Sure, PWs allow us to attack from a different angle, I value them a lot for this reason.
It's also not just about the static ability, but the minus which deals with prisons drawing you a card. I think this and the static ability are worth giving it a chance.
I'm also on Esper so casting souls at flash speed sounds spicy.
Sure, PWs allow us to attack from a different angle, I value them a lot for this reason.
It's also not just about the static ability, but the minus which deals with prisons drawing you a card. I think this and the static ability are worth giving it a chance.
I'm also on Esper so casting souls at flash speed sounds spicy.
Speaking of which, I noticed that you ran Jace, the Mind Sculptor in your SB. I may or may not (no, really, idk yet) have split a mythic edition with a friend in which I will receive Jace, Gideon, Tezzeret, and Garruk, and I was wondering if it were worthwhile to put him somewhere in my 75. You've been testing a number of different planeswalkers in your Esper builds, so I was wondering how they stack up against JTMS.
TMS has been the first PW I tested last summer and it's been so good at doing the stuff I needed him to do that I consider it an auto include in every UW or Esper version. Loved Chandra Torch in Jeskai btw, but Jace is still superior.
I think the posts where I had explained the card have gone lost with that mess this site has been through like two months ago, but in short: there are slow enough matchups where you are at the mercy of the top deck and you not just want something to draw, but to draw selectively, so unless you are on bant for Company, you want a tool to pick up cards and decide what to keep. Jace does that, and being a PW it will be harder for the opponent to deal with it, especially when they don't see that coming. I want him against control and prisons. Whatever ensnaring bridge deck plays with no cards in hand so you just have to tick up for 5 turns before the opponent gets doomed. Control is forced to find D Sphere or move with colonnade to attacking, it puts them in a very awkward spot. Resolving Jace is the best play you can have and your plan should be focusse on that once you have it in your hand. Some told me you can't resolve TMS against a counterspell deck, I say by experience there's plenty of spots to do that if you re smart enough to sequence your cards. Drawing the best two cards off the top 4 on your deck pulls you so much ahead. It also deals with the 5/5 angels which is very important when you have a few PtE post side.
It feels great to have such a great card for the control MU but also for a variety of decks like mono red prison, enchantments, mill, 8 rack,Rock (you get full grind mode after sideboard), martyrs, controls, teachings, whirl... you get the brainstorm for longer games(liked it against vizier combo too where I'm the controller and I need to draw answers to fight his topdecks later in the game, plus it beats worship) and an alternative wincon that bypasses the attack step.
I'm telling you Teferi, Time Raveler is absurd in our deck, tested it in my Esper side today and I'm moving to 2x copies main board because it's insane at breaking the simmetry and setting you ahead on tempo. It also (finally!) gives me the type of tool I wanted to deal with pre side ensnaring bridge and prisons. The interaction with spell queller turn it into a 2 for 1, it's going to steal so many games in the next month or two just because people ain't used to that static ability. Jesus, it also has solved me the terminus problem, have fun casting it on turn 6, also goodbye settle the wreckage... the control matchup is hugely in our favor once teferi hits the floor, but it has proven really impactful against BG Rock aswell. How about gurmag Angler? And Temur Battlerage after blocks? I think UW and Esper Spirits are taking a huge boost because of this PW, every word on that card is relevant for us, like flashing souls is the new spice... but that bounce ability!
2x mainboard, must have.
Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
Something about my sideboard choices: my meta is filled with controls and midrange. I still like being set up against the mtgo goldfish metagame, so I'm not ignoring graveyard strategies just because there're a couple of dredge and phoenix players out of the whole group of players I see at LGSs, for example, but cards like Blossom are specifically to deal with shadow, GB and UW control which we have abundance of, while Fav Winds is necessary for bolt decks and the mirror matchup.
Things might change depending on the impact TTR will have against the field, but I can see how these colours should aim at playing a tempo game in G1 switching to a slower and grindier plan post side when people brings in creature hate so the tempo plan is likely to be less effective. In order to do so you want Planeswalkers and tokens to overwhelm the opponent with their value, while disrupting them with the abilities of the creatures that make up the core of our deck.
Oooooo this is really nice. Gonna try building this when I have a chance. Thanks boss!
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Current Modern Decks BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends." BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved." RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros." BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?" C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
4x Thalia? I play 3x Thalia and 2x Remorseful Clerics cause I have Dredge in my LGS.
Dont you think that 4x Thalia is a bit tooo much in a tribal deck??
And why 3 PTE? Id rather play 4x Drogskol Captain instead of fourth Thalia. The rest of the deck is the same as yours
How did TTR perform for you?
I gave him a shot as a two off as well in the last 5 round modern event.
My deck runs 2 Collective brutalities and 3 Lingering Souls and it was just bonkers to play them instant speed
Got 3-2 overall, winnining against GDS, Amulett Titan, Blue Tron and losing to Martyr Proc with all the new Tech (Sorin, Blast Zone) and a janky Madcap Platinum Angel taking turns build (The guy ran absolutely hot and never didnt having it 5-0 and told me he cant believe it ^^)
TTR has been very solid vs control, mid-range,and prison I think if he ends up sticking around (still not sold completely) I think we could sculpt the board to abuse his +1 also in azorius. 4 thalia is great. Most decks usually answer the first making having the second to follow up crucial. I have two flex slots that are usually some combo of 4th thalia/1-2 remorseful/image/copter. Depends what I expect. My lgs has half the scg leaderboard as regulars.
This combo seems terrible imo. Kirin is awful on its own because it blows up your other creatures when you cast spirits through an outlet other than Aether Vial, and Ugin's Conjurant is just an Endless One that withers itself. We don't have a reliable spirit tutor, either, to compensate for running two individually bad cards. Not to mention, it's "just" an Armageddon, so it doesn't actually win the game all the time. It's a serious problem for control and tron if it stumbled on assembly, but it doesn't help against an established board state. Using Kirin at higher CMCs requires a serious mana investment or an awkward vial at 4, in addition to the aforementioned risk to your own spirits.
As for the article, something tells me that SCG is trying to take advantage of Kirin's sudden price spike.
It would be nice to think JT isn't pimping, but who knows.
I posted this because I think it is a novel interaction that has possible applications. Previously I would not have considered Kirin, but it is oddly effective against very land-dependent decks and provides the possibility of multiple one-sided board-wipes in combination with Selfless Spirit. In fact, I think his build is not good because you want 3 of them.
It could just be bad, for the reasons you point out, but I am going to test it (with proxies for now!)
I don't like the idea in the Mono-W Eldrazi and Staxes deck because he took out Reality Smasher to do it, which is kind of crazy.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I see Kirin in a Tallowisp-Geist of saint traft-Deck, where the lower end of casting Ugin's Conjurant is tutoring an aura for zero. Paired with the new 1 mana Aura that gives a 1 time usable Gift of immortality the deck could work out imo. Testing is the only way to find out....
Feels like it deserves its own topic. I don't have access to premium SCG and Gerry's decklists, but I assume there's some value to pick in playing Flagstones of Trokair and Darksteel Citadel.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
No, keep copter. Its very presence in any sort of modern deck is an admission that the deck has dead cards in it, and, frankly, you need the card flow to compensate for the deck's lack of anything else that helps you assemble any particular pair of creatures. If you're going to run this alleged decklist, you might as well take out Deputy of Detention, since you technically do have removal for any permanent in Kirin.
TTR is good as a one of, slim applications but he does those things well. I'm back on stonies over hurkyls so he's necessary for vs prison at the very least.
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It's also not just about the static ability, but the minus which deals with prisons drawing you a card. I think this and the static ability are worth giving it a chance.
I'm also on Esper so casting souls at flash speed sounds spicy.
Speaking of which, I noticed that you ran Jace, the Mind Sculptor in your SB. I may or may not (no, really, idk yet) have split a mythic edition with a friend in which I will receive Jace, Gideon, Tezzeret, and Garruk, and I was wondering if it were worthwhile to put him somewhere in my 75. You've been testing a number of different planeswalkers in your Esper builds, so I was wondering how they stack up against JTMS.
I think the posts where I had explained the card have gone lost with that mess this site has been through like two months ago, but in short: there are slow enough matchups where you are at the mercy of the top deck and you not just want something to draw, but to draw selectively, so unless you are on bant for Company, you want a tool to pick up cards and decide what to keep. Jace does that, and being a PW it will be harder for the opponent to deal with it, especially when they don't see that coming. I want him against control and prisons. Whatever ensnaring bridge deck plays with no cards in hand so you just have to tick up for 5 turns before the opponent gets doomed. Control is forced to find D Sphere or move with colonnade to attacking, it puts them in a very awkward spot. Resolving Jace is the best play you can have and your plan should be focusse on that once you have it in your hand. Some told me you can't resolve TMS against a counterspell deck, I say by experience there's plenty of spots to do that if you re smart enough to sequence your cards. Drawing the best two cards off the top 4 on your deck pulls you so much ahead. It also deals with the 5/5 angels which is very important when you have a few PtE post side.
It feels great to have such a great card for the control MU but also for a variety of decks like mono red prison, enchantments, mill, 8 rack,Rock (you get full grind mode after sideboard), martyrs, controls, teachings, whirl... you get the brainstorm for longer games(liked it against vizier combo too where I'm the controller and I need to draw answers to fight his topdecks later in the game, plus it beats worship) and an alternative wincon that bypasses the attack step.
Test it yourself, have fun
2x mainboard, must have.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
Spells: 15
4 Aether Vial
3 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
1 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
2 Teferi, Time Raveler
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Darkslick Shore
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Stony Silence
2 Damping Sphere
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Rest In Peace
2 Countersquall
1 Favorable Winds
1 Bitterblossom
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Detention Sphere
1 Kaya, Orzhov Usurper
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Something about my sideboard choices: my meta is filled with controls and midrange. I still like being set up against the mtgo goldfish metagame, so I'm not ignoring graveyard strategies just because there're a couple of dredge and phoenix players out of the whole group of players I see at LGSs, for example, but cards like Blossom are specifically to deal with shadow, GB and UW control which we have abundance of, while Fav Winds is necessary for bolt decks and the mirror matchup.
Things might change depending on the impact TTR will have against the field, but I can see how these colours should aim at playing a tempo game in G1 switching to a slower and grindier plan post side when people brings in creature hate so the tempo plan is likely to be less effective. In order to do so you want Planeswalkers and tokens to overwhelm the opponent with their value, while disrupting them with the abilities of the creatures that make up the core of our deck.
BG Elves // "He's back. And he brought his friends. And their friends."
BG The Rock // "Dwayne Johnson approved."
RU Izzet Phoenix // "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
UGW Bant Spirits // "Super Ghost Bros."
BUG Sultai Wildnerness Teachings // "How many turns did I just take again?"
C Colorless Eldrazi // "Smash you."
List
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/129143
Dont you think that 4x Thalia is a bit tooo much in a tribal deck??
And why 3 PTE? Id rather play 4x Drogskol Captain instead of fourth Thalia. The rest of the deck is the same as yours
I gave him a shot as a two off as well in the last 5 round modern event.
My deck runs 2 Collective brutalities and 3 Lingering Souls and it was just bonkers to play them instant speed
Got 3-2 overall, winnining against GDS, Amulett Titan, Blue Tron and losing to Martyr Proc with all the new Tech (Sorin, Blast Zone) and a janky Madcap Platinum Angel taking turns build (The guy ran absolutely hot and never didnt having it 5-0 and told me he cant believe it ^^)
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
This combo seems terrible imo. Kirin is awful on its own because it blows up your other creatures when you cast spirits through an outlet other than Aether Vial, and Ugin's Conjurant is just an Endless One that withers itself. We don't have a reliable spirit tutor, either, to compensate for running two individually bad cards. Not to mention, it's "just" an Armageddon, so it doesn't actually win the game all the time. It's a serious problem for control and tron if it stumbled on assembly, but it doesn't help against an established board state. Using Kirin at higher CMCs requires a serious mana investment or an awkward vial at 4, in addition to the aforementioned risk to your own spirits.
As for the article, something tells me that SCG is trying to take advantage of Kirin's sudden price spike.
I posted this because I think it is a novel interaction that has possible applications. Previously I would not have considered Kirin, but it is oddly effective against very land-dependent decks and provides the possibility of multiple one-sided board-wipes in combination with Selfless Spirit. In fact, I think his build is not good because you want 3 of them.
It could just be bad, for the reasons you point out, but I am going to test it (with proxies for now!)
I don't like the idea in the Mono-W Eldrazi and Staxes deck because he took out Reality Smasher to do it, which is kind of crazy.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
2 Deputy of Detention
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
4 Spell Queller
4 Supreme Phantom
3 Ugin's Conjurant
4 Celestial Kirin
3 Island
2 Plains
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Aether Vial
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Path to Exile
IMO, you would really want:
-2 Copter
-1 PTE
+3 Selfless Spirit
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
No, keep copter. Its very presence in any sort of modern deck is an admission that the deck has dead cards in it, and, frankly, you need the card flow to compensate for the deck's lack of anything else that helps you assemble any particular pair of creatures. If you're going to run this alleged decklist, you might as well take out Deputy of Detention, since you technically do have removal for any permanent in Kirin.