i'm not running image anymore. The card is good but i can't find space for it. My 2x flex slots are currently 2x curious obsession but they could be images.
I'm not sure if running them is still right, i was always under the impression that they were filler until we got another 2 drop, which we got now...
I'm with you, I don't like it anymore. We can make pretty cool tricks, like vial Phantasmal Image into Spell Queller, but I think that this kind of kawaii interactions are inconsistent, and we don't have broken ETB triggers to copy at sorcery speed like humans. Personally, I'd be really happy if we get a real spirit in Return to Return to Ravnica to replace Phantasmal Image
I've been thinking of suggesting this for awhile now and while I know in and of itself its not a spirit it does synergies with the rest of the creatures in this deck and is not insane on the mana curve but if your moving away from image it may help and be a in color finisher. I will FREELY admit to you that I haven't played u/w sprits so I don't know how much board presence you can continually keep or what defensive strats to keep it in play.
FYI I would NEVER use the forecast ability but the card synergizes well with all your flyers and as a 2 or 3 it could grow decently big. Be aware it also counts your opponents flyers for its power toughness.
So summing up, I'm going the 2x Kira route to protect my board instead of forcing the chances of landing Captain+ Image, and I'm giving up on the "extra copies of Wanderer" (which you first have to draw) to deal with combos through powerful cards like Deprive and Labyrinth which have an effect on their own, not needing for a second card to be already there.
I went through the same experience and process you did about phantasmal image- few ETB effects and a reliance on static effects makes it usually a very weak card in this shell (whereas it's a house in Humans due to the plethora of ETB effects). I also ended up on 2x Kira as she's so powerful against the decks we struggle against. Our current mb's are almost identical. Your sb is definitely different than mine and some of your sb tech looks very interesting - ie. the "combo" between Deprive in the sb and Irrigated Farmland in the main - very clever. I'm going to try out your sb list just to see what it's like.
For what it's worth, I've found tron basically unwinnable, so tried making as many of the spell lands into Field of Ruins. Guess what? The tron matchup felt slightly better... and it really hurt other matchups, like UW control and Mardu. Not worth it. Mutavault and Moorland Haunt are where it's at for Vial Spirits as far as utility lands go.
I think the real issue with the deck right now is the lack of good 1-drops to compliment Wanderer. I think if we get another playable 1-drop the deck becomes very good. The deck excels whenever we get out to a decent start, but games where our first play is Selfless Spirit or Supreme Phantom feel like an uphill battle every time. Even a Rattlechains start on the draw can be too slow.
I've off-and-on tried non-spirits in that slot, like Thraben Inspector, Opt, Serum Visions and Spell Pierce, all of which were okay but not great. Pierce was a house against combo decks and sometimes control decks, but very poor against creature decks and a bad topdeck late-game. Inspector was okay but pretty much just a chump blocker, which is not a great synergistic fit. The lack of being pumped by the Lords makes it not very good vs. combo or control. I may actually try Topplegiest as a 2-of, just to see if it's worth it (I doubt it but haven't tried it yet).
Anyone tried cast out as maindeck answer for ensnaring bridge ect.?
I forgot about that card! I've been playing Detention Sphere in the sb which has been decidedly okay. Cast Out is much more on-theme (flash) for the deck, as well as being cycle-able if you don't need it. I'm going to try that out.
Has anyone read the very recent Todd Anderson article on Starcity.com comparing Bant Spirits to Humans and can tell me what he said? I don't have premium so can't read it.
I've off-and-on tried non-spirits in that slot, like Thraben Inspector, Opt, Serum Visions and Spell Pierce, all of which were okay but not great. Pierce was a house against combo decks and sometimes control decks, but very poor against creature decks and a bad topdeck late-game. Inspector was okay but pretty much just a chump blocker, which is not a great synergistic fit. The lack of being pumped by the Lords makes it not very good vs. combo or control. I may actually try Topplegiest as a 2-of, just to see if it's worth it (I doubt it but haven't tried it yet)...
What about Judge's Familiar? It's like a honorary spirit, and increases the chance of turn 1 Vial -> turn 2 drop a CMC2 spirit into Vial CMC1 creature. He protects your early turns and put some extra damage to be a little more aggro. Also it fix a little more the "I have nothing to do on turn one" hands.
I'll make a shamefaced admission: I have run Kami of False Hope as a 1 drop main. Works fine early, stops alpha strikes later and allows us to swing in seemingly giving an opponent the free kill on the swing back, only to crush them.
If aggression is desired, there is a strong case to be made for Cloudfin Raptor. Our deck essentially guarantees that it gets bigger and bigger up to maybe a 5/6 in some games, since the power and toughness of the creature entering wwill be that of it's Lord buff. It sort of works out as our flying champion of the Parish. At the ever least, it ought to go to 1/2, 2/3 very easily and 3/4 should be frequent.
I'll make a shamefaced admission: I have run Kami of False Hope as a 1 drop main. Works fine early, stops alpha strikes later and allows us to swing in seemingly giving an opponent the free kill on the swing back, only to crush them.
If aggression is desired, there is a strong case to be made for Cloudfin Raptor. Our deck essentially guarantees that it gets bigger and bigger up to maybe a 5/6 in some games, since the power and toughness of the creature entering wwill be that of it's Lord buff. It sort of works out as our flying champion of the Parish. At the ever least, it ought to go to 1/2, 2/3 very easily and 3/4 should be frequent.
My shamefaced admission: Topplegeist is my fetish card and I've tried a lot of ways to enable delirium for him, but it's really hard in a vial deck atm.
You guys have mentioned a lot of nice posible one drops. I really want to play a faster version of U/W Vial with 8 CMC1 creatures.
The way I see it, the deck's goal is to delay the opponent just enough until we kill them on turn 4 or 5. What we've been doing with the deck is more like building a board state that they can never hope to kill, but ending up dying to them getting around our lock on turn 6 or so.
I like the fact that people are tossing out ideas and suggestions - I'd forgotten about cloudfin raptor and hadn't thought of signal pest as a potential fit. As mentioned, they're both terrible topdecks, and probably not worth it, but may be worth a try. I was thinking about trying Bugler too - it's amazing in humans and soldier stompy. But yeah, 3-drop that doesn't fit the theme... :-(
I'm going to keep trying Topplegeist for now. I think the delirium is basically impossible pre-board, and still really hard to get post-board even if you're siding in Cast Out. We'll see how it goes as just a one-time tap effect.
My wife and I played magic as teenagers. We just started playing again together, and going to fnm.
I built a Jund similar to Reid Duke, but with delirium, and some tutors, and I can sweep pretty hard with it. My wife plays stompy, and black devotion.
I envisioned a second deck, and starting 5 months ago I went ghost tribe. I got the inspiration from South Park, when Randy Marsh gets covered in "ectoplasm", an inside joke between my wife and I.
This is my attempt at a brew, I'm not a fan of netdecking, I love building decks off architecture in place for success. And I wanted a b-w tribe with moderate acceleration and removal. My wife and I play tested it, and it's pretty strong and consistent. But itd be great to get seen community feedback. This is my first post here, if I did this wrong apologies.
Spirits is a pretty known archytype at this stage, especially after the printing of Supreme Phantom and Remorseful Cleric.
You can compare your list to what other are playing and doin well with here - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-u-w-spirits-53805
First game I kept a 4 land hand and lost after only drawing lands after that.
Second game I sideboarded out the remands for kor firewalker. My hand was aether vial, two mausoleom wanderers, and a judges familiar. I won that game after finding a supreme spirit.
Third game I sided in 2 negates over selfless spirits. I ended up losing after I tapped out to play pride of the clouds, instead of waiting for my aether vial to tick up to play it. I had negate in hand. I believe I would have won if I waited.
Fourth game I chained mausoleom wanderer into remorseful cleric into another mausoleom wanderer and pride of the clouds. The remorseful cleric stopped him from going off, and I had a lot of pressure on board.
The matchup seems favorable to me. If I ever saw kor firewalker, I believe he would have folded to it. Pride of the clouds is a very fast clock. Spectral procession is card I saw, but never cast because I often didn't want to tap out for it. Maybe I should side it out, instead of the remands. Every game was basically won on turn 4.
It's a fun deck to pilot for sure. I hope to play it against some higher tier deck's next week.
Topplegeist is quite strong in a Tallowisp Build wich just git stronger with Metamorphic Alteration.
In that Build Topplegeist serves as a 1 drop to trigger tallowisp+an easy body to alter+a control tool. In fact enchantments just happen to be an unusual card type.
The last time I played a tallowisp build it was something like this
First game I kept a 4 land hand and lost after only drawing lands after that.
Second game I sideboarded out the remands for kor firewalker. My hand was aether vial, two mausoleom wanderers, and a judges familiar. I won that game after finding a supreme spirit.
Third game I sided in 2 negates over selfless spirits. I ended up losing after I tapped out to play pride of the clouds, instead of waiting for my aether vial to tick up to play it. I had negate in hand. I believe I would have won if I waited.
Fourth game I chained mausoleom wanderer into remorseful cleric into another mausoleom wanderer and pride of the clouds. The remorseful cleric stopped him from going off, and I had a lot of pressure on board.
The matchup seems favorable to me. If I ever saw kor firewalker, I believe he would have folded to it. Pride of the clouds is a very fast clock. Spectral procession is card I saw, but never cast because I often didn't want to tap out for it. Maybe I should side it out, instead of the remands. Every game was basically won on turn 4.
It's a fun deck to pilot for sure. I hope to play it against some higher tier deck's next week.
If your not doing it during a main phase have you thought of midnight haunting. Sure one less body but instant speed and EOT on opponents. Also kinda funny in response to making wanderer into spell pierce while gaining more tempo.
Hey all - I've been lurking in this thread looking for suggestions on card selection and wanted to post back some results. I played twice this weekend and went 4-0 at my local FNM (first time!) and 2-1 (kind of 3-1) at a store championship the next day. Matchups are below:
FNM
2-0 against UW flicker: they went for a value-based plan by flickering UW creatures but were unable to keep up. They relied a lot on Wall of Omens which spirits just flies over. Only sideboarding was -2 remorseful for +2 eidolon of rhetoric since they were able to flickerwisp my spell quellers to get their stuff back.
2-0 against Mono W taxes: when we both had aether vials out, the taxing from thalia does nothing and ghost quarters are not bad. Spirits build on top of each other much better than leonin arbiters and flickerwisps.
2-0 against Grixis Waste Not: this was an interesting matchup in that they had a lot of discard, which generally does well against spirits, but would hold it up until T3 or T4 when they could get Waste Not and Liliana's Caress out to do damage. Was able to queller some key plays and cancel a damnation via a flashed in mausoleum wanderer to keep the beatdown going. The sideboard Kami here was nice to remove an early Waste Not in game 2 in response to him casting an inquisition that he thought would get more value.
2-1 against Bridgevine: this was definitely the hardest matchup because of how explosive they are, but I actually feel like spirits is positioned well for it. Bridge From Below gets exiled from the graveyard whenever a creature of ours dies, and (at least in my list) there are 10 creatures that can be sacced to do something + 3 phantasmals that can copy them. Game one when he was setting up I was able to flash in a remorseful cleric and copy it with a vialed in phantasmal in response to him casting a ballista for 0, and he never recovered. Game two he was on the play and was just way too quick, even with a ratchet bomb killing 5 zombies. Game three was very close because he had Darkblast in his opener which was a persistent threat, but once I had a supreme phantom out things snowballed and I was able to close it.
Store Championship
2-0 against Jeskai: this is a great matchup for us. Constantly was able to cancel their spot removal and swing in. The mainboard remands here are fantastic since they can buy a turn (which is usually a lot of damage) and maybe draw into a queller or selfless spirit.
1-2 against mono white aggro humans: they were able to assemble too quickly and Champion of the Parish is just a much better one drop than Mausoleum Wanderer in this matchup. Even with some Paths and some plays with vialing in lords to block, they were able to get there 2/3 games. I did not draw into any sideboard cards here: I did -2 remand, -2 remorseful for ratchet bomb, detention sphere, worship, and blessed alliance. In the final game my opener was 3x land, 4x spirit which in retrospect I should have mulled in favor of any of the sideboard or a vial.
2-0 against UB mill: This one was much easier; the opponent had a fairly casual deck which did not run enough disruption. They got mana screwed game one, and game two I had a mausoleum wanderer up in case they got close to milling.
1-0 against RB hollow one: We IDed and played one friendly. I drew into paths to kill a gurmag and a flameblade adept, and got lucky in them discarding their hollow ones during their goblin lores and burning inquiries. I was able to shut off the recurring bloodghasts with the mainboard remorsefuls and get there.
Overall I am very happy with my current mainboard, but am still working on the sideboard. The deck feels very strong against fair decks and control, even with the grave decks (as long as there are remorseful clerics in there), and soft against aggro creatures. The likely axe is the 2x azorious heralds for another Worship and a Settle the Wreckage. The remorseful clerics and remands come out a pretty big chunk of the time, but they help a lot against the grave decks so I think they are still a fine choice for the mainboard. I also do not like Rest in Peace with 2x Moorland Haunt, which is a fantastic tool in grindier matchups and discard-based decks like Mardu Pyro or Hollow One. The deck is really sweet though and I have been having a ton of fun with it.
The biggest take away is that spirits in both variants is a fringe archetype no more.
It would be interesting to know the actual winrates of each list, because in a team event the result of a team might not reflect the individual scores.
Thanks to Wizards, the only way to know that is to ask directly to the Spirits players :/
has anyone tried ancestral vision with the new creatures? i've tested some with it in casual games and has been incredible if suspended turn 1. It's a terrible top deck but gives us gas when most needed: turn 5. So we dump our hand, and by turn 5 we draw 4 cards and replay everything or close out the game.
I know it's been tested before but i'm not sure if it has with the new creatures.
In any case i'll run a list this friday and post the results.
And again dromoka's fight ability makes thalia's first strike shine
Why would first strike make the fight ability better? First strike only affects combat damage. I would consider Qasali pridemage over rec sage because you can play it out earlier and it has exalted like noble to allow you to get in more damage. It can be better to hit off coco if there isn't an artifact that you want to hit right away, if you want to wait for the bridge to come for instance.
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I'm with you, I don't like it anymore. We can make pretty cool tricks, like vial Phantasmal Image into Spell Queller, but I think that this kind of kawaii interactions are inconsistent, and we don't have broken ETB triggers to copy at sorcery speed like humans. Personally, I'd be really happy if we get a real spirit in Return to Return to Ravnica to replace Phantasmal Image
What do you think about a couple of Favorable Winds or a couple of Remorseful Cleric MB?
Pride of the Clouds
FYI I would NEVER use the forecast ability but the card synergizes well with all your flyers and as a 2 or 3 it could grow decently big. Be aware it also counts your opponents flyers for its power toughness.
I went through the same experience and process you did about phantasmal image- few ETB effects and a reliance on static effects makes it usually a very weak card in this shell (whereas it's a house in Humans due to the plethora of ETB effects). I also ended up on 2x Kira as she's so powerful against the decks we struggle against. Our current mb's are almost identical. Your sb is definitely different than mine and some of your sb tech looks very interesting - ie. the "combo" between Deprive in the sb and Irrigated Farmland in the main - very clever. I'm going to try out your sb list just to see what it's like.
For what it's worth, I've found tron basically unwinnable, so tried making as many of the spell lands into Field of Ruins. Guess what? The tron matchup felt slightly better... and it really hurt other matchups, like UW control and Mardu. Not worth it. Mutavault and Moorland Haunt are where it's at for Vial Spirits as far as utility lands go.
I think the real issue with the deck right now is the lack of good 1-drops to compliment Wanderer. I think if we get another playable 1-drop the deck becomes very good. The deck excels whenever we get out to a decent start, but games where our first play is Selfless Spirit or Supreme Phantom feel like an uphill battle every time. Even a Rattlechains start on the draw can be too slow.
I've off-and-on tried non-spirits in that slot, like Thraben Inspector, Opt, Serum Visions and Spell Pierce, all of which were okay but not great. Pierce was a house against combo decks and sometimes control decks, but very poor against creature decks and a bad topdeck late-game. Inspector was okay but pretty much just a chump blocker, which is not a great synergistic fit. The lack of being pumped by the Lords makes it not very good vs. combo or control. I may actually try Topplegiest as a 2-of, just to see if it's worth it (I doubt it but haven't tried it yet).
I forgot about that card! I've been playing Detention Sphere in the sb which has been decidedly okay. Cast Out is much more on-theme (flash) for the deck, as well as being cycle-able if you don't need it. I'm going to try that out.
Has anyone read the very recent Todd Anderson article on Starcity.com comparing Bant Spirits to Humans and can tell me what he said? I don't have premium so can't read it.
What about Judge's Familiar? It's like a honorary spirit, and increases the chance of turn 1 Vial -> turn 2 drop a CMC2 spirit into Vial CMC1 creature. He protects your early turns and put some extra damage to be a little more aggro. Also it fix a little more the "I have nothing to do on turn one" hands.
I'll make a shamefaced admission: I have run Kami of False Hope as a 1 drop main. Works fine early, stops alpha strikes later and allows us to swing in seemingly giving an opponent the free kill on the swing back, only to crush them.
Topplegeist is actually quite powerful in combination with Nebelghast Herald, though it is a crappy attacker.
If aggression is desired, there is a strong case to be made for Cloudfin Raptor. Our deck essentially guarantees that it gets bigger and bigger up to maybe a 5/6 in some games, since the power and toughness of the creature entering wwill be that of it's Lord buff. It sort of works out as our flying champion of the Parish. At the ever least, it ought to go to 1/2, 2/3 very easily and 3/4 should be frequent.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
My shamefaced admission: Topplegeist is my fetish card and I've tried a lot of ways to enable delirium for him, but it's really hard in a vial deck atm.
You guys have mentioned a lot of nice posible one drops. I really want to play a faster version of U/W Vial with 8 CMC1 creatures.
The way I see it, the deck's goal is to delay the opponent just enough until we kill them on turn 4 or 5. What we've been doing with the deck is more like building a board state that they can never hope to kill, but ending up dying to them getting around our lock on turn 6 or so.
I'll let you know how it works out.
I'm going to keep trying Topplegeist for now. I think the delirium is basically impossible pre-board, and still really hard to get post-board even if you're siding in Cast Out. We'll see how it goes as just a one-time tap effect.
Maindeck (60)
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
3 Selfless Spirit
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Drogskol Shieldmate
4 Spell Queller
3 Path to Exile
3 Serum Visions
2 Spell Pierce
2 Azorius Charm
2 Eerie Interlude
4 Aether Vial
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
Sideboard (15)
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Remorseful Cleric
3 Ojutai's Command
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Stony Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
My wife and I played magic as teenagers. We just started playing again together, and going to fnm.
I built a Jund similar to Reid Duke, but with delirium, and some tutors, and I can sweep pretty hard with it. My wife plays stompy, and black devotion.
I envisioned a second deck, and starting 5 months ago I went ghost tribe. I got the inspiration from South Park, when Randy Marsh gets covered in "ectoplasm", an inside joke between my wife and I.
This is my attempt at a brew, I'm not a fan of netdecking, I love building decks off architecture in place for success. And I wanted a b-w tribe with moderate acceleration and removal. My wife and I play tested it, and it's pretty strong and consistent. But itd be great to get seen community feedback. This is my first post here, if I did this wrong apologies.
You can compare your list to what other are playing and doin well with here - https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-u-w-spirits-53805
Also here is the Spirits primer - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/aggro-tempo/792118-modern-spirits
Here's my list.
3 judge's familiar
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 pride of the clouds
4 supreme phantom
4 selfless spirit
3 spectral procession
4 spell queller
3 remorseful cleric
3 remand
4 hallowed fountain
4 flooded strand
2 moorland haunt
6 plains
6 island
We played 4 games. I won 2 of them.
First game I kept a 4 land hand and lost after only drawing lands after that.
Second game I sideboarded out the remands for kor firewalker. My hand was aether vial, two mausoleom wanderers, and a judges familiar. I won that game after finding a supreme spirit.
Third game I sided in 2 negates over selfless spirits. I ended up losing after I tapped out to play pride of the clouds, instead of waiting for my aether vial to tick up to play it. I had negate in hand. I believe I would have won if I waited.
Fourth game I chained mausoleom wanderer into remorseful cleric into another mausoleom wanderer and pride of the clouds. The remorseful cleric stopped him from going off, and I had a lot of pressure on board.
The matchup seems favorable to me. If I ever saw kor firewalker, I believe he would have folded to it. Pride of the clouds is a very fast clock. Spectral procession is card I saw, but never cast because I often didn't want to tap out for it. Maybe I should side it out, instead of the remands. Every game was basically won on turn 4.
It's a fun deck to pilot for sure. I hope to play it against some higher tier deck's next week.
Put Smuggler's Copter to enable some sweet delirum hahaha.
Guys, do you think that Ghostly Prison SB could work against wide aggro? Especially if you play Nebelgast Herald MB.
If your not doing it during a main phase have you thought of midnight haunting. Sure one less body but instant speed and EOT on opponents. Also kinda funny in response to making wanderer into spell pierce while gaining more tempo.
Also, has anybody watched Magic_aids u/w spirit video where he plays 4 x spectral procession? Seems like it has some potential.
4 Aether Vial
// 30 Creature
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Supreme Phantom
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Phantasmal Image
1 Nebelgast Herald
2 Remorseful Cleric
3 Path to Exile
2 Remand
// 21 Land
2 Moorland Haunt
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Windswept Heath
3 Plains
4 Island
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Mutavault
2 Flooded Strand
2 Damping Sphere
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Kami of Ancient Law
2 Azorius Herald
1 Remorseful Cleric
1 Detention Sphere
1 Worship
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Negate
Hey all - I've been lurking in this thread looking for suggestions on card selection and wanted to post back some results. I played twice this weekend and went 4-0 at my local FNM (first time!) and 2-1 (kind of 3-1) at a store championship the next day. Matchups are below:
FNM
Store Championship
Overall I am very happy with my current mainboard, but am still working on the sideboard. The deck feels very strong against fair decks and control, even with the grave decks (as long as there are remorseful clerics in there), and soft against aggro creatures. The likely axe is the 2x azorious heralds for another Worship and a Settle the Wreckage. The remorseful clerics and remands come out a pretty big chunk of the time, but they help a lot against the grave decks so I think they are still a fine choice for the mainboard. I also do not like Rest in Peace with 2x Moorland Haunt, which is a fantastic tool in grindier matchups and discard-based decks like Mardu Pyro or Hollow One. The deck is really sweet though and I have been having a ton of fun with it.
This is the link for all decks (3 Bant Spirits included):
Thanks to Wizards, the only way to know that is to ask directly to the Spirits players :/
I know it's been tested before but i'm not sure if it has with the new creatures.
In any case i'll run a list this friday and post the results.
Why would first strike make the fight ability better? First strike only affects combat damage. I would consider Qasali pridemage over rec sage because you can play it out earlier and it has exalted like noble to allow you to get in more damage. It can be better to hit off coco if there isn't an artifact that you want to hit right away, if you want to wait for the bridge to come for instance.