Im pretty new to the deck, so i have a question many people may have asked in the past, whats up with inkmoth nexus + kessig wolf run??
It's rare to play that, but sometimes people play it as another win condition. I know RG Tron used to play it sometimes, it was pretty rare. With Primeval Titan, you can immediately find the pair of them from a single trigger. With Amulet in play, they also immediately untap. I wouldn't advise playing them, the deck doesn't want to play two lands that don't synergize well. Kessig Wolf Run is a relic from the days when Primeval Titan was in Standard, as it used to be one of the go to lands to use with Titan.
Any thoughts on running sundering titan in that slot? Interesting? Easily powerful enough but I'd guess maybe too costly.
Those running simian spirit guide; how do you deal with the loss in consistency? The original versions of the deck ran guides, but then people started dropping them and putting in ancient stirrings to try to shake off the 'glass cannon' thing and get the deck to be more consistent. Consistency is king in modern, so why the switch back?
If ancient stirrings could also find summer bloom or even azusa, we wouldnt even be having the conversation.. However, only finding lands and amulet is often a problem and not what you need.. Spirit guide can act as a land anyway, shaving one turn off.
Even if I run spirit guides, the meta has shifted here, to more twin and jund, which makes the guides worse, and I will try sleight or ancient stirrings instead..
Well that sounds good on paper, but my opponent just had a bolt for the plant (i played it out properly as far as I'm aware). I don't like to deal in absolutes. Liliana can take out titans fairly easily despite our best efforts.
On fact it wasn't just one game. This trend happened over several pre-board games against jund. They had the removal. They could pay for pacts and they had discard for our fairly fragile acceleration package. I don't think this deck is designed to deal with hyper-interactive decks pre-board.
So do you just not play Sigarda out of the board at all?
Well that sounds good on paper, but my opponent just had a bolt for the plant (i played it out properly as far as I'm aware). I don't like to deal in absolutes. Liliana can take out titans fairly easily despite our best efforts.
On fact it wasn't just one game. This trend happened over several pre-board games against jund. They had the removal. They could pay for pacts and they had discard for our fairly fragile acceleration package. I don't think this deck is designed to deal with hyper-interactive decks pre-board.
So do you just not play Sigarda out of the board at all?
good point. this was a testing gauntlet and the games were mostly pre-board. I don't have sigarda in there (not everyone uses it) but i really like the card, so it'll be the first change i make going forward.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Sorry for the double post (they are 24 hours apart and about different topics so it seems appropriate to keep them separate)
Over at channelfireball one of their pros did a deck tech and match series with Sam Black's latest amulet bloom list. Was on October 13th.
Most notable for me was the double vesuva. Watching the guy's plays closely it was clear that having the extra vesuva just gives you so many options. I was convinced and immediately traded for a second one.
Also interesting inclusion was the temple of mystery. There are already proponents in this thread and I'm also sold on the idea. Got out my foil.
Finally was the inclusion of a single forest in the sideboard. Seemed to be relevant in quite a few situations and I'm not completely opposed to the idea even if it's a bit unusual.
Other more predictable inclusions:
Engineered explosives in the side (I've been experimenting with it in the main but i may move it over).
1x simian spirit guide in the main. Seemed bad when he drew it. Still don't understand why it's there. If you don't draw it in your opener it's just awful, and you'll rarely draw it in your opener because you've only got one. 85% of the time it's going to be a horrible dead-draw in the mid game. I'd love to hear Sam black explain his reasoning on that one because it baffles me.
1x sleight of hand. I like this card more and more all the time. I'm wondering if it could replace some number of ancient stirrings but then stirrings is pretty critical a lot of the time, allowing you to fetch titans as well as amulets because of the tolaria west chain.
Overall I liked his series. I saw some plays where I thought I could have done it better. I feel like I'm getting to grips with the nuance now which is a nice feeling.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Purklefluff - Simian Spirit Guide is good in the opener, and by only having access to 1, the likely of top-decking it late is a lot less. I like it, it's good at ramping an Azusa out mainly. Certain match-ups you don't want to be casting cantrips for 2 turns, Azusa on 3 and titan on 4... it just won't win on the draw vs the faster decks in the format. Spirit guide helps those match-ups, giving you more keepable hands.
Temple is decent, I've moved it in and out a lot! Sleight of hand, for me, is just a better card than stirrings. the ability to dig for a bloom or titan is crucial when goldfishing!
The forest in the board isn't something I like. I'd much rather just have it in the main. I'm on Kanister's side here, the 2nd forest is no better than the first - may as well make it an island! When Path / Ghost Quarter is popular, having access to 2 basics is good, but I'd put that in the main, not in the board. As I said, I'd choose an island. It allows you to play a hive mind under blood moon and still win!
I did test double vesuva a while ago and hated it. I saw how it worked in his video series, but I think that was down to bad draws and very some pretty situational circumstances (for example, he top-decked a vesuva AND slayers' stronghold, so needed vesuva No.2). I played only about 10 games with it, thinking I was genius when I put it in, only to play all 10 matches and search for vesuva No.2 just once (so, approx. 25 games, used once). I didn't like it. It just allows you to be sloppy.
Re vesuva; I'll be testing two for the time being. I've only seen it give more versatility, and cases of screwing your opener are rarer than the positives it gives. If it doesn't work out I'll drop it straight away. Lord knows my EDH deck could use a vesuva :).
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I've been tinkering on and off with a titan build and I feel drawn to Mortuary Mire as a way to help recur titans against decks with lots of removal and discard. It could definitely lead to some late game shenanigans with a Mire followed by a cantrip and then casting a titan. Anyone else feel inclined towards including this land?
I've been tinkering on and off with a titan build and I feel drawn to Mortuary Mire as a way to help recur titans against decks with lots of removal and discard. It could definitely lead to some late game shenanigans with a Mire followed by a cantrip and then casting a titan. Anyone else feel inclined towards including this land?
I mean sure. Against removal heavy decks they only need four removal spells before we're effectively out of the game (assuming they have some pressure). Having some recursion could be extremely powerful. Test it and get back to us?
(also seriously on the removal thing. Do we just have to get lucky to beat jund?)
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
Sigarda is a waste of sideboard space, only reason Cohen ran so much creatures in his board was because junk was 30%!!!! of the pro tour meta.
I run 3 ancient stirring and 3 sleight of hands.
also stirrings can find a threat, it can find tolaria wests.
I disagree. Sigarda single handedly wins a few matchups and is good in others. It's a resilient threat for removal heavy matchups and jund cant deal with it. You can win games with just a leyline and a sigarda, dont nedd anything else.
Yeah, I like Sigarda. It's probably not worth the spot if nobody is playing sac cards, my meta has some amount of BGx, a dedicated Living End player, and a CoCo player who plays Shriekmaw. If you dodge everything, I think you can find something better.
..... the whole point of the deck is to ramp to a threat, your threat is supposed to win the game on it's own! the only reason I would player her is if you were very scared of living end. A trick I found is to discard Primeval Titan to hand size
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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
The issue I've always had with Sigarda is the fact that most of the time she is smaller than goyf. That makes her quite bad at racing, i was getting killed by a bunch of Jund's creatures before i got my 3-4 swings in.
And it's WW in a deck with 8-9 white sources.
I mean chances are you're going titan before sigarda so a slayer stronghold sigarda is out racing a 5/6 goyf (though I find it rare that they get past 4/5)
However if you're looking for a creature who just flat out wins when resolved against BGx and you dislike Sigarda you might be interested in another Justin Cohen throwback and just play Hornet Queen. I have legitimately never lost to BGx after resolving a hornet queen.
Radiant Flames is bad bad bad. we play alot of lands that tap for colorless. dealing 3 is as much as firespout. I like pyroclasm the most because it costs 2.
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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
..... the whole point of the deck is to ramp to a threat, your threat is supposed to win the game on it's own! the only reason I would player her is if you were very scared of living end. A trick I found is to discard Primeval Titan to hand size
This works in game one if you have a backup Titan available, in game 2 they can bring in spot graveyard removal and your titan will get exiled before they fire off a Living End. The worst thing in Living End are the Fulminator Mages...
Been running Sigarda on my sideboard and she is a beast! I run Dragonlord Dromoka on my main as one off mainly because Burn/Jeskai Burn heavy meta on my region. I have been tempted to switch my Ancient Stirrings for Sleight of Hands for a while now. While Stirrings searchers deeper and can hit amulet/tolaria west/bounceland, being able to pick up other threats straight away seems good.
As someone who used to play UWR control in modern Dragonlord Dromoka isn't even close to good vs them, it just lets them trade 1 for 1 with you easily.
one path to exile and it leaves behind no value at all. it's decent for burn I guess but they also play paths post board, and unless your at 1 life you will rarely lose to burn after playing a titan, of course it has happened to me but yeah, i think dromoka is terribad. dies easily while leaving behind 0 value
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To see the world in a grain of sand, and to see heaven in a wild flower, hold infinity in the palm of your hands, and eternity in an hour. - William Blake
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
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Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
If ancient stirrings could also find summer bloom or even azusa, we wouldnt even be having the conversation.. However, only finding lands and amulet is often a problem and not what you need.. Spirit guide can act as a land anyway, shaving one turn off.
Even if I run spirit guides, the meta has shifted here, to more twin and jund, which makes the guides worse, and I will try sleight or ancient stirrings instead..
So do you just not play Sigarda out of the board at all?
good point. this was a testing gauntlet and the games were mostly pre-board. I don't have sigarda in there (not everyone uses it) but i really like the card, so it'll be the first change i make going forward.
Over at channelfireball one of their pros did a deck tech and match series with Sam Black's latest amulet bloom list. Was on October 13th.
Most notable for me was the double vesuva. Watching the guy's plays closely it was clear that having the extra vesuva just gives you so many options. I was convinced and immediately traded for a second one.
Also interesting inclusion was the temple of mystery. There are already proponents in this thread and I'm also sold on the idea. Got out my foil.
Finally was the inclusion of a single forest in the sideboard. Seemed to be relevant in quite a few situations and I'm not completely opposed to the idea even if it's a bit unusual.
Other more predictable inclusions:
Engineered explosives in the side (I've been experimenting with it in the main but i may move it over).
1x simian spirit guide in the main. Seemed bad when he drew it. Still don't understand why it's there. If you don't draw it in your opener it's just awful, and you'll rarely draw it in your opener because you've only got one. 85% of the time it's going to be a horrible dead-draw in the mid game. I'd love to hear Sam black explain his reasoning on that one because it baffles me.
1x sleight of hand. I like this card more and more all the time. I'm wondering if it could replace some number of ancient stirrings but then stirrings is pretty critical a lot of the time, allowing you to fetch titans as well as amulets because of the tolaria west chain.
Overall I liked his series. I saw some plays where I thought I could have done it better. I feel like I'm getting to grips with the nuance now which is a nice feeling.
Re vesuva; I'll be testing two for the time being. I've only seen it give more versatility, and cases of screwing your opener are rarer than the positives it gives. If it doesn't work out I'll drop it straight away. Lord knows my EDH deck could use a vesuva :).
I mean sure. Against removal heavy decks they only need four removal spells before we're effectively out of the game (assuming they have some pressure). Having some recursion could be extremely powerful. Test it and get back to us?
(also seriously on the removal thing. Do we just have to get lucky to beat jund?)
Sigarda is a waste of sideboard space, only reason Cohen ran so much creatures in his board was because junk was 30%!!!! of the pro tour meta.
I run 3 ancient stirring and 3 sleight of hands.
also stirrings can find a threat, it can find tolaria wests.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
I disagree. Sigarda single handedly wins a few matchups and is good in others. It's a resilient threat for removal heavy matchups and jund cant deal with it. You can win games with just a leyline and a sigarda, dont nedd anything else.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
I mean chances are you're going titan before sigarda so a slayer stronghold sigarda is out racing a 5/6 goyf (though I find it rare that they get past 4/5)
However if you're looking for a creature who just flat out wins when resolved against BGx and you dislike Sigarda you might be interested in another Justin Cohen throwback and just play Hornet Queen. I have legitimately never lost to BGx after resolving a hornet queen.
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=93324 (not sure how to use the deck function yet)
Proposed Changes:
Things I liked:
This works in game one if you have a backup Titan available, in game 2 they can bring in spot graveyard removal and your titan will get exiled before they fire off a Living End. The worst thing in Living End are the Fulminator Mages...
Been running Sigarda on my sideboard and she is a beast! I run Dragonlord Dromoka on my main as one off mainly because Burn/Jeskai Burn heavy meta on my region. I have been tempted to switch my Ancient Stirrings for Sleight of Hands for a while now. While Stirrings searchers deeper and can hit amulet/tolaria west/bounceland, being able to pick up other threats straight away seems good.
one path to exile and it leaves behind no value at all. it's decent for burn I guess but they also play paths post board, and unless your at 1 life you will rarely lose to burn after playing a titan, of course it has happened to me but yeah, i think dromoka is terribad. dies easily while leaving behind 0 value
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.