I don't quite understand your reasons behind Aether Hub vs Tendo Ice Bridge. The trigger is a downfall to the card and can bite ya in the butt. Only time I could see Aether Hub working better than Tendo Ice Bridge, is when you use it as a pseudo Crumbling Vestige with an untapped Aether Hub and you fetch another from Primeval Titan with NO Amulet of Vigor on the board to gain an energy to tap the Aether hub for a colored mana. But then again an untapped - Gemstone Mine, Mana Confluence, or City of Brass would do it better in this situation.
Grats on the 5-0 though! I def agree on the Lotus Bloom as some sweet tech against Blood Moon decks as I have been experimenting on ways to beat it as well. I'll post my list below that I have been stress testing on paper (I don't have MTGO yet to back up with a 5-0 win)
The Azusa situation with a aether hub is very rare if you sequence your lands correctly and the ability to tap aether hub for colored twice after bouncing and recasting or being able to turn it on as a colored source with vesuva or a tapped aether hub off titan comes up more often.
I’m actually going to be busy traveling and visiting family this week for thanksgiving but will try to stream sometime when I get back. I’m PuntThenWhine on twitch and twitter where I plan to announce stream times. If you let me know when you’re available next week I’m happy to try to accommodate peoples schedule since I have like 4 twitter followers and 0 twitch followers right now.
I think cutting a hub for a forest is reasonable, especially with all the UW control decks. I’m not a big fan of city/mana confluence though. I think the downside hurts you way more often than aether hub not providing enough colored mana.
I'm a twitter follower now!! The Aether Hub is definitely better than tendo ice bridge. Just I'm not sure it's better than city of brass (at least, the 1st copy). A 2nd copy of brass/mana confluence comes at a much larger cost, but the first is pretty free in a lot of match-ups. I find being bottle-necked on colourless really painful, and I find that scenario semi-regularly with Crumbling Vestige. I can't imagine Aether Hub is THAT much better there. I would recommend cutting the 2 Aether Hub for 1 City of Brass and potentially a 3rd Basic. I'm really high on the 3rd basic right now, its just great vs the decks that are set up to beat us (ghost quarter / path decks). If you don't like the 3rd basic (you have less path to exile targets in your list), perhaps the ghost quarter can make its way to the mainboard, or cavern of souls? I don't think your list is screaming out for those cards because of the extra pact of negations and alt wincon, but I just dont think Curmbling Vestige + Aether Hub is that strong either.
@ Aretherk - what are your white sideboard cards? I'm assuming there's a few to maximize that commitment to white? I don't particularly like maindecking 4 paths when your not a reactive deck. It means you are giving up some % against decks light on creatures, and makes mulliganing decisions kind of difficult (you dont know if the path is good or not, so should you keep). I would recommend trimming to 2 copies and adding 2 explore. I'm not sure if 3 basics is enough with 2 Sakura-tribe elders. When you draw that card late on, if you've been getting pathed / ghost quartered, they feel a bit silly. I would recommend a 3rd forest over the 2nd canopy personally.
The paths aren't all for opponent, it's used for ourselves too. Opponent goes to kill our creature, now have the opportunity to path it and net mana off it. As for the 3 basics, I've been torn on a 4th basic and I almost want it to be an island to help with tolaria west, but the right answer is probably another forest.
As for white in the sideboard, it's always going to be based on your meta. The additions I have made is Leyline of Sanctity and Dragonlord Dromoka. Some other sweet tech could be Curse of Exhaustion for storm lists, but in most cases the sideboard is pretty standard.
Is anyone willing to give my list a shot on MTGO? I don't have the money to invest in MTGO, but would love to see other's opinions and maybe a 5-0 in a league with this variation.
@aretherk - I'd b happy to test your list but...
First - I don't have the tic myself. My current modo list cost just 70tix to build so I'm short on key cards and have very little room to manoeuvre.
Second - I'd want to make a few changes before running it. You've added 7-8 extra white sources JUST for path... which isn't worth 4 slots imo and could easily be dismember which doesn't stretch the manabase.
Finally point - I've tested sakura tribe elder before and found it reasonable in the right lists. I don't really feel a need to test it again tho.
That's not to say your list can't work. Adding RIP and Stony to the board along with leyline of sanctity could really make use of that extra white in a big way. You're short on a good sweeper like pyro though. Sigarda should also be in your board.
Happy to give advice on your list based on my previous testing but I don't think I'll b running it thro modo. Have u tried cockatrice?
Yea I usually play Cockatrice, but I feel the player base isn't really that competitive/strong, where MTGO has a lot of well known competitive players, it's a lot easier to stress test a deck against those types of players.
The white sources are also for stronghold/sunhome as well as sideboard.
Sure I'll take some advice, you can PM me so we don't clog up the forum.
Just started playing Punt's list (I've watched similar decks streamed before) and have been dying to pick up the deck for a while.
Wow this deck is complicated and fun. Feels like how my birthing pod deck used to, i.e. broken if you can just figure it out. I'm hooked. I desperately need some guidance because I'm timing myself out most of the time or just punting. I definitely feel like I'm not using pact / tolaria to their full potential.
For example I Turn 1 Amulet from aether hub into a Turn 2 bounce land returning hub leaving me at 3 mana. I Pact for Azuza leaving but I messed up the sequencing and played my second bounce land before the returned T1 Aether Hub leaving me with a loss in Game 3!
Guess this is the best way to learn but I'd like to watch some informative streams when I'm not wasting play points.
I've still been playing around with it (root maze), trying to decide if there are other hate cards or consistency cards that are more worthy at the 1cmc slot. Sometimes it feels like 2 serum visions +1 simian might be more valuable, at least to people like me who don't like playing Tribe Scout. Perhaps Lotus Bloom is the card we are looking for as we only need 3 other Mana on T4 which is natural through a root maze. Mainboard outs to Blood moon are always welcome. Ordering a set now that I think about it.
I'm definitely all about Mirrorpool now, 25+ damage on T2/3 has won me several games against affinity when they had 20+ life (vault skirge beats). Not having to pay for a pact makes the kessig pump in the next turn that much larger, and it's such an easy 1x in our land tutor deck.
I've still been playing around with it (root maze), trying to decide if there are other hate cards or consistency cards that are more worthy at the 1cmc slot. Sometimes it feels like 2 serum visions +1 simian might be more valuable, at least to people like me who don't like playing Tribe Scott. Perhaps Lotus Bloom is the card we are looking for as we only need 3 other Mana on T4 which is natural through a root maze. Main board outs to Blood moon are always welcome. Ordering a set now that I think about it.
I'm definitely all about Mirrorpool now, 25+ damage on T2/3 has won me several games against affinity when they had 20+ life (vault skirge beats). Not having to pay for a pact makes the kessig pump in the next turn that much larger, and it's such an easy 1x in our land tutor deck.
Double amulet allows a Titan to essentially fetch another Titan with mirrorpool. And then give both haste with the second etb (slayers). Attack triggers -> Sunhome will give 32 damage or Kessig for 27. One of the upsides of Kessig is not needing the Boros Garrison so the kill shot is actually more consistent than the original list.
Punts Stream was great! If anyone hasn’t played with lotus bloom you should try it since it is basically pseudo amulets 4-8. I’m a huge fan of hive mind as an alternate win con to prevent the issues of meddling mage naming titan and might go up to 3 copies in the main the next time I play since my experience was that it was a win in almost every game I played it since so few decks run green. Or have +4 mana on turn 4 upkeep.
Not sure where you guys got the impression that Mirrorpool was about improving Double Amulet hands. That discovery was after I'd been using it for value and producing extra blockers and avoiding pact cost. 6 mana rather than 13 is a huge difference in ensuring that the gas never stops.
I don't know if you guys were able to check it out, but somebody named JSNYDER207 top 8d the latest Modern Challenge, and then posted a 5-0 the day before. His list is close to what we've been talking about, more towards the interactive side (2 Dismembers MD, as well as 1 Tracker. Only 2 Explores.) What truly surprised me was a full playset of Leyline of Sanctities in the board. It's a very interesting concept, and I assume it's more of a meta call than anything else. The card is great against Shadow/Discard decks, Valakut, Burn, medium vs Storm (it stops the Grapeshot kill, and we have answers to empty... but they can just bounce it and kill us anyway.) I'm very intrigued to see whether I'm missing something, but all the ones I named up there seem like favored or at least 50/50 matchups (and storm.) Any idea of what their reasoning might have been? Cause a full 4 is quite a serious commitment!
I will be checking out Punthenwhine's stream later this week, and will let you guys know if things come up!
I think the main question is whether you have more trouble getting one of your 8 copies of Titan or getting to 6 mana. Explore basically makes both happen (at a fairly slow speed). Mirrorpool avoids pact cost because you don't need a pact at all for a followup titan.
Well it’s not two extra land drops considering your spending 3 mana already so it’s 6 mana on turn 4 with an amulet. Azusa is not comparable. In paper it is a very affordable modern deck, online It is extremely affordable.
The most expensive card is Azusa which is due for a reprint. The other cards are at a low so if you want to invest I’d say buy it without Azusa and wait till the next MM set and hope she is in it.
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Grats on the 5-0 though! I def agree on the Lotus Bloom as some sweet tech against Blood Moon decks as I have been experimenting on ways to beat it as well. I'll post my list below that I have been stress testing on paper (I don't have MTGO yet to back up with a 5-0 win)
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Forest
4x Gemstone Mine
1x Gruul Turf
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Kabira Crossroads
1x Khalni Garden
1x Plains
1x Sejiri Steppe
4x Selesnya Sanctuary
3x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Slayers' Stronghold
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3x Tolaria West
1x Vesuva
3x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4x Primeval Titan
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Sakura-Tribe Scout
1x Walking Ballista
Instants
1x Pact of Negation
4x Path to Exile
4x Summoner's Pact
Sorcery
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Amulet of Vigor
1x Engineered Explosives
The paths aren't all for opponent, it's used for ourselves too. Opponent goes to kill our creature, now have the opportunity to path it and net mana off it. As for the 3 basics, I've been torn on a 4th basic and I almost want it to be an island to help with tolaria west, but the right answer is probably another forest.
As for white in the sideboard, it's always going to be based on your meta. The additions I have made is Leyline of Sanctity and Dragonlord Dromoka. Some other sweet tech could be Curse of Exhaustion for storm lists, but in most cases the sideboard is pretty standard.
1x Cavern of Souls
2x Forest
4x Gemstone Mine
1x Gruul Turf
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Kabira Crossroads
1x Khalni Garden
1x Plains
1x Sejiri Steppe
4x Selesnya Sanctuary
3x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Slayers' Stronghold
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
3x Tolaria West
1x Vesuva
3x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4x Primeval Titan
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Sakura-Tribe Scout
1x Walking Ballista
Instants
1x Pact of Negation
4x Path to Exile
4x Summoner's Pact
Sorcery
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Amulet of Vigor
1x Engineered Explosives
Yea I usually play Cockatrice, but I feel the player base isn't really that competitive/strong, where MTGO has a lot of well known competitive players, it's a lot easier to stress test a deck against those types of players.
The white sources are also for stronghold/sunhome as well as sideboard.
Sure I'll take some advice, you can PM me so we don't clog up the forum.
Wow this deck is complicated and fun. Feels like how my birthing pod deck used to, i.e. broken if you can just figure it out. I'm hooked. I desperately need some guidance because I'm timing myself out most of the time or just punting. I definitely feel like I'm not using pact / tolaria to their full potential.
For example I Turn 1 Amulet from aether hub into a Turn 2 bounce land returning hub leaving me at 3 mana. I Pact for Azuza leaving but I messed up the sequencing and played my second bounce land before the returned T1 Aether Hub leaving me with a loss in Game 3!
Guess this is the best way to learn but I'd like to watch some informative streams when I'm not wasting play points.
I'm definitely all about Mirrorpool now, 25+ damage on T2/3 has won me several games against affinity when they had 20+ life (vault skirge beats). Not having to pay for a pact makes the kessig pump in the next turn that much larger, and it's such an easy 1x in our land tutor deck.
How are you doing 25+ damage turn 2?
I will be checking out Punthenwhine's stream later this week, and will let you guys know if things come up!
The most expensive card is Azusa which is due for a reprint. The other cards are at a low so if you want to invest I’d say buy it without Azusa and wait till the next MM set and hope she is in it.