Yeah my biggest concern with the data from Karsten's article is he programmed it to auto-mull all one land hands, when a land and a faithless looting is often keep-able and if there is a street wraith mixed in it's even better. I don't think this would make any Big differences, but it does make it a little more consistent, and considering the deck runs 17-18 lands total, there are a decent number of times you get a one lander which can be ok.
Yeah my biggest concern with the data from Karsten's article is he programmed it to auto-mull all one land hands, when a land and a faithless looting is often keep-able and if there is a street wraith mixed in it's even better. ...
That is exactly scenario of screenshot above. I drew one land, Wraith, Looting and 1 Hollow One. Drew the other 2 through the cycling of the Wraith and then Looting.... I think a 1-lander that is able to cast Hollow One on turn 1 is a keep.
I'm still learning Modern in general and am fascinated by the Hollow One deck. Can anyone help me understand why it seems they all run strictly B/R instead of Grixis colors? It seems like adding opens the door to a lot of advantageous options such as: Cunning Survivor, Shadowstorm Vizier, Countervailing Winds, and Nimble Obstructionist.
Because anything actually costing 2 (or 3!) mana that doesn't make immediate impact or have a huge body is prohibitively slow for how fast this deck operates. This deck tends to cast Hollow Ones for 0 or 1, gets its Vengevines and/or Bloodghasts for free, its Flamewakes for R, Gurmags for B, any of which might happen before the end of turn 2, turn 1 if we're lucky. It has bigger things to do on turn 2/3 than cast a small creature that might become useful later.
yeah, all those 2/3 cmc are big.... the average cmc of the deck is less than 1 optimally... thats why i dont like playing 4 goblin lore 2 collective brutality... too high cmcs lol.
as far as engineer explosives/sweepers....
we dont want cards over 3cmc really... so we can think of e.e. on 0 or 1 only...
but since it is more versatile, i think it is probably a better card. vs humans, tokens, 8rack, chalice of the void...
Two cards I have been toying around with are Bloodrage Brawler and Pale Rider of Trostad. Although we don't auto-lose to graveyard hate, it still really hurts and I was trying to find ways around that. I have been thinking Delve creatures in game 1 and then side them out game 2 for one of these in anticipation for graveyard hate. What do you guys think?
I have Brawlers in my current ( mono red manabase) build though they’re on the verge of being canned when I get more Flameblade Adepts. They’ve been good, not great (which is why they’re the cards on the verge of being pushed out).
Brawler is interesting, but I don't know if it's going to be better than Tarmogoyf that you could play for 2 also. If you're using the Bloodrage Brawler because you expect gy hate you probably won't be getting much value out of the discard other than cutting the cost on a hollow one, but you'd have to discard another card and have a third land for a Hollow One, or have 2 Street Wraiths or something to make that worth it.
I don’t think the ideal is using B.B. because of grave hate, it’s using it because it’s an efficient beater and discard outlet in one (Tarmo is an efficient beater but not a discard outlet). BB is singlehandedly big enough to bring back the very Flamewake Phoenix it might discard as a ‘cost’. (And that’s a large part of the reason I like it more than the other candidates in that role, Pale Rider of Trostad and Heir of Falkenrath). It can pitch Vengevine or Bloodghast for you (nonrandomly!), or you can hold it to your last hand-depleted play and just play it without discard at all.
Looking sharp, folks. Big ups to Pizzap for putting together a comprehensive and insightful primer. Upon first seeing this deck months ago, I was immediately drawn to it. I knew that the early versions with Fiery Temper and Call to the Netherworld were rough prototypes Edge of Autumn followed. I've stopped using all of these cards in my B/R build. Goblin Lore has been a superior replacement for Cathartic Reunion, but I wonder -- like reunion -- if (4) is necessary?? If I had to cut anything from that Premier 'Stock' list, it'd probably be the 4th Lore. Like others have suggested, I would most want to see Asylum Visitor sneak into the (75). Gotta bring back at least one card that has "madness" right?
Roulette. I think that deck name is so boss. Is that pretty much the accepted name for B/R Hollow One these days. It really took forever for someone to come up with a apt title for the deck.
Well, I've been tinkering with the sideboard during the post-ban period. I ran this deck at FNM and did have trouble sideboarding - especially against Affinity. I had a full (10) cards that I could have brought in. Like someone recently remarked, you want to be careful not to dilute the engine and most likely stick with swapping out Collective Brutality and Lightning Bolts. Is that pretty much the consensus here??
The deck doesn't really have 'packages' that can be swapped in and out. If there was a creature set that did have to come out, would people also choose Bloodghast -- or is it the case that I'm probably trying to do too much in the sideboard, and I should just have faith that the deck design will win out on its own merit?
Another card I was 1-of/fun-of considering to battle decks which feature attacking formations which usually consist of 1 large creature: Primeval Titan, Eldrazi, Celestial Colonnade, and the like is Vengeful Pharaoh. Ultimately, he won't work since Blood Moon would also come in against these decks. Just dying to find a home for this ill-tempered fella.
The following is what I ran for a sideboard, but I'm not married to it.
hell yeah. Roulette was the idea for a name which i have been pushing people to adopt cause its so fitting! ... came up in a chat on discord with char_aznable, myself and another person. He brought up Yahtzee! as a name ... which led me to roulette cause the colors of the deck.
i think dreadbore, and high of souls are maybe clunky and high cmc for the deck. 2x pithing needle is legit, and the earliest forms of the deck played them. e.e is flexible and decent tho. I have been thinking 3 Blood moon would be good at the moment. and 2x needle. I've cut leylines for just 2x spellbomb.
needle can just hit so many problem cards.... ravager, cranial plating, search for azcanta, planeswalkers, o stone, expedition map t1... etc. and its at 1 cmc, which is what our deck wants.
Big Ups for NuBlkAu on the naming of the deck, Roulette. Folks at my LGS have seen this around, and were all impressed with the new moniker. Seriously, you should have seen me going around, and saying, "Hey, have you heard the news.......?"
Agree, in hindsight that Dreadbore is too clunky/slow. Pithing Needle may work well, but I am also a fan of Damping Matrix - albeit expensive. I like the idea on trading the Leylines for spellbomb...I faced a goryo's grishoalbrand deck on my 1st matchup on Friday, and was beside myself for taking out the leylines. C'mon!!
Although expensive and a non-bo with Bloodghast, Night of Souls' Betrayal will end decks that seek to defend by swarming tokens / manlands / infect / affinity / lingering souls. As a 1-of, I think it's worth it. The other option, however narrow & jank, is Electrickery.
Roulette is a great name for the version of the deck that runs the random discarders (goblin lore, Burning inquiry) Not everyone runs the random discarders though. Some people play the deck using nonrandom discarders and cyclers. And for those flavours the name isn’t such a fit.
Although expensive and a non-bo with Bloodghast, Night of Souls' Betrayal will end decks that seek to defend by swarming tokens / manlands / infect / affinity / lingering souls. As a 1-of, I think it's worth it. The other option, however narrow & jank, is Electrickery.
I've been toying with Barrage of Boulders, it's not a fancy card and it costs 3 mana but it will definitely break their defence (you should have no trouble triggering ferocious)
Roulette is a great name for the version of the deck that runs the random discarders (goblin lore, Burning inquiry) Not everyone runs the random discarders though. Some people play the deck using nonrandom discarders and cyclers. And for those flavours the name isn’t such a fit.
yeah, i think it might be time that the forums are divided. the ways the decks play are so radically different, and the fact that they both play Hollow One isn't enough to keep them together. giving RB a clear and unique name might be the thing that can make that possible.
I'm caught up! I've read every post in the thread, and gathered a lot of insights into what has worked and hasn't worked. Some sharp in this development - hope I can contribute. I do wish that more people would hyperlink their card suggestions for ease of reference. To do so, you type [card] in front of the card and [/card$] after the card -- but, don't use the $ sign...I have to type that erroneous character in to show the code.
Thinking about a 1-of/fun-of, and I think I've got one. Perhaps, the best part is his name. He reminds of my favorite atrocious football player who was so fun to root for: Tim Tebow. Shouting out Tebow was exhilarating. And, now I can do it again. Tibalt!!!!!
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded -- All of his modulars work to our advantage. He's the only planeswalker that our mana curve allows. And, he's so clown-shoes laughable as a threat that he'll never get attacked! If Roulette won't take in this poor li'l fella, who will?
as far as engineer explosives/sweepers....
we dont want cards over 3cmc really... so we can think of e.e. on 0 or 1 only...
but since it is more versatile, i think it is probably a better card. vs humans, tokens, 8rack, chalice of the void...
PROS
Has similar functions to dredge, Incorporates a slower but more swarm oriented attack.Strong late game.
cons
slower
mana base needs work
would like to see counter spells worked in.
4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Inquiry
Enchantments
4 Zombie Infestation
Creatures
3 Magus of the Bazaar
3 Prized Amalgam
3 Hollow One
4 vengeful pharaoh
4 Bloodghast
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
new list
4 Magus of the Bazaar
4 Bloodghast
3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Prized Amalgam
3 Hollow One
3 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Zombie infestation
spells
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Faithless Looting
lands
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
what about asylum visitor?
---------Tibalt, the fiend-blooded
4 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Blood Crypt
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Faithless Looting
4 Bloodghast
4 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Collective Brutality
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Flamewake Phoenix
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Hollow One
Roulette. I think that deck name is so boss. Is that pretty much the accepted name for B/R Hollow One these days. It really took forever for someone to come up with a apt title for the deck.
Well, I've been tinkering with the sideboard during the post-ban period. I ran this deck at FNM and did have trouble sideboarding - especially against Affinity. I had a full (10) cards that I could have brought in. Like someone recently remarked, you want to be careful not to dilute the engine and most likely stick with swapping out Collective Brutality and Lightning Bolts. Is that pretty much the consensus here??
The deck doesn't really have 'packages' that can be swapped in and out. If there was a creature set that did have to come out, would people also choose Bloodghast -- or is it the case that I'm probably trying to do too much in the sideboard, and I should just have faith that the deck design will win out on its own merit?
Another card I was 1-of/fun-of considering to battle decks which feature attacking formations which usually consist of 1 large creature: Primeval Titan, Eldrazi, Celestial Colonnade, and the like is Vengeful Pharaoh. Ultimately, he won't work since Blood Moon would also come in against these decks. Just dying to find a home for this ill-tempered fella.
The following is what I ran for a sideboard, but I'm not married to it.
2 ancient grudge
1 big game hunter
2 engineered explosives
2 torpor orb
2 dreadbore
2 blood moon
1 rakdos charm
1 night of souls' betrayal
i think dreadbore, and high of souls are maybe clunky and high cmc for the deck. 2x pithing needle is legit, and the earliest forms of the deck played them. e.e is flexible and decent tho. I have been thinking 3 Blood moon would be good at the moment. and 2x needle. I've cut leylines for just 2x spellbomb.
needle can just hit so many problem cards.... ravager, cranial plating, search for azcanta, planeswalkers, o stone, expedition map t1... etc. and its at 1 cmc, which is what our deck wants.
Agree, in hindsight that Dreadbore is too clunky/slow. Pithing Needle may work well, but I am also a fan of Damping Matrix - albeit expensive. I like the idea on trading the Leylines for spellbomb...I faced a goryo's grishoalbrand deck on my 1st matchup on Friday, and was beside myself for taking out the leylines. C'mon!!
Although expensive and a non-bo with Bloodghast, Night of Souls' Betrayal will end decks that seek to defend by swarming tokens / manlands / infect / affinity / lingering souls. As a 1-of, I think it's worth it. The other option, however narrow & jank, is Electrickery.
yeah, i think it might be time that the forums are divided. the ways the decks play are so radically different, and the fact that they both play Hollow One isn't enough to keep them together. giving RB a clear and unique name might be the thing that can make that possible.
Pyroclasm was in one of my earlier test versions, Jim_Prov - downside is mutual destruction. I also toyed with the idea of bonfire of the damned, but realized electrickery (for all the mana we don't source up with only 18 lands) is a better, however limited option. Barrage of Boulders is a superb option, Depian! Way better than Night of souls' betrayal.
Thinking about a 1-of/fun-of, and I think I've got one. Perhaps, the best part is his name. He reminds of my favorite atrocious football player who was so fun to root for: Tim Tebow. Shouting out Tebow was exhilarating. And, now I can do it again. Tibalt!!!!!
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded -- All of his modulars work to our advantage. He's the only planeswalker that our mana curve allows. And, he's so clown-shoes laughable as a threat that he'll never get attacked! If Roulette won't take in this poor li'l fella, who will?