yeah wren sucks in the early game. and honestly there's not much i've found that can help. i personally feel this comes from a lack of any decent planeswalker removal in general (and not just in modern). your best bet is a turn 1 pithing needle as its the only thing that can stop your one drop dieing to wren on the draw. on the play it tends to be a little easier if your holding a significant amount of protection spells. but with jund playing decay, trophy and pulse there really is very little you can do keep your hate cards around.
if found that decent gy hate can also help shore up the matchup a little as they are unable to keep recurring lands, stops the reclaim and shrinks goyf but ahain it has to be sac to exile gy type effect (like crypt or relic) as leyline and scooze and rest in peace just dont last.
if your willing to go long with the game i've found that you can grind them out if you side all one drops except hex drinkers out game 2-3 and then only play hex dinkers as a 4 drop so you can lvl up immediately and remove all bobs with huge prejudice (strangleroot and kitchen finks are your friends in this matchup) (and you need to get at least a little lucky). but between lily and wren and the addition of other edict effects and there own hexdrinkers the matchup is almost as bad as eldrazi tron used to be. and i'm almost at the stage of just not sb for it and call the matchup a loss as it takes up so many sb slots and not doing so to side more effectively against decks when we can swing the advantage with the sb more significantly.
if its a big part of your meta the best card to use against jund are
kitchen finks
tormod's crypt
pithing needle
thrun
and mb rhonas.
and if your willing to take this risk, leyline of sanctity can make a large difference as well
ive also seen someone sb in nullhide ferox which seemed to do well but you need to go really lite of your inst and soc spells
thought I‘d turn to you for some advice! I am pretty hyped as I will be playing my first lgs modern event and decided to bring my mono Green Deck. For this one, I actually stuck pretty close to the one that @FourSkinrender posted a while back. I have been getting some sweet results, even against some pretty fast decks that my friends play. Here‘s what it looks like.
Now that a bit more serious games are coming up, I noticed that I hadn‘t ever really payed attention to one thing... Mulliganing. I just sort of went with what felt okay, without really following a rule of thumb. Like are three lands in my opening hand too much? How many one drops do I want (especially in such a low cmc deck)? Does a missing E1 always mean a mulligan? And so on and so forth.
So would you guys have and advice on that? I found an older link in this thread which said the writer had some solid tips, however it has expired since.
Looking very much forward to your feedback!
Cheers
nordberg
PS My list is lacking the SB for now as I am still shifting cards around a bit;)
The general rule for mulling is you need
2 lands 2 cretures (at least one drop) and the either a third creture or a protection spell. The other 2 cards in you opening hand are the gravy.
Good rules of thumb that I use.
Mull down to 5 cards before considering keeping a one land hand.
Same rule for having 2 creatures. As with the decks very limited board draw you mulling is your best chance a a good game.
Pump spells are nice
Protection is essential. As it will offen win games through removal.
Looking at your list I would seriously consider dropping 1 land and one rancor for more creatures
(Probably 2 scavenging oozes I would also trade 2 basic lands for some utility lands.) This should help make things a little more consistant.
This seems to be the place to get feedback on Stompy decks, so I figured I'd go ahead and post mine. I've been rocking this list for a while, and it's done a good job. I've seen lots of people talking about Hexdrinker over the past few months, and it seems like it has a home in the deck, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to cut. I've seen people cutting Steel Leafs and Pelt Collectors and such, but I'm stuck on what to do for my list. Also, I'm thinking of putting Pithing Needles in the SB to deal with W6, which is otherwise a big problem. Here's my list:
Right now, I'm thinking of cutting the Pelts for the Hexdrinker and cutting a forest and Rhonas for the other two E-Ones, and cutting the extra Scooze and Bow for two Needles in the SB (also cutting two forests for any of the new G Horizon lands, because card draw is sweet). I'm also not sold on E-One being better than Pelts, because E-Ones may be a bit more resilient, but Pelts stomp harder faster and are a much better topdeck later on (not saying they're great, but better than an E-One). I also don't know if I need the three Relics as much with graveyard decks getting hit as hard as they were, but I could use a second opinion on that. I'd appreciate any feedback on my deck and my thoughts on how I should change it up. Thanks.
Your build looks pretty classic. I'm a big fan of hexdrinkers and I would recommend a payset. I would cut down to 3-4 evolving one drops. With the addion of hexdrinker and not running narnams pelt is slightly better. But it's down to prefrance.
I would drop Rhona's and steelleaf as they are a little slow and suck when you get stuck on lands. Rhona's may be worth bring back in of deathshadow decks become the dominant deck.
Barkhide troll is another solid cards that our new filler. So any left over slots tend to go to him.
I feel like you need at least a little removal (2 dismembers or savage swipes, should do it, with another dismember in the SB. )
The cards I would drop for this are 1-2 rancors.
On the SB with 3 scoozes and 4 militants I wouldnt bother running more that 1 relic. 8 bits of gy hate are enough. Especially with milatanat stoping loam and con kills from dreadge.
With the rise of sfm Collector ouhpe is going to become more and more relevent. So upping his number may be worth doing. I would also consider adding another bit of art/enc hate in rec sage to help take out chalices on 1-2 or ensuring bridges (that will be making a comeback now the format is slowing down and becoming more creature based.)
I would also drop bow as it doesn't really do enough in alot of matchups where you want it, and yes I would add 2-3 pitching needles to the sb. But be wear that jund can easily deal with them with abrupt decay, kcommand and trophy. So hex proof pump ins general better.
Thanks for the feedback. After hearing what you said, I'm thinking the Bow and two Relics out of the SB for one more Ouphe and two Pithing Needle? As for the mainboard, it'll be sad to cut the Steel Leaf because of that three devotion and big damage, but them being just a bit too slow is a fact, and swapping the playset for a set of Hexdrinkers seems to be the right choice. I'm then cutting either the two E-Ones for two Barkhides or going up to four E-Ones and cutting the Pelt Collectors for the Barkhides. I'm gonna hold onto Rhonas for the time being, because some decks have a really tough time dealing with it and it's a good late game mana sink if I'm topdecking.
I do like the idea of putting something in the SB to blow up artifacts in addition to the Ouphes, but I'm not too fond of Rec Sage. I'm thinking either two Manglehorns or two Force of Vigors, but I don't know what else I'd take out for them. If I add two of them, I'd feel fine sticking with only two Ouphes instead of three, but that still leaves me with one cut to make, and I don't know what that would be. Any thoughts on that? Maybe one of the Finks? Three Spheres seem important, because otherwise Tron gets to do Tron things easier. Or should I still go up to three Ouphes even with the extra two pieces of artifact hate?
As Stoneforge Mystic and Soulherder decks are getting into the meta, I'd suggest not to play more than 4 evolve creatures and to run 2x Torpor Orb in the side, which is also good against humans and Snapcaster Mage decks.
What's everyone's SB split for battling artifacts? I always want to be best-prepared against Ensnaring Bridge and there are a lot of options to analyze...
Oxidize - One mana, kills Ensnaring Bridge through Welding Jar. I've kept 4 of these almost always, but may want to switch. Efficiently costed removal against critical mass artifact decks like Hardened Scales and Affinity, as well.
Force Of Vigor - Sometimes the best, sometimes too card-intensive. I like this as a 1-of, because sometimes you just cast it EOT and win. Also great against Auras which is a terrible match. Their Ensnaring Bridge can be more easily protected from this. I'll usually board in 1 copy against burn since they sometimes board in Ensnaring Bridge and it's also a painless answer to Eidolon Of The Great Revel.
If Wrenn And Six pushes X/1 creatures too far out of favor, Dryad Militant may leave the deck. If that happens it may finally be time for Call Of The Herd to shine, a card I've wanted to cast in this deck for quite some time.
If Wrenn And Six pushes X/1 creatures too far out of favor, Dryad Militant may leave the deck. If that happens it may finally be time for Call Of The Herd to shine, a card I've wanted to cast in this deck for quite some time.
I love Call, but call just isn't a good fit in this deck. Also why does your deck have pendelhaven? You only have experiment 1 that it can touch which is counter intuitive to actually playing another creature to evolve E1. All the rest of your creatures start at 2/1 which pendel cant touch since it requires 1/1's.
just seen it. normally id be "no we would never run 4 mana creatures" but this may have thrun level relevance against jund and tron. as being able to both shash face, and take out a planeswalker or take out a big threat and the haste really make this playable as it provides immediate impact. i will say sb only, max 2, and you need a 21 land +(and with minimal fetchlands) deck to run as otherwise you'll never get tro cast it.
that being said i think there are 2 more cards that may well be solid additions to the deck
first Lovestruck Beast this card is solid every step of the way, it seems at its strongest in a 5 + evolve creature deck as it make your topdecked eones relevant, while pulling double duty and sudoi card advantage with rhonas sized but. it would require a build around but i could see this being another solid direction for some budget variants
secondly this guy Wildwood Tracker
this slots straight into low to the ground budget lists that cannot afford hexdrinks. change the eones for pelts and boom you have no humans in a extremely aggressive deck seems like better option than kessig prowler to me.
honestly this sets power level feel really pushed so i expect some more goodies in the next week, maybe even some mb able stuff
Looking back at this deck now that the bannings have taken place and the metagame has shifted to be a little bit slower. YouTube dropped this video in my recommendations. The deck is based on the previous meta and looks sub optimal in a few ways, (Noble Hierarch?), but having watched the matches, one change seemed worth trying out and testing.
There are other changes that I see the standard Stompy deck making that might mean this change wont work so well, like dropping Steel Leaf Champion in favor of lowering the average casting cost of the deck. Not running Barkhide Troll as it was recording before M20 releasing. Running 6 Canopy lands, which seems was a short lived fad if this thread is any indication.
But I'm curious if Aspect of Hydra replacing Rancor is a viable strategy, given how often Aspect can close the game and Rancor doesn't have the same large bodies it needs to help punch through.
I have had success recently running 3 rancors, a full playset of aspect and a full playset of steel leafs. With the meta shifting towards more linear or creature based strategies having the large body and sudden kill pressure is huge.
Wildborn Preserver called it new 2 drop with serious mb potential
ok sized body check,
2 relevant keywords check,
mana sink check,
+1 counter check
makes a late game eone relevant check.
to be honest this is going to see a lot of play both standard and modern probably worth picking up a playset if you can find them under $3 at any point.
Looking back at this deck now that the bannings have taken place and the metagame has shifted to be a little bit slower. YouTube dropped this video in my recommendations. The deck is based on the previous meta and looks sub optimal in a few ways, (Noble Hierarch?), but having watched the matches, one change seemed worth trying out and testing.
There are other changes that I see the standard Stompy deck making that might mean this change wont work so well, like dropping Steel Leaf Champion in favor of lowering the average casting cost of the deck. Not running Barkhide Troll as it was recording before M20 releasing. Running 6 Canopy lands, which seems was a short lived fad if this thread is any indication.
But I'm curious if Aspect of Hydra replacing Rancor is a viable strategy, given how often Aspect can close the game and Rancor doesn't have the same large bodies it needs to help punch through.
honestly there are alot of way to build the deck but some basic rules are
aspect is good if you run steel leaf, as it can easily can pump for more than 4 with a turn 3 steel leaf. but vines is better if your running a lower curve
rancor is good with hexdrinker and troll as the native protection of both means you less likely to get 2-1ed where as it wasn't as good before these cards due to so much mb removal in modern. also in a hexdrinker heavy build rancor can target hexdrinker which is more that any of the other pump spells can say.
nobles are ok in builds with higher curves and where going tall is more important that going wide. they are bad in the more zoo like stompy that has become more popular recently.
canopy lands are great 6 is perhaps a little high 5 i could see as workable in a build without fetchlands, in decks with fetchlands (for narnams) then 3 is the most you what to run.
Pendelhaven has a near-zero opportunity cost, but can randomly be relevant. Drawing a late Experiment One against an opposing Wrenn And Six etc. It's fine against decks full of Lava Dart and Gut Shot as well. More 1/1 creatures justifies more copies. I was playing 2 when I ran a single Pelt Collector in addition. Turn 1 Experiment One into Turn 2 Pendelhaven activation then Rancor is a fine attack.
I'm staying almost mono-basics for the time. Stranding opponents with Field Of Ruin rather than the basic color fixing they want has been borderline free Stone Rain levels of powerful.
The new beast seems sweet! I think I'm going to want 2 SB, maybe 1 MD (if I stay on 22 land, which is the current plan.)
Haste is huge, it always trades up, it still pressures life totals while clearing Planeswalkers. It is at it's best against the Path To Exile decks and Assassin's Trophy decks so 4 CMC is more realistic.
Wildborn Preserver called it new 2 drop with serious mb potential
ok sized body check,
2 relevant keywords check,
mana sink check,
+1 counter check
makes a late game eone relevant check.
to be honest this is going to see a lot of play both standard and modern probably worth picking up a playset if you can find them under $3 at any point.
Experiment One is a human so it doesn't trigger the Preserver.
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if found that decent gy hate can also help shore up the matchup a little as they are unable to keep recurring lands, stops the reclaim and shrinks goyf but ahain it has to be sac to exile gy type effect (like crypt or relic) as leyline and scooze and rest in peace just dont last.
if your willing to go long with the game i've found that you can grind them out if you side all one drops except hex drinkers out game 2-3 and then only play hex dinkers as a 4 drop so you can lvl up immediately and remove all bobs with huge prejudice (strangleroot and kitchen finks are your friends in this matchup) (and you need to get at least a little lucky). but between lily and wren and the addition of other edict effects and there own hexdrinkers the matchup is almost as bad as eldrazi tron used to be. and i'm almost at the stage of just not sb for it and call the matchup a loss as it takes up so many sb slots and not doing so to side more effectively against decks when we can swing the advantage with the sb more significantly.
if its a big part of your meta the best card to use against jund are
kitchen finks
tormod's crypt
pithing needle
thrun
and mb rhonas.
and if your willing to take this risk, leyline of sanctity can make a large difference as well
ive also seen someone sb in nullhide ferox which seemed to do well but you need to go really lite of your inst and soc spells
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
thought I‘d turn to you for some advice! I am pretty hyped as I will be playing my first lgs modern event and decided to bring my mono Green Deck. For this one, I actually stuck pretty close to the one that @FourSkinrender posted a while back. I have been getting some sweet results, even against some pretty fast decks that my friends play. Here‘s what it looks like.
4 Experiment One
4 Hexdrinker
4 Dryad Militant
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Barkhide Troll
2 Blossoming Defense
4 Vines of Vastwood
Sorceries (4)
4 Savage Swipe
Enchantments (4)
4 Rancor
2 Treetop Village
20 Forest
Now that a bit more serious games are coming up, I noticed that I hadn‘t ever really payed attention to one thing... Mulliganing. I just sort of went with what felt okay, without really following a rule of thumb. Like are three lands in my opening hand too much? How many one drops do I want (especially in such a low cmc deck)? Does a missing E1 always mean a mulligan? And so on and so forth.
So would you guys have and advice on that? I found an older link in this thread which said the writer had some solid tips, however it has expired since.
Looking very much forward to your feedback!
Cheers
nordberg
PS My list is lacking the SB for now as I am still shifting cards around a bit;)
2 lands 2 cretures (at least one drop) and the either a third creture or a protection spell. The other 2 cards in you opening hand are the gravy.
Good rules of thumb that I use.
Mull down to 5 cards before considering keeping a one land hand.
Same rule for having 2 creatures. As with the decks very limited board draw you mulling is your best chance a a good game.
Pump spells are nice
Protection is essential. As it will offen win games through removal.
Looking at your list I would seriously consider dropping 1 land and one rancor for more creatures
(Probably 2 scavenging oozes I would also trade 2 basic lands for some utility lands.) This should help make things a little more consistant.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Experiment One
4 Pelt Collector
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Aspect of Hydra
2 Blossoming Defense
4 Vines of Vastwood
Land
19 Forest
2 Treetop Village
Enchantment
4 Rancor
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Collector Ouphe
3 Damping Sphere
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
Right now, I'm thinking of cutting the Pelts for the Hexdrinker and cutting a forest and Rhonas for the other two E-Ones, and cutting the extra Scooze and Bow for two Needles in the SB (also cutting two forests for any of the new G Horizon lands, because card draw is sweet). I'm also not sold on E-One being better than Pelts, because E-Ones may be a bit more resilient, but Pelts stomp harder faster and are a much better topdeck later on (not saying they're great, but better than an E-One). I also don't know if I need the three Relics as much with graveyard decks getting hit as hard as they were, but I could use a second opinion on that. I'd appreciate any feedback on my deck and my thoughts on how I should change it up. Thanks.
I would drop Rhona's and steelleaf as they are a little slow and suck when you get stuck on lands. Rhona's may be worth bring back in of deathshadow decks become the dominant deck.
Barkhide troll is another solid cards that our new filler. So any left over slots tend to go to him.
I feel like you need at least a little removal (2 dismembers or savage swipes, should do it, with another dismember in the SB. )
The cards I would drop for this are 1-2 rancors.
On the SB with 3 scoozes and 4 militants I wouldnt bother running more that 1 relic. 8 bits of gy hate are enough. Especially with milatanat stoping loam and con kills from dreadge.
With the rise of sfm Collector ouhpe is going to become more and more relevent. So upping his number may be worth doing. I would also consider adding another bit of art/enc hate in rec sage to help take out chalices on 1-2 or ensuring bridges (that will be making a comeback now the format is slowing down and becoming more creature based.)
I would also drop bow as it doesn't really do enough in alot of matchups where you want it, and yes I would add 2-3 pitching needles to the sb. But be wear that jund can easily deal with them with abrupt decay, kcommand and trophy. So hex proof pump ins general better.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
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Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I do like the idea of putting something in the SB to blow up artifacts in addition to the Ouphes, but I'm not too fond of Rec Sage. I'm thinking either two Manglehorns or two Force of Vigors, but I don't know what else I'd take out for them. If I add two of them, I'd feel fine sticking with only two Ouphes instead of three, but that still leaves me with one cut to make, and I don't know what that would be. Any thoughts on that? Maybe one of the Finks? Three Spheres seem important, because otherwise Tron gets to do Tron things easier. Or should I still go up to three Ouphes even with the extra two pieces of artifact hate?
Oxidize - One mana, kills Ensnaring Bridge through Welding Jar. I've kept 4 of these almost always, but may want to switch. Efficiently costed removal against critical mass artifact decks like Hardened Scales and Affinity, as well.
Unravel The Aether / Deglamer - Gets around Welding Jar and Academy Ruins, as well as being the best out to a Wurmcoil Engine. Excess enchantment removal is a bonus.
Force Of Vigor - Sometimes the best, sometimes too card-intensive. I like this as a 1-of, because sometimes you just cast it EOT and win. Also great against Auras which is a terrible match. Their Ensnaring Bridge can be more easily protected from this. I'll usually board in 1 copy against burn since they sometimes board in Ensnaring Bridge and it's also a painless answer to Eidolon Of The Great Revel.
Krosan Grip - Gets through any protection, including Spellskite. Great against a Batterskull, as well. Mana-intensive.
Collector Ouphe - This card is insane in a lot of match-ups but doesn't deal with Ensnaring Bridge. Can't find room for any, but would like to.
Current post-banning with zero post-banning matches played:
4 Barkhide Troll
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Hexdrinker
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
4 Savage Swipe
4 Vines Of Vastwood
19 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
2 Treetop Village
1 Dismember
1 Force Of Vigor
4 Oxidize
2 Relic Of Progenitus
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Veil Of Summer
If Wrenn And Six pushes X/1 creatures too far out of favor, Dryad Militant may leave the deck. If that happens it may finally be time for Call Of The Herd to shine, a card I've wanted to cast in this deck for quite some time.
Also, what would my ideal sideboard be for my meta? Here are the decks I've seen so far
Burn
Spirits
Infect
Mill
Jund
Tron
Dredge
Azorius Control
Skred Red
Amulet Titan
Elves
Soul Sisters
WBTokensWB
that being said i think there are 2 more cards that may well be solid additions to the deck
first Lovestruck Beast this card is solid every step of the way, it seems at its strongest in a 5 + evolve creature deck as it make your topdecked eones relevant, while pulling double duty and sudoi card advantage with rhonas sized but. it would require a build around but i could see this being another solid direction for some budget variants
secondly this guy Wildwood Tracker
this slots straight into low to the ground budget lists that cannot afford hexdrinks. change the eones for pelts and boom you have no humans in a extremely aggressive deck seems like better option than kessig prowler to me.
honestly this sets power level feel really pushed so i expect some more goodies in the next week, maybe even some mb able stuff
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
Instead of choosing between Aspect of Hydra and Blossoming Defense as the flex slot, it drops Rancor completely and runs a full compliment of Aspects and still has room for Blossoming Defense as Vines 5 through 6.
There are other changes that I see the standard Stompy deck making that might mean this change wont work so well, like dropping Steel Leaf Champion in favor of lowering the average casting cost of the deck. Not running Barkhide Troll as it was recording before M20 releasing. Running 6 Canopy lands, which seems was a short lived fad if this thread is any indication.
But I'm curious if Aspect of Hydra replacing Rancor is a viable strategy, given how often Aspect can close the game and Rancor doesn't have the same large bodies it needs to help punch through.
ok sized body check,
2 relevant keywords check,
mana sink check,
+1 counter check
makes a late game eone relevant check.
to be honest this is going to see a lot of play both standard and modern probably worth picking up a playset if you can find them under $3 at any point.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
honestly there are alot of way to build the deck but some basic rules are
aspect is good if you run steel leaf, as it can easily can pump for more than 4 with a turn 3 steel leaf. but vines is better if your running a lower curve
rancor is good with hexdrinker and troll as the native protection of both means you less likely to get 2-1ed where as it wasn't as good before these cards due to so much mb removal in modern. also in a hexdrinker heavy build rancor can target hexdrinker which is more that any of the other pump spells can say.
nobles are ok in builds with higher curves and where going tall is more important that going wide. they are bad in the more zoo like stompy that has become more popular recently.
canopy lands are great 6 is perhaps a little high 5 i could see as workable in a build without fetchlands, in decks with fetchlands (for narnams) then 3 is the most you what to run.
Competitive Decks
Devotion to the Lash B ----
Monkey Conservation WUGR ---- Dragon WorshipR
haste + plenty other semi-useful abilities + decent 4/4 stats. Only for the 21 and 22 land builds though.. and not more than one or two in the main.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I'm staying almost mono-basics for the time. Stranding opponents with Field Of Ruin rather than the basic color fixing they want has been borderline free Stone Rain levels of powerful.
The new beast seems sweet! I think I'm going to want 2 SB, maybe 1 MD (if I stay on 22 land, which is the current plan.)
Haste is huge, it always trades up, it still pressures life totals while clearing Planeswalkers. It is at it's best against the Path To Exile decks and Assassin's Trophy decks so 4 CMC is more realistic.
Wildborn Preserver seems more like Avatar Of The Resolute 5-8. Pretty medium. Experiment One does not trigger it.
I've been pining for a card like Wicked Wolf for a long time, a green Flametongue Kavu analog. This doesn't quite cut it for us, I don't think.
Really happy to see Green so pushed in the last couple sets. We were getting 0-1 playables per set for so long.
Experiment One is a human so it doesn't trigger the Preserver.