I don't know what your predispositions are but I would submit to you that if it works, and does help to win games, then it absolutely is correct.
You are playing a slightly better version of a bad deck. That is never going to be "correct" by any definition of the term.
Ok so your only point remains that Stompy isn't 5c Humans. Ever think that some of us might have fetches lying around from our other "actually good" decks? Your elitism is incredible.
You're in a Stompy thread. We like Stompy here. If you don't, then go find another thread to ***** on.
Importance of Dryad Militant
Some people are trying out CoCo builds, for this to be happen, you need to cut some cards. It should not be Dryad Militant. I am going to disagree with some minor points in the main post. Dryad Militant is not a flex card and Kessig Prowler is a not going to make your list. You cut E1 and Narnam before Dryad Militant because Militant is so strong against Jund, Control, Pyromancer, and Storm.
Rhonas is a Staple?
With Steel Leaf Champion being released, the 3 drop slot is just so stacked and its going to be your least played slot. You need to pick your cards wisely and Rhonas the Indomitable can be really good in some situations and completely blank in some others. I am honestly not a fan of a card like this but I can definitely see it in some lists but it's not what I define as a staple. A staple should be a card that is played generally without special circumstances. Rhonas is a flex slot card and we have quite a few in our 3 slot like Dungrove Elder, Groundbreaker, and Boggart Ram-Gang.
All in all, I hope you find some of this helpful and if you disagree, feel free to let me know.
One of the reasons I play this deck is because it has Dryad Militant. There's a lot that the little 2/1 could do.
Anyway, looks like you have a balanced list.. aggressive with all those one drops. Haven't tested Steel Leafs yet since I don't have any.. they're still too expensive to buy right now.
About Rhonas, he's sort of like an equipment. Needing another creature to be able to function. I once thought that he's a bad card... but on testing, he's good, but I won't use more than one in a deck.
Excited to go back to my stompy deck for the first time in two months with fetches, Canopies, Renegades, and Steel Leaf
I'm very interested to see how Steel leaf changes the way we build our deck. Will it become an immediate 4-of? Will it make Rhonas that much stronger, or completely replace Rhonas as the more consistent creature? Do we run a more top-end heavy deck? Does ramping into Collected Company become a strong option?
Congrats on having the lands to improve the deck. Fetches do smooth things out for Narnam, and the canopies help a little with card draw.
As for Rhonas.. the guy resists board wipes and a lot of removals, provides "rancor" for 2G, even large goyfs and titans cannot kill him in combat. My deck would probably change to adapt to the meta.. but the god of strength will always be a one-of, he kicks butt.
My "predisposition" is that it's never correct to play a deck that is just a worse version of another deck. Either we discuss stompy as the budget deck it is, or we drop this nonsense about "optimal" and "correct". If you want to play fetches in mono green, go ahead, no-one's stopping you, but don't pretend like we are actually optimizing a competitive archetype here.
We are not pretending anything. We just want this deck to work as well as possible.
Talking about whether this deck 'deserves' upgrades is ridiculous, and isn't bringing anything constructive to this thread.
Playing "a slightly better version of a bad deck" is good enough for people who enjoy playing this deck, and that's the last I'll say about this.
Anyway, I would love to hear some results from people playing with Steel Leaf Champion, and see what the best ratio of 3-drops is. 4 Steel Leaf and a Rhonas is something I think I'm going to go for, but I'll wait for a bit with buying them as well.
That's why it is an instant. Sometimes there is a creature stand-off, I use Setessan tactics at end of opponent's turn. Then attack on my turn. And sometimes I've used it simply as a pump spell to boost my creatures as a combat trick, card does not say that it is mandatory to use the fight ability.
Anyway, still just testing it as a one-of.. still not sure if I would permanently add it to my deck.
When do you have untapped not-summoning-sick creatures on board at the end of your opponent’s turn with this deck? We don’t play the defensive game. For the most part if our creatures could turn sideways, they do, during our combat.
I think I'll be testing BbearZ's list, just instead of dungroves I'll probably add two more aspects, sometimes I rather gamble on the christmasland curve for the win.
Has anyone tried yet upping the manacurve with dorks to play 4cmc cards? We have some explosive options (mainly CoCo and Surrak, which I would use because of the haste it gives), I'm really interested on the potential of this type of plays on Stompy, I find the pseudo-evasion of Steel Leaf very relevant regarding this, Baloth didn't have that, but it adds up to a more explosive plan, trying to sneak in a big chunk of damage.
edit: I've tried setessan tactics btw, it's okay-ish when you have a stale board that you need to disrupt to get some damage in, but feels really bad when you need to put pressure and you draw it.
When do you have untapped not-summoning-sick creatures on board at the end of your opponent’s turn with this deck? We don’t play the defensive game. For the most part if our creatures could turn sideways, they do, during our combat.
Have you never experienced a board stall against another deck?
I would not tell my baloth to attack into a reality smasher just because baloth is not summoning sick.. and similarly my opponent cannot attack because I will gang block their large creature favorably... both me and the opponent are waiting for a card to break the board stall. End of turn setessan tactics, baloth is now a 5/6 tap to kill a smasher, tasigur, or gurmag angler.. my turn attack. Similarly, I can end of turn setessan tap rhonas or narnam to kill an important creature on the other side, then attack on my turn. If setessan was a sorcery, I would never have bothered testing it, but so far it's been good as a one-of.
I think I'll be testing BbearZ's list, just instead of dungroves I'll probably add two more aspects, sometimes I rather gamble on the christmasland curve for the win.
Has anyone tried yet upping the manacurve with dorks to play 4cmc cards? We have some explosive options (mainly CoCo and Surrak, which I would use because of the haste it gives), I'm really interested on the potential of this type of plays on Stompy, I find the pseudo-evasion of Steel Leaf very relevant regarding this, Baloth didn't have that, but it adds up to a more explosive plan, trying to sneak in a big chunk of damage.
edit: I've tried setessan tactics btw, it's okay-ish when you have a stale board that you need to disrupt to get some damage in, but feels really bad when you need to put pressure and you draw it.
The use of mana dorks has been brought up several times in the past pages. I'm not really against in trying out ideas.. but I can't see what cards should we ramp into besides Coco. And adding too many 4 cmc cards would really change the deck. I remember the discussion from the old Stompy thread that it's not possible to add more than 1 Thrun because it will be a fatal slowdown. If you're really up to using manadorks, then try using them and report back here on how it goes.
Even in your corner case exertion justification, you still haven’t presented a scenario where it’s preferable to the Dismember is it likely replacing.
Board stalls are a corner case scenerio? I guess they really don't happen much in your store.
And I never said Setessan is preferable to dismember. Have one Setessan in the main as an additional removal to Dismember, and Setessan is still being tested.. I'm not saying it's an auto-include in the deck.
Even in your corner case exertion justification, you still haven’t presented a scenario where it’s preferable to the Dismember is it likely replacing.
In theory, in match-ups such as merfolk, elves, and even affinity, this could prove to be useful. We have a good collection of creatures that are cmc to p/t efficient and although I hate the part of that card that says "Tap:", I would rather tap my creatures than die horribly to, say, double Elvish Champions. However, this card is falsely advertising card advantage, I think: Sure we can kill two or more creatures with this and we do not lose life, but we still need two creatures to kill two creatures and three to kill three, etc., so I say we can try it as a 1-off in the 60 for a time and see how it goes. I wish we had 1 mana Monstrous Onslaught or a 1 mana instant Nature's Way instead but that's too much I guess.
Also, don't forget that Rhonas can't attack or block alone but can fight till the morning light : P
And the guy who says "splash a color with fetches or your mono color deck is bad": Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated. You have reminded us of something we had long forgotten.
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
In regards to the guy who is arguing we are pretenders or delusional, there not being a place for optimizing this deck, and this is a "turd" deck. (Yea not going back to look up your name) I don't think anyone is pretending. People who play this deck know its strengths and weaknesses. We know how good it is and can be. We are not pretending to optimize this list. We are doing it. We want to play the best deck we can. What kind of logic is "the deck isn't tier 1 so you shouldn't try"... Then tell that 90% of the Established Modern section of this forum.
I think the only pretender is you. You have branded us as spikes and mentioned disparaging comments against budget only players in the past. However I believe the intentions of these comments were not against the players but the notion to refuse to try and optimize. Why can't we do both? By allowing us to try and play and discuss Mono Green Stompy and make it the best it can be while still having budget options. I don't see why that's bad at all or pointless. How can you pretend to try and call us Spikes and exclusive when we have been inclusive of budget options. You cannot say the same after you have bashed our intentions several times discourteously while muttering "but you can play what you like" in the end. Please try to see your hypocrisy. Mention we have a "spike exclusive mentality or get out" but you have the reverse "budget only mentality or get out".
You have literally said nothing new in your ramblings. I don't have to remind you, adding fetches to the this deck still makes it pretty dang budget in Modern. If you are so fervently stuck on budget, I'd suggest you not play Steel Leaf Champion either because it is at a nice 5 dollars a pop which is probably more expensive than half the deck if you are playing budget.
Anyone got any reports with the new SLC? Here's the list that went 2-2 last friday and has had pretty decent results in several casual games since then.
Not too fond of the weak SB against control but it seems BW control has been sloping downwards in popularity anyways, so I shored up other matchups instead.
Notably, I added 6 fetches and a full playset of Narnams and Steel Leaf, removed all Leatherbacks, went down to a single Rhonas, went -1 Blossoming Defense +1 Vines of Vastwood, and opted to run 20 lands to vibe with the lowered curve and to make room for 4 Narnams. I wish I could run 4 Aspects but I just can't make room.
Thoughts?
Also, can we talk about optimal lines of play? I never know if its better to get out Geist, Avatar, or Scooze first. I know that playing Haste creatures last allows for more damage over turns, but if I can get an Undying counter before I play Avatar, he comes out stronger. I also hate running out Scooze into removal just for the Evolve trigger.
Normally, I hold up Avatar if I think I can get two counters on him, otherwise I play Avatar on curve, and Geist last. My reasoning there is playing Geist after even Steel Leaf and Rhonas allows for the max possible damage over turns, and he is also the most resilient to removal/board wipes. A pair of Geists coming down after a board wipe has won me quite a few games.
I also will play out all E1 before any creatures that evolve them, not sure if this is correct or if I should just try to get one out and then move up the curve...
Again, I'm really not sure that my reasoning is optimal and I would really like to get the best possible damage per turn sorted out.
What do you guys think are our optimal lines of play for the earliest possible kill? When to play Aspect? Best targets for Rancor?
Gesit or scooze first and then avatar depending on board situation. Avatar is always coming last from that out of hand since its the one that wants to check counters the most. Likely its geist then scooze so that you can ram geist in to get the +1 and use a scooze ability to hopefully +1 as well, then get a 5/4 avatar assuming everything lines up correctly.
With E1 vs Militant, it greatly depends on what deck you're playing against. If your opponent has any graveyard recursion, Dryad might be the card you want to play first, depending on how urgently you need to stop it.
With the 2-drops, I would say that Scooze works a bit differently, in that you can see it as a 3-drop. When you play Scooze, you almost always want to have a mana open to (at least) eat one card, either at your opponent's end step, or in response to him being removed.
Other than that, I'd say your list looks good! The only thing I would change maindeck is adding Horizon Canopy, but I understand if that is a budget problem.
For lines of play, it depends on what deck I'm facing.. but going against an unknown opponent I always go Dryad, then geist or revolted narnam, and then everyone else in that order. If it's a Burn player.. always a revolted Narnam first, followed by a geist, then baloths if I have it.
Ok so your only point remains that Stompy isn't 5c Humans. Ever think that some of us might have fetches lying around from our other "actually good" decks? Your elitism is incredible.
You're in a Stompy thread. We like Stompy here. If you don't, then go find another thread to ***** on.
One of the reasons I play this deck is because it has Dryad Militant. There's a lot that the little 2/1 could do.
Anyway, looks like you have a balanced list.. aggressive with all those one drops. Haven't tested Steel Leafs yet since I don't have any.. they're still too expensive to buy right now.
About Rhonas, he's sort of like an equipment. Needing another creature to be able to function. I once thought that he's a bad card... but on testing, he's good, but I won't use more than one in a deck.
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Congrats on having the lands to improve the deck. Fetches do smooth things out for Narnam, and the canopies help a little with card draw.
As for Rhonas.. the guy resists board wipes and a lot of removals, provides "rancor" for 2G, even large goyfs and titans cannot kill him in combat. My deck would probably change to adapt to the meta.. but the god of strength will always be a one-of, he kicks butt.
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Talking about whether this deck 'deserves' upgrades is ridiculous, and isn't bringing anything constructive to this thread.
Playing "a slightly better version of a bad deck" is good enough for people who enjoy playing this deck, and that's the last I'll say about this.
Anyway, I would love to hear some results from people playing with Steel Leaf Champion, and see what the best ratio of 3-drops is. 4 Steel Leaf and a Rhonas is something I think I'm going to go for, but I'll wait for a bit with buying them as well.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
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Anyway, still just testing it as a one-of.. still not sure if I would permanently add it to my deck.
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Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Has anyone tried yet upping the manacurve with dorks to play 4cmc cards? We have some explosive options (mainly CoCo and Surrak, which I would use because of the haste it gives), I'm really interested on the potential of this type of plays on Stompy, I find the pseudo-evasion of Steel Leaf very relevant regarding this, Baloth didn't have that, but it adds up to a more explosive plan, trying to sneak in a big chunk of damage.
edit: I've tried setessan tactics btw, it's okay-ish when you have a stale board that you need to disrupt to get some damage in, but feels really bad when you need to put pressure and you draw it.
Have you never experienced a board stall against another deck?
I would not tell my baloth to attack into a reality smasher just because baloth is not summoning sick.. and similarly my opponent cannot attack because I will gang block their large creature favorably... both me and the opponent are waiting for a card to break the board stall. End of turn setessan tactics, baloth is now a 5/6 tap to kill a smasher, tasigur, or gurmag angler.. my turn attack. Similarly, I can end of turn setessan tap rhonas or narnam to kill an important creature on the other side, then attack on my turn. If setessan was a sorcery, I would never have bothered testing it, but so far it's been good as a one-of.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
The use of mana dorks has been brought up several times in the past pages. I'm not really against in trying out ideas.. but I can't see what cards should we ramp into besides Coco. And adding too many 4 cmc cards would really change the deck. I remember the discussion from the old Stompy thread that it's not possible to add more than 1 Thrun because it will be a fatal slowdown. If you're really up to using manadorks, then try using them and report back here on how it goes.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Board stalls are a corner case scenerio? I guess they really don't happen much in your store.
And I never said Setessan is preferable to dismember. Have one Setessan in the main as an additional removal to Dismember, and Setessan is still being tested.. I'm not saying it's an auto-include in the deck.
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In theory, in match-ups such as merfolk, elves, and even affinity, this could prove to be useful. We have a good collection of creatures that are cmc to p/t efficient and although I hate the part of that card that says "Tap:", I would rather tap my creatures than die horribly to, say, double Elvish Champions. However, this card is falsely advertising card advantage, I think: Sure we can kill two or more creatures with this and we do not lose life, but we still need two creatures to kill two creatures and three to kill three, etc., so I say we can try it as a 1-off in the 60 for a time and see how it goes. I wish we had 1 mana Monstrous Onslaught or a 1 mana instant Nature's Way instead but that's too much I guess.
Also, don't forget that Rhonas can't attack or block alone but can fight till the morning light : P
And the guy who says "splash a color with fetches or your mono color deck is bad": Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated. You have reminded us of something we had long forgotten.
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
I think the only pretender is you. You have branded us as spikes and mentioned disparaging comments against budget only players in the past. However I believe the intentions of these comments were not against the players but the notion to refuse to try and optimize. Why can't we do both? By allowing us to try and play and discuss Mono Green Stompy and make it the best it can be while still having budget options. I don't see why that's bad at all or pointless. How can you pretend to try and call us Spikes and exclusive when we have been inclusive of budget options. You cannot say the same after you have bashed our intentions several times discourteously while muttering "but you can play what you like" in the end. Please try to see your hypocrisy. Mention we have a "spike exclusive mentality or get out" but you have the reverse "budget only mentality or get out".
You have literally said nothing new in your ramblings. I don't have to remind you, adding fetches to the this deck still makes it pretty dang budget in Modern. If you are so fervently stuck on budget, I'd suggest you not play Steel Leaf Champion either because it is at a nice 5 dollars a pop which is probably more expensive than half the deck if you are playing budget.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Dryad Militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Steel Leaf Champion
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
4 Rancor
Land
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
12 Forest
2 Treetop Village
Instant
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Aspect of Hydra
2 Dismember
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
2 Pithing Needle
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Back to Nature
3 Natural State
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Heroic Intervention
1 Creeping Corrosion
Not too fond of the weak SB against control but it seems BW control has been sloping downwards in popularity anyways, so I shored up other matchups instead.
Notably, I added 6 fetches and a full playset of Narnams and Steel Leaf, removed all Leatherbacks, went down to a single Rhonas, went -1 Blossoming Defense +1 Vines of Vastwood, and opted to run 20 lands to vibe with the lowered curve and to make room for 4 Narnams. I wish I could run 4 Aspects but I just can't make room.
Thoughts?
Also, can we talk about optimal lines of play? I never know if its better to get out Geist, Avatar, or Scooze first. I know that playing Haste creatures last allows for more damage over turns, but if I can get an Undying counter before I play Avatar, he comes out stronger. I also hate running out Scooze into removal just for the Evolve trigger.
Normally, I hold up Avatar if I think I can get two counters on him, otherwise I play Avatar on curve, and Geist last. My reasoning there is playing Geist after even Steel Leaf and Rhonas allows for the max possible damage over turns, and he is also the most resilient to removal/board wipes. A pair of Geists coming down after a board wipe has won me quite a few games.
I also will play out all E1 before any creatures that evolve them, not sure if this is correct or if I should just try to get one out and then move up the curve...
Again, I'm really not sure that my reasoning is optimal and I would really like to get the best possible damage per turn sorted out.
What do you guys think are our optimal lines of play for the earliest possible kill? When to play Aspect? Best targets for Rancor?
With the 2-drops, I would say that Scooze works a bit differently, in that you can see it as a 3-drop. When you play Scooze, you almost always want to have a mana open to (at least) eat one card, either at your opponent's end step, or in response to him being removed.
Other than that, I'd say your list looks good! The only thing I would change maindeck is adding Horizon Canopy, but I understand if that is a budget problem.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread