@Sgobba
I have also recently been playing Hive Mind--in the sideboard, however. I played a league today and I found myself siding it in in almost every matchup. I brought it in against eldrazi taxes, grixis shadow, eldrazi tron and the humans deck. And funnily enough, it won me 3 of my matches in post-board games. I went 4-1 that league, losing to monowhite hate bears, and beating the aforementioned decks. In the match against the humans deck it was actually my only live draw, as a titan would not have allowed me to win as they had a huge board and I was at a low life total. I've decided to try playing 1 in the main and 1 in the side. Also, winning with Hive Mind is the most deviously satisfying thing. It honestly makes me feel a little dirty, but makes me laugh at the same time. Being able to win games out of nowhere when you had no right to feels awesome. My results earlier are hardly enough to come to solid conclusions, but I'll definitely be playing Hive Mind a bit more to get a better evaluation of it in the deck in the current meta.
I love me some Hive Mind, so I'm sad that it's not that good at the moment. I do remember seeing a list a while back that cut the Scouts for Lotus Blooms and went further into the Hive Mind kill con, but it hasn't put up any results from them. I'd test it, if I had enough Lotus Blooms.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Has anyone given any thought to Oath of Nissa? I've been testing with a few copies as a supplement to Ancient Stirrings; while it doesn't get specifically Amulet, it can get Titans which Stirrings can't do (and it gets you bouncelands, which is often what you want anyways). I like it a lot more than Serum Visions, almost entirely because it's much easier to cast.
I'm treating the rider text about using any mana for planeswalker spells as flavor text, fyi (though I do think testing with something like Karn Liberated or Chandra, Flamecaller as supplementary threats has merit).
Love to see how much movement and people sharing their opinions and experiences has been in this forum lately!
I'm 100% in agreement with what Davius said. Hive Mind is not more threats, it's just a blank unless you ALSO have a pact/Tolaria. If you already have a Pact/Tolaria, why not just play that and resolve a Titan? And that Hive Mind can be a card that increases our consistency or interaction. I do see the appeal though, it's true that there are a lot of times where it is LITERALLY your only out in clogged boards and stuff like that, but I find that in most clogged up boards EE or Ballista do pretty well anyways, and those we can transmute for. I will try it from the board, and see how things go, but I remember trying it back in the day as soon as Summer Bloom got banned, and I used to draw it a lot in weird spots. Maybe the meta was too fast back then and now it slowed down enough to the point where it's the way to go?
I'm currently running a full 28 lands. I don't agree that the deck runs smoothly with just 24-25 lands anymore. It was definitely true in the Summer Bloom days, but not anymore. I think you can be ok with 27-26 if you're lucky, but going down to 25 seems like completely crazy. Also, the beauty about the 28 lands is that some of your lands can almost count as spells (like Khalnis against liliana decks and Radiant Fountain vs Burn. Even Ghost Quarter vs Tron.) This also increases our consistency. Even with 28 lands I sometimes find myself missing land drops, something this deck never EVER wants to happen, though maybe I'm just really unlucky.
I did run 2 leagues with the Kessig Wolf Run list. My results were not great, though that's mostly because I ran into 4 (FOUR) 4+ Maindeck Blood
Moon decks, and Storm. I ended up going 3-2 and 2-3, losing to RG Ponza twice, All-In Red, UR Kiki Exarch with Moons and Storm, and winning vs Storm, Burn, Humans, Bant CoCo and UW Control.
I honestly won 0 games because of Kessig, though it did help me kill a Gideon of the Trials with an Azusa in the UW matchup, which might have otherwise gotten out of hand. Then my opponent proceeded to Field of Ruin my Kessig and that was it I know I might have been a bit unlucky, but with the uptick in Blood Moons and Field or Ruins/Ghost Quarters I wonder if we should up the count to 3 or 4 Forests. I didn't exchange the second Grove for the 3rd Forest in those leagues, but that got me thinking I actually might need to. Also maybe run an Island, as to be able to EE on 3 under a BM, since now they finally fixed how Blood Moon works online, and "Vesuva your land" is no longer an option. Also, if we're running Hive Mind that Island might also become a way out... though that is maybe a little bit too many good things that need to go our way.
I'll probably continue testing a bit more, though lately I've been running a lot of BG Rock and loving it, since I've been wanting to play it for years and just now playing leagues with Amulet finally helped me save up money to buy Lilianas.
Also, those ChrisofPi lists are a thing of beauty. Just look at those Sideboard fogs for the Infect matchup! This guy really rocked this deck in the hard days! He is running more turn 1 blue sources to support the Spell Pierce and Serum Visions, though. This I feel like it's just a necessity: if we want to run Serum Visions we NEED to have more t1/t2 untapped blue sources, be it Crumbling Vestige, Botanical Sanctum, etc. Even Temple of Mistery counts. This however will not allow us to run Bojuka, Ghost Quarter and the like. It's definitely a way to go, but there's a price to pay.
Also his Pact suite is 2 Negation, 4 Summoner's, 1 Slaughter, which I really like cause I believe they're the best pacts. He is also running the Golgari Rot Farms to help pay for pacts as well. Was never a big fan of Lotus Bloom in this deck though... It doesn't synergize at all with the whole "make a bunch of land drops" plan, so I'm not so sure about that.
Hey guys so I'm coming back to this deck finally after the summer bloom banning. I really missed how this deck plays, the confused opponent who goes what the hell is happening? is this magic?. I have been going around modern decks but this deck has got to be the deck that I had found the most fun with. Plus i heard that a fave troll card of mine can be played in this deck now, Root maze. @daviusminimus if I used your deck as a base what would you tweak for 2-3 copies of it?
I think Root Maze variants have to trim Scouts/Explores for Lotus Cobras. We need a second way to abuse Root Maze's symmetric effect and that's probably the best one. Playing around with the card was surprisingly fun. The mana effect stacks in multiples and not having to tap it meant the 2/1 stats were extremely relevant at racing spell decks (Valakut/Ad Nauseam/etc.)
Crumbling Vestige also becomes very powerful, giving us T1 G sources, mana through a Root maze, and then later interacting especially powerfully with Amulet.
3 Root Maze, 4 Crumbling Vestige, 3 Lotus Cobra is a good place to start.
Edit: I found that the Root Maze variant slowed the game down enough that the overwhelming mana advantage was much more valuable. Ballista becomes an allstar. Academy Ruins and Spell Burst seem like options we could play as sometimes the deck ramps up with nowhere to go. Spell Burst delays enough turns to draw a threat, and efficiently counters path in the early turns.
All those points about Root Maze are very interesting, I didn't even think about Crumbling Vestige's stock going up in that context! The idea behind academy ruins is because of Ballista? Cause maybe Mortuary Mire might be quite sweet in that spot instead.
I just realized that my favorite thing about the ChrisofPi list is that we can still call in Amulet Bloom! All jokes aside, the list looks sweet, but Remand is played quite a bit currently, and it goes from "good" against us to "backbreaking." Also, I honestly don't consider being susceptible to fatal push that much of a drawback. Yes, it's obviously bad game 1, but after they see that we play Tribe Scouts, we basically are forcing our opponents to leave Push/Bolt in their decks, and I've won plenty of games where I play a Tusk or a Titan, and my opponent ends up conceding with 2 Fatal Pushes in hand. If you want to go the Hive Mind route, this seems like the way to go, though. Also, I'd like to see a Ballista MD in that list over the second EE. The 1 of Serum Visions simply makes me giggle
Davius, I'm also having the idea that the deck must be 95% proactive on first game rather than having probably usefull card on the main deck.
I'm interested on playing the list without Sunhome. I've been trying a version with both cards.
I got use to the idea of having 2 amulet in play and the possibility of comboing with a single Titan and giving him double strike and swinging for 20.
Kessing in the other hand, provide the possibility to increase the dmg output of all our support creatures even plant tokens, which are great under ensnaring bridge.
I imagine the version with 2 trackers main, and no sunhome, to be more consistent and midrange, which turn to be a more mature version of the deck, but it can't have crazy oppressive Turn 2 or 3 wins. Being able to chain titans in most games is enough.
If you can explain the reach of the version I would appreciate.
@daviusminimus I'll probably go 3 maze and 1 ballista coz i only found 3 mazes LOL but i totally agree that the biggest problem is not to commit to it. I also like the crumbling vestige tech so I'll try tinkering with the mana base from there.
Hey guys! So I decided to come up with a sideboard guide in preparation for the upcoming RPTQ's LCQ. Would like to know your opinions on sideboard plans, whatever I could improve on, and also to reconfirm some of my findings before I continue to grind more competitive leagues.
So here is (probably) the final list I'm bringing next week. The mainframe belongs to Davius, I merely swapped Tireless Tracker with Walking Ballista.
Below is the sideboard guide by archetypes. Do note I rely heavily on the sideboard guide posted by the Bobby Fortanely, which can be found on page 133. I also use some reference from Davius's post in page 148~.
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Primaval Titan IN
2 Pyroclasm
1 Hornet Queen
2 Dismember
1 Reclamation Sage
OUT
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Radiant Fountain
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Primaval Titan
1 Walking Ballista IN
2 Swan Song
2 Dismemer
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
2 Summoner's Pact
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Walking Ballista IN
2 Dismember
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Hornet Queen
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Tectonic Edge
OUT
1 Khalni Garden
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout IN
1 Thragtusk
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Hornet Queen
2 Swan Song
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Dismember
OUT
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout IN
1 Thragtusk
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Hornet Queen
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dismember
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Obstinate Baloth
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Walking Ballista IN
1 Thragtusk
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Reclamation Sage
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Walking Ballista IN
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Pyroclasm
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Thragtusk
1 Reclamation Sage
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Walking Ballista IN
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Swan Song
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Reclamation Sage
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker IN
2 Pyroclasm
1 Hornet Queen
2 Dismember
OUT
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker OUT
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
OUT
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Pact of Negation
1 Tireless Tracker IN
1 Thragtusk
2 Relic of Progenitus
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
2 Summoner's Pact
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Explore IN
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Hornet Queen
1 Thragtusk
OUT
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Simian Spirit Guide IN
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Relic of Progenitus
OUT
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Pact of Negation
1 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker OUT
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
OUT
1 Khalni Garden
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Walking Ballista IN
1 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
2 Swan Song
2 Relic of Progenitus
OUT
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Walking Ballista IN
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Swan Song
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Pact of Negation
1 Explore IN
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
OUT
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
1 Summoner's Pact
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker IN
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Hornet Queen
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
There are probably some decision that are not optimal to the overall game plan, and I'm still unsure of certain cards (even as I'm writing this). Let me know what you guys think.
Your list is quite different from the one I'm running, but based on what you're playing, some comments:
On Davius' comments:
100% agree with no Ruric vs Valakut. I feel like Ruric gets boarded in a bit too often in general (I've seen people even bring it in vs Burn, which I believe to be a horrific mistake.) I do like Tracker in that matchup if you're on the full 4 Explore list, though. It comes down early and clocks quite fast.
Against E Tron I agree Baloth should come in. The interaction with Reality Smasher triggers is also a thing to note (you can Dismember Smasher, discard Baloth to the triggered ability and live the dream!) I like taking out at least 1 Stirrings in that matchup, since if they have a multiple Chalice draw, they are going to come down on 0 and 1. Also, some players are (incorrectly) very afraid of amulet, and will drop their first Chalice on 1, and sometimes their suboptimal play can get you... This is one of the matchups where I like Azusa more than Scout, cause 1/1 > 1/2 vs a 4 MD Ballista deck.
Other thoughts:
Vs Storm, if I see any fetches game 1, I will leave the 1 Ghost Quarter in. It's a very awful way to getting a Forest in play when they put a BM on the stack, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do... I side out Khalni instead. If I see Shivan Reef game 1, I would board just like you stated.
Vs Tron: I actually do like Tracker in this Matchup. The main thing is that comes down fast, and it can clock a Karn, forcing it to exile our Tracker instead of a land, which can help us get there. I do not like Thragtusk at all here, so I'd just leave it in the board.
Vs Burn: As I said earlier, I think Ruric here is a mistake. By the times it comes down we're usually 1 or 2 burn spells away from dying, and they can quite happily take 12 in order to kill us. Also, it might prevent us from playing a topdecked Pact for the win. I don't think Ballista is great here, but the fact that it can kill an Eidolon while taking 0 damage makes it worth a slot in my book. Easy swap there.
Vs 5c Humans: Tusk has been actually pretty good for me in this matchup, which is becoming quite popular. Even if they Reflector Mage it, you end up getting a dude which can block. Generally we're just trying to buy time til we get a Titan, which usually ends up immediately fetching an EE, and we win. This is one of the matchups (as well as Merfolk) where the second EE in the board is incredible. Pyroclasm is super hit or miss... Quite often just 1 Lieutenant grows their army our of clasm's reach, and Mantis Rider doesn't care about clasm. This is probably the one matchup where Firespout would be preferred, though I still believe clasm or K Return are just better.
Vs Eldrazi & Taxes: against all midrange Thalia decks (unlike Humans, which is more of an Aggro deck) I like keeping Explore on the play instead of the 1 Azusa, and switch that slot if I'm on the draw. The reasoning for this is that we want to get ahead on mana, and if they have turn 2 Thalia then that makes our Explores cost the same as Azusa, and at 3 mana I'd always rather be casting Azusa. If we're on the play, though, we can cast an Explore before Thalia comes down, and start getting ahead on lands. I also like Baloth here, since it blocks everything, and even trades with TKS. And if they blink it with Flickerwisp, we at least gain 4. I'd take out an Explore or Stirrings. Against Arbiter decks I do not like boarding out a land, but you can switch the Bog for a Tec Edge, which is basically a straight upgrade. Also having more lands does reduce the need for Stirrings, since we're more likely to hit our land drops.
Vs Lantern: Taking out Azusa seems wrong, since this is the matchup where the Azusa/Tracker/Bounceland combo is at it's best. You can take out a Prime Time (since Ruric is often times better in this MU) and one Amulet.
Vs Infect: People are still playing this?! Last time I played against Infect I liked bringing in Swan Song, which reads basically U: you gain a turn with no drawback. It's a straight race, so I don't mind taking out 1 or 2 Stirrings, since I'd usually use that mana to potentially kill their threats or counter their pump spells.
Those are the matchups where I had some comments on, hope it helps. Then on some others I board in differently but mostly because my list is a bit different. I might be crazy, but I do tend to side 1 Stirrings out quite often, and you basically kept the full playset against every deck. Stirrings helps the consistency in game 1, but in post board, where you're trying to either do your thing or draw your sideboard cards to prevent your opponent from doing their thing Stirrings is usually not good at that (it only finds 3 of your sideboard cards.) For this reason I look more towards siding out Stirrings instead of Explore, which helps me progress my game plan and draws me closer to my SB cards. Thoughts?
@davius for the Jeskai matchup, good point on the Dispel/Summoner's Pact part. It also gets eaten by Spell Queller, so it makes more sense to trim some. I used to think Walking Ballista is good in this matchup since I can tutor it for the last few damage, but I guess that's more of a game 1 plan. Also, any opinion on Ruric Thar against Jeskai? It has reach to block their flying creatures, and deals damage when they try to deal with it.
On Valakut, I guess you and @fpaw are right. I had it in against Valakut because it worked out on two seperate occasion, so I was convinced it's good against them. I will have to look back at this again. Thankfully Valakut has been on a decline recently. As for Tireless Tracker, I can see the appeal as said by @fpaw (hits the board early and hard-hitting), and I like this aspect. My concern is whether is it be too slow (the card drawing aspect) and too ineffective, since it doesn't really do anything in stopping their game plan.
On Eldrazi Tron, Obstinate Baloth sounds good, I'm especially fond of the interaction from Reality Smasher.
On Storm, good point on the Ghost Quarter, I have actually did this play against an opponent who plays BM main (not storm) and won that game, so I guess it's worth keeping it.
On Tron, I mainly see Thragtusk as a resilient threat against their sweeper (Oblivion Stone and Ugin), leaving a 3/3 afterwards to continue attacking. As for Tireless Tracker, I have the same concern as above stated under Valakut.
On Burn, I kinda like Ruric Thar here since they will often take damage from their shocklands and Eidolon triggers. Comparing to Walking Ballista, Ballista just feels too slow and ineffective, and doesn't help win the game. Example, I can cast Ruric Thar when they are at 12 and they have to deal with it immediately or they are dead in 2 turns, whereas casting Ballista for X=3 doesn't stop them from winning.
@fpaw interesting that you are trimming 1 Ancient Stirrings in some matchups, it does make mathematical sense (land count, threat count and digging) which I will need some time to think this through. I will take it into consideration.
Tracker is indeed slow, but it turns extra lands into actual cards, and if you are not cracking clues that means that you're either doing something better (which means good for you) or you're dead (and none of the alternatives would save you from that.) I've liked Tracker in those MUs (Valakut/Tron), but mostly because they are better than the alternatives.
I see your reasoning on Ruric vs Burn, but in my experience it hasn't won the game fast enough either. By the time Ruric comes down we're low enough that they can still kill us while chumping Ruric. And it even takes out some of your outs, since Summoner's Pact and T West go from being game winning to a blank. Again, it's just my experience, but I don't think it's not the matchup for it.
I do like your list, and as you keep testing and figuring things out I'm interested in seeing your thoughts on the 1 of SSG over the 4th Azusa and whether it's worth the slot in your opinion.
Very interesting point Davius, and now that I think of it, it makes sense to have that approach (cutting amulets) in all or at least most of the land disruption matchups. I think against Sorcery speed LD we might still want to keep them in (especially against Ponza/Skred or random stuff like that), but your point regarding them stopping our combo turns is very true. Maybe I shouldn't cut Stirrings as much as I do, though in many post board games it tends to be much worse than in game 1. Also, if you're cutting Amulets there's even less incentive for you to keep Stirrings in, right?
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I have also recently been playing Hive Mind--in the sideboard, however. I played a league today and I found myself siding it in in almost every matchup. I brought it in against eldrazi taxes, grixis shadow, eldrazi tron and the humans deck. And funnily enough, it won me 3 of my matches in post-board games. I went 4-1 that league, losing to monowhite hate bears, and beating the aforementioned decks. In the match against the humans deck it was actually my only live draw, as a titan would not have allowed me to win as they had a huge board and I was at a low life total. I've decided to try playing 1 in the main and 1 in the side. Also, winning with Hive Mind is the most deviously satisfying thing. It honestly makes me feel a little dirty, but makes me laugh at the same time. Being able to win games out of nowhere when you had no right to feels awesome. My results earlier are hardly enough to come to solid conclusions, but I'll definitely be playing Hive Mind a bit more to get a better evaluation of it in the deck in the current meta.
I'm treating the rider text about using any mana for planeswalker spells as flavor text, fyi (though I do think testing with something like Karn Liberated or Chandra, Flamecaller as supplementary threats has merit).
I'm 100% in agreement with what Davius said. Hive Mind is not more threats, it's just a blank unless you ALSO have a pact/Tolaria. If you already have a Pact/Tolaria, why not just play that and resolve a Titan? And that Hive Mind can be a card that increases our consistency or interaction. I do see the appeal though, it's true that there are a lot of times where it is LITERALLY your only out in clogged boards and stuff like that, but I find that in most clogged up boards EE or Ballista do pretty well anyways, and those we can transmute for. I will try it from the board, and see how things go, but I remember trying it back in the day as soon as Summer Bloom got banned, and I used to draw it a lot in weird spots. Maybe the meta was too fast back then and now it slowed down enough to the point where it's the way to go?
I'm currently running a full 28 lands. I don't agree that the deck runs smoothly with just 24-25 lands anymore. It was definitely true in the Summer Bloom days, but not anymore. I think you can be ok with 27-26 if you're lucky, but going down to 25 seems like completely crazy. Also, the beauty about the 28 lands is that some of your lands can almost count as spells (like Khalnis against liliana decks and Radiant Fountain vs Burn. Even Ghost Quarter vs Tron.) This also increases our consistency. Even with 28 lands I sometimes find myself missing land drops, something this deck never EVER wants to happen, though maybe I'm just really unlucky.
I did run 2 leagues with the Kessig Wolf Run list. My results were not great, though that's mostly because I ran into 4 (FOUR) 4+ Maindeck Blood
Moon decks, and Storm. I ended up going 3-2 and 2-3, losing to RG Ponza twice, All-In Red, UR Kiki Exarch with Moons and Storm, and winning vs Storm, Burn, Humans, Bant CoCo and UW Control.
I honestly won 0 games because of Kessig, though it did help me kill a Gideon of the Trials with an Azusa in the UW matchup, which might have otherwise gotten out of hand. Then my opponent proceeded to Field of Ruin my Kessig and that was it I know I might have been a bit unlucky, but with the uptick in Blood Moons and Field or Ruins/Ghost Quarters I wonder if we should up the count to 3 or 4 Forests. I didn't exchange the second Grove for the 3rd Forest in those leagues, but that got me thinking I actually might need to. Also maybe run an Island, as to be able to EE on 3 under a BM, since now they finally fixed how Blood Moon works online, and "Vesuva your land" is no longer an option. Also, if we're running Hive Mind that Island might also become a way out... though that is maybe a little bit too many good things that need to go our way.
I'll probably continue testing a bit more, though lately I've been running a lot of BG Rock and loving it, since I've been wanting to play it for years and just now playing leagues with Amulet finally helped me save up money to buy Lilianas.
Also his Pact suite is 2 Negation, 4 Summoner's, 1 Slaughter, which I really like cause I believe they're the best pacts. He is also running the Golgari Rot Farms to help pay for pacts as well. Was never a big fan of Lotus Bloom in this deck though... It doesn't synergize at all with the whole "make a bunch of land drops" plan, so I'm not so sure about that.
Crumbling Vestige also becomes very powerful, giving us T1 G sources, mana through a Root maze, and then later interacting especially powerfully with Amulet.
3 Root Maze, 4 Crumbling Vestige, 3 Lotus Cobra is a good place to start.
Edit: I found that the Root Maze variant slowed the game down enough that the overwhelming mana advantage was much more valuable. Ballista becomes an allstar. Academy Ruins and Spell Burst seem like options we could play as sometimes the deck ramps up with nowhere to go. Spell Burst delays enough turns to draw a threat, and efficiently counters path in the early turns.
That wasn't me, but I'll vicariously live through them and take credit for inspiring them, though.
I just realized that my favorite thing about the ChrisofPi list is that we can still call in Amulet Bloom! All jokes aside, the list looks sweet, but Remand is played quite a bit currently, and it goes from "good" against us to "backbreaking." Also, I honestly don't consider being susceptible to fatal push that much of a drawback. Yes, it's obviously bad game 1, but after they see that we play Tribe Scouts, we basically are forcing our opponents to leave Push/Bolt in their decks, and I've won plenty of games where I play a Tusk or a Titan, and my opponent ends up conceding with 2 Fatal Pushes in hand. If you want to go the Hive Mind route, this seems like the way to go, though. Also, I'd like to see a Ballista MD in that list over the second EE. The 1 of Serum Visions simply makes me giggle
I'm interested on playing the list without Sunhome. I've been trying a version with both cards.
I got use to the idea of having 2 amulet in play and the possibility of comboing with a single Titan and giving him double strike and swinging for 20.
Kessing in the other hand, provide the possibility to increase the dmg output of all our support creatures even plant tokens, which are great under ensnaring bridge.
I imagine the version with 2 trackers main, and no sunhome, to be more consistent and midrange, which turn to be a more mature version of the deck, but it can't have crazy oppressive Turn 2 or 3 wins. Being able to chain titans in most games is enough.
If you can explain the reach of the version I would appreciate.
I’m going to test it. At worse I could keep 29 land count and remove ssg for sunhome :).
Thanks for your reply, having explosives and PoN are still very strong insurance in mainboard.
So here is (probably) the final list I'm bringing next week. The mainframe belongs to Davius, I merely swapped Tireless Tracker with Walking Ballista.
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
1 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Primeval Titan
1 Walking Ballista
Non-Creatures
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Explore
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pact of Negation
Lands
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boros Garrison
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Forest
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Gruul Turf
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Khalni Garden
1 Radiant Fountain
4 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Slayers' Stronghold
3 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
2 Swan Song
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Primaval Titan
IN
2 Pyroclasm
1 Hornet Queen
2 Dismember
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Radiant Fountain
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Primaval Titan
1 Walking Ballista
IN
2 Swan Song
2 Dismemer
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
2 Summoner's Pact
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Walking Ballista
IN
2 Dismember
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Hornet Queen
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Khalni Garden
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
IN
1 Thragtusk
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Hornet Queen
2 Swan Song
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Dismember
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Sakura-Tribe Scout
IN
1 Thragtusk
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Hornet Queen
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dismember
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Walking Ballista
IN
1 Thragtusk
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Walking Ballista
IN
1 Obstinate Baloth
2 Pyroclasm
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Thragtusk
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Walking Ballista
IN
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Swan Song
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
IN
2 Pyroclasm
1 Hornet Queen
2 Dismember
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Summoner's Pact
1 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
OUT
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Pact of Negation
1 Tireless Tracker
IN
1 Thragtusk
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
2 Summoner's Pact
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Explore
IN
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Hornet Queen
1 Thragtusk
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Simian Spirit Guide
IN
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Pact of Negation
1 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
OUT
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
1 Khalni Garden
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Walking Ballista
IN
1 Thragtusk
1 Hornet Queen
2 Swan Song
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Walking Ballista
IN
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Swan Song
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Pact of Negation
1 Explore
IN
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pact of Negation
1 Summoner's Pact
2 Explore
1 Tireless Tracker
IN
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Hornet Queen
2 Dismember
2 Pyroclasm
On Davius' comments:
100% agree with no Ruric vs Valakut. I feel like Ruric gets boarded in a bit too often in general (I've seen people even bring it in vs Burn, which I believe to be a horrific mistake.) I do like Tracker in that matchup if you're on the full 4 Explore list, though. It comes down early and clocks quite fast.
Against E Tron I agree Baloth should come in. The interaction with Reality Smasher triggers is also a thing to note (you can Dismember Smasher, discard Baloth to the triggered ability and live the dream!) I like taking out at least 1 Stirrings in that matchup, since if they have a multiple Chalice draw, they are going to come down on 0 and 1. Also, some players are (incorrectly) very afraid of amulet, and will drop their first Chalice on 1, and sometimes their suboptimal play can get you... This is one of the matchups where I like Azusa more than Scout, cause 1/1 > 1/2 vs a 4 MD Ballista deck.
Other thoughts:
Vs Storm, if I see any fetches game 1, I will leave the 1 Ghost Quarter in. It's a very awful way to getting a Forest in play when they put a BM on the stack, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do... I side out Khalni instead. If I see Shivan Reef game 1, I would board just like you stated.
Vs Tron: I actually do like Tracker in this Matchup. The main thing is that comes down fast, and it can clock a Karn, forcing it to exile our Tracker instead of a land, which can help us get there. I do not like Thragtusk at all here, so I'd just leave it in the board.
Vs Burn: As I said earlier, I think Ruric here is a mistake. By the times it comes down we're usually 1 or 2 burn spells away from dying, and they can quite happily take 12 in order to kill us. Also, it might prevent us from playing a topdecked Pact for the win. I don't think Ballista is great here, but the fact that it can kill an Eidolon while taking 0 damage makes it worth a slot in my book. Easy swap there.
Vs 5c Humans: Tusk has been actually pretty good for me in this matchup, which is becoming quite popular. Even if they Reflector Mage it, you end up getting a dude which can block. Generally we're just trying to buy time til we get a Titan, which usually ends up immediately fetching an EE, and we win. This is one of the matchups (as well as Merfolk) where the second EE in the board is incredible. Pyroclasm is super hit or miss... Quite often just 1 Lieutenant grows their army our of clasm's reach, and Mantis Rider doesn't care about clasm. This is probably the one matchup where Firespout would be preferred, though I still believe clasm or K Return are just better.
Vs Eldrazi & Taxes: against all midrange Thalia decks (unlike Humans, which is more of an Aggro deck) I like keeping Explore on the play instead of the 1 Azusa, and switch that slot if I'm on the draw. The reasoning for this is that we want to get ahead on mana, and if they have turn 2 Thalia then that makes our Explores cost the same as Azusa, and at 3 mana I'd always rather be casting Azusa. If we're on the play, though, we can cast an Explore before Thalia comes down, and start getting ahead on lands. I also like Baloth here, since it blocks everything, and even trades with TKS. And if they blink it with Flickerwisp, we at least gain 4. I'd take out an Explore or Stirrings. Against Arbiter decks I do not like boarding out a land, but you can switch the Bog for a Tec Edge, which is basically a straight upgrade. Also having more lands does reduce the need for Stirrings, since we're more likely to hit our land drops.
Vs Lantern: Taking out Azusa seems wrong, since this is the matchup where the Azusa/Tracker/Bounceland combo is at it's best. You can take out a Prime Time (since Ruric is often times better in this MU) and one Amulet.
Vs Infect: People are still playing this?! Last time I played against Infect I liked bringing in Swan Song, which reads basically U: you gain a turn with no drawback. It's a straight race, so I don't mind taking out 1 or 2 Stirrings, since I'd usually use that mana to potentially kill their threats or counter their pump spells.
Those are the matchups where I had some comments on, hope it helps. Then on some others I board in differently but mostly because my list is a bit different. I might be crazy, but I do tend to side 1 Stirrings out quite often, and you basically kept the full playset against every deck. Stirrings helps the consistency in game 1, but in post board, where you're trying to either do your thing or draw your sideboard cards to prevent your opponent from doing their thing Stirrings is usually not good at that (it only finds 3 of your sideboard cards.) For this reason I look more towards siding out Stirrings instead of Explore, which helps me progress my game plan and draws me closer to my SB cards. Thoughts?
On Valakut, I guess you and @fpaw are right. I had it in against Valakut because it worked out on two seperate occasion, so I was convinced it's good against them. I will have to look back at this again. Thankfully Valakut has been on a decline recently. As for Tireless Tracker, I can see the appeal as said by @fpaw (hits the board early and hard-hitting), and I like this aspect. My concern is whether is it be too slow (the card drawing aspect) and too ineffective, since it doesn't really do anything in stopping their game plan.
On Eldrazi Tron, Obstinate Baloth sounds good, I'm especially fond of the interaction from Reality Smasher.
On Storm, good point on the Ghost Quarter, I have actually did this play against an opponent who plays BM main (not storm) and won that game, so I guess it's worth keeping it.
On Tron, I mainly see Thragtusk as a resilient threat against their sweeper (Oblivion Stone and Ugin), leaving a 3/3 afterwards to continue attacking. As for Tireless Tracker, I have the same concern as above stated under Valakut.
On Burn, I kinda like Ruric Thar here since they will often take damage from their shocklands and Eidolon triggers. Comparing to Walking Ballista, Ballista just feels too slow and ineffective, and doesn't help win the game. Example, I can cast Ruric Thar when they are at 12 and they have to deal with it immediately or they are dead in 2 turns, whereas casting Ballista for X=3 doesn't stop them from winning.
@fpaw interesting that you are trimming 1 Ancient Stirrings in some matchups, it does make mathematical sense (land count, threat count and digging) which I will need some time to think this through. I will take it into consideration.
I see your reasoning on Ruric vs Burn, but in my experience it hasn't won the game fast enough either. By the time Ruric comes down we're low enough that they can still kill us while chumping Ruric. And it even takes out some of your outs, since Summoner's Pact and T West go from being game winning to a blank. Again, it's just my experience, but I don't think it's not the matchup for it.
I do like your list, and as you keep testing and figuring things out I'm interested in seeing your thoughts on the 1 of SSG over the 4th Azusa and whether it's worth the slot in your opinion.
Very interesting point Davius, and now that I think of it, it makes sense to have that approach (cutting amulets) in all or at least most of the land disruption matchups. I think against Sorcery speed LD we might still want to keep them in (especially against Ponza/Skred or random stuff like that), but your point regarding them stopping our combo turns is very true. Maybe I shouldn't cut Stirrings as much as I do, though in many post board games it tends to be much worse than in game 1. Also, if you're cutting Amulets there's even less incentive for you to keep Stirrings in, right?