging Oozes in the main, but they're not terrible so I think they deserve more testing. However I almost wonder if these should just be Fertile Grounds. This deck is fairly all in on the combo, so having a few more pieces to it might be necessary, I'm not entirely sure without more samples to look at. I really don't know why the Acidic Slime is in the main, it just wasn't impactful at all for me. Without Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling I don't think it's particularly useful in the list, and it's too expensive for what it is. I think Reclamation Sage would just do what it does better, not sure I need the land destruction main - it's not really reliable enough as tron hate especially since it doesn't come down very quick. Overall I don't even know if I'd replace it with Reclamation Sage either since I don't think it's an effect I want in the mainboard. I'm considering shoving Thragtusk in this slot, freeing up a SB slot and giving me a bit more of a grind game to work with in the mainboard.
At first I wasn't sure about the Nissa, but she proved herself in the grindy games in Round 4 vs Hatebears. The untapping of 4 forests also provides a decent amount of ramp. I had originally considered that she might be better fit as a 4th Garruk, but she's certainly proven her worth. I feel like she'll be very useful vs Jund (I also expect Scavenging Ooze to be very good against them).
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
Coming from a Tooth and Nail pilot, Corazu's list may even be a better list to start with Frdoggy. Obviously it has a potential for good performance against a diverse meta!
Corazu's list has a lot more "play" to it. It is not as linear. While it may give up a little speed; it certainly makes up for that with the ability to interact with the opponent a little.
Anywho, this is a great example of a Tooth and Nail deck. Hopefully it goes a long way to helping you decide on the your list (given your preferred playstyle).
It is SO great to get results like this written out. That is HUGE for forums like this and the growth of Green Devotion as an archetype. Seeing where it competes, where it struggles, etc. is a great way to learn what cards work best in what meta's, when we are in a good position, etc.. Thanks so much for posting this Corazu.
That list is going to be my starting point when I pick the deck up in a month or three. It's beautiful.
While I haven't played the deck yet, I'd agree with your thoughts on Ooze and Slime. Those cards can be good in the toolbox version, but this version just wants big splashy cards, not grindy cards that do nothing but grind. Pyroclasm is quite relevant and powerful but kills our guys too, so I would use Street Spasm. Regarding Corrosion, I'm not sure why Fracturing Gust isn't run instead - that seems incorrect.
That list is going to be my starting point when I pick the deck up in a month or three. It's beautiful.
While I haven't played the deck yet, I'd agree with your thoughts on Ooze and Slime. Those cards can be good in the toolbox version, but this version just wants big splashy cards, not grindy cards that do nothing but grind. Pyroclasm is quite relevant and powerful but kills our guys too, so I would use Street Spasm. Regarding Corrosion, I'm not sure why Fracturing Gust isn't run instead - that seems incorrect.
Fracturing Gust would kill Overgrowth/Utopia Sprawl. I definitely don't want to be doing that.
You have a point that I didn't actually consider on Pyroclasm, it would kill our dorks. Street Spasm is a terrible card though, I need 6 mana to do what Pyroclasm does, and it won't hit delvers, Cliques or Spirit tokens. The only thing that comes close is maybe Electrickery, but RR can actually be quite hard in the early game - keep in mind that this is still mostly a base green deck, the red is only there for Kessig and sideboard cards. Plus Electrickery really doesn't deal with X/2s that I need it to.
In the matchups I want Pyroclasm for, I think sacrificing an onboard Dork to take out a significant board presence is just a sacrifice you have to make. I'd likely lean towards siding out dorks in this scenario. For example, Elves dropping an Elvish Mystic and then following it up with a Nettle Sentinel, Heritage Druid and Visionary is a board I don't mind getting rid of. You can possibly wait and try and take out the archdruid that comes down next turn as well, either way you're setting them back long enough that you can get more defenses up.
It maybe works out a bit worse in the Hate Bears matchup, and since Pyroclasm doesn't hit Liege or Smiter there anyways, it may not be a card I want to side in. Especially against a Liege'd board, nothing but Thalia would get hit by it.
It's still going to be fairly good against Affinity, although were I expecting Affinity I'd probably put the Creeping Corrosions back in the sideboard. Keeping in mind this list came from MTGO, where Burn is very highly played due to it's low cost, all the burn hate might not be necessary - I opted to keep it in based on all of the burn I usually see at the store, but after not seeing much last night, I don't know if I'll need quite as much. The Nylea's Disciple might be a cut for me.
I've been at work all day so I haven't had much time to consider what I want to cut from the board for the Pyroclasms, but I do know that I want to run them to see how they'll work. All I know is I was longing for them in that Elves matchup, and not having access to it really hurt.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I like that Spasm is flexible and instant speed. It will only cost 4 if they don't have an Archdruid out. My feeling was we don't care about the mana cost too much, though obviously we'd prefer it to be cheaper.
Electrickery doesn't require RR, just 1R. In combination with Bolt to deal with Archdruid, maybe it's enough and a good plan. I don't think I'd side it in against decks with Delver, Cliques, or Souls, as they all have plenty of big threats that Electrickery doesn't deal with.
I really hate anti-synergy and siding out dorks just feels bad, so I won't go that route, personally. I think you're probably giving up more than you're getting, especially since Elves can fairly often recover from wrath, thanks to Company, Witness, Visionary, etc. (I play Elves so I say that firsthand)
It's inconsistent vs Affinity: they have buffing, Ravager, and manlands. Might be worth it though I dunno.
Perhaps Polukranos, World Eater is a good idea vs Elves? It costs a lot, but it doubles as a win con, and is applicable versus everything. Inferno Titan is similar. I've been up against Titan as Elves and it's backbreaking. Armed // Dangerous would be a great choice in a creature heavy build.
Are there any cards you felt you saw too often or not enough?
Quick request, i was reading the opening page of the primer with the various sub types of green devo, and the "stompy" link is blank. The cards listed in the lists that had "stompy" attatched to them intrigued me, i.e. genesis hydra and strangleroot geist, so could someone post a competitive list for me to fiddle with, or if the original poster could update link, thatd be awesome.
Below is the pre-testing list based on the one last page that I worked on today. One of the aims I had with it was to even the curve -- another was to make it more proactive and explosive.
I'm probably making a number of mistakes since I have no hands on experience with the deck as of yet, but regardless, thoughts? I'd like to have this tuned to perfection by the time I'm ready to buy.
In my brewing and Gatherer browsing, I also got the sense there could be a good build with 4x Prime Time and friends, Boom // Bust, and/or Armed // Dangerous. Maybe jank, I dunno.
I had a thought this morning, that is far better than Street Spasm and something I had considered running anyways. Bonfire of the Damned. I loved this card in Wolf Run Ramp back in Standard, it was pretty much the plague of that standard format aside from Delver. It accomplishes Pyroclasm for 4R in hand, or 2R off the top, and late game can just blow out a board. I'm thinking about running 2 of these in the board instead of the 2 pyroclasms I was going to run.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I had a thought this morning, that is far better than Street Spasm and something I had considered running anyways. Bonfire of the Damned. I loved this card in Wolf Run Ramp back in Standard, it was pretty much the plague of that standard format aside from Delver. It accomplishes Pyroclasm for 4R in hand, or 2R off the top, and late game can just blow out a board. I'm thinking about running 2 of these in the board instead of the 2 pyroclasms I was going to run.
Good call. I'm sticking with Titan for now, but if I find myself needing something earlier in the game, I'll try Bonfire.
The initial thought behind Assault Formation was that it is an "infinite mana sink" on top of it's use of making defenders big attackers. By giving "all creatures +0/+1 it essentially gives all creatures +1/+0; so with infinite mana you have infinitely large creatures (at 2-CMC). Like I said, I still don't think the deck is "there" yet; so I will most certainly try out the Treefolk version as well.
4 Primeval Titan
3 Lotus Cobra
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Bird of Paradise
4 Arbor Elf
4 Nest Invader
4 Summoning Trap
4 Windswept Heath
4 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
2 Flooded Strand
2 Gavony Township
4 Temple Garden
2 Mosswort Bridge
4 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windbrisk Heights
The lack Noble Hierarch and Path to Exile is notable. Summoner's Trap seems really well suited in Twin and Delver heavy meta. Just an interesting list that may need a touch of devotion
I watch this guy play it. It was kind of insane.
I can see adding a couple other bombs for alt win cons. I think Nykthos might not work as well as we'd want though. I am considering giving it a go though. It seemed really fun.
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Vesuva
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Mosswort Bridge
3 Temple Garden
4 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Arbor Elf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Primeval Titan
4 Terastodon
1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Summoning Trap
1 Acidic Slime
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Although to be honest I like the looks of this list the most http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7482&d=242887&f=MO. The fusion I envision might not be possible though, like you said. I can be bad about trying to pull an idea in too many directions.
I've been following this thread for a bit and i'm really pumped to build green devotion
i used to have an old casual deck set up around this so i'm happy to turn it into something good
Anyway i'm thinking of building the tooth and nail version of the deck any advice?
8-Rack2 Overwhelming Stampede
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
2 Asceticism
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Harmonize
2 Genesis Wave
2 Harrow
2 Basilisk Collar
Creatures
2 Hornet Queen
2 Engulfing Slagwurm
2 Vengevine
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Hornet Nest
2 Reverent Hunter
2 Ohran Viper
2 Omnath, Locus of Mana
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Birds of Paradise
14 Forest
2 Mosswort Bridge
2 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Privileged Position
4 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Display of Dominance
3 Elixir of Immortality
2 Savage Summoning
GMono-Green Devotion Idea
RGU Temur Elementals
BUG Midrange
Personally, I think the Tooth and Nail versions play best when they kind of go "all in" and really focus on the combo nature of Tooth and nail. Personally, given the way the current meta is, I would focus on (a) "combo-ing off" with Tooth and Nail as path one, and (b) having Kessig Wolf Run and/or additional mana-sinks as my additional win-conditions. Of course Garruk can always end up wining via his "overrun" ultimate; but I like having at least three ways to win....I would start with the Tooth and Nail "combo core" of:
By playing the package of Arbor Elf, Voyaging Satyr, Garruk Wildspeaker, Utopia Sprawl, and Overgrowth, and of course Nykthos...you ramp as quickly as is humanly possible
The second aspect is card draw...you have to get to the Tooth and Nail's...I would probably play:
This draw package gives you little guys that (a) can be pumped via Kessig Wolf Run for a secondary win-condition and (b) dig deep into your deck while pushing your devotion WAY up (in both Wistful Selkie and Abundant Growth's place they add devotion equal to their CMC which is HUGE). Eidolon of Blossoms as a 1-of just helps you take advantage of all of the enchantments in the deck can creates a crazy stupid draw engine. I am a HUGE proponent of permanent-based card draw in devotion...it just seems to play more smoothly.
As far as win-cons go, I'd probably just have the Tooth and Nail package, a Kessig Wolf Run or two, maybe a Nylea, God of the Hunt (as she can also pump your little guys like crazy, is a 6/6 nearly every time she comes into play, is VERY hard to kill, and is another enchantment for Eidolon....
So I guess if I was building my "Level Zero" Tooth and Nail deck (obviously it would get honed as I tested and played): it would look like this:
4x Arbor Elf
4x Voyaging Satyr
3x Wistful Selkie
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Primeval Titan
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Enchantment Creature
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
Enchantment
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Abundant Growth
3x Overgrowth
4x Garruk Wildspeaker
Instant/Sorcery
4x Tooth and Nail
1x Sylvan Scrying
Land
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Wooded Foothill
4x Stomping Ground
2x Kessig Wolf Run
5x Forest
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3x Beast Within
3x Summoner's Trap
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3x Spellskite
2x Seal of Primordium
2x Primal Command
1x Eternal Witness
I hope this helps...it would require a lot of testing and honing of the deck; but I think that since the deck has no real disruption that it has to be FAST and focus headily on ramping into Tooth and Nail. I hope this helps!
Thank you very much and i'll get right on testing it out
i might make some personal touches but your list looks very strong thanks heaps
8-RackEntry was $10, prizing was Foil Cryptic Command for the top 4-0, or $80 credit to 1st if no 4-0. 2nd got $60 credit, 3rd and 4th $30 credit, 5th and 6th $20 credit.
I ended up 4th for $30 credit, beating out a 3-0 I got paired up against in the last round, and having lost to the player who placed 2nd (of which me beating the 3-0 let him have).
I ran the following Tooth and Nail list, based off Uegjo's list on MTGO that has been 3-1ing dailies for a couple months (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9674&d=255616&f=MO). I altered the sideboard slightly but left the maindeck intact since I've had no play with this deck and wanted to get a feel for the cards myself first before making any changes other than SB alterations.
The sideboard changes I made from this list were:
-1 Creeping Corrosion
-1 Nature's Claim
-1 Nylea's Disciple (the list I actually used was a more recent result that MTGTop8 didn't pull for some reason, it only had 1 disciple)
-1 Scavenging Ooze
+2 Blood Moon
+1 Thragtusk
+1 Rending Volley (this was in the list I pulled from in place of the disciple)
Reasonings for these changes, last week the meta was pretty much Tron, Infect and burn. There's no affinity (turns out there was one last night but I didn't play him) so Creeping Corrosion just isn't great. Nature's Claim I didn't feel I needed either and wanted space to try some other cards. The ooze I felt was redundant, and honestly I wasn't impressed with the maindeck ones after last night anyways. I wanted to give Thragtusk a try for the burn matchup, just because I feel like dropping it would crush their spirit, and also Thragtusk is awesome. Unfortunately I never got to play him. The 2 extra Blood Moons were for the prevalence of Tron and also the usual 1 Amulet Bloom player (wasn't there).
4 Arbor Elf
4 Voyaging Satyr
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eternal Witness
1 Acidic Slime
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Sorceries
2 Harmonize
3 Primal Command
4 Tooth and Nail
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
Enchantments
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Overgrowth
Lands
11 Forest
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Stomping Ground
1 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Blood Moon
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Choke
1 Feed the Clan
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Nylea's Disciple
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Rending Volley
1 Thragtusk
Round 1 (2-1): R/G Aura Tricks (honestly don't know what to call it. It was not a competitive list though).
G1: (L) Didn't have much of anything going on and lost to a Madcap Skills + Flesh // Blood
G2: (W) He kept a hand without the right mana hoping to get there in 3 draws, I beat down with a Scavenging Ooze all the way to victory.
G3: (W) Managed to stall out the board with Garruk long enough to drop the Tooth and Nail combo and swing for 30 to the face.
Notes: Only boarding I did here was to bring in 3 Lightning Bolts and sided out the 2 Harmonize and 1 Eternal Witness - Harmonize just seemed like it would be too slow in this match.
1-0
Round 2 (0-2): Collected Elves (as far as I was concerned it was just Elves. He didn't even need Collected Company to roll over my face, nor did he even cast one)
G1: (L) I kept a decent hand but it wasn't fast enough to contend with a Chorded in Ezuri after turn 3 that rolled through for 26+ damage.
Sideboard: -2 Harmonize, -1 Eternal Witness +3 Lightning Bolt. It's here that I really wish I had put 2 Pyroclasms in my sideboard like I had been thinking of doing
G2: (L) Mulligan to 5 keeping a Kessig, Forest, 2 Bolts and some other spell I couldn't cast anyways. Got rolled over after drawing another bolt but no red source which would have helped or even any source of mana.
Notes: This player previously played burn which I loathed when I played him with Grixis Delver last week...when we got paired up he said "at least I'm not playing burn this week" to which I replied..."damnit". Definitely putting 2 Pyroclasms in the board now, previously hadn't seen elves or any sort of board aggro at the store.
1-1
Round 3 (2-0): Hate Bears
I don't remember much of the specifics of this match, since my last round was also hate bears and it was a lot more grindy of a match. I ended up rolling him over with Emrakul both games and he had no real plan against it. The only thing of note was he was able to Path to Exile my Xenagos in Game 1 because I had 7 devotion to RG on the board, so I had to wait a turn to kill him. Game 2 wasn't even close really.
Round 4 (2-0): Hate Bears (but more hatey)
G1: (W) This match was really grindy. I started off with an Arbor Elf but didn't have an enchantment to follow up with, and his T2 Thalia really did a number of my plays since they were all 4+ non-creatures. Leonin Arbiter also was a bit of a pain. I cast Primal Command 3 times gaining 7 and putting his Stirring Wildwood on the top for the first 2 (with him only on 3 lands) and then gained 7 and grabbed + cast Eternal Witness on the 3rd one to grab Primal Command back. I ended up comboing out with Tooth and Nail to just kill him, but this game was very grindy and I was dead without those Primal Commands. Of note I had Nissa and Garruk on the board for several turns, and they really helped gum up the board. He also had a Ghost Quarter on the board since turn 2 that he never used. I'm not sure if he didn't realize the implications of blowing up my overgrowthed forest - maybe he didn't realize it could target basic lands.
G2: (W) The first game took so long that a few turns in we got the 5 minute warning. I had again a pretty stalled out board, although he had Leonin Arbiter again which was making things difficult to cast. I started Arbor Elf into Voyaging Satyr and he blew both of them up with a Path to Exile each that I couldn't fetch lands for because of the Arbiter. I dropped another Arbor Elf the next turn and curved into Garruk, then Nissa. At one point I was facing down a Stirring Wildwood, Loxodon Smiter, Arbiter on board. I had one card in my hand which was a Primal Command, so my thought was to cast it, grab a Titan and then play it. Unfortunately I made a savage misplay here, getting greedy to try and fade him a draw step and set his board back by targeting the Stirring Wildwood that could be activated. So he activated it and fizzled my Command. I should have just bounced the Aether Vial that was sitting on 3. I ended up drawing Tooth and Nail the next turn and killed him with Emragos. on Turn 1 of turns.
Notes; I sideboarded in Lightning Bolts but never saw them. Pyroclasm would be great in the board for this matchup too.
Overall I was fairly happy with the results for the first night out. The list definitely needs Pyroclasm, I feel like I would have had a real chance against Elves with it. I didn't get to see how any of my sideboard hate really worked because I didn't face the matchups. So my sideboard changes will be a bit more difficult to evaluate. I have a modern FNM on Friday which I will take almost the same list to and see how it fares.
I don't particularly like the Scavenging Oozes in the main, but they're not terrible so I think they deserve more testing. However I almost wonder if these should just be Fertile Grounds. This deck is fairly all in on the combo, so having a few more pieces to it might be necessary, I'm not entirely sure without more samples to look at. I really don't know why the Acidic Slime is in the main, it just wasn't impactful at all for me. Without Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling I don't think it's particularly useful in the list, and it's too expensive for what it is. I think Reclamation Sage would just do what it does better, not sure I need the land destruction main - it's not really reliable enough as tron hate especially since it doesn't come down very quick. Overall I don't even know if I'd replace it with Reclamation Sage either since I don't think it's an effect I want in the mainboard. I'm considering shoving Thragtusk in this slot, freeing up a SB slot and giving me a bit more of a grind game to work with in the mainboard.
At first I wasn't sure about the Nissa, but she proved herself in the grindy games in Round 4 vs Hatebears. The untapping of 4 forests also provides a decent amount of ramp. I had originally considered that she might be better fit as a 4th Garruk, but she's certainly proven her worth. I feel like she'll be very useful vs Jund (I also expect Scavenging Ooze to be very good against them).
Coming from a Tooth and Nail pilot, Corazu's list may even be a better list to start with Frdoggy. Obviously it has a potential for good performance against a diverse meta!
Corazu's list has a lot more "play" to it. It is not as linear. While it may give up a little speed; it certainly makes up for that with the ability to interact with the opponent a little.
Anywho, this is a great example of a Tooth and Nail deck. Hopefully it goes a long way to helping you decide on the your list (given your preferred playstyle).
It is SO great to get results like this written out. That is HUGE for forums like this and the growth of Green Devotion as an archetype. Seeing where it competes, where it struggles, etc. is a great way to learn what cards work best in what meta's, when we are in a good position, etc.. Thanks so much for posting this Corazu.
While I haven't played the deck yet, I'd agree with your thoughts on Ooze and Slime. Those cards can be good in the toolbox version, but this version just wants big splashy cards, not grindy cards that do nothing but grind. Pyroclasm is quite relevant and powerful but kills our guys too, so I would use Street Spasm. Regarding Corrosion, I'm not sure why Fracturing Gust isn't run instead - that seems incorrect.
Fracturing Gust would kill Overgrowth/Utopia Sprawl. I definitely don't want to be doing that.
You have a point that I didn't actually consider on Pyroclasm, it would kill our dorks. Street Spasm is a terrible card though, I need 6 mana to do what Pyroclasm does, and it won't hit delvers, Cliques or Spirit tokens. The only thing that comes close is maybe Electrickery, but RR can actually be quite hard in the early game - keep in mind that this is still mostly a base green deck, the red is only there for Kessig and sideboard cards. Plus Electrickery really doesn't deal with X/2s that I need it to.
In the matchups I want Pyroclasm for, I think sacrificing an onboard Dork to take out a significant board presence is just a sacrifice you have to make. I'd likely lean towards siding out dorks in this scenario. For example, Elves dropping an Elvish Mystic and then following it up with a Nettle Sentinel, Heritage Druid and Visionary is a board I don't mind getting rid of. You can possibly wait and try and take out the archdruid that comes down next turn as well, either way you're setting them back long enough that you can get more defenses up.
It maybe works out a bit worse in the Hate Bears matchup, and since Pyroclasm doesn't hit Liege or Smiter there anyways, it may not be a card I want to side in. Especially against a Liege'd board, nothing but Thalia would get hit by it.
It's still going to be fairly good against Affinity, although were I expecting Affinity I'd probably put the Creeping Corrosions back in the sideboard. Keeping in mind this list came from MTGO, where Burn is very highly played due to it's low cost, all the burn hate might not be necessary - I opted to keep it in based on all of the burn I usually see at the store, but after not seeing much last night, I don't know if I'll need quite as much. The Nylea's Disciple might be a cut for me.
I've been at work all day so I haven't had much time to consider what I want to cut from the board for the Pyroclasms, but I do know that I want to run them to see how they'll work. All I know is I was longing for them in that Elves matchup, and not having access to it really hurt.
I like that Spasm is flexible and instant speed. It will only cost 4 if they don't have an Archdruid out. My feeling was we don't care about the mana cost too much, though obviously we'd prefer it to be cheaper.
Electrickery doesn't require RR, just 1R. In combination with Bolt to deal with Archdruid, maybe it's enough and a good plan. I don't think I'd side it in against decks with Delver, Cliques, or Souls, as they all have plenty of big threats that Electrickery doesn't deal with.
I really hate anti-synergy and siding out dorks just feels bad, so I won't go that route, personally. I think you're probably giving up more than you're getting, especially since Elves can fairly often recover from wrath, thanks to Company, Witness, Visionary, etc. (I play Elves so I say that firsthand)
It's inconsistent vs Affinity: they have buffing, Ravager, and manlands. Might be worth it though I dunno.
Are there any cards you felt you saw too often or not enough?
4 Arbor Elf
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Voyaging Satyr
3 Eternal Witness
1 Primeval Titan
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Enchantments
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Fertile Ground
3 Overgrowth
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
Sorceries
3 Primal Command
3 Tooth and Nail
Land
11 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
2 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3 Spellskite
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Blood Moon
1 Choke
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Acidic Slime
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Inferno Titan
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Banefire
I'm probably making a number of mistakes since I have no hands on experience with the deck as of yet, but regardless, thoughts? I'd like to have this tuned to perfection by the time I'm ready to buy.
In my brewing and Gatherer browsing, I also got the sense there could be a good build with 4x Prime Time and friends, Boom // Bust, and/or Armed // Dangerous. Maybe jank, I dunno.
Good call. I'm sticking with Titan for now, but if I find myself needing something earlier in the game, I'll try Bonfire.