Syr Faren, The Hedgehammer is another of those 1-2 of, as hes great 1 of but terrible in multiples. i do think he makes savage swipe even better and i can't wait do use him in the deck.
i don't think we are quite at the stage of needing granddaddy's temple as we don't quite have enough legendaries to justify it. if we get a second leg 2 drop then maybe.
i don't think the serpent is quite there either, as it doesn't do as much as any other card for its mana cost.
the adversary could be good vs jund but i feel like questing beast and discard beloth both do a better job in the matchup.
Keep in mind that our deck has always run powerful 3 drops. And prior to Steel Leaf no one had evasion. Steel Leafs stats alone would have made him played. The Evasion is just an awesome addition. So I think it won't be that much of a downside to play the new 3 drop guy.
The 2 drop seems risky. But the other thing that I see is that we are getting tightened up on our slots. A year ago we were grieving for a better one and two drop. Now we have plenty of options to choose for both.
Hey folks, taking my Mono Green Aggro to the LGS Modern Event tonight, excited to see how it goes.
I definitely look forward to testing Syr Faren once he is available. I came up with a question though,
and I thought, you guys can surely help. Hope you don't mind me asking here
So say I play:
T1 Experiment One
T2 Syr Faren + Attack with E1
T3 I slap Rancor onto Syr Faren and attack with Faren + E1.
Opponent declares no blockers so after that I kick Vines of Vastwood onto Faren.
Will my E1 still get +8 or just +4 for the attack?
I guess it comes down to: Does "whenever this creature attacks" only consider
Faren's strength the moment I declare the attack is it "extended" to include
the +4 from Vines still?
The text on the card says "Whenever Syr Faren attacks", so that happens after declare attackers. If no one reacts to that, the effect happens (so Experiment One gets pumped) and you go to declare blockers.
He only gives the boost when his attack is declared, and doesn't change after that. The boost from Vines doesn't get boosted onto the Experiment One.
imho
-yorvo at least 1 in main, strong sinergy with avatar of the resolute and strangleroot geist he has no evasion but can become very huge,probably i will cut 1 steel leef champion
-syr Faren can double our pump/rancor (beware removal) spells but it's a simple 2/2, need to be tested but i'm not sold yet
-wildborn is a worst mana sink than ooze (need to cast a non-human creature) but have flash that can provide insta-blockers or insta-evo and avoid removal and reach can be relevant in some matchup, i will test it but i think is not good enough ( also ooze give us graveyard hate and life gain )
So as I am playing the deck for some time and have posted here with my other account (for which I unfortunately lost the login data), I just want to mention all cards which could be at least of some interest for us. I will mention the bad choices which would fit us too. Just to point them out, because maybe we are wrong and someone finds success with them, or at least to warn inexperienced players.
Questing Beast this card is worth testing for sure. Even though 4 mana makes it probably borderline as we've seen with other cards before, it has 6 abilities relevant to our deck. While it may not end up in the mainboard I can see it replacing Thrun, the Last Trollin some sideboards.
Yorvo, Lord of Garenbrig this card is a serious contender for Steel Leaf Champion even though it lacks evasion it will have more toughness than our elf the turn he is going to attack the first time and will become scaringly big if he stays on the battlefield for some turns. If it would not be a legendary I could see it as 4 of in the deck maybe even replacing Steel Leaf.
Syr Faren, the Hengehammer this card is tricky to evaluate. While I see it's potential it also is a great risk. If the opponent decides to kill the creatures surrounding him or targeted by him we can easily end up with a bad 2/2. While the legendary rule keeps us from playing him as a playset (which I think is good) this card is probably the hardest to evaluate. It can end up really strong, but it can also prove to be bad. Also the 2 devotion aspect is an upside for us.
Wildborn Preserver this card in my opinion is overrated. Especially because we got so many decent 2 drops now, I don't think that this will make the cut. While the ability seems relevant at first glance, I think the goal of our deck is to curve out as efficiently as possible. And if your follow up to this guy is a 3 drop you cannot use it's ability. So you end up with a 2/2 where you could have 3 Power or hasty 2 Power instead. But the biggest downside I see is that this guy suffers from the same problem as Reverent Hunter: He dies to every common removal spell played in Modern. Therefore I can see our opponents waiting for us to spend our mana on him just to kill him with the ability on the stack, letting us waste a turn worth of mana. I can only see him played as a pseudo 3 drop replacing Steel Leaf Champion and his buddies, which doesn't seem likely. As an additional downside it lacks one devotion which I don't think is made up by his abilities.
Kenrith's Transformation this card is more than welcome in our creature removal suite. While obviously not beating out on dismember it can at least be a substitute to creature based removal spells like Savage Swipe and Nature's Way . While I don't see it in the mainboard it can be a sideboard option. 3/3s are nothing we cannot deal with and it does replace itself so we do not get 2 for 1ed. As it also deals with abilities it could be a sideboard card against problem creatures like Wurmcoil Engine, Death's Shadow, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and many other creatures we otherwise have problems dealing with.
Rosethorn Halberd while being a some kind different version of Rancor I don't see any reason to play this. If the equip cost would be lower it would have a chance. But as it stands the only advantage it has is that it still gives devotion after the equipped creature died. Additionally it would lessen our creature count and make us even more vulnerable to get 2 for 1ed. Considering that we got so many good creatures within the last sets, its probably more likely to replace our Rancors with more creatures instead of adding more versions of them. Considering all the problems mentioned above I would not play it at all.
Wildwood Tracker this guy would be a decent 1 drop one and a half years ago, before we got Pelt Collector and Hexdrinker. It is worth to mention that the only human in our deck is Experiment One therefore it should be a 2/2 most of the time. But sadly he does not grow our evolve creatures due to his strange design. As it stands now it does not make the cut in Modern. While probably being playable in Pauper. There is no reason to play this card unless you are on an ultra budget or just using it as a stopgap while acquiring the better one drops.
So this was my opinion on all cards which can somehow be considered for the deck. As I am writing this post there are 2 green cards not spoilered yet. So I dont expect them to be that much of a gamechanger. But if one of them turns out to be at least somehow playable I'll update this post.
I don't know if you like this post or not but I had a fun time writing it. So if you don't mind I'd like to do this for future sets too.
So as I am playing the deck for some time and have posted here with my other account (for which I unfortunately lost the login data), I just want to mention all cards which could be at least of some interest for us. I will mention the bad choices which would fit us too. Just to point them out, because maybe we are wrong and someone finds success with them, or at least to warn inexperienced players.
Questing Beast this card is worth testing for sure. Even though 4 mana makes it probably borderline as we've seen with other cards before, it has 6 abilities relevant to our deck. While it may not end up in the mainboard I can see it replacing Thrun, the Last Trollin some sideboards.
Yorvo, Lord of Garenbrig this card is a serious contender for Steel Leaf Champion even though it lacks evasion it will have more toughness than our elf the turn he is going to attack the first time and will become scaringly big if he stays on the battlefield for some turns. If it would not be a legendary I could see it as 4 of in the deck maybe even replacing Steel Leaf.
Syr Faren, the Hengehammer this card is tricky to evaluate. While I see it's potential it also is a great risk. If the opponent decides to kill the creatures surrounding him or targeted by him we can easily end up with a bad 2/2. While the legendary rule keeps us from playing him as a playset (which I think is good) this card is probably the hardest to evaluate. It can end up really strong, but it can also prove to be bad. Also the 2 devotion aspect is an upside for us.
Wildborn Preserver this card in my opinion is overrated. Especially because we got so many decent 2 drops now, I don't think that this will make the cut. While the ability seems relevant at first glance, I think the goal of our deck is to curve out as efficiently as possible. And if your follow up to this guy is a 3 drop you cannot use it's ability. So you end up with a 2/2 where you could have 3 Power or hasty 2 Power instead. But the biggest downside I see is that this guy suffers from the same problem as Reverent Hunter: He dies to every common removal spell played in Modern. Therefore I can see our opponents waiting for us to spend our mana on him just to kill him with the ability on the stack, letting us waste a turn worth of mana. I can only see him played as a pseudo 3 drop replacing Steel Leaf Champion and his buddies, which doesn't seem likely. As an additional downside it lacks one devotion which I don't think is made up by his abilities.
Kenrith's Transformation this card is more than welcome in our creature removal suite. While obviously not beating out on dismember it can at least be a substitute to creature based removal spells like Savage Swipe and Nature's Way . While I don't see it in the mainboard it can be a sideboard option. 3/3s are nothing we cannot deal with and it does replace itself so we do not get 2 for 1ed. As it also deals with abilities it could be a sideboard card against problem creatures like Wurmcoil Engine, Death's Shadow, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and many other creatures we otherwise have problems dealing with.
Rosethorn Halberd while being a some kind different version of Rancor I don't see any reason to play this. If the equip cost would be lower it would have a chance. But as it stands the only advantage it has is that it still gives devotion after the equipped creature died. Additionally it would lessen our creature count and make us even more vulnerable to get 2 for 1ed. Considering that we got so many good creatures within the last sets, its probably more likely to replace our Rancors with more creatures instead of adding more versions of them. Considering all the problems mentioned above I would not play it at all.
Wildwood Tracker this guy would be a decent 1 drop one and a half years ago, before we got Pelt Collector and Hexdrinker. It is worth to mention that the only human in our deck is Experiment One therefore it should be a 2/2 most of the time. But sadly he does not grow our evolve creatures due to his strange design. As it stands now it does not make the cut in Modern. While probably being playable in Pauper. There is no reason to play this card unless you are on an ultra budget or just using it as a stopgap while acquiring the better one drops.
So this was my opinion on all cards which can somehow be considered for the deck. As I am writing this post there are 2 green cards not spoilered yet. So I dont expect them to be that much of a gamechanger. But if one of them turns out to be at least somehow playable I'll update this post.
I don't know if you like this post or not but I had a fun time writing it. So if you don't mind I'd like to do this for future sets too.
Thank you for the evaluation of the cards, do you happen to have a theory-crafted deck list for the new set? Also, what do you think of dropping the 3 drop slot entirely and going for a lower curve topping at max 2 CMC as some recent builds have shown?
I am not that much into theory crafting as I tend to test the cards one by one. So I take my build slot the cards in and then test them. If I like them I they stay If I dislike them I go back to the old version. And I'm trying to do this for every card. But as the MH cards are so expensive to acquire It took me some time to grind the Hexdrinkers on MTGO. Therefore my queue of cards to test is pretty long.
But I also strongly considered dropping the 3 drops all together. Same as I am considering dropping Rancors. With all the new toys we got it looks viable. I strongly believe that we are keeping cards like Rancor and the 3 drops just out of habit, as we are so used to them being mainstays in the deck for to long. So at least for me its a big emotional hurdle to pass before I remove them. But there is a high chance that we might be better of without 3 drops and Rancor.
I am not that much into theory crafting as I tend to test the cards one by one. So I take my build slot the cards in and then test them. If I like them I they stay If I dislike them I go back to the old version. And I'm trying to do this for every card. But as the MH cards are so expensive to acquire It took me some time to grind the Hexdrinkers on MTGO. Therefore my queue of cards to test is pretty long.
But I also strongly considered dropping the 3 drops all together. Same as I am considering dropping Rancors. With all the new toys we got it looks viable. I strongly believe that we are keeping cards like Rancor and the 3 drops just out of habit, as we are so used to them being mainstays in the deck for to long. So at least for me its a big emotional hurdle to pass before I remove them. But there is a high chance that we might be better of without 3 drops and Rancor.
3 drops I agree but without Rancor you have to make sure you are still fast enough in game 1.
About Sir F: getting his running mate killed is not the extent of our concerns. Since you have to pump him before attacking to get the bonus they can just kill him beforehand and you get nothing. So he very much needs to be protected at all times.
Additionally, regarding Sir Faren, the Hengehammer, using him might require keeping Rancor in the list as it is the safest way to pump his power. It's a continual bonus that will apply to two creatures. Which means you might keep going with the 3-drop list. While the alternative 2-drop top-end list wouldn't really use him because of the compound changes to other cards.
I've also been wondering, whether the latter list couldn't drop a land or two below 20 given the less need for 3 lands. Which itself would open more space for more 1 drops? Maybe?
It is looking increasingly likely that Stompy will have two definitive lists to tinker with depending on which style of beatdown you'd want to go with. Low-curve and Aspect finisher or slightly less low curve and punch through.
even if not pumped by anything. Syr Faren will still give free +2/+2 bonus to someone when he attacks.. although he would die from a lot of things if we make him attack as a 2/2. Still excited to test out the card. I will be playing 2-of, as this guy is bad in multiples.
historically i would agree about dropping rancor, for a long time it has been only a 2 of, but with the meta shift to fair creatures (most of which tend to be fairly small) rancor is becoming more important as evasion and between narnam, hexdrinker, and now syr faren and Yorvo i do think that 3 might not be such a bad direction. although is dose depend on how big burn ends up being
i also agree that syr faren is a 2 of, as he is legendary but also opponents need to remove him if he hits which may make him a 3 of in future depending on meta, as a not unreasonable curve with him in had can be
turn 1 a one drop,
turn 2 syr
turn 3 savage swipe on syr (with protection held up) and the add a rancor to and attack for huge amounts of damage (12 after removing a blocker with mana left for protection and if that protection is defence and you use in response to a push at at beginning of combat with the pump on the stack, its potencaly 16 damage swing which is normally ggs in modern if you on the play.
historically i would agree about dropping rancor, for a long time it has been only a 2 of, but with the meta shift to fair creatures (most of which tend to be fairly small) rancor is becoming more important as evasion and between narnam, hexdrinker, and now syr faren and Yorvo i do think that 3 might not be such a bad direction. although is dose depend on how big burn ends up being
i also agree that syr faren is a 2 of, as he is legendary but also opponents need to remove him if he hits which may make him a 3 of in future depending on meta, as a not unreasonable curve with him in had can be
turn 1 a one drop,
turn 2 syr
turn 3 savage swipe on syr (with protection held up) and the add a rancor to and attack for huge amounts of damage (12 after removing a blocker with mana left for protection and if that protection is defence and you use in response to a push at at beginning of combat with the pump on the stack, its potencaly 16 damage swing which is normally ggs in modern if you on the play.
That's an interesting view. As my thoughts to drop Rancor are also based on the rising amount of fair decks. What I was thinking is, that with a rising amount of fair decks and slower gameplay the amount of removal is also rising. Therefore in my opinion we should be better of dropping them as they offer 2 for 1 options to our opponents and replace the free noncreature slots with either more protection or more removal for opposing creatures. I don't see that much of a problem in fair creatures. These matches often and up in a weird Mexican standoff were we are able to win with a huge aspect.
My thoughts on the discussion are this, Rancor is actually a very useful card to have main since many of our creatures don't have penetration aids like trample or flying natively. Only steel leaf and avatar have any kind of penetration aid and having rancor added to some of our early creatures with a not insignificant amount of power plus the trample ability so that if/when an opponent does start to block you aren't loosing back end damage. Yes there is the 2 for 1 aspect but then there is always going to be a removal argument as well. Additionally if they do destroy a creature with rancor on it before you at the very least are getting a rancor back for another creature.
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I'm not sold on the 3 drop.
Questing Beast still seems absurdly powerful.
Okina, Temple To The Grandfathers should be taken into account with all these new legendary creatures, as well.
The more I think about Stonecoil Serpent, the more I want to play it in this deck.
Don't sleep on Oakhame Adversary in the SB, either.
i don't think we are quite at the stage of needing granddaddy's temple as we don't quite have enough legendaries to justify it. if we get a second leg 2 drop then maybe.
i don't think the serpent is quite there either, as it doesn't do as much as any other card for its mana cost.
the adversary could be good vs jund but i feel like questing beast and discard beloth both do a better job in the matchup.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
The 2 drop seems risky. But the other thing that I see is that we are getting tightened up on our slots. A year ago we were grieving for a better one and two drop. Now we have plenty of options to choose for both.
already put two of this guy on my scg cart. Needs to be tested.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I definitely look forward to testing Syr Faren once he is available. I came up with a question though,
and I thought, you guys can surely help. Hope you don't mind me asking here
So say I play:
T1 Experiment One
T2 Syr Faren + Attack with E1
T3 I slap Rancor onto Syr Faren and attack with Faren + E1.
Opponent declares no blockers so after that I kick Vines of Vastwood onto Faren.
Will my E1 still get +8 or just +4 for the attack?
I guess it comes down to: Does "whenever this creature attacks" only consider
Faren's strength the moment I declare the attack is it "extended" to include
the +4 from Vines still?
Looking forward to your response!
Cheers
nordberg
He only gives the boost when his attack is declared, and doesn't change after that. The boost from Vines doesn't get boosted onto the Experiment One.
-Yorvo, Lord of Garenbrig
-Syr Faren, the Hengehammer
-Wildborn Preserver
which of these convince you the most?
imho
-yorvo at least 1 in main, strong sinergy with avatar of the resolute and strangleroot geist he has no evasion but can become very huge,probably i will cut 1 steel leef champion
-syr Faren can double our pump/rancor (beware removal) spells but it's a simple 2/2, need to be tested but i'm not sold yet
-wildborn is a worst mana sink than ooze (need to cast a non-human creature) but have flash that can provide insta-blockers or insta-evo and avoid removal and reach can be relevant in some matchup, i will test it but i think is not good enough ( also ooze give us graveyard hate and life gain )
So this was my opinion on all cards which can somehow be considered for the deck. As I am writing this post there are 2 green cards not spoilered yet. So I dont expect them to be that much of a gamechanger. But if one of them turns out to be at least somehow playable I'll update this post.
I don't know if you like this post or not but I had a fun time writing it. So if you don't mind I'd like to do this for future sets too.
Thank you for the evaluation of the cards, do you happen to have a theory-crafted deck list for the new set? Also, what do you think of dropping the 3 drop slot entirely and going for a lower curve topping at max 2 CMC as some recent builds have shown?
But I also strongly considered dropping the 3 drops all together. Same as I am considering dropping Rancors. With all the new toys we got it looks viable. I strongly believe that we are keeping cards like Rancor and the 3 drops just out of habit, as we are so used to them being mainstays in the deck for to long. So at least for me its a big emotional hurdle to pass before I remove them. But there is a high chance that we might be better of without 3 drops and Rancor.
3 drops I agree but without Rancor you have to make sure you are still fast enough in game 1.
About Sir F: getting his running mate killed is not the extent of our concerns. Since you have to pump him before attacking to get the bonus they can just kill him beforehand and you get nothing. So he very much needs to be protected at all times.
I've also been wondering, whether the latter list couldn't drop a land or two below 20 given the less need for 3 lands. Which itself would open more space for more 1 drops? Maybe?
It is looking increasingly likely that Stompy will have two definitive lists to tinker with depending on which style of beatdown you'd want to go with. Low-curve and Aspect finisher or slightly less low curve and punch through.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
i also agree that syr faren is a 2 of, as he is legendary but also opponents need to remove him if he hits which may make him a 3 of in future depending on meta, as a not unreasonable curve with him in had can be
turn 1 a one drop,
turn 2 syr
turn 3 savage swipe on syr (with protection held up) and the add a rancor to and attack for huge amounts of damage (12 after removing a blocker with mana left for protection and if that protection is defence and you use in response to a push at at beginning of combat with the pump on the stack, its potencaly 16 damage swing which is normally ggs in modern if you on the play.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
That's an interesting view. As my thoughts to drop Rancor are also based on the rising amount of fair decks. What I was thinking is, that with a rising amount of fair decks and slower gameplay the amount of removal is also rising. Therefore in my opinion we should be better of dropping them as they offer 2 for 1 options to our opponents and replace the free noncreature slots with either more protection or more removal for opposing creatures. I don't see that much of a problem in fair creatures. These matches often and up in a weird Mexican standoff were we are able to win with a huge aspect.