Hoo boy, talk about some bad beats. I 0-3 dropped last night to back to back to back Thoughtsieze decks (GDS, Lantern, Jund). Every single match was lost 0-2, and if I remember correctly, every single game of every match had a turn 1 Thoughtsieze/IoK. This turned my multiple Turn 3/4 kill hands into non-functional piles. Combined with only resurrecting 2 birds across six games and my 1 or 2 other threats per game all dying, it was a pretty rough night. Anyone who says this deck is busted or broken hasn't yet had a night like this! It's enough to make me sleeve up GDS for next FNM. lol.
I'll also say, this is exactly what I ran into as well once people decided to stop losing to Phoenix.
Hi everyone, I'm new to mtg salvation, my name is nick
I'm getting the last pieces I need to play izzet Phoenix with the latest meriam's build.
What do you think of noxious revival? Does it deserve one/two spot (instead of chart a course and/or izzet charm)?
Just picking up this deck and thinking about the Amulet Titan match up. Which 2 lands would you name with Alpine Moon and which one first? Thanks for the ideas!
Was wondering if anyone has played Steamkin in the place of anything and what their opinions were? I imagine a mono red phoenix forum would be the better place to ask but I didn't see that listed under established lists so I'm guessing they are one and the same here?
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I have played with Steam Kin in mono red and it is absolutely bonkers with Bedlam Reveler. I took a week off from playing the deck, but went 4-0 and 3-1 the previous two weeks. My one loss saw me churn through more than half the deck without really seeing anything in game three.
I am torn because I love the speed and explosiveness of mono red, but the consistency of Izzet is very tempting. Has anyone played both and willing to share thoughts?
Yep I played both. Runaway does have explosiveness, but you fall victim to anti-red hate far harder of course, while UR can play for an explosive build if they include Kiln Fiend. Runaway in a low removal meta is an absolutely unstoppable engine, so its really down to what you are looking for.
Meta dictates which build is best, or if any build is best. Like with my local meta filled with Thoughtseizes, I'm personally going to shelve the birds entirely until I see another shift back. I guess that's what we get for +/- 5 of us being on various Phoenix decks.
So I am getting ready to put this together. Ive been on UR storm for the last few months but the meta has shifted in a way that storm is now T2 with the volume of GY hate and resurgence of mid range post assassins trophy. I am heading to an SCG open in 2 weeks and changing decks that close doesnt excite me, but the change from UR gifts to UR Phoenix seems like a nice sidestep of playing a similar shell to what im used to but getting back into T1.
With that in mind I figured I would solicite some advice about things ive seen or wondered about. Here are some cards i was hoping for some insight on how they work in this archetype
Remand- ive seen a couple lists running this and it intrigues me. I love the versatility of it but does it take the deck too far from aggro to mid? Where the deck run 3-5 counter in the SB, maybe its a viable 3 of MD freeing up some SB space.
Stony silence- I've seen a few lists running UWR for stony in the board. I hate to dive into 3 colors as it tends to be a lot of pain and if I was to go 3C grixis seems to have better synergy but stony just beats some T1 decks when it hits.
Snapcaster mage- seems self explanatory. Blue Moon always seems turn this card into a beast and this shell does have some similarities. Could this be interchangeable with swiftspear depending on your meta? It certainly seems to help the deck against its bad matches and 70% of the deck can be accessible off the trigger
Pieces of the puzzle- strictly a SB move. But just like UR gifts, Decks packing thoughtseize and iok are brutal. This card for mid game to net us some advantage and possibly bin some birds seems like a play that could be reasonable
Lastly, not to get too crazy but as i mentioned, a grixis splash for cards like gurmag angler has some appeal. Is that just a bonkers notion or is there some value to it.
Thanks in advance, I cant wait to take this deck for a spin
Lastly, not to get too crazy but as i mentioned, a grixis splash for cards like gurmag angler has some appeal. Is that just a bonkers notion or is there some value to it.
I've actually toyed with a Grixis build for a while. I feel like there could be something there, but I'm frankly terrible at deckbuilding from scratch. I usually have to take an existing deck and tweak it.
But some amalgamation between GDS and UR Phenoex may exist... Something with discard spells, Thought Scours, Collective Brutality, Faithless Looting, Manamorphose, Tasi/fish, Liliana, Bolts, and cantrips.
But I feel like it's slower than both GDS and Phoenix individually while not necessarily being more powerful. It would be just another mediocre Grixis midrange deck that lacks the fast/free wins of these two. Closest kind of deck would be like Mardu Pyromancer, but it would lack the Lingering Souls blockers to buy time and the back-breaking white sideboard cards. Dunno. Seems like UR is the best place to be *IF* your meta isn't filled with discard. It has the best combination of consistency and speed.
I do like the potential of thoughtseize-ing away an arclight phoenix lol
I really want to build a three color version at some point but at the moment im running mono red and occasionally UR
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I still think a turn 2 play of Collective Brutality, pitching Phoenix, could be a potent one, but I sold out of most of my Black quite a while ago and am unwilling to invest in testing it.
Its also tough to say that would be better than Turn 2 Thing or Fiend, leading to potential for Turn 3/4 kills.
Ultimately.
Do you need to be fast? UR with Fiend, or Mono R.
Do you need to grind? Probably UR, with Drakes.
Do you need to be able to wall off aggro/humans/spirits? UR, with Thing.
Do you need to interact? Splash Black.
Totally agree with that!
I feel like the deck is pretty solid now.. Ross Merriam's changes keep getting better and better
But I am not sold on the sideboard yet.. I feel like it could be better
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Yeah I don't have premium either; but I have been going off of his Baltimore list which seemed pretty solid
I imagine he will be in Columbus this weekend so we will have an update hopefully!
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So all the ideas I mentioned yesterday felt like trash when gold fishing them last night so im not even going to put more effort into those notions. But in my testing and brewing I did come up with some ideas im going to test. Currently I'm not wild about the feeling of the deck. I mean the results speak for themselves, the current itterations of izzet or mono red Phoenix are good decks. The mono R version feels nice because it just brings heat, flat out. The izzet version is clearly more versatile but with all that cantrip, sometimes it just feels like a lot of durdling. It did give me some ideas for a brew I'm going to run thats more of a mashup of storm and izzet spells. Here's what im going to jamb tonight at my local LGS
4 thing in the ice
3 crackling drake
4 bedlam reveler
i dunno ive just never like bedlam reveler much, so i cant really get behind running a full set. even in the mono-R versions id still probably be on 2-3, and that is with more discard outlets with tormenting voice.
id be interested to hear how the empty the warrens plan works out. when i was first puttering around with the deck i thought itd be cool, but i didnt/dont have the brewing capacity to try it out.
as for moving off of arclight entirely...well that kinda defeats the purpose lol
personally id recommend giving the stock-ish UR build another try. the deck does have a lot of 'do nothing' cards, until they suddenly become 'do something that threatens to win the game'. so the spinning of wheels can be deceiving because you arent building up to any one thing, but just whatever happens first: bring back phoenix(s), flip thing, or a huge drake. swiftspear ive found to be a roleplayer that ties the room together as that added bit of pressure either in the big turn or just chipping to get the opponent lower.
side note: i wouldnt recommend blood moon without a fetch mana base. even in regular ur phoenix running 5-6 fetches blood moon is a dubious proposition because the deck is so color hungry.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Well the deck actually played surprisingly well. Went 3-1 with it and it did pretty much what i expected. In the end i trimmed to 3 bedlam revelers and bumped back up to 18 lands.
G1 vs Tron 2-0: Game 1 went bananas and dropped an empty for 14 goblins T2, G2 boarded out revelers and boarded in swiftspear. T1 dropped a SS, T2 a 2nd SS and a cantrip. T3 cantrip chained and swing lethal.
G2 vs GDS 2-1: G1 he had the answers. Had a fatal push for my T2 crackling drake, stubborn denial for my T3 thing in the ice, then i spun my wheels digging and dying.
G2 i boarded out the revelers and in the bloodmoon. Caught him with a T2 Moon and after a surgical on trash in my yard for some info he scooped. G3 he saw i wasnt on arclight so i knew he would board out his GY hate so the moons came back out and the revelers came back in, you arent gonna catch GDS with blood Moon twice so I didn't want the dead cards. Super grindy game, he had a lot of answers but in the end he died to a reveler.
G3 vs spirits 0-2: not too much to say, in typical spirits fashion he had lords quellers and Thalia a plenty and i got wrecked.
G4 vs mill 2-0: this was a surprising deck to see that late but it was basically an auto win. Crackling drake vs mill is a 1 shot and i had the gas to drop one T2 G1 and T3 G2
Not sure ill play this variation again, probably after SCG Worcester ill put some actual time into UR Phoenix. This brew was fun but was a lot of stuff where ill catch some one with their pants down for a week but after that, prob not
SO I just got to test the deck in paper yesterday and my opinions were the same VickVega..
I really like Bedlam Reveler though! I found that consistently after turn 3 dealing a lot of damage, you were left with dead cards or lands in hand. I tried 2 bedlam reveler and it seemed to resolve that issue as the following turn you could cast bedlam reveler - reset your hand - then draw into more bolts/manamorphose/etc..
I do like the idea of empty the warrens though! I feel like grapeshot could be even better though! Would be cool to see an ironed out list that blends storm and phoenix into one!
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I'll also say, this is exactly what I ran into as well once people decided to stop losing to Phoenix.
Spirits
I'm getting the last pieces I need to play izzet Phoenix with the latest meriam's build.
What do you think of noxious revival? Does it deserve one/two spot (instead of chart a course and/or izzet charm)?
Just picking up this deck and thinking about the Amulet Titan match up. Which 2 lands would you name with Alpine Moon and which one first? Thanks for the ideas!
I am torn because I love the speed and explosiveness of mono red, but the consistency of Izzet is very tempting. Has anyone played both and willing to share thoughts?
Personally, I prefer Cantrips.
Spirits
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
With that in mind I figured I would solicite some advice about things ive seen or wondered about. Here are some cards i was hoping for some insight on how they work in this archetype
Remand- ive seen a couple lists running this and it intrigues me. I love the versatility of it but does it take the deck too far from aggro to mid? Where the deck run 3-5 counter in the SB, maybe its a viable 3 of MD freeing up some SB space.
Stony silence- I've seen a few lists running UWR for stony in the board. I hate to dive into 3 colors as it tends to be a lot of pain and if I was to go 3C grixis seems to have better synergy but stony just beats some T1 decks when it hits.
Snapcaster mage- seems self explanatory. Blue Moon always seems turn this card into a beast and this shell does have some similarities. Could this be interchangeable with swiftspear depending on your meta? It certainly seems to help the deck against its bad matches and 70% of the deck can be accessible off the trigger
Pieces of the puzzle- strictly a SB move. But just like UR gifts, Decks packing thoughtseize and iok are brutal. This card for mid game to net us some advantage and possibly bin some birds seems like a play that could be reasonable
Lastly, not to get too crazy but as i mentioned, a grixis splash for cards like gurmag angler has some appeal. Is that just a bonkers notion or is there some value to it.
Thanks in advance, I cant wait to take this deck for a spin
I've actually toyed with a Grixis build for a while. I feel like there could be something there, but I'm frankly terrible at deckbuilding from scratch. I usually have to take an existing deck and tweak it.
But some amalgamation between GDS and UR Phenoex may exist... Something with discard spells, Thought Scours, Collective Brutality, Faithless Looting, Manamorphose, Tasi/fish, Liliana, Bolts, and cantrips.
But I feel like it's slower than both GDS and Phoenix individually while not necessarily being more powerful. It would be just another mediocre Grixis midrange deck that lacks the fast/free wins of these two. Closest kind of deck would be like Mardu Pyromancer, but it would lack the Lingering Souls blockers to buy time and the back-breaking white sideboard cards. Dunno. Seems like UR is the best place to be *IF* your meta isn't filled with discard. It has the best combination of consistency and speed.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I really want to build a three color version at some point but at the moment im running mono red and occasionally UR
Its also tough to say that would be better than Turn 2 Thing or Fiend, leading to potential for Turn 3/4 kills.
Ultimately.
Do you need to be fast? UR with Fiend, or Mono R.
Do you need to grind? Probably UR, with Drakes.
Do you need to be able to wall off aggro/humans/spirits? UR, with Thing.
Do you need to interact? Splash Black.
Spirits
I feel like the deck is pretty solid now.. Ross Merriam's changes keep getting better and better
But I am not sold on the sideboard yet.. I feel like it could be better
20182019) so I'm not sure where his list is at these days.Spirits
I imagine he will be in Columbus this weekend so we will have an update hopefully!
4 thing in the ice
3 crackling drake
4 bedlam reveler
4 pyretic ritual
4 desperate ritual
4 Manamorphos
4 Empty the wardens
4 thoughtscour
4 serum vision
4 opt
4 sleight of hand
4 steam vents
4 shivan reaf
4 spirebluff canal
4 island
1 mountain
SB
3 bloodmoon
3 monastery swiftspear
3 spell pierce
2 dispell
2 Abrade
2 anger of the gods
Maybe it'll be Jank AF maybe it'll be decent but it feels like it combines the most versatile parts of UR storm with the solid beats of Izzet spells.
id be interested to hear how the empty the warrens plan works out. when i was first puttering around with the deck i thought itd be cool, but i didnt/dont have the brewing capacity to try it out.
as for moving off of arclight entirely...well that kinda defeats the purpose lol
personally id recommend giving the stock-ish UR build another try. the deck does have a lot of 'do nothing' cards, until they suddenly become 'do something that threatens to win the game'. so the spinning of wheels can be deceiving because you arent building up to any one thing, but just whatever happens first: bring back phoenix(s), flip thing, or a huge drake. swiftspear ive found to be a roleplayer that ties the room together as that added bit of pressure either in the big turn or just chipping to get the opponent lower.
side note: i wouldnt recommend blood moon without a fetch mana base. even in regular ur phoenix running 5-6 fetches blood moon is a dubious proposition because the deck is so color hungry.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)G1 vs Tron 2-0: Game 1 went bananas and dropped an empty for 14 goblins T2, G2 boarded out revelers and boarded in swiftspear. T1 dropped a SS, T2 a 2nd SS and a cantrip. T3 cantrip chained and swing lethal.
G2 vs GDS 2-1: G1 he had the answers. Had a fatal push for my T2 crackling drake, stubborn denial for my T3 thing in the ice, then i spun my wheels digging and dying.
G2 i boarded out the revelers and in the bloodmoon. Caught him with a T2 Moon and after a surgical on trash in my yard for some info he scooped. G3 he saw i wasnt on arclight so i knew he would board out his GY hate so the moons came back out and the revelers came back in, you arent gonna catch GDS with blood Moon twice so I didn't want the dead cards. Super grindy game, he had a lot of answers but in the end he died to a reveler.
G3 vs spirits 0-2: not too much to say, in typical spirits fashion he had lords quellers and Thalia a plenty and i got wrecked.
G4 vs mill 2-0: this was a surprising deck to see that late but it was basically an auto win. Crackling drake vs mill is a 1 shot and i had the gas to drop one T2 G1 and T3 G2
Not sure ill play this variation again, probably after SCG Worcester ill put some actual time into UR Phoenix. This brew was fun but was a lot of stuff where ill catch some one with their pants down for a week but after that, prob not
I really like Bedlam Reveler though! I found that consistently after turn 3 dealing a lot of damage, you were left with dead cards or lands in hand. I tried 2 bedlam reveler and it seemed to resolve that issue as the following turn you could cast bedlam reveler - reset your hand - then draw into more bolts/manamorphose/etc..
I do like the idea of empty the warrens though! I feel like grapeshot could be even better though! Would be cool to see an ironed out list that blends storm and phoenix into one!
I dropped Reveler completely because of that alone, otherwise, yes its amazing.
Spirits