Sorry, i was doing a lot of things and i couldn't post my list. This deck right here won a 48 tournament in Santiago de Chile, so if u can try it u should, it's pretty powerful. I know i said hazoret was good and it is, but i haven't tried that list in a competitive league yet. I will report soon.
lastly in your 75 yoru running 4 dismember, i would keep this to two and add in 2 fight style removal effect (Nature's Way is normally considered the best option for a third dismember) the reason for this is after casing 2 dismembers you have lost 8 life which is a huge amount to loose and very hard to make up after three you've lost 12 and if you ever manage to cast all 4 your life will be on 4 which isn't a great place to win from
Playing shocks to make dismember cheaper requires you to play that shockland tapped. Also, Abrupt Decay or Fatal Push can only kill Tarmogoyf from the creatures I listed, Path to Exile deals with any of them but going 2 colors would change the deck completely. WG value and BG rock are both better than Gx Stompy.
For fight cards the problem is mana efficiency. I don't think any of the 2 mana cards is usable, they slow down your gameplay a lot. For example I want to be able to cast Narnam on turn 1, equip rancor on turn 2 and hold up 1 green for dismember or vines. But also it depends on the meta a lot I guess.
I want to thank everyone for their responses, especially amicdeep, who basically went point by point and answered all my questions.
Part of the reason I tended towards the mana producers was that (a) it's traditional in green (but there are exceptions to every rule, (b) it's highly effective in Legacy (but we lack Winter Orb), (c) it allows me to play with less land (but still cause mulligan and disruption vulnerability), and (d) is potentially more explosive (at a cost of threat density).
It looks like dropping the mana producers and maybe adding two Treetop Village and 4 Dryad Militant may still be better. I wonder if 10 1-dropa is enough, though it probably is.
I appreciate the explanation of VoV as a disruptive element. I actually hadn't thought of it, and it's rather clever. I also clearly undervalued Militant; I've rarely played Stompy competitively, but that error is clear in retrospect given what I have seen in the field.
Rhonas certainly seems interesting, though I worry that he might be a win-more, especially with Steel Leaf Champion coming along. He's probably better than Baloth, but a 3/3 split might make sense with only 6 slots, especially if there's still tons of Meddling Mages out there.
Regarding the SB, most of that advice seems straightforward. I think Pulse and Baloth are cool, but are they really going to do the job against decks where speed is the key? I don't know if 6 life for 3 Mana cuts it against Burn. I feel like Feed the Clan or Life Goes On are just more efficient. If they could only target the opponent, they'd be cool answers against GDS.
I also am of mixed opinions on the removal. I appreciate the argument for only running 2-3 Dismember. I knew about Prey Upon, though Nature's Way is new to me. I've gotten spoiled playing unconditional 1-mana removal, but 2 isn't awful (and if Way isn't good enough, I've probably already lost). It makes me want to consider Savage Punch, but that's also probably too conditional. Should I MD Prey/Way and SB Dismember, or the reverse?
Finally, the idea of dropping below 4x Rancor is pretty foreign to me. It was always a mainstay in my mind as a source of Haste damage, devotion for AoH, and recovery/persistent threats (similar I guess to Rhonas). Is there something I'm missing? Does this have to do with Meddling Mage? Dropping to 3x AoH makes sense (we also have VoV for pump, they're a bad top-deck after Wrath, and one is usually enough to get the job done while two can actually hamper our offense).
Do I have that right? Am I missing anything? Just asking before I take another crack at a build.
Rhonas certainly seems interesting, though I worry that he might be a win-more, especially with Steel Leaf Champion coming along. He's probably better than Baloth, but a 3/3 split might make sense with only 6 slots, especially if there's still tons of Meddling Mages out there.
Regarding the SB, most of that advice seems straightforward. I think Pulse and Baloth are cool, but are they really going to do the job against decks where speed is the key? I don't know if 6 life for 3 Mana cuts it against Burn. I feel like Feed the Clan or Life Goes On are just more efficient. If they could only target the opponent, they'd be cool answers against GDS.
I also am of mixed opinions on the removal. I appreciate the argument for only running 2-3 Dismember. I knew about Prey Upon, though Nature's Way is new to me. I've gotten spoiled playing unconditional 1-mana removal, but 2 isn't awful (and if Way isn't good enough, I've probably already lost). It makes me want to consider Savage Punch, but that's also probably too conditional. Should I MD Prey/Way and SB Dismember, or the reverse?
One more tip about Dryad.. if opponent kills it with a lightning bolt, the bolt would get exiled even if it killed the dryad. I also used to think that D ryad is unimportant to the deck.. but changed my mind after Grixis snapcaster decks appeared in my meta. At least 3 in the 75 is good, with an argument for 4 if you're in a snapcaster meta.
Rhonas is more like an equipment. If an opponent wipes the board and you topdeck Rhonas, then he's a dead card. But on other occasions, in aggro vs aggro.. and the opponent can't remove all your guys.. Rhonas kicks butt, his ability gives "rancor" to another creature, and he's a 5/5 death touch monster.
In my experience... Prey Upon is unusable.. sorcery cannot kill manlands, and opponent can respond by removing the creature. I use dismembers instead.
Has anyone come up on Bogles? Other than their Kor, we cannot use vines to stop them from casting enchants, and they just grow so much faster. Once they get that enchant which gives their creature protection from other creatures, its GG. I have yet to beat one.
I'm thinking Back to Nature is a natural SB answer but I'm wondering if anyone has thought of anything more interesting, maybe something that removes hexproof, or grants shroud, or otherwise disrupts their boardstate strategy.
Also, on the topic of sideboarding against burn/Jund, I think 3x Kitchen finks is the best all around answer. Baloth is better against Jund but expensive to cast against Burn, and the lifegain spells are nice but each Finks nets 4 health on its own, and comes with a body which discourages blocking much in the way of Strootgeist.
While we don't get to discard finks onto the battlefield like Baloth, we do get the persist+lifegain against Liliana's neg. Plus we still have Needle to deal with walkers, and the Sorcerous Spyglass is a new one on me. Interestingly, the way it reads seems to allude that you can look at their hand, and nameany card, even one not in their hand, which seems like a straight upgrade from Needle to me.
1x Pulse of Murasa and 2x Finks might be a good mix as well, to try for a shot at getting another Finks back with a lifegain uppercut on top.
Back to Nature is the best sideboard card against them, but it's very narrow... so only if you expect to face plenty of Bogles player. If your Stompy is on 22 lands.. then Fracturing Gust can also be usable. You can surprise them with it, since it's an instant. Ratchet Bomb can also work, but it is slow.. and it probably won't save you if they are just one or two attacks away from killing you.
I tend to like removal to be one mana AND Instant, so I too prefer Dismember. But I also feel that casting Dismember more than twice a game without native black mana is a long shot, and so keeping it to 2-3 copies makes sense. I wish one of the fight-type effects was instant, but there doesn't seem to be a good, cheap, unconditional one. At least Nature's Way has some added value with Vigilance and Trample.
The sentiment on Rhonas makes sense, but I'm a bit unimpressed with the idea he might just sit there. Rancor provides its own consistent power boost. I feel like these are like to become Steel Leaf Champions for me.
When do you play the Dryad? Like, if you have a hand with Treetop Village, EO, and Dryad Militant, and you're playing against GDS, what order do you prioritize them?
Re: Shocks and Dismember: I guess that approach makes sense if you're already playing fetches, but if I've got fetches, I feel like I'd more likely play one of Path, Bolt, or Push. If you're not already playing fetches, I don't know that it makes sense to add them for this purpose: fetching and shocking once is 3 life, which is almost the natural cost you'd save playing two Dismembers the regular way.
Re: Rhonas: He doesn't survive Path, but he does survive all that other stuff. He really is impressive. My worry is that against a deck with a lot of removal, he will just cease to be a creature at all. I don't know how much I value the Rancor effect versus, well, actual Rancor. I definitely think he's likely to be better than Dungrove Elder, but I'm not sure where he ranks with Leatherback Baloth and Steel Leaf Champion both being options, and likely only 6-8 slots for 3-drops.
Re: Rancor: that makes sense. Meddling Mage and lots of instant speed removal can obviously both be problems here. I guess the same problem applies to AoH. This probably also increases the appeal of Rhonas. Are people managing this by making the extra slot another creature, or Blossoming Defense?
Also, based on your insights, how does the following list look?
Match 4 – Storm 2-1 – on the draw
Game 1: I kept a 1 forest, 1 fetchland, Treetop Village, 2xAvatar of the Resolute , Leatherback Baloth. On my first 3 turns I drew e1, then dismember, then another e1. They miss their turn 2 land. I always kept a mana up for dismember and on turn 4 I dismember their Baral, Chief of Compliance as Desperate Ritual is on the stack. They then Grapeshot my 2/2 Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, and 1/1 Experiment One in the wrong order and I ended up having a 3/3 e1, 3/2 geist and 3 lands one of which is treetop, and they being at 9 tapped out.
In: 2x Relic of Progenitus, 2x Prey Upon
Out: 2x Leatherback Baloth, 1x Aspect of Hydra, 1x Experiment One
Game 2: I kept a Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, Dismember, Rancor and 3 lands. Removed their first creature but then drew only lands, they got me on turn 5 at 2 life.
In and Out: no change
Game 3: I kept a 1 fetch + 1 forest, 2x Narnam Renegade, Dryad Militant, Scavenging Ooze and Vines of Vastwood. Didn’t want to expose militant to a removal on turn 1 so I played one of the narnams. By turn 3 I had a narnam, an avatar and a militant and they played Anger of Gods. I lost all my creatures but then built again with another fetch + 2x Narnam Renegades. On their turn 5 they played a creature and passed, on my turn 6 I dropped them down to 6 with narnams and played a Scavenging Ooze with 3 mana up and a 1 card hand which is Vines of Vastwood. They knew about it because of the Opt from previous turn. They bolted my ooze the next turn, I vines it, then they build towards storm count, they didn’t have enough and went for my narnams instead. In 2 turn I got the win with Treetop Village, a 4/4 Scavenging Ooze and enough mana up to eat stuff from gy if needed.
Match 5 – Eldrazi Tron 2-0 – on the play
Game 1: I had a 1 forest + 1 fetch, Narnam Renegade, 2x Strangleroot Geist, 2x Aspect of Hydra hand on 7, which can be quite explosive against lots of decks, so I kept. They couldn’t find their second land on turn 2. I drew into double Dryad Militants, they Warping Wailed my geist on their turn 3 but double aspect had them dead on turn 4.
In: 2x Natural State, 2x Deglamer, 2x Pithing Needle
Out: 3x Dryad Militant, 2xVines of Vastwood, Leatherback Baloth
Game 2: I had a good hand with 2 Avatar of Resolutes, Experiment One, 3 lands and a Deglamer. The game was similar to game 1 in terms of their removal but this time they had the lands on each turn. However drawing into another E1, another Avatar and a Rancor had the job done on turn 5. I also always had a Deglamer that I never needed.
So, overall I’m quite happy with the performance of the deck. I know the friendly league is not the most competetive place to play but being able to have consistent 4-1s feels good.
Dealing with boggles
Yeah is a doozy of a matchup. You best bet is to stick down a narnam and destroy the enchantments instant speed after attacks but be for blocks (to make them blockable and make the boggle killable with narnam) this pared with aggressive aspect strategys (and hopefully not too much life link. Can help make up the matches but it's still not particularly favourable.
Fracturing gust is just to slow to be truly effective. If it's a big issue in your meta that spellskite is the way to go (make them enchanted your creaters rather than there's )
In my experience, as long as I don't miss a land drop and they don't have the nut draw - Fracturing gust on turn 5 will still make it against Bogles. It's particularly effective because by that time they have several enchantments on the battlefield, and I go up again to 10+ life from everything the gust destroyed. Bogles is a GW deck, they use Path to Exile.. "pte my geist? ok thank you for extra land :)" which means I sometimes can cast F.Gust earlier than turn 5.
I bring these cards in against Bogles ... -4 Dyrad +2 Deglamer + 1 Reclamation Sage + 1 Fracturing Gust and also pray that they don't draw more than one Spiritdancer.
I tend to like removal to be one mana AND Instant, so I too prefer Dismember. But I also feel that casting Dismember more than twice a game without native black mana is a long shot, and so keeping it to 2-3 copies makes sense. I wish one of the fight-type effects was instant, but there doesn't seem to be a good, cheap, unconditional one. At least Nature's Way has some added value with Vigilance and Trample.
The sentiment on Rhonas makes sense, but I'm a bit unimpressed with the idea he might just sit there. Rancor provides its own consistent power boost. I feel like these are like to become Steel Leaf Champions for me.
When do you play the Dryad? Like, if you have a hand with Treetop Village, EO, and Dryad Militant, and you're playing against GDS, what order do you prioritize them?
If I know the opponent is on Grixis Shadow.. a Dryad on Turn one on the play is important, to mess up their first thought scour. Oh, and having 2-3 Scavenging ooze in the main also help if you are in a Grixis Shadow meta. Use ooze to remove Kolaghan's command from their yard.
@phaircaron That's quite the track record. It looks like you're moving towards the Revolt build of our beloved stompy deck. If you're interested in an upgrade path, some cards you might want to look at are:
Green Belt Rampager to trigger Revolt more consistently for Renegade, and make E1 stupidly huge on T2/3. I am currently running him in place of Leatherbacks and have not missed them once. The explosiveness you get from E1 and the ability to pay the cost for a 3 drop spread out between turns is not to be laughed at. Especially since it looks like you're already trying to run lean on lands. I will probably still run 1 of these even after getting the Steel Leaf Champions because it is just that big of a difference in the early turns. One of the biggest differences I've noticed has been, unlike a normal 3 drop, the mana is paid in 3 separate casts. So if the opponent is holding removal/counterspell, they have to decide whether they want to keep me from evolving again but have more open mana for something else, or let me tap out for the 3 drop but get two more evolve triggers out of E1.
Tireless Tracker is a clutch 3 drop in a Revolt deck, with all the landfall the fetchlands give you, you'll be swimming in Clues for card draw and counters on Tracker. Though looking again at how few lands you're running, I would probably only run 1. Plus Scooze is arguably cheaper to get counters for. Tracker just gives you another avenue and more options.
There's a lot of back and forth about Rhonas The Indomitable, but honestly he is an absolute beast, and the best asset this deck has. Attach Rancor to him for extra value.
Nature's Way - thanks to deathtouch, this card turns your Renegades and Rhonas into cheap removal. Not instant speed, but a real monster in its own right. Precombat removal with the added benefit of a trampling deathtoucher to attack with that still gets to block next turn is insane value for 2 mana.
@amicdeep Thanks. I've been playing the deck for almost 3 years and since the printing of Narnam Renegade I was trying to come up with a build that utilizes them as I always needed a 3rd set of 1-drop. On to your suggestions.
Firstly, the key to success with stompy is keeping the deck consistent. Once we start playing cards x and y because "x and y together on the battlefield is strong", the deck falls apart as we don't have any ways to filter and find the cards we are looking for. There are of course plays like "It's better if I play Experiment One first so that I can evolve it later", but even this has exceptions like "I need to play Dryad Militant on turn 1 against this deck". But Greenbelt Rampager feels clunky if it cannot hit the board on early turns with an Experiment One on the battlefield. This is a really serious requirement that we should avoid.
Greenbelt Rampager: I've tried this one for some time, it is good but it serves as a revolt enabler only. I don't want to have a 3/3 Experiment One on turn 2, I want to have any of these:
Tireless Tracker: I've thought a lot about this card, in the end I decided not to include it because of low devotion to Aspect of Hydra and the only 3/2 initial body. However I didn't try it and I want to in the future.
Rhonas the Indomitable: Never tried it as I feel it restricts our gameplay. We need to keep another creature in the battlefield to be able to benefit from this guy. Also, again, only 1 devotion to Aspect of Hydra.
Nature's Way: Never tried this one either as I don't like 2 mana fight cards, I know this is not a fight card but similar. I will give it a shot but I can say I've never felt the need of it.
We already had access to Pit Fight and Pounce. Ancient Animus is only an improvement on those if we make use of the legendary bonus. Then it becomes a less versatile but monogreen Dromoka's Command.
If you want an 1 mana instant speed fight card, Mutant's Prey exists. It's conditional, so it works best in counter heavy builds with cards like Narnam Renegade. It's not the best card, but it hasn't been tested much either.
I personally don't like Hallar. It's a 3/3 for 3, which already is very expensive for a card that dies to Lightning Bolt. Boggart Ram-Gang has got haste, and even that card is overshadowed by other 3-drops that are just better. The trample is nice, obviously, but the other ability is so narrow and only works with Vines of Vastwood. It's also legendary, and I personally wouldn't ever play this in a red splash unless it's specifically built around it.
I've been fiddling with GR Stompy. It has had some success on Modo, largely because Blood Moon is a disruptive card.
Basically the premise is this:
play aggro idiots
moon their mana base
continue to beat face until dead
Most aggro deck are worse than affinity or burn or not disruptive enough to validate their existence. Humans, for example, is disruptive and maintains a quick clock. A deck like this hopes to do the same.
Magus and Moon do the same thing but you want to split the difference, especially if people are playing Slagstorm variants.
This deck floods easily, which is why we're fairly top heavy for 21 lands.
Think Simian Spirit Guide is a good move for that build? Landing a Blood Moon one turn sooner can make all the difference in the world, and you've got enough creatures with generic or red in the casting costs that you can just use it to speed out a threat in worst case.
@Phaircaron:
Great to see the deck steamroll so many other decks like that. Actually when I had first put my stompy deck together, I had four verdant catacombs and a dryad arbor and I used to use it to surprise block Dark Confidants, mana dorks, and chump big dumb things out of nowhere. I like reading reports like that as it gives a lot of insight to how other decks play against ours and how it shows that they are beatable with a few variations and good plays. If the fetches are the key to those victories perhaps we can try them out again. Like I said, I originally ran them in my first iteration of the deck.
@JorgeVyarza:
I am very much interested in your sideboard choices so looking forward to that report. I thought of going the GR way more than once before (actually nearly every year), but was always turned off by the shockland damage and I am seeing you were also afraid of it judging by the split between Stomping Grounds/Cinder Glade (I don't think that is a budget decision at this point with all the moons and fetches). Looks like playtesting this list will be a lot of fun!
@Lugger:
There is a lot of facebeating synergy and disruption. I especially like the hazoret in the sb. which reminds me of cursed scroll somehow. However, the fetch damage seems intimidating. I know the deck runs only one Dismember, but I would -1 the magus and +1 the scooze, anyway. And the inclusion of Thundermaw (even with 4x noble) tells me you got chumped a lot by spirit tokens. But I don't know your deck, and it is is so full of surprises, and the dragon has haste so I cannot really oppose it. Like I said of Jorge's deck: looks fun. Though his looks a bit more streamlined and yours looks even more exciting to play because of the randomness that Bloodbraid brings.
The fetches vs. no fetches / non-budget vs. budget issue:
If you want to playtest the deck with fetches borrow them or proxy them for RL play, see if they really suit your play style or build. Online testing should not be a problem.
In the past, I advocated that new players would be turned off by fetches and I still think the same. On top of that, I think that the mono green version has been baited (greenwheel, rabblebelt elephant, the reverse rogue elephant, etc.)and supported (Scavenging Ooze in the core set, Avatar of the Resolute in Khans, and now Steel Leaf Champion in Dominaria) through the years and it will stand its ground again unless a new combo deck like Splinter Twin dominates the meta once more, so there is not a need to splash right now. But there might be versions and splashes and we can call them stompy as long as the deck plays and feels like a stompy deck (cheap beaters, pumps, low land count, cheap disruption in mb. or from sb., etc). If you have the money, it does not matter. I used to think "the more people play it, the hive mind will grow and people will come up with newer ideas to improve it". That was my reasoning, my rationale. Now that I think of it, there are just as many combinations in magic and in a deck like this less so. Some people open up new combinations by adding in a new color? Fine. And if you are constructing your deck solely on the advice of some people on a forum, you should do more playtests and decide for yourself. It all boils down to how much time and money you got, really. Personally, I cannot spend on MtG as much as I used to because basically it got more expensive as I got older and my priorities have changed, but I have friends to borrow from if need be.
Anyway, I feel a bit awkward saying this but I used to terrorize the Magic Workstation and Cockatrice for sooo many hours and people used to ask for decklists a lot, so I might actually be one of the anonymous fathers of this deck. I am no spike and not a competitive level player and the biggest event I have joined was a national's qualifier(???). The last three years, have been a bumpy ride for me and I could not pay a lot of attention to Modern (although we used to play commander regularly) but I wanted this underdog to come on top, so seeing it become popular and on its feet again makes me so happy.
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics, and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.
Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
I've been fiddling with GR Stompy. It has had some success on Modo, largely because Blood Moon is a disruptive card.
Basically the premise is this:
play aggro idiots
moon their mana base
continue to beat face until dead
Most aggro deck are worse than affinity or burn or not disruptive enough to validate their existence. Humans, for example, is disruptive and maintains a quick clock. A deck like this hopes to do the same.
Magus and Moon do the same thing but you want to split the difference, especially if people are playing Slagstorm variants.
This deck floods easily, which is why we're fairly top heavy for 21 lands.
Thoughts?
Looking and checking the cards in the main many times. I think the deck is already good. Fast, hits hard, and disruptive with moon effects. The only advice I could say is to add a few Roast in the sideboard, if your meta has plenty of Tasigur and Angler.
Sorry, i was doing a lot of things and i couldn't post my list. This deck right here won a 48 tournament in Santiago de Chile, so if u can try it u should, it's pretty powerful. I know i said hazoret was good and it is, but i haven't tried that list in a competitive league yet. I will report soon.
I play with 3 Dismembers in main for a long time and I am very happy with that number. I also side 2 Prey Upons as I'm running 8 fetches with Narnam Renegades. The reason for the 3 dismembers is not that I want to cast all 3 of them each game but I want to answer a turn 2 Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Hollow One or Tarmogoyf.
For fight cards the problem is mana efficiency. I don't think any of the 2 mana cards is usable, they slow down your gameplay a lot. For example I want to be able to cast Narnam on turn 1, equip rancor on turn 2 and hold up 1 green for dismember or vines. But also it depends on the meta a lot I guess.
That looks like a good starting point. 22 land is good... since there are so many 3 drops.
Maybe stick one Rhonas in there. He's often useful.. but is a very bad topdeck on an empty board, so I use only one.
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Part of the reason I tended towards the mana producers was that (a) it's traditional in green (but there are exceptions to every rule, (b) it's highly effective in Legacy (but we lack Winter Orb), (c) it allows me to play with less land (but still cause mulligan and disruption vulnerability), and (d) is potentially more explosive (at a cost of threat density).
It looks like dropping the mana producers and maybe adding two Treetop Village and 4 Dryad Militant may still be better. I wonder if 10 1-dropa is enough, though it probably is.
I appreciate the explanation of VoV as a disruptive element. I actually hadn't thought of it, and it's rather clever. I also clearly undervalued Militant; I've rarely played Stompy competitively, but that error is clear in retrospect given what I have seen in the field.
Rhonas certainly seems interesting, though I worry that he might be a win-more, especially with Steel Leaf Champion coming along. He's probably better than Baloth, but a 3/3 split might make sense with only 6 slots, especially if there's still tons of Meddling Mages out there.
Regarding the SB, most of that advice seems straightforward. I think Pulse and Baloth are cool, but are they really going to do the job against decks where speed is the key? I don't know if 6 life for 3 Mana cuts it against Burn. I feel like Feed the Clan or Life Goes On are just more efficient. If they could only target the opponent, they'd be cool answers against GDS.
I also am of mixed opinions on the removal. I appreciate the argument for only running 2-3 Dismember. I knew about Prey Upon, though Nature's Way is new to me. I've gotten spoiled playing unconditional 1-mana removal, but 2 isn't awful (and if Way isn't good enough, I've probably already lost). It makes me want to consider Savage Punch, but that's also probably too conditional. Should I MD Prey/Way and SB Dismember, or the reverse?
Finally, the idea of dropping below 4x Rancor is pretty foreign to me. It was always a mainstay in my mind as a source of Haste damage, devotion for AoH, and recovery/persistent threats (similar I guess to Rhonas). Is there something I'm missing? Does this have to do with Meddling Mage? Dropping to 3x AoH makes sense (we also have VoV for pump, they're a bad top-deck after Wrath, and one is usually enough to get the job done while two can actually hamper our offense).
Do I have that right? Am I missing anything? Just asking before I take another crack at a build.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
One more tip about Dryad.. if opponent kills it with a lightning bolt, the bolt would get exiled even if it killed the dryad. I also used to think that D ryad is unimportant to the deck.. but changed my mind after Grixis snapcaster decks appeared in my meta. At least 3 in the 75 is good, with an argument for 4 if you're in a snapcaster meta.
Rhonas is more like an equipment. If an opponent wipes the board and you topdeck Rhonas, then he's a dead card. But on other occasions, in aggro vs aggro.. and the opponent can't remove all your guys.. Rhonas kicks butt, his ability gives "rancor" to another creature, and he's a 5/5 death touch monster.
In my experience... Prey Upon is unusable.. sorcery cannot kill manlands, and opponent can respond by removing the creature. I use dismembers instead.
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I'm thinking Back to Nature is a natural SB answer but I'm wondering if anyone has thought of anything more interesting, maybe something that removes hexproof, or grants shroud, or otherwise disrupts their boardstate strategy.
Also, on the topic of sideboarding against burn/Jund, I think 3x Kitchen finks is the best all around answer. Baloth is better against Jund but expensive to cast against Burn, and the lifegain spells are nice but each Finks nets 4 health on its own, and comes with a body which discourages blocking much in the way of Strootgeist.
While we don't get to discard finks onto the battlefield like Baloth, we do get the persist+lifegain against Liliana's neg. Plus we still have Needle to deal with walkers, and the Sorcerous Spyglass is a new one on me. Interestingly, the way it reads seems to allude that you can look at their hand, and nameany card, even one not in their hand, which seems like a straight upgrade from Needle to me.
1x Pulse of Murasa and 2x Finks might be a good mix as well, to try for a shot at getting another Finks back with a lifegain uppercut on top.
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I tend to like removal to be one mana AND Instant, so I too prefer Dismember. But I also feel that casting Dismember more than twice a game without native black mana is a long shot, and so keeping it to 2-3 copies makes sense. I wish one of the fight-type effects was instant, but there doesn't seem to be a good, cheap, unconditional one. At least Nature's Way has some added value with Vigilance and Trample.
The sentiment on Rhonas makes sense, but I'm a bit unimpressed with the idea he might just sit there. Rancor provides its own consistent power boost. I feel like these are like to become Steel Leaf Champions for me.
When do you play the Dryad? Like, if you have a hand with Treetop Village, EO, and Dryad Militant, and you're playing against GDS, what order do you prioritize them?
Re: Shocks and Dismember: I guess that approach makes sense if you're already playing fetches, but if I've got fetches, I feel like I'd more likely play one of Path, Bolt, or Push. If you're not already playing fetches, I don't know that it makes sense to add them for this purpose: fetching and shocking once is 3 life, which is almost the natural cost you'd save playing two Dismembers the regular way.
Re: Rhonas: He doesn't survive Path, but he does survive all that other stuff. He really is impressive. My worry is that against a deck with a lot of removal, he will just cease to be a creature at all. I don't know how much I value the Rancor effect versus, well, actual Rancor. I definitely think he's likely to be better than Dungrove Elder, but I'm not sure where he ranks with Leatherback Baloth and Steel Leaf Champion both being options, and likely only 6-8 slots for 3-drops.
Re: Rancor: that makes sense. Meddling Mage and lots of instant speed removal can obviously both be problems here. I guess the same problem applies to AoH. This probably also increases the appeal of Rhonas. Are people managing this by making the extra slot another creature, or Blossoming Defense?
Also, based on your insights, how does the following list look?
4 Experiment One
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dryad Militant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
3 Rancor
Land
2 Treetop Village
19 Forest
Instant
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Dismember
Sorcery
2 Nature's Way
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Unravel the Aether
4 Life Goes On
1 Dismember
I feel like I want more 1-drops, and really am still iffy on the Rhonas.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
4x Dryad Militant
4x Narnam Renegade
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Avatar of the Resolute
2x Leatherback Baloth
4x Rancor
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Aspect of Hydra
3x Treetop Village
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Dryad Arbor
9x Forest
1x Torpor Orb
2x Pithing Needle
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Prey Upon
2x Natural State
2x Deglamer
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Dungrove Elder
1x Pulse of Murasa
1x Feed the Clan
I’ve had a 3-2, 3x 4-1s and a 5-0 (which I have a summary below).
3-2:
UW Emeria 2-0
Bogles 2-1
Eldrazi Tron 1-2
Jund 2-0
RG Valakut 1-2
4-1:
Mono Green Tron 0-2
Temur Marvel 2-1
Mono Blue Tron 2-0
RG (Courser of Kruphix, Utopia Strawl, Tireless Tracker, Inferno Titan, Huntmaster of the Fells etc.) 2-0
RG (very similar with above + Chandra, Torch of Defiance) 2-1
4-1:
Mono Blue Tron 2-1
Bogles 2-1
UW Spirits 0-2
Merfolk 2-1
Jeskai Control (I guess without JtMS) 2-0
4-1:
Bloodbraid Ponza 2-0
Bloodbraid Jund 1-2
BR Hollow One 2-0
Boros Burn 2-0
Eldrazi Tron 2-1
And then the last league:
Match 1 – Mono red burn 2-0 – on the draw
Game 1 – I mulled a one Treetop Village 7, then got a 2x Treetop Village+a Forest, with Aspect of Hydra, Rancor and Dismember. Thought I was doomed, kept it, scry’ed Avatar of the Resolute on top. Guess the opponent had a slow hand and killed them on turn 5.
In: Feed the Clan, Pulse of Murasa, Dungrove Elder
Out: 3xDismember
Game 2 – I kept a 2 lands hand with a 1-drop, 2x 3-drops, vines and Feed the Clan. The opponent tapped out for Skullcrack at the end of my turn 4 when I was at 6 and had Leatherback Baloth in play and Feed the Clan in hand. It was basically game over there as I was at 13 with them at 2 cards.
Match 2 – Eldrazi Tron 2-0 – on the play
Game 1 – I kept a 2x Dryad Militant, Aspect of Hydra, Vines of Vastwood, Treetop Village + 2 lands. Once I realized they were on some kind of tron I tried to get in damage as quick as possible (like turn 1 militant, turn 2 militant + aspect, turn 3 treetop + vines). Killed their Endbringer with another Aspect of Hydra on turn 4. They didn’t draw another big one so I had game 1.
In: 2x Natural State, 2x Deglamer, 2x Pithing Needle
Out: 2x Scavenging Ooze, 4x Vines of Vastwood
Game 2 – I had a 2 fetchland + militant + 3x Avatar of the Resolute, hand, which is great against a Chalice of the Void on 1. I played militant and then on their turn 2 they played the chalice on 1. They had a Walking Ballista and 2x Warping Wails from what I saw but drawing into Treetop Village and Strangleroot Geist in turns 3 and 4 helped me get the win.
Match 3 – Jund 2-1 – on the draw
Game 1 – I kept a 2 fetch lands + Dryad Arbor, Dryad Militant, Avatar of the Resolute, Strangleroot Geist and a Aspect of Hydra hand, which is almost perfect. They Collective Brutality’ed my militant and played a Scavenging Ooze on turn 3. Then they made the mistake of blocking my geist, planning to eat militant from gy, I casted Aspect of Hydra that I drew on turn 2, traded with the scooze, then played Narnam Renegade with revolt and had 1 mana up for Vines of Vastwood. On their 4th turn they Bloodbraid Elf into Abrupt Decay onto my +1/+1 countered geist, I protected with vines and they didn’t attack. On my next turn I drew aspect, played the Dryad Arbor and Avatar of the Resolute, and attacked, they blocked my geist which i pumped with aspect. At this point they had 4 lands + 4 cards and at 14, I had no cards in hand but a creature land, narnam, geist and avatar in play. They played Liliana of the Veil and made me sac the creature land. In the remaining two turns I ignored Lili, drew a Dismember for their Tarmogoyf they didn’t have enough removal.
In: Pulse of Murasa, 2x Pithing Needle, Thrun, the Last Troll, Dungrove Elder
Out: 2x Rancor, 3x Aspect of Hydra
Game 2 – I had Strangleroot Geist, Scavenging Ooze, Pulse of Murasa + 4 non-treetop lands. I said not bad and kept. I drew 4 lands then vines and 2x narnams in the coming turns but their Scavenging Ooze and Liliana of the Last Hope took the game in the long run.
In: 1x Aspect of Hydra, 1x Prey Upon
Out: 2x Pithing Needle
Game 3 – I kept a 1 forest, Treetop Village, Prey Upon, Dismember, Narnam Renegade, Strangleroot Geist, Avatar of the Resolute . Played the manland and passed. Opponent double Lightning Bolted my turn 2 geist, and played a Tarmogoyf on turn 3, which I Prey Uponed with a 1/2 narnam. With revolt I played another narnam to grow my Experiment One to a 3/3. Until turn 6 we both had 2 lands, but by then I had played 2x Avatar of the Resolutes. They played a Scavenging Ooze on turn 5 and Maelstrom Pulsed the avatars on turn 6 after playing a land. Though I had enough creatures to push through with a Dismember still in hand.
Match 4 – Storm 2-1 – on the draw
Game 1: I kept a 1 forest, 1 fetchland, Treetop Village, 2xAvatar of the Resolute , Leatherback Baloth. On my first 3 turns I drew e1, then dismember, then another e1. They miss their turn 2 land. I always kept a mana up for dismember and on turn 4 I dismember their Baral, Chief of Compliance as Desperate Ritual is on the stack. They then Grapeshot my 2/2 Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, and 1/1 Experiment One in the wrong order and I ended up having a 3/3 e1, 3/2 geist and 3 lands one of which is treetop, and they being at 9 tapped out.
In: 2x Relic of Progenitus, 2x Prey Upon
Out: 2x Leatherback Baloth, 1x Aspect of Hydra, 1x Experiment One
Game 2: I kept a Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, Dismember, Rancor and 3 lands. Removed their first creature but then drew only lands, they got me on turn 5 at 2 life.
In and Out: no change
Game 3: I kept a 1 fetch + 1 forest, 2x Narnam Renegade, Dryad Militant, Scavenging Ooze and Vines of Vastwood. Didn’t want to expose militant to a removal on turn 1 so I played one of the narnams. By turn 3 I had a narnam, an avatar and a militant and they played Anger of Gods. I lost all my creatures but then built again with another fetch + 2x Narnam Renegades. On their turn 5 they played a creature and passed, on my turn 6 I dropped them down to 6 with narnams and played a Scavenging Ooze with 3 mana up and a 1 card hand which is Vines of Vastwood. They knew about it because of the Opt from previous turn. They bolted my ooze the next turn, I vines it, then they build towards storm count, they didn’t have enough and went for my narnams instead. In 2 turn I got the win with Treetop Village, a 4/4 Scavenging Ooze and enough mana up to eat stuff from gy if needed.
Match 5 – Eldrazi Tron 2-0 – on the play
Game 1: I had a 1 forest + 1 fetch, Narnam Renegade, 2x Strangleroot Geist, 2x Aspect of Hydra hand on 7, which can be quite explosive against lots of decks, so I kept. They couldn’t find their second land on turn 2. I drew into double Dryad Militants, they Warping Wailed my geist on their turn 3 but double aspect had them dead on turn 4.
In: 2x Natural State, 2x Deglamer, 2x Pithing Needle
Out: 3x Dryad Militant, 2xVines of Vastwood, Leatherback Baloth
Game 2: I had a good hand with 2 Avatar of Resolutes, Experiment One, 3 lands and a Deglamer. The game was similar to game 1 in terms of their removal but this time they had the lands on each turn. However drawing into another E1, another Avatar and a Rancor had the job done on turn 5. I also always had a Deglamer that I never needed.
So, overall I’m quite happy with the performance of the deck. I know the friendly league is not the most competetive place to play but being able to have consistent 4-1s feels good.
From the packs of the 5-0 I got one invocation Blood Moon, one Infernal Tutor and one Azusa, Lost but Seeking, which I sold immediately.
In my experience, as long as I don't miss a land drop and they don't have the nut draw - Fracturing gust on turn 5 will still make it against Bogles. It's particularly effective because by that time they have several enchantments on the battlefield, and I go up again to 10+ life from everything the gust destroyed. Bogles is a GW deck, they use Path to Exile.. "pte my geist? ok thank you for extra land :)" which means I sometimes can cast F.Gust earlier than turn 5.
I bring these cards in against Bogles ... -4 Dyrad +2 Deglamer + 1 Reclamation Sage + 1 Fracturing Gust and also pray that they don't draw more than one Spiritdancer.
If I know the opponent is on Grixis Shadow.. a Dryad on Turn one on the play is important, to mess up their first thought scour. Oh, and having 2-3 Scavenging ooze in the main also help if you are in a Grixis Shadow meta. Use ooze to remove Kolaghan's command from their yard.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
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Green Belt Rampager to trigger Revolt more consistently for Renegade, and make E1 stupidly huge on T2/3. I am currently running him in place of Leatherbacks and have not missed them once. The explosiveness you get from E1 and the ability to pay the cost for a 3 drop spread out between turns is not to be laughed at. Especially since it looks like you're already trying to run lean on lands. I will probably still run 1 of these even after getting the Steel Leaf Champions because it is just that big of a difference in the early turns. One of the biggest differences I've noticed has been, unlike a normal 3 drop, the mana is paid in 3 separate casts. So if the opponent is holding removal/counterspell, they have to decide whether they want to keep me from evolving again but have more open mana for something else, or let me tap out for the 3 drop but get two more evolve triggers out of E1.
Tireless Tracker is a clutch 3 drop in a Revolt deck, with all the landfall the fetchlands give you, you'll be swimming in Clues for card draw and counters on Tracker. Though looking again at how few lands you're running, I would probably only run 1. Plus Scooze is arguably cheaper to get counters for. Tracker just gives you another avenue and more options.
There's a lot of back and forth about Rhonas The Indomitable, but honestly he is an absolute beast, and the best asset this deck has. Attach Rancor to him for extra value.
Nature's Way - thanks to deathtouch, this card turns your Renegades and Rhonas into cheap removal. Not instant speed, but a real monster in its own right. Precombat removal with the added benefit of a trampling deathtoucher to attack with that still gets to block next turn is insane value for 2 mana.
Firstly, the key to success with stompy is keeping the deck consistent. Once we start playing cards x and y because "x and y together on the battlefield is strong", the deck falls apart as we don't have any ways to filter and find the cards we are looking for. There are of course plays like "It's better if I play Experiment One first so that I can evolve it later", but even this has exceptions like "I need to play Dryad Militant on turn 1 against this deck". But Greenbelt Rampager feels clunky if it cannot hit the board on early turns with an Experiment One on the battlefield. This is a really serious requirement that we should avoid.
Greenbelt Rampager: I've tried this one for some time, it is good but it serves as a revolt enabler only. I don't want to have a 3/3 Experiment One on turn 2, I want to have any of these:
Tireless Tracker: I've thought a lot about this card, in the end I decided not to include it because of low devotion to Aspect of Hydra and the only 3/2 initial body. However I didn't try it and I want to in the future.
Rhonas the Indomitable: Never tried it as I feel it restricts our gameplay. We need to keep another creature in the battlefield to be able to benefit from this guy. Also, again, only 1 devotion to Aspect of Hydra.
Nature's Way: Never tried this one either as I don't like 2 mana fight cards, I know this is not a fight card but similar. I will give it a shot but I can say I've never felt the need of it.
4x Narnam Renegade
4x Strangleroot Geist
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Grim Lavamancer
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Bloodbraid Elf
3x Ghor-Clan Rampager
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Dismember
1x Roast
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Windswept Heath
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Arid Mesa
3x Stomping Ground
5x Forest
3x Mountain
1x Treetop Village
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Destructive Revelry
1x Fracturing Gust
2x Dire Fleet Daredevil
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Eidolon of the Great Revel
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Hazoret the Fervent
I've been fiddling with GR Stompy. It has had some success on Modo, largely because Blood Moon is a disruptive card.
Basically the premise is this:
play aggro idiots
moon their mana base
continue to beat face until dead
Most aggro deck are worse than affinity or burn or not disruptive enough to validate their existence. Humans, for example, is disruptive and maintains a quick clock. A deck like this hopes to do the same.
Magus and Moon do the same thing but you want to split the difference, especially if people are playing Slagstorm variants.
This deck floods easily, which is why we're fairly top heavy for 21 lands.
Thoughts?
Great to see the deck steamroll so many other decks like that. Actually when I had first put my stompy deck together, I had four verdant catacombs and a dryad arbor and I used to use it to surprise block Dark Confidants, mana dorks, and chump big dumb things out of nowhere. I like reading reports like that as it gives a lot of insight to how other decks play against ours and how it shows that they are beatable with a few variations and good plays. If the fetches are the key to those victories perhaps we can try them out again. Like I said, I originally ran them in my first iteration of the deck.
@JorgeVyarza:
I am very much interested in your sideboard choices so looking forward to that report. I thought of going the GR way more than once before (actually nearly every year), but was always turned off by the shockland damage and I am seeing you were also afraid of it judging by the split between Stomping Grounds/Cinder Glade (I don't think that is a budget decision at this point with all the moons and fetches). Looks like playtesting this list will be a lot of fun!
@Lugger:
There is a lot of facebeating synergy and disruption. I especially like the hazoret in the sb. which reminds me of cursed scroll somehow. However, the fetch damage seems intimidating. I know the deck runs only one Dismember, but I would -1 the magus and +1 the scooze, anyway. And the inclusion of Thundermaw (even with 4x noble) tells me you got chumped a lot by spirit tokens. But I don't know your deck, and it is is so full of surprises, and the dragon has haste so I cannot really oppose it. Like I said of Jorge's deck: looks fun. Though his looks a bit more streamlined and yours looks even more exciting to play because of the randomness that Bloodbraid brings.
The fetches vs. no fetches / non-budget vs. budget issue:
If you want to playtest the deck with fetches borrow them or proxy them for RL play, see if they really suit your play style or build. Online testing should not be a problem.
In the past, I advocated that new players would be turned off by fetches and I still think the same. On top of that, I think that the mono green version has been baited (greenwheel, rabblebelt elephant, the reverse rogue elephant, etc.)and supported (Scavenging Ooze in the core set, Avatar of the Resolute in Khans, and now Steel Leaf Champion in Dominaria) through the years and it will stand its ground again unless a new combo deck like Splinter Twin dominates the meta once more, so there is not a need to splash right now. But there might be versions and splashes and we can call them stompy as long as the deck plays and feels like a stompy deck (cheap beaters, pumps, low land count, cheap disruption in mb. or from sb., etc). If you have the money, it does not matter. I used to think "the more people play it, the hive mind will grow and people will come up with newer ideas to improve it". That was my reasoning, my rationale. Now that I think of it, there are just as many combinations in magic and in a deck like this less so. Some people open up new combinations by adding in a new color? Fine. And if you are constructing your deck solely on the advice of some people on a forum, you should do more playtests and decide for yourself. It all boils down to how much time and money you got, really. Personally, I cannot spend on MtG as much as I used to because basically it got more expensive as I got older and my priorities have changed, but I have friends to borrow from if need be.
Anyway, I feel a bit awkward saying this but I used to terrorize the Magic Workstation and Cockatrice for sooo many hours and people used to ask for decklists a lot, so I might actually be one of the anonymous fathers of this deck. I am no spike and not a competitive level player and the biggest event I have joined was a national's qualifier(???). The last three years, have been a bumpy ride for me and I could not pay a lot of attention to Modern (although we used to play commander regularly) but I wanted this underdog to come on top, so seeing it become popular and on its feet again makes me so happy.
Sorry for the long post here take this:
Cult of the Succubi Eating Kitten and Brotherhood of Hamsters - Zombie One/Hulking One - Brotherhood of Hamsters disapproves of Damage on the Stack amputation, the corruption of Mythics,
and the "Major changes to Extended" in July 2010. You aborted our cards., but we approve of the Modern format. Even if it doesn't ha ve Carrion Feeder or Caller of the Claw in it.Dex: http://deckbox.org/users/Egementium_instructoid
Looking and checking the cards in the main many times. I think the deck is already good. Fast, hits hard, and disruptive with moon effects. The only advice I could say is to add a few Roast in the sideboard, if your meta has plenty of Tasigur and Angler.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread