Broken Bond is a sorcery speed Naturalize with MAYBE Exploration stapled to it. Does not seem appealing considering the upside can whiff completely.
I get a similar "it's a trap!" feeling from Broken Bond, but on the other hand, Chalice is pushing us to run CMC2 answers, and Seal of Primordium is already kinda-sorcery-speed.
I honestly have no idea what are the odds of the upsisde working, but the idea of blowing up a Blood Moon while recovering the 2 mana spent on it by dropping another Tron land is very appealing.
Nature's Claim is much more relevant to Gx Tron than Broken Bond is; there's never a good reason to be running fewer than two Claims in your side. Now if Chalice becomes more of a headache, the old 2/2 split of Claim and Seal of Primordium becomes more relevant, so Broken Bond should be considered as a possible alternate to Seal.
Since I play Crucible of Worlds in my sideboard, and I don't have any copies of Emrakul TPE that care about the enchantment type that Seal is, I'd be open to consider Broken Bond as a pair if Chalice decks trend harder. I'm still skeptical though, because being able to crack Seal any time has been relevant multiple times for me in the past, and I think the Explore-type effect of BB is bait in early hands. Ramping to help against Damping Sphere might be enough to really make it stick, though. Definitely will playtest the pair to begin with once DOM is legal.
Karn 2.0 seems like a decent card for some other deck. I don't hate it just because we won't be playing it.
Damping Sphere isn't so strong that it pushes us out of viability completely, but don't underestimate how many decks will now be playing this, or how much damage both effects can do when they stick it early. It's the kind of card that every build will need to have a good game plan to beat, and will slightly warp deck construction around it (Thoughtseize, Ancient Grudge, and Oblivion Stone all become a little more attractive, at least). The really scary stuff will happen when Sphere comes down within a turn of another powerful hate card, like Stony Silence or Fulminator Mage.
Damping Sphere isn't so strong that it pushes us out of viability completely, but don't underestimate how many decks will now be playing this, or how much damage both effects can do when they stick it early. It's the kind of card that every build will need to have a good game plan to beat, and will slightly warp deck construction around it (Thoughtseize, Ancient Grudge, and Oblivion Stone all become a little more attractive, at least). The really scary stuff will happen when Sphere comes down within a turn of another powerful hate card, like Stony Silence or Fulminator Mage.
Stony Silence will still be around because of Affinity, but I expect the usage of other hate cards against us to drop significantly. SB space is very tight in modern, and Damping Sphere being useful in bunch of different matchups will makes it very appealing.
Yeah, BBE definitely stepped Jund's game up against Gx Tron. We still beat it overall, though. A singleton Crucible of Worlds has been wonderful out of the sideboard for me against them.
Speaking of Crucible, I was able to use it to reuse Sanctum of Ugin three times in the same game...and that's after having my Power Plants get taken out by Surgical Extraction. It got so bad, they used a second top-decked Surgical to exile the Sanctum. Since Ponza and Fulminator usage seems to have picked up, I would recommend you try Crucible as a sideboard card if you can.
Along similar lines, I had several games where I flooded out, despite multiple mulligans during those games. I am going to test a single copy of Horizon Canopy instead of the fifth Forest. We already beat UW Control (however hard they try to disrupt our mana base, they just can't clock us fast enough), and four basic Forests is still a very good number against other decks with Path, Field of Ruin, and Blood Moon. The upside of Canopy seems too good to pass up as a singleton, and it can get really gross with that Crucible in grindy matches.
I've always preferred Life from the Loam to Crucible of Worlds, particularly against Jund. None of their answers to Crucible of Worlds (removal and discard) will work on Life from the Loam. Sure, graveyard hate like Scavenging Ooze can thwart Life from the Loam, but that'll thwart Crucible of Worlds as well.
-Ancient Stirrings will hit Crucible, which is nice when playing it as a singleton out of the board
-Crucible ties up less mana
You're right that Jund typically packs more answers for Crucible than Loam, but in practice, I've had really good luck with Crucible against them. Granted, I haven't played Loam out of my board in at least two years, but I do remember a few of my own issues with it that I mentioned above. The 1G of Loam would have restricted me last night, for example, because the repeated Sanctum pops into more threats would not have curved properly (since my Power Plants had all been exiled).
I'm not saying Loam isn't worth considering; it's an attractive alternative to Crucible, especially for people on a budget. As you demonstrated above, some people do prefer it regardless due to its resiliency, so go with whichever works for you.
Well I don't know how many of you are planning on playing this deck at GP Phoenix, but after watching how the SCG Dallas event finished out, we will definitely have an uphill fight. Ponza, Infect, and Gifts Storm all represented and placed well there, so I expect the copycat effect to have players jamming these decks in greater numbers. Cards like Collective Brutality, Thoughtseize, and Warping Wail are suddenly looking more attractive since they have game against all of those decks.
Ponza, Infect, and Gifts Storm all represented and placed well there
I believe this weekend's result is still part of a shifting meta.
People were expecting a ton of Jund+BBE and Control+Jace, which caused GDS to be under represented this weekend, and IIRC it's one of the biggest predators of Infect and Storm. I expect more people to go back to it in the following tournaments.
Ponza, Infect, and Gifts Storm all represented and placed well there
I believe this weekend's result is still part of a shifting meta.
People were expecting a ton of Jund+BBE and Control+Jace, which caused GDS to be under represented this weekend, and IIRC it's one of the biggest predators of Infect and Storm. I expect more people to go back to it in the following tournaments.
Yeah, and one-mana creatures and interaction from GDS throws Ponza a real curveball as well; good point. Thing is, at least in the early rounds, many people will flock to what they just saw work, and those decks all give green-based Tron decks fits.
I don't have any byes earned either, so man do I hope I can play well during the Friday night grinders so I can potentially dodge some of those decks. Anyone else plan on playing those?
Also, no one ever responded to my question on the previous page regarding how many people have actually used the second ability (damage reduction) of Orbs of Warding to save them in rounds. I'm leaning toward a pair of Witchbane Orbs instead so that I can cast them a turn earlier with Tron offline. That line also allows me to hold up untapped mana to Claim it after dropping a Chromatic Sphere/Star the same turn if I do land turn three Tron; this is something you cannot do with Orbs of Warding, as the six mana required to drop the two artifacts would cause you to float (and lose) the last mana you'd need.
For GB, using three mana to drop Chromatic and crack it to cast Collective Brutality, then ripping any potential singleton artifact destruction from their hand before dropping Witchbane Orb sounds like it's probably worth passing over the damage reduction ability of Orbs of Warding for.
All of this comes about because I want to try out cards opponents must find an answer to, and I'm not sure I want four Leyline of Sanctuary tying up that many of my sideboard slots. Thought-Knot Seer is probably the better card against Burn and Zoo, but lately I've been finding I'd rather just have something to shut opponents down.
Yeah, and one-mana creatures and interaction from GDS throws Ponza a real curveball as well; good point. Thing is, at least in the early rounds, many people will flock to what they just saw work, and those decks all give green-based Tron decks fits.
Seems reasonable. It's hard to predict these meta shifts, but if I were going to a tournament next weekend I'd be preparing for an uptick in Ponza/Infect/Storm, plus whatever decks are good against these.
GDS is one, which others should be considered? Maybe Burn?
Yeah, and one-mana creatures and interaction from GDS throws Ponza a real curveball as well; good point. Thing is, at least in the early rounds, many people will flock to what they just saw work, and those decks all give green-based Tron decks fits.
Seems reasonable. It's hard to predict these meta shifts, but if I were going to a tournament next weekend I'd be preparing for an uptick in Ponza/Infect/Storm, plus whatever decks are good against these.
GDS is one, which others should be considered? Maybe Burn?
Jund, RB and RG Hollow One, and Humans are decks you need to have game plans for. We still beat Jund, but BBE definitely made it better for them, so make sure to playtest to feel your lines out. Humans is a swarm deck; don't be afraid to use early copies of Ballista to spot remove cards like Thalia (just be wary of untapped Vials with two counters). Hollow One is a race to stabilize with a Wurmcoil.
I do hope GDS makes a comeback, but with the presence of Jund expected to be high, I don't expect to see a breakout number of GDS players.
I played last night and went 2-1 (2-1 against UB Mill, 2-0 against Ninja Bear Delver, and 0-2 against Pyro Prison). Walking Ballista is a great win-con against decks packing Ensnaring Bridge if you've had your O-Stones extracted, and Warping Wail with Witchbane Orb were great against most of what Mill was trying to do. NBD was fun (great guy), but not really competitive against us at all.
Pyro Prison had turn one Rabblemaster...twice. We ended up playing a lot of games for practice, and I did end up winning plenty after our set; they pretty much need the immediate threat with disruptive backup to win. Gx Tron is favored, but be ready to take out early Rabblemasters or be prepared to lose before you can stabilize.
Between Pyro Prison, Turns, and especially Eldrazi Stompy, more people are figuring out that Gemstone Caverns can really do good work when you want to race opponents, so be ready for this as well. Fortunately, none of those decks are really popular, but it's still something to be mindful of.
If there's any advice I could give as a Gx Tron player, it's to mulligan properly (which, for us, usually means aggressively). PVDDR wrote up a great article on CFB about this today; I definitely recommend it.
EDIT: Has anyone had the chance to playtest Broken Bond yet?
Broken bond seems good in an opener against a fast deck like Affinity where you get to cast it on curve.
There are also some potentially neat tricks where you can cycle a bunch of eggs and hit an extra land. Worth it? Debatable. Could be ramp in the right situation but you'd have to work for it.
Otherwise it's going to be worse than other options.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Broken bond seems good in an opener against a fast deck like Affinity where you get to cast it on curve.
There are also some potentially neat tricks where you can cycle a bunch of eggs and hit an extra land. Worth it? Debatable. Could be ramp in the right situation but you'd have to work for it.
Otherwise it's going to be worse than other options.
So you're speculating, and haven't had the chance (or inclination) to playtest it yet? The question wasn't about anyone's untested opinion; we already have plenty of those here.
Broken bond seems good in an opener against a fast deck like Affinity where you get to cast it on curve.
There are also some potentially neat tricks where you can cycle a bunch of eggs and hit an extra land. Worth it? Debatable. Could be ramp in the right situation but you'd have to work for it.
Otherwise it's going to be worse than other options.
So you're speculating, and haven't had the chance (or inclination) to playtest it yet? The question wasn't about anyone's untested opinion; we already have plenty of those here.
Yeesh. Down boy.
Depends on how you define playtesting anyway. If I've been analysing game-states and pros/cons of broken bond vs other options (nature's claim) every time I draw nature's claim in a sideboarded game, and opening it up to peers for discussion (I. E. What would broken bond do here, how does it affect mulligans and matchups, how is it better or worse in this situation than the alternative) is that playtesting?
I'd say it is. Would you agree? So no i haven't physically proxied up the cards but I've been bearing in mind the potential inclusion and working through play scenarios when they happen.
You assumed because I haven't reached a firm conclusion on the card's value that I wasn't playtesting. Unfair assumption; and we already have plenty of those around here ;P
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I was thinking of trying out a 4th wurmcoil engine. Might steal a game against burn/zoo, and with so much fulminator running around you might get to hardcast it with tron offline.
I was thinking of trying out a 4th wurmcoil engine. Might steal a game against burn/zoo, and with so much fulminator running around you might get to hardcast it with tron offline.
Do you mean for your own local meta, or are you planning on making this change for the GP? I agree with your reasoning, but a fourth Wurmcoil means a cut to something else, so what would you cut to make the room for it?
Against jund i've been taking out 2 ulamog and 1 world breaker and bringing in 3 thragtusk. Should I also bring in additional copies of relic of progenitus? does dismember get cut and what should I target with it? do i try to save them for tarmogoyfs? i usually just blast whatever gets dropped first unless its a scavenging ooze. i'm wondering if dark confidant clocks us too slowly that it can be ignored. also seems like people board in crucible here
I will say this about GBx: always respect Dark Confidant. Unless something is threatening to take you out in a turn or two, you should kill it ASAP.
I do as you have mentioned and side out the three big Eldrazi for the three Thragtusks. The rest of what I do is to bring out some number of Walking Ballista and Dismember for Crucible and the Relics. I typically prioritize the Dismembers over the Ballistas, but my mood and their build dictates a lot of what I do, and whether or not I'm on the play (favoring the Ballistas and Dismembers) or the draw (favoring the Relics and Crucible).
My hot take is to only have three pieces of graveyard hate (all Relics), and to only have them in the board. That, and I've currently removed TKS from the deck entirely for a pair of Witchbane Orb and more copies of Warping Wail. Right now, I don't feel like TKS lines up well against the decks I expect to face (it's often too late against Blood Moon decks, and it doesn't combat well right now).
Wail is just a catch-all jank buster; the ability to be spot removal, ramp, and a counter to a growing number of sorceries (land destruction, turns effects, most suspend spells, ramp spells) seems really good right now. Witchbane is castable on turn four even without Tron, and since it almost always comes in along with Nature's Claim, having the ability to hold up mana after dropping a Chromatic Sphere/Star and the Orb allows more resiliency if they do have the artifact hate ready.
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I get a similar "it's a trap!" feeling from Broken Bond, but on the other hand, Chalice is pushing us to run CMC2 answers, and Seal of Primordium is already kinda-sorcery-speed.
I honestly have no idea what are the odds of the upsisde working, but the idea of blowing up a Blood Moon while recovering the 2 mana spent on it by dropping another Tron land is very appealing.
Since I play Crucible of Worlds in my sideboard, and I don't have any copies of Emrakul TPE that care about the enchantment type that Seal is, I'd be open to consider Broken Bond as a pair if Chalice decks trend harder. I'm still skeptical though, because being able to crack Seal any time has been relevant multiple times for me in the past, and I think the Explore-type effect of BB is bait in early hands. Ramping to help against Damping Sphere might be enough to really make it stick, though. Definitely will playtest the pair to begin with once DOM is legal.
Karn 2.0 seems like a decent card for some other deck. I don't hate it just because we won't be playing it.
Damping Sphere isn't so strong that it pushes us out of viability completely, but don't underestimate how many decks will now be playing this, or how much damage both effects can do when they stick it early. It's the kind of card that every build will need to have a good game plan to beat, and will slightly warp deck construction around it (Thoughtseize, Ancient Grudge, and Oblivion Stone all become a little more attractive, at least). The really scary stuff will happen when Sphere comes down within a turn of another powerful hate card, like Stony Silence or Fulminator Mage.
Stony Silence will still be around because of Affinity, but I expect the usage of other hate cards against us to drop significantly. SB space is very tight in modern, and Damping Sphere being useful in bunch of different matchups will makes it very appealing.
I’m looking for a decent sideboard guide for the deck but haven’t found an updated one
Speaking of Crucible, I was able to use it to reuse Sanctum of Ugin three times in the same game...and that's after having my Power Plants get taken out by Surgical Extraction. It got so bad, they used a second top-decked Surgical to exile the Sanctum. Since Ponza and Fulminator usage seems to have picked up, I would recommend you try Crucible as a sideboard card if you can.
Along similar lines, I had several games where I flooded out, despite multiple mulligans during those games. I am going to test a single copy of Horizon Canopy instead of the fifth Forest. We already beat UW Control (however hard they try to disrupt our mana base, they just can't clock us fast enough), and four basic Forests is still a very good number against other decks with Path, Field of Ruin, and Blood Moon. The upside of Canopy seems too good to pass up as a singleton, and it can get really gross with that Crucible in grindy matches.
-Ancient Stirrings will hit Crucible, which is nice when playing it as a singleton out of the board
-Crucible ties up less mana
You're right that Jund typically packs more answers for Crucible than Loam, but in practice, I've had really good luck with Crucible against them. Granted, I haven't played Loam out of my board in at least two years, but I do remember a few of my own issues with it that I mentioned above. The 1G of Loam would have restricted me last night, for example, because the repeated Sanctum pops into more threats would not have curved properly (since my Power Plants had all been exiled).
I'm not saying Loam isn't worth considering; it's an attractive alternative to Crucible, especially for people on a budget. As you demonstrated above, some people do prefer it regardless due to its resiliency, so go with whichever works for you.
I believe this weekend's result is still part of a shifting meta.
People were expecting a ton of Jund+BBE and Control+Jace, which caused GDS to be under represented this weekend, and IIRC it's one of the biggest predators of Infect and Storm. I expect more people to go back to it in the following tournaments.
Yeah, and one-mana creatures and interaction from GDS throws Ponza a real curveball as well; good point. Thing is, at least in the early rounds, many people will flock to what they just saw work, and those decks all give green-based Tron decks fits.
I don't have any byes earned either, so man do I hope I can play well during the Friday night grinders so I can potentially dodge some of those decks. Anyone else plan on playing those?
Also, no one ever responded to my question on the previous page regarding how many people have actually used the second ability (damage reduction) of Orbs of Warding to save them in rounds. I'm leaning toward a pair of Witchbane Orbs instead so that I can cast them a turn earlier with Tron offline. That line also allows me to hold up untapped mana to Claim it after dropping a Chromatic Sphere/Star the same turn if I do land turn three Tron; this is something you cannot do with Orbs of Warding, as the six mana required to drop the two artifacts would cause you to float (and lose) the last mana you'd need.
For GB, using three mana to drop Chromatic and crack it to cast Collective Brutality, then ripping any potential singleton artifact destruction from their hand before dropping Witchbane Orb sounds like it's probably worth passing over the damage reduction ability of Orbs of Warding for.
All of this comes about because I want to try out cards opponents must find an answer to, and I'm not sure I want four Leyline of Sanctuary tying up that many of my sideboard slots. Thought-Knot Seer is probably the better card against Burn and Zoo, but lately I've been finding I'd rather just have something to shut opponents down.
Seems reasonable. It's hard to predict these meta shifts, but if I were going to a tournament next weekend I'd be preparing for an uptick in Ponza/Infect/Storm, plus whatever decks are good against these.
GDS is one, which others should be considered? Maybe Burn?
Jund, RB and RG Hollow One, and Humans are decks you need to have game plans for. We still beat Jund, but BBE definitely made it better for them, so make sure to playtest to feel your lines out. Humans is a swarm deck; don't be afraid to use early copies of Ballista to spot remove cards like Thalia (just be wary of untapped Vials with two counters). Hollow One is a race to stabilize with a Wurmcoil.
I do hope GDS makes a comeback, but with the presence of Jund expected to be high, I don't expect to see a breakout number of GDS players.
I played last night and went 2-1 (2-1 against UB Mill, 2-0 against Ninja Bear Delver, and 0-2 against Pyro Prison). Walking Ballista is a great win-con against decks packing Ensnaring Bridge if you've had your O-Stones extracted, and Warping Wail with Witchbane Orb were great against most of what Mill was trying to do. NBD was fun (great guy), but not really competitive against us at all.
Pyro Prison had turn one Rabblemaster...twice. We ended up playing a lot of games for practice, and I did end up winning plenty after our set; they pretty much need the immediate threat with disruptive backup to win. Gx Tron is favored, but be ready to take out early Rabblemasters or be prepared to lose before you can stabilize.
Between Pyro Prison, Turns, and especially Eldrazi Stompy, more people are figuring out that Gemstone Caverns can really do good work when you want to race opponents, so be ready for this as well. Fortunately, none of those decks are really popular, but it's still something to be mindful of.
If there's any advice I could give as a Gx Tron player, it's to mulligan properly (which, for us, usually means aggressively). PVDDR wrote up a great article on CFB about this today; I definitely recommend it.
EDIT: Has anyone had the chance to playtest Broken Bond yet?
There are also some potentially neat tricks where you can cycle a bunch of eggs and hit an extra land. Worth it? Debatable. Could be ramp in the right situation but you'd have to work for it.
Otherwise it's going to be worse than other options.
So you're speculating, and haven't had the chance (or inclination) to playtest it yet? The question wasn't about anyone's untested opinion; we already have plenty of those here.
Yeesh. Down boy.
Depends on how you define playtesting anyway. If I've been analysing game-states and pros/cons of broken bond vs other options (nature's claim) every time I draw nature's claim in a sideboarded game, and opening it up to peers for discussion (I. E. What would broken bond do here, how does it affect mulligans and matchups, how is it better or worse in this situation than the alternative) is that playtesting?
I'd say it is. Would you agree? So no i haven't physically proxied up the cards but I've been bearing in mind the potential inclusion and working through play scenarios when they happen.
You assumed because I haven't reached a firm conclusion on the card's value that I wasn't playtesting. Unfair assumption; and we already have plenty of those around here ;P
Do you mean for your own local meta, or are you planning on making this change for the GP? I agree with your reasoning, but a fourth Wurmcoil means a cut to something else, so what would you cut to make the room for it?
I do as you have mentioned and side out the three big Eldrazi for the three Thragtusks. The rest of what I do is to bring out some number of Walking Ballista and Dismember for Crucible and the Relics. I typically prioritize the Dismembers over the Ballistas, but my mood and their build dictates a lot of what I do, and whether or not I'm on the play (favoring the Ballistas and Dismembers) or the draw (favoring the Relics and Crucible).
My hot take is to only have three pieces of graveyard hate (all Relics), and to only have them in the board. That, and I've currently removed TKS from the deck entirely for a pair of Witchbane Orb and more copies of Warping Wail. Right now, I don't feel like TKS lines up well against the decks I expect to face (it's often too late against Blood Moon decks, and it doesn't combat well right now).
Wail is just a catch-all jank buster; the ability to be spot removal, ramp, and a counter to a growing number of sorceries (land destruction, turns effects, most suspend spells, ramp spells) seems really good right now. Witchbane is castable on turn four even without Tron, and since it almost always comes in along with Nature's Claim, having the ability to hold up mana after dropping a Chromatic Sphere/Star and the Orb allows more resiliency if they do have the artifact hate ready.