That largely depends on what gets hit. If Bloom goes down, the deck is entirely unplayable. It becomes a turn 6 "combo" at best. And I say combo loosely because at that point it just becomes a mid rangey type of deck. This means it gets absolutely destroyed by every other deck in the format. If Amulet gets hit, the deck is still good. It becomes a turn 3 combo at best which is what the format is supposed to be. If Amulet gets hit, it can easily be replaced with card draw like sleight of hand or anticipate. Maybe even both because Ancient Stirrings becomes worse as well.
Public Mod Note
(ktkenshinx):
Warning for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
If either Amulet or Bloom get hit I think the deck is done for. There are so many better combo decks to be playing at that point that it's not even worth it.
If Hivemind gets hit the deck is still playable though definitely less powerful.
I have about half the deck done right now (just missing some lands, Asuza and Summ. Pact) and if anything gets hit I'm selling it off. I've been waiting since September before buying any cards for the deck lol, the anticipation is killing me!
Public Mod Note
(ktkenshinx):
Infraction for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
I just ended up quoting this on reddit to someone, here's the reference made to "the turn 4 rule" that everyone likes to use to talk about how Bloom needs to be banned:
"We used two criteria to guide us in choosing what cards to ban. First, we have a rule of thumb about Legacy that we don't like consistent turn-two combination decks, but that turn-three combination decks are okay. We modified that rule for Modern by adding a turn to each side: we are going to allow turn-four combination decks, but not decks that consistently win the game on turn three."
I don't know how you guys feel about it, but I think Bloom Titan is pretty far from "consistently win the game on turn three." I guess for me, the reason the deck has so much appeal is because it has a ton of inevitability for a combo deck. The longer it takes for you to put the combo pieces together, the more powerful it becomes. The same can't really be said of something like storm or ad nauseum. Those decks are as powerful as they are going to be whether that is on turn 2 or turn 6. Bloom Titan COMMONLY gets stuck in a grindfest style of match where your opponent can't play optimally because they have to be prepared for the titan and you can't go spending all your resources on titans that are going to be removed anyway. It's the ability to keep 1 titan on the field and tutor up the next one as needed that is what makes the deck truly shine. The fact that it can hit for 20 on turn 2 is just a happy byproduct of the way the deck functions.
Public Mod Note
(ktkenshinx):
Warning for Modern banlist discussion outside of the official thread -ktkenshinx-
This rule is in place to ensure that deck-thread discussion is focused on development and strategy, not ban speculation, panicmongering, flaming, trolling, and all the other stuff that detracts from actually playing the deck. Although there are certainly some benefits to talking about ban likelihoods within a specific deck thread (informing new players, talking to the deck experts, etc.), those benefits are far outweighed by the costs of lowering the discussion quality.
What are everyone's thoughts on Dismember? I'm not sure it fits with the deck. Debating whether or not to replace them with Thragtusks or something else. Thragtusk is nice because often I find myself with 5 mana open while not being able to hit 6 and he would be a lifesaver in those instances. Also is it worth it to go from 27 to 26 lands to fit EE in main? What would be cut?
List looks fine. SB could use some changes. You dont need Dromoka, Sigarda is much better. Take out 1 Firespout + 1 Thragtusk for 2x Engineered explosives. Rest looks solid
I know this is a bit old; but I am "new" to the deck (I haven't played it in months and months). Dromoka literally won me at least one game last night and made it something that had to be answered in another. I think it is solid in the right match.
What are everyone's thoughts on Dismember? I'm not sure it fits with the deck. Debating whether or not to replace them with Thragtusks or something else. Thragtusk is nice because often I find myself with 5 mana open while not being able to hit 6 and he would be a lifesaver in those instances. Also is it worth it to go from 27 to 26 lands to fit EE in main? What would be cut?
I guess what are you planning to usually hit with Dismember?
EE main is awesome (in my limited experience; especially recently).
dismembe is awesome for jund, storm, infect and probably some matches im missing. like zoo decks with magus of the moon.
also you should almost always be getting a titan on turn 3. if your getting them usually later than that you should mulligan more aggresively, unless of course your doing it on purpose cause your playing vs a slow control deck and can afford to. and main explosives is awesome. ive won 2 game because I had something that cost'd 0 that I could t west for so I could counter it with a pact of negation with hive mind out and it is just amazing in general.
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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
I say it again and again but Dragonlord Dromoka is really bad. it dies easily to the control decks its supposed to be good against without leaving behind any value..
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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
ive won 2 game because I had something that cost'd 0 that I could t west for so I could counter it with a pact of negation with hive mind out and it is just amazing in general.
Aren't you supposed to twest for summoner's pact in that situation? With Hive Mind out you cast Summoner's, hold priority with the Hivemind trigger on the stack and then hit your own summoner's with Negation. Then your opponent has 9 mana worth of spells he has to pay for on his upkeep, 4 of which are color specific. Why would you twest for EE in that situation?
Anyone play against this newish Knightfall deck yet? Seems like a tough matchup for Bloom and a T3 combo is almost unbeatable. I've been siding out Hivemind+PoN package for enchantment hate and Swan Song but if they resolve Coral Helm with Knight on the table it's pretty much game over. I guess EE would take care of him though. Anyone else played against it?
Yeah I was debating whether or not to go the removal or enchantment hate route. This was all in the spirit of casual testing, so I was just trying different things. Generally I'm not too concerned about the creatures besides Knight as I usually win unless he can resolve him and Coral Helm. I guess Pyroclasm could work as well to get rid of the mana dorks/exalted triggers.
No more summoners pact! I was playing vs UWR control3
knight fall deck is a easy matchup, like normal zoo deck except with enchantment that wins, but most other zoo deck runs 2-3 blood moon so its not actually different very much. just side in enchantment hate
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
Any thoughts on Crumbling Vestiage for Bloom? Kind of a multirole card in all: it provides two mana with an Amulet out, lets you cast your Amulet, Visions, or Stirrings turn one, but doesn't bounce itself to make the usual six mana with Amulet Bloom. Sort of a hybrid between a Tendo Ice Bridge/Gemstone and Bounceland.
Crumbling Vestige
Land
Crumbling Vestige enters the battlefield tapped.
When Crumbling Vestige enters the battlefield, add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Hey,
Im playing this deck now for almost a year, played alot of mtgo to practice and even had some moderate success with it at a gp. But what i am still wondering:
What ist the best decklist. Since im writing this from my phone i can't give you a full decklist. But our lists look pretty similiar anyway.
So I am running 27 lands 4 of them gemstone mine as my only rainbowlands and 2 forest 1 island MD. I often encounter people who multi ghostquarter me thinking they can wasteland me. And a lot of people prepare for this deck, any fair/interactive deck runs GQ, so you need atleast 2 basics. But ifeel safer to search up 2 forest at the same time to make sure you can pay pacts.
Im running no SSG, 4 serums vision, 3 ancient stirrings, 1 sleight of hand.
2 azusa, 2 hivemind.
For the last 2 slots i play:
EE MD which has me won serveral games since people do need to overextend the board against us, or just to have these tiny little outs you need sometimes ( killing ensnaring bridge, boogles, nacatls or junds cmc2 board)
And currently im testing explore, went from 3 to 2 and now to 1. i feel against fulminator decks the card is quite good but other than that it is just a very wesk bloom effect which is only good when u have a fair draw.
SB looks also pretty normal:
3 leyline
2 seals
1 GQ
2 pyroclasm
1 firespout
1 hornetqueen
2 swang song
1 bojuka bog
1 dragonlord atarka
1 thragtusk/ruri thar ( shifting from time to time )
Reasoning on SB:
Bojuka bog, i feel bad leaving home without GY hate, and it is sooo easy to board. So many ways to tutor it into play. Only thing its lacking is insta speed. Im boarding it in against any deck using SCM or goyfs. Since pyroclasm + bojuka bog CAN kill goyfs and KotR. But i don't see this card to often in other sideboards.
Dragonlord atarka is in the deck for threat diversity and wiping boards, killing lilianas etc. Best played against affinity combined with hornet queen. I once played dragonlord dromaka im that spot but haven't missed him since.
Thragtusk/ruric thar is shifting from time to time. I believe that thragtusk is so low on impact only worth for burn, which is already a favorable MU. So im testing ruric thar at the moment again. He sure is good against combo decks, but like every green creature in your board you need a very good reason to tutor with pact for it. Often its just better to titan into pact of negation when u are playing other combo decks. So iam not always 100% sure just to dump all green creatures but hornet queen from the SB.
I often feel my decklist is not 100% perfect but i have a good winpercentage, just wondering if this list can be even more optimized!
I hope we can find a perfect list all together!
Hmm. Against Knightfall, has anyone considered Bojuka Bog? I run Sakura-Tribe Scout in my Bloom list, and the ability to tutor for Bog via Tolaria West (or Titan and bounceland it), then hold Tribe-Scout open with the ability to use it for an instant Crypt effect, sounds like it would be pretty strong at shutting down Knight of the Reliquary. They would still have Kessig Wolf Run, but it would steal a lot of their thunder.
Just a thought, not sure if Bog is worth a sideboard slot. And obviously it loses a lot of value if you don't run Tribe Scout.
Edit: I see AtomConfirmer already mentioned this. But dunno if you considered the Tribe-Scout for instant speed?
Against Knightfall, does anyone think there's any use for "landfall hate" cards like Polluted Bonds, Shattered Angel, Sire of Stagnation, or Tunnel Ignus? I think Bonds is the strongest since it can't be Pathed, but they all have the problem that Knightfall can just change over to its beatdown plan. Also none of them are searchable with Pact.
@AmuletControl - I'm not sure I agree with your statement. I assess hands on their ability to play a titan on T3 on the draw, or T4 on the play. If I'm more than 1 card away from achieving that, then I ship it. So I'm more often than not aiming for a T3 Titan. There's only so much interaction that can stop you if you have those hands (e.g. discard and counter magic), and a good half of the meta is agro or combo, who won't disrupt you at all. So actually, I'm guessing half the games you play a titan on T3/T4. Counter Magic isn't even always guaranteed to do the job, as sometimes you have cavern of souls.
Yeah, when I keep hands, I tend to be very loose in what I keep. There's just so much room for bad hands in a deck like this. You really need a lot of different combo pieces, the cards individually tend to do very little, and you're playing 27 lands. Last week I averaged less than 6 cards in my opening hand. Thankfully, players made huge mistakes to let me win games, including a 4-land opening hand against RG Tron.
If Hivemind gets hit the deck is still playable though definitely less powerful.
I have about half the deck done right now (just missing some lands, Asuza and Summ. Pact) and if anything gets hit I'm selling it off. I've been waiting since September before buying any cards for the deck lol, the anticipation is killing me!
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
"We used two criteria to guide us in choosing what cards to ban. First, we have a rule of thumb about Legacy that we don't like consistent turn-two combination decks, but that turn-three combination decks are okay. We modified that rule for Modern by adding a turn to each side: we are going to allow turn-four combination decks, but not decks that consistently win the game on turn three."
I don't know how you guys feel about it, but I think Bloom Titan is pretty far from "consistently win the game on turn three." I guess for me, the reason the deck has so much appeal is because it has a ton of inevitability for a combo deck. The longer it takes for you to put the combo pieces together, the more powerful it becomes. The same can't really be said of something like storm or ad nauseum. Those decks are as powerful as they are going to be whether that is on turn 2 or turn 6. Bloom Titan COMMONLY gets stuck in a grindfest style of match where your opponent can't play optimally because they have to be prepared for the titan and you can't go spending all your resources on titans that are going to be removed anyway. It's the ability to keep 1 titan on the field and tutor up the next one as needed that is what makes the deck truly shine. The fact that it can hit for 20 on turn 2 is just a happy byproduct of the way the deck functions.
This rule is in place to ensure that deck-thread discussion is focused on development and strategy, not ban speculation, panicmongering, flaming, trolling, and all the other stuff that detracts from actually playing the deck. Although there are certainly some benefits to talking about ban likelihoods within a specific deck thread (informing new players, talking to the deck experts, etc.), those benefits are far outweighed by the costs of lowering the discussion quality.
Carry on (without any banlist discusion)!
3x Ancient Stirrings
2x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Boros Garrison
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Forest
4x Gemstone Mine
1x Golgari Rot Farm
3x Gruul Turf
2x Hive Mind
1x Island
1x Khalni Garden
1x Mana Confluence
2x Pact of Negation
4x Primeval Titan
1x Radiant Fountain
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
4x Serum Visions
4x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Slayers' Stronghold
3x Sleight of Hand
4x Summer Bloom
4x Summoner's Pact
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1x Temple of Mystery
3x Tolaria West
1x Vesuva
2x Dismember
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Hornet Queen
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Nature's Claim
2x Pyroclasm
2x Seal of Primordium
2x Swan Song
What are everyone's thoughts on Dismember? I'm not sure it fits with the deck. Debating whether or not to replace them with Thragtusks or something else. Thragtusk is nice because often I find myself with 5 mana open while not being able to hit 6 and he would be a lifesaver in those instances. Also is it worth it to go from 27 to 26 lands to fit EE in main? What would be cut?
EE main is awesome (in my limited experience; especially recently).
also you should almost always be getting a titan on turn 3. if your getting them usually later than that you should mulligan more aggresively, unless of course your doing it on purpose cause your playing vs a slow control deck and can afford to. and main explosives is awesome. ive won 2 game because I had something that cost'd 0 that I could t west for so I could counter it with a pact of negation with hive mind out and it is just amazing in general.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
Aren't you supposed to twest for summoner's pact in that situation? With Hive Mind out you cast Summoner's, hold priority with the Hivemind trigger on the stack and then hit your own summoner's with Negation. Then your opponent has 9 mana worth of spells he has to pay for on his upkeep, 4 of which are color specific. Why would you twest for EE in that situation?
knight fall deck is a easy matchup, like normal zoo deck except with enchantment that wins, but most other zoo deck runs 2-3 blood moon so its not actually different very much. just side in enchantment hate
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
Im playing this deck now for almost a year, played alot of mtgo to practice and even had some moderate success with it at a gp. But what i am still wondering:
What ist the best decklist. Since im writing this from my phone i can't give you a full decklist. But our lists look pretty similiar anyway.
So I am running 27 lands 4 of them gemstone mine as my only rainbowlands and 2 forest 1 island MD. I often encounter people who multi ghostquarter me thinking they can wasteland me. And a lot of people prepare for this deck, any fair/interactive deck runs GQ, so you need atleast 2 basics. But ifeel safer to search up 2 forest at the same time to make sure you can pay pacts.
Im running no SSG, 4 serums vision, 3 ancient stirrings, 1 sleight of hand.
2 azusa, 2 hivemind.
For the last 2 slots i play:
EE MD which has me won serveral games since people do need to overextend the board against us, or just to have these tiny little outs you need sometimes ( killing ensnaring bridge, boogles, nacatls or junds cmc2 board)
And currently im testing explore, went from 3 to 2 and now to 1. i feel against fulminator decks the card is quite good but other than that it is just a very wesk bloom effect which is only good when u have a fair draw.
SB looks also pretty normal:
3 leyline
2 seals
1 GQ
2 pyroclasm
1 firespout
1 hornetqueen
2 swang song
1 bojuka bog
1 dragonlord atarka
1 thragtusk/ruri thar ( shifting from time to time )
Reasoning on SB:
Bojuka bog, i feel bad leaving home without GY hate, and it is sooo easy to board. So many ways to tutor it into play. Only thing its lacking is insta speed. Im boarding it in against any deck using SCM or goyfs. Since pyroclasm + bojuka bog CAN kill goyfs and KotR. But i don't see this card to often in other sideboards.
Dragonlord atarka is in the deck for threat diversity and wiping boards, killing lilianas etc. Best played against affinity combined with hornet queen. I once played dragonlord dromaka im that spot but haven't missed him since.
Thragtusk/ruric thar is shifting from time to time. I believe that thragtusk is so low on impact only worth for burn, which is already a favorable MU. So im testing ruric thar at the moment again. He sure is good against combo decks, but like every green creature in your board you need a very good reason to tutor with pact for it. Often its just better to titan into pact of negation when u are playing other combo decks. So iam not always 100% sure just to dump all green creatures but hornet queen from the SB.
I often feel my decklist is not 100% perfect but i have a good winpercentage, just wondering if this list can be even more optimized!
I hope we can find a perfect list all together!
Just a thought, not sure if Bog is worth a sideboard slot. And obviously it loses a lot of value if you don't run Tribe Scout.
Edit: I see AtomConfirmer already mentioned this. But dunno if you considered the Tribe-Scout for instant speed?
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
Yeah, when I keep hands, I tend to be very loose in what I keep. There's just so much room for bad hands in a deck like this. You really need a lot of different combo pieces, the cards individually tend to do very little, and you're playing 27 lands. Last week I averaged less than 6 cards in my opening hand. Thankfully, players made huge mistakes to let me win games, including a 4-land opening hand against RG Tron.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer