My thoughts on the discussion are this, Rancor is actually a very useful card to have main since many of our creatures don't have penetration aids like trample or flying natively. Only steel leaf and avatar have any kind of penetration aid and having rancor added to some of our early creatures with a not insignificant amount of power plus the trample ability so that if/when an opponent does start to block you aren't loosing back end damage. Yes there is the 2 for 1 aspect but then there is always going to be a removal argument as well. Additionally if they do destroy a creature with rancor on it before you at the very least are getting a rancor back for another creature.
The problem is not when you stick a Rancor it's if they reply to the Rancor which buries it too.
Dang, I guess I'm in the minority here but I think that Rancor is the best card in the deck and a key reason to play it. It deals more damage than any other single card in nearly every match-up, and is only ever really bad against Chalice Of The Void or a rare Spellskite. I would never play fewer than 4, especially in the lower to the ground zero 3CMC build I've been playing.
@Marl
Yes but the 2 for 1 and dies to removal argument basically make you hinder yourself in some matches to the point of you losing because you play too conservatively.
I mean they can 2 for 1 us when we play aspect of hydra or vines or blossoming in response to us targeting a creature right? We still play them main board. I don't see rancor being that different other than being obvious when we play it.
This game has a whole lotta IF in it. While stompy doesn't have a lot of responses to IF main board unless they are trying to pre kill one of our creatures and even then its has to be in hand when needed which is another IF anyway.
Dang, I guess I'm in the minority here but I think that Rancor is the best card in the deck and a key reason to play it. It deals more damage than any other single card in nearly every match-up, and is only ever really bad against Chalice Of The Void or a rare Spellskite. I would never play fewer than 4, especially in the lower to the ground zero 3CMC build I've been playing.
I'm on your side -- and its that much better with Syr Faren to get massive damage through.
@Marl
Yes but the 2 for 1 and dies to removal argument basically make you hinder yourself in some matches to the point of you losing because you play too conservatively.
I mean they can 2 for 1 us when we play aspect of hydra or vines or blossoming in response to us targeting a creature right? We still play them main board. I don't see rancor being that different other than being obvious when we play it.
This game has a whole lotta IF in it. While stompy doesn't have a lot of responses to IF main board unless they are trying to pre kill one of our creatures and even then its has to be in hand when needed which is another IF anyway.
Not disagreeing with you at all. I was just being a bit pedantic
Dang, I guess I'm in the minority here but I think that Rancor is the best card in the deck and a key reason to play it. It deals more damage than any other single card in nearly every match-up, and is only ever really bad against Chalice Of The Void or a rare Spellskite. I would never play fewer than 4, especially in the lower to the ground zero 3CMC build I've been playing.
I play 4 rancor as well. Not every deck has plenty of removal, had sometimes put 2 rancor on a one drop then attacking for 6 turn 2. Does not matter if they remove the creature after that, the damage was done. Of course, against a removal heavy deck it's the reason we run vines and some builds have blossoming defense. Just have to play smart and know when to protect the casting of rancor, and also know when it's safe to cast it without support from vines and blossoming.
Dang, I guess I'm in the minority here but I think that Rancor is the best card in the deck and a key reason to play it. It deals more damage than any other single card in nearly every match-up, and is only ever really bad against Chalice Of The Void or a rare Spellskite. I would never play fewer than 4, especially in the lower to the ground zero 3CMC build I've been playing.
I play 4 rancor as well. Not every deck has plenty of removal, had sometimes put 2 rancor on a one drop then attacking for 6 turn 2. Does not matter if they remove the creature after that, the damage was done. Of course, against a removal heavy deck it's the reason we run vines and some builds have blossoming defense. Just have to play smart and know when to protect the casting of rancor, and also know when it's safe to cast it without support from vines and blossoming.
Against a good chunk of modern decks you basically have people start at 17 or less life anyways depending on how greedy the manabase they are playing. 11 life your turn 2 can really clock people faster than they anticipate.
Another thought against Rancor is the mentioned speed aspect. I don't think that we need that speed boost that much anymore. We aren't fast enough to fight with the fast linear decks anyways. As nowadays most of them win T3 consistently (Twiddle Storm, Infect). Which is something we cannot do even with Rancor. So we need these decks to miss their T3 win anyways. So replacing them with more ways to make our stuff hard to deal with or more creatures should give us points against the other interactive decks, while loosing points in matches which are already close to unwinnable for us.
I feel the need to point out, that I understand we are bad against linear decks, but Infect isn't one of them. It's actually one of the better match ups. Or at least it used to be a few years ago when it was played before the meta shift. It just requires a slight change to how your play. It's not about racing them, but consistently hitting them while holding blocks back and playing the counterspell game with removal and Vines. Strangleroot in particular is a great creature to hold back.
Another thought against Rancor is the mentioned speed aspect. I don't think that we need that speed boost that much anymore. We aren't fast enough to fight with the fast linear decks anyways. As nowadays most of them win T3 consistently (Twiddle Storm, Infect). Which is something we cannot do even with Rancor. So we need these decks to miss their T3 win anyways. So replacing them with more ways to make our stuff hard to deal with or more creatures should give us points against the other interactive decks, while loosing points in matches which are already close to unwinnable for us.
Its only 4 cards out of 60 and we nearly play 26 creatures or higher. If nothing else what we have in our SB can fit where rancor will anyway as a solution. I mean what can we add to our main deck that's going to affect the liner decks anyways and not screw us over? What 4 cards are going to satisfy the demands of a huge variable meta? I mean if you need to add vines for your meta fine or blossoming, but as a template 4 rancor is a really not horrible idea to help roll over matches quicker or cause a response from a control player.
Dang, I guess I'm in the minority here but I think that Rancor is the best card in the deck and a key reason to play it. It deals more damage than any other single card in nearly every match-up, and is only ever really bad against Chalice Of The Void or a rare Spellskite. I would never play fewer than 4, especially in the lower to the ground zero 3CMC build I've been playing.
I play 4 rancor as well. Not every deck has plenty of removal, had sometimes put 2 rancor on a one drop then attacking for 6 turn 2. Does not matter if they remove the creature after that, the damage was done. Of course, against a removal heavy deck it's the reason we run vines and some builds have blossoming defense. Just have to play smart and know when to protect the casting of rancor, and also know when it's safe to cast it without support from vines and blossoming.
Against a good chunk of modern decks you basically have people start at 17 or less life anyways depending on how greedy the manabase they are playing. 11 life your turn 2 can really clock people faster than they anticipate.
if we lucky enough to hit a burn player for a lot early, they have a hard time with their own eidolon. Of course, we need to be on the play to do this.
I also like rancor against goblins and elves, because they have so many blockers the trample really helps.
multiple rancors help kill Tron quickly before they can bring out something big and scary.
against decks with plenty removal.. we can side out all the rancors for better cards from the sideboard.
Hi guys ! Going to plain the deck again, and was wondering what is our plan against valakut ? Just race them, or do we have something good in the sideboard?
Lovestruck Noble? I don’t see anything after your colon, either it didn’t paste or my mobile browser isn’t showing me what you’re trying to show.
I was curious about that one. Another case of thinking it works not so well in our usual devotion-aspect plan but might have a good home in non-aspect builds. But also thinking that with no inherent trample or evasion, it really would love to wear the rancor, not replace it.
Hi guys ! Going to plain the deck again, and was wondering what is our plan against valakut ? Just race them, or do we have something good in the sideboard?
I can't think of a sideboard option for our deck. So the plan is to just race them.
Hi guys ! Going to plain the deck again, and was wondering what is our plan against valakut ? Just race them, or do we have something good in the sideboard?
it's simply a race if you're mono green. Those with white splash have a few cards that can be boarded in on game 2.
So I finished my testing for Yorvo, Lord of Garenbrig. I played 2 Modern Leagues and approximately 15 queue Matches with him. Half of the games with him as addition to Steel Leaf Champion in a 3/2 Split. And the other half without Steel Leaf and 3 Yorvos.
My conclusion is that he is not better than the elf but also not worse. It's probably a matter of taste if you play him or not. The only thing I found out during the first half of the games is that more than 4 3-drops is probably too much for our deck.
So compared to our elf he lacks the Evasion vs. small Creature Stratgeies but has the advantage that after sticking around one turn he can block bigger creatures where the Steel leaf would trade due to its 4 toughness points. While Yorvo can Block things like Eldrazis, Batterskull, Gurmag Angler, big Tarmogoyfs and sometimes even Death's Shadows.
So for me he will be a meta call from now on if we can expect a Meta with more big creatures. Same as Dungrove Elder is a meta call for removal heavy metas.
I don't like the list's SB at all, though. I changed it significantly and have been pretty satisfied, though still learning what I should board out etc. It's hard to tell what match ups are good and bad with such a small sample size.
The free spells have been perfect for stumbling my opponent and letting me curve out simultaneously. I'm considering a third copy of each.
Life Goes On is boring, but a concession to burn. I'm feeling pretty good about that match with this list, though.
The counter spells have also been awesome, protecting me from the likes of Engineered Explosives out of Amulet Titan and pivotal combo pieces from other decks. Blue mana is manageable through Waterlogged Grove and Noble Hierarch. Playing 6 draw lands feels really good, too.
The problem is not when you stick a Rancor it's if they reply to the Rancor which buries it too.
Yes but the 2 for 1 and dies to removal argument basically make you hinder yourself in some matches to the point of you losing because you play too conservatively.
I mean they can 2 for 1 us when we play aspect of hydra or vines or blossoming in response to us targeting a creature right? We still play them main board. I don't see rancor being that different other than being obvious when we play it.
This game has a whole lotta IF in it. While stompy doesn't have a lot of responses to IF main board unless they are trying to pre kill one of our creatures and even then its has to be in hand when needed which is another IF anyway.
I'm on your side -- and its that much better with Syr Faren to get massive damage through.
Not disagreeing with you at all. I was just being a bit pedantic
I play 4 rancor as well. Not every deck has plenty of removal, had sometimes put 2 rancor on a one drop then attacking for 6 turn 2. Does not matter if they remove the creature after that, the damage was done. Of course, against a removal heavy deck it's the reason we run vines and some builds have blossoming defense. Just have to play smart and know when to protect the casting of rancor, and also know when it's safe to cast it without support from vines and blossoming.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
if we lucky enough to hit a burn player for a lot early, they have a hard time with their own eidolon. Of course, we need to be on the play to do this.
I also like rancor against goblins and elves, because they have so many blockers the trample really helps.
multiple rancors help kill Tron quickly before they can bring out something big and scary.
against decks with plenty removal.. we can side out all the rancors for better cards from the sideboard.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2311050#paper
What do you think ?
I was curious about that one. Another case of thinking it works not so well in our usual devotion-aspect plan but might have a good home in non-aspect builds. But also thinking that with no inherent trample or evasion, it really would love to wear the rancor, not replace it.
I can't think of a sideboard option for our deck. So the plan is to just race them.
There is also a Video available for the 5-0 List if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V6h8z5ylrE
it's simply a race if you're mono green. Those with white splash have a few cards that can be boarded in on game 2.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
My conclusion is that he is not better than the elf but also not worse. It's probably a matter of taste if you play him or not. The only thing I found out during the first half of the games is that more than 4 3-drops is probably too much for our deck.
So compared to our elf he lacks the Evasion vs. small Creature Stratgeies but has the advantage that after sticking around one turn he can block bigger creatures where the Steel leaf would trade due to its 4 toughness points. While Yorvo can Block things like Eldrazis, Batterskull, Gurmag Angler, big Tarmogoyfs and sometimes even Death's Shadows.
So for me he will be a meta call from now on if we can expect a Meta with more big creatures. Same as Dungrove Elder is a meta call for removal heavy metas.
The next Card I'll test is Syr Faren.
I dropped the Blossoming Defense for a third Questing Beast, and dropped down to 1 Treetop Village.
I don't like the list's SB at all, though. I changed it significantly and have been pretty satisfied, though still learning what I should board out etc. It's hard to tell what match ups are good and bad with such a small sample size.
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Dismember
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Force Of Vigor
2 Gut Shot
1 Krosan Grip
2 Life Goes On
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Unified Will
The free spells have been perfect for stumbling my opponent and letting me curve out simultaneously. I'm considering a third copy of each.
Life Goes On is boring, but a concession to burn. I'm feeling pretty good about that match with this list, though.
The counter spells have also been awesome, protecting me from the likes of Engineered Explosives out of Amulet Titan and pivotal combo pieces from other decks. Blue mana is manageable through Waterlogged Grove and Noble Hierarch. Playing 6 draw lands feels really good, too.