If we include manadorks I support a build with Smuggler's Copter. It gives something for the dorks to do in the late game, and it lets us topdeck better if we're looting every turn. So yeah, the manadorks would replace Experiment One to avoid anti-synergistic combinations of cards. I don't know who said it, but it would make us like the Death and Taxes build using Smuggler's Copter.
I don't really get the Smuggler's Copter use for stompy and moreso how using 1cc mana dorks makes it better. If using mana dork then want to use it to ramp, copter is 2cc and then if you crew with dork you lose ability to gain mana. If you want evasion I think this deck wants to do that through trample/pump. The only real value it gives is providing sort of a pseudo-haste effect. Also for devotion build it provides 0 G.
My perspective is if you want to rationalize using 1CC mana dork you probably also need to be either using Collected Company or splashing R for Bloodbraid Elf, something to negate the threat density loss. Especially if you cut experiment one as then only geist can provide value in attrition matchup.
Cutting the experiment one is interesting though, only question is does that lead to abandoning +1/+1 subtheme or just doubling down with renegade being the replacement for those already not using (bye bye budget version)? How does that end up affecting Avatar of the Resolute mathematically? Feels like mana ramp option will want more 3CC options and run coco main, and more cards like thrun in SB imo. And overall seems rancor effects and Aspect of Hydra need to add enough value to out-compete a R/G BBE value deck. Personally I think until its proven to be less powerful than it seems new deck ideas should center around 4x Steel Leaf Champion just like so many other deck archetypes are working around 4x BBE.
Lastly I think there is reason to suspect there may be a solid 1 / 2CC creature card in the not yet spoiled Dominaria portion. Champion appears to be part of a 5 card set of triple mono color. But we also saw for example a new pseudo version of white knight / black knight. Should be interesting...
Since we're talking about 3 drops. Has anyone tried Thrashing Brontodon as a one-of? Slightly weaker than a baloth. but 4 toughness still makes it bolt proof.. and it's a maindeck answer to things like Ensnaring bridge, inkmoth nexus, cranial plating, chalice of the void, and walking ballista. Or is this dinosaur card too weak for Modern?
I think it was discussed as not too weak but more too unwieldy in the last thread. In the current build of the deck a 4 mana disenchant was deemed as just too slow for the decks various needs. In maybe a mana dork build that might not be as a issue and could be seen as a pair of or 1 main, 1 side for unexpected issues that could crop up while still having reach if not needed.
Personaly, I think it's too weak. You're supposed to choose one, naturalize or get a good creature. Thrashing Brontodon is not the kind of card you want to be sacrificing. If you want to attach a naturalize effect to a creature, try Manglehorn. I like Manglehorn in some matchups, but I'm sure some people here will tell you that even that is a bad card, which might be the case.
The Thrashing Brontodon is a good creature for its CMC. However, I agree with MaxWB; it is not both things but one of the things and that makes it weaker than ETB creatures like reclamation sage in the utility game and sage is not an efficient beater,so we don't play either. In our deck we always need to find creatures that are "both things"= body to beat with + utility to cripple/hate as are the cases for a lot of our creatures like Dryad, Avatar, Dungrove, Scooze (I will risk being quoted, go ahead and say that "Hexproof is removal hate!" lol). If there existed cards that cared about controlling basic lands and/or had an effect that was based on their counts on the BF, we could use them. Same is true for devotion. We could play something like:
1GG: 3/4, Verdant Stomperhowler
When Verdant Stomphowler ETB, destroy target artifact or enchantment if [you control three basic forests]/[your devotion to green is 4 or more], etc.
It could be an activated ability as well: [Return a basic forest to your hand: destroy target artifact or enchantment]. There is a lot of unexplored design space revolving around budget play.
P.S: I played at another small event again today. 12 players, proxies allowed. I will report later but things didn't go well this time (4 games, 2 losses to two very green decks, 1 win against a dredge variant, 1 draw to UR storm :D).
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
A hilarious out-of-the-sideboard option: Viridian Corruptor? In our deck full of Vines, Rancors, and Aspects, the opponent must play with constant fear that that little infecter could be a one hit killer if it goes unblocked. Better devotion support than Reclamation Sage or Viridian Shaman or Manglehorn, too.
its not bad but you cant play it and pithing needle from the SB together since if you pith first the corrupter is a must not a may and you might kill your own pith. Not a huge thing mind when your likely going to use it against affinity or something of it like but it is something to be aware of.
Ok, based on people's responses I guess the Thrashing Brontodon doesn't make the cut into the our deck.
Another question to the members here. If you have to add one of them to your deck,, which would you add.. a Rhonas or a Ghalta, Primal Hunger? I have been undecided which one of these legendary creatures to use.. Rhonas is easier to cast and resistant to boardwipes + terminate, but having him does not put as much pressure as having a 12/12 ghalta. Ghalta is harder to get onto the battlefield and uncastable as a topdeck on an empty board, but once he hits the board and not killed.. he is a two turn clock.
Rhonas seems better most of the time. Ghalta can theoretically come in on turn 3 in the ramp build, but most of the time when it's playable, your opponent was already in Wrath-or-lose situation.
Yeah Rhonas is better in a vacuum since its easier to manipulate another creature into the 5/? state it needs to animate. With Steel Leaf coming this becomes even more relevant. On the other hand Ghalta as a singleton in this deck swings like a left hook for the unwary. I would literally never put more than a pair of him in though considering the board state turns into win more and wrath very easy when he hits the field. If he gets considered for more depth Heroic Intervention might be a considered SB/MB card to stymie such things
And yeah, I would definitely go for Rhonas as well. It's a bit more safe, a strong mana sink and isn't a dead card if you play against a removal heavy deck.
Thanks for the replies. Reasonable enough opinions. I guess you guys saved me some money... already have a Rhonas in hand, but no Ghalta... since Rhonas seems better, there's no need to buy the dinosaur anymore.
Eh I'm actually going to throw one ghalta into the base of this deck personally. A 1 off $3.50 isn't that bad for a throw in that can randomly end things. Doesn't mean I wont put in my two Rhonas though. Will See if its worth it once I get him though. Locally cant find one
@magicyo
Whoops my bad. Guess its been awhile since I read him.
It's a really strange list (Serpo, Tusker and Hunter MB and Sundering Growth SB without any producing token creature card, why?) but I'm glad that Stompy can make good results even with a not optimal list
Seropard has been on my radar, though admittedly more as a SB card than anything main deckable. Also considering what was in the top 8 it was a pretty decent meta choice considering UB faries, and gids control were played. Tusker main and sundering even as SB do seem weird choices though. As well as the pair of E1 that were played instead of the normal playset.
As I think on it Tusker/Hunter was probably only together for devotion mostly. I still feel if your going to do something like that the Garruks companion is much better even with the loss of 1 toughness for the penetration aid that trample provides so you can rancor other creatures. It might not survive some things but it allows you to not all in one basket approach.
Hello, I've been playing with the deck for some time now and I want to know your thoughts on Utopia Sprawl. I've been using as an easy devotion booster and sometimes as an turn 2 baloth,not the best play in the deck but it feels great. With the adition of Steel Leaf Champion I think its viability gets higher.
Ok, based on people's responses I guess the Thrashing Brontodon doesn't make the cut into the our deck.
Another question to the members here. If you have to add one of them to your deck,, which would you add.. a Rhonas or a Ghalta, Primal Hunger? I have been undecided which one of these legendary creatures to use.. Rhonas is easier to cast and resistant to boardwipes + terminate, but having him does not put as much pressure as having a 12/12 ghalta. Ghalta is harder to get onto the battlefield and uncastable as a topdeck on an empty board, but once he hits the board and not killed.. he is a two turn clock.
As much as I like the big dino, I must say that rhonas wins versus ghalta.
1- easier to cast,
2- earlier attack,
3- pumps other guys/double as rancor for a turn,
4- I will say harder to remove because it is only vulnerable to path, whereas ghalta can also die to terminate and other traditional black removal if someone plays, say doom blade or go for the throat. However, rhonas dies to dismember, ghalta dies to 3 dismembers!!!
5- Immune to most mass removal,
So, running Rhonas is better now. If I had one, I would definitely run it over ghalta because it is a team player with expensive rancor ability when necessary and shrugs off most mass removal.
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Personally Id drop baloth altogether once Steel Leaf comes out and max the Steel Leaf. Seven 3cc drops on 18 land is just not gonna work even with sprawl so getting up to 20, 21 land would be a more optimal way to go.
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My perspective is if you want to rationalize using 1CC mana dork you probably also need to be either using Collected Company or splashing R for Bloodbraid Elf, something to negate the threat density loss. Especially if you cut experiment one as then only geist can provide value in attrition matchup.
Cutting the experiment one is interesting though, only question is does that lead to abandoning +1/+1 subtheme or just doubling down with renegade being the replacement for those already not using (bye bye budget version)? How does that end up affecting Avatar of the Resolute mathematically? Feels like mana ramp option will want more 3CC options and run coco main, and more cards like thrun in SB imo. And overall seems rancor effects and Aspect of Hydra need to add enough value to out-compete a R/G BBE value deck. Personally I think until its proven to be less powerful than it seems new deck ideas should center around 4x Steel Leaf Champion just like so many other deck archetypes are working around 4x BBE.
Lastly I think there is reason to suspect there may be a solid 1 / 2CC creature card in the not yet spoiled Dominaria portion. Champion appears to be part of a 5 card set of triple mono color. But we also saw for example a new pseudo version of white knight / black knight. Should be interesting...
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
EDIT: Okay yeah someone already covered it.
1GG: 3/4, Verdant Stomperhowler
When Verdant Stomphowler ETB, destroy target artifact or enchantment if [you control three basic forests]/[your devotion to green is 4 or more], etc.
It could be an activated ability as well: [Return a basic forest to your hand: destroy target artifact or enchantment]. There is a lot of unexplored design space revolving around budget play.
P.S: I played at another small event again today. 12 players, proxies allowed. I will report later but things didn't go well this time (4 games, 2 losses to two very green decks, 1 win against a dredge variant, 1 draw to UR storm :D).
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Another question to the members here. If you have to add one of them to your deck,, which would you add.. a Rhonas or a Ghalta, Primal Hunger? I have been undecided which one of these legendary creatures to use.. Rhonas is easier to cast and resistant to boardwipes + terminate, but having him does not put as much pressure as having a 12/12 ghalta. Ghalta is harder to get onto the battlefield and uncastable as a topdeck on an empty board, but once he hits the board and not killed.. he is a two turn clock.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
And yeah, I would definitely go for Rhonas as well. It's a bit more safe, a strong mana sink and isn't a dead card if you play against a removal heavy deck.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
@magicyo
Whoops my bad. Guess its been awhile since I read him.
_____________________
On another thing. I saw a recent Mono Green Stompy list that did well last March 11.
No dismembers, 4 Tuskers, and one Serpopard in the main.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18752&d=317263&f=MO
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
It's a really strange list (Serpo, Tusker and Hunter MB and Sundering Growth SB without any producing token creature card, why?) but I'm glad that Stompy can make good results even with a not optimal list
G Mono Green Stompy G
UR UR Delver Prowess UR
URBGrixis DelverURB
RBWMardu PyromancerRBW
As I think on it Tusker/Hunter was probably only together for devotion mostly. I still feel if your going to do something like that the Garruks companion is much better even with the loss of 1 toughness for the penetration aid that trample provides so you can rancor other creatures. It might not survive some things but it allows you to not all in one basket approach.
Here is my list:
3x Avatar of the Resolute
3x Dryad Militant
4x Experiment One
3x Leatherback Baloth
3x Narnam Renegade
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Steel Leaf Champion
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Aspect of Hydra
4x Vines of Vastwood
Enchantment (8)
4x Rancor
4x Utopia Sprawl
Land (18)
16x Forest
2x Treetop Village
2x Beast Within
2x Dismember
2x Heroic Intervention
2x Life Goes On
2x Manglehorn
1x Prowling Serpopard
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Unravel the Aether
I pushed beast within to the side board, and went down 1 rhonas for the champion. So what do you guys think?
As much as I like the big dino, I must say that rhonas wins versus ghalta.
1- easier to cast,
2- earlier attack,
3- pumps other guys/double as rancor for a turn,
4- I will say harder to remove because it is only vulnerable to path, whereas ghalta can also die to terminate and other traditional black removal if someone plays, say doom blade or go for the throat. However, rhonas dies to dismember, ghalta dies to 3 dismembers!!!
5- Immune to most mass removal,
So, running Rhonas is better now. If I had one, I would definitely run it over ghalta because it is a team player with expensive rancor ability when necessary and shrugs off most mass removal.
I still want to run ghalta with mercy killing or fling or rite of consumption
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid